Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Any suggestions for type, make, model & suppliers of kit?


[1] http://reading-skeptics.org.uk /shameless-plug

--
John Stumbles

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.


Sorry but £100 won't even buy one decent radio mike.

Mike

John Stumbles wrote:
Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Any suggestions for type, make, model & suppliers of kit?


Speak to your local Maplin store about their Prosound range, but you're
going to be over your budget for two usable radio mics even without a PA
system.

Add three hundred or so, and you'll get a very usable, portable system
from either Maplin or one of the music instrument sheds.

The small system I use for similar work has two radio mics that cost
about a hundred each, a small mixer, which cost fifty quid or so, and a
pair of Wharfedale Active Diamond powered speakers which cost about a
hundred quid each. Add fifty quid or so for cables, and you're about
there. The speakers are small enough to sit on shelves or wall brackets,
but I use stands for mobile work.

You *could* try going to a local car boot sale or market and buying some
cheap radio mics, but they will be (a) illegal, and (b) low quality.
Then use a small, cheap mixer and a second hand 50 Watt per channel or
so stereo amp, and a few speakers dotted round in boxes. That would just
get within your budget, but you'd then decide to go out and buy some
real gear when you heard the results. And multiple speakers dotted round
the room will need delays in the feed to the back ones, or the sound
there will be 'orrible.

Good sound isn't cheap when you need volume, and you need to allow at
least a watt of RMS power per person as a starting point.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:02:23 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

You *could* try going to a local car boot sale or market and buying some
cheap radio mics, but they will be (a) illegal, and (b) low quality.
Then use a small, cheap mixer and a second hand 50 Watt per channel or
so stereo amp, and a few speakers dotted round in boxes. That would just
get within your budget, but you'd then decide to go out and buy some
real gear when you heard the results. And multiple speakers dotted round
the room will need delays in the feed to the back ones, or the sound
there will be 'orrible.


Good sound isn't cheap when you need volume, and you need to allow at
least a watt of RMS power per person as a starting point.

Don't think Mr Stumbles needs "volume" just a bit of reinforcement,
though we don't know what "(where there's also a certain amount of
noise intruding from the rest of the pub)" actually means. Is that a
quiet lounge bar, a racus public or a six piece heavy metal band
going flat out?

I agree that £100 is not suffcient budget for two radio mics,
mixer/amp, speakers and wiring. Looking in the lates CPC flyers I see
all manner of cheapish kit, £50 for mixer/amp, speakers at £15, etc
but what this stuff actually sounds like is another matter. A trip to
Maplin where you can hopefully audition the stuff is not a bad idea.
Spend the money on the radio mics (in Ch70 "license free") and
speakers, these days virtually any mixer/amp of suitable power will
sound fine.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:02:23 +0100, John Williamson wrote:
Good sound isn't cheap when you need volume, and you need to allow at
least a watt of RMS power per person as a starting point.

Don't think Mr Stumbles needs "volume" just a bit of reinforcement,
though we don't know what "(where there's also a certain amount of
noise intruding from the rest of the pub)" actually means. Is that a
quiet lounge bar, a racus public or a six piece heavy metal band
going flat out?

I meant enough volume to overcome the general noise made by a large
number of people coughing and fidgeting, with enough reserve to overcome
a public bar in full shout next door if needed, but not necessarily
enough to blow their ears off. 2 x 50 watt RMS channels seems a good,
cheap starting point for a decent size room full of people. Though, to
get that off the Maplin gear, it'll be saying 250 Watts on the box.

If you want dancing volume, then we both know that's a different kettle
of fish. I've had a fifty watt amp completely drowned out by a couple of
dozen excited kids before now.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Apr 4, 9:40*am, John Stumbles wrote:
Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and *electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Any suggestions for type, make, model & suppliers of kit?

[1]http://reading-skeptics.org.uk/shameless-plug


£100 isn't much, as has been said. If that's really your budget limit,
I'd get chucked out domestic speakers and amps for nothing, then you
can spend the money on the mic or mics. If one of the mics is wired,
so much the better, you've got more budget for a decent wireless one.


NT

In article ,
John Stumbles wrote:
For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

You might just about get 1 cheap radio mic for that. The ones I use are
more like 2000 quid each.

Lots of small speakers will give much better coverage than one or two
large ones for speech, but then you're into using 100 volt line or lots of
amps.

If you're going to DIY the installation and buy carefully - maybe some
secondhand - you might get away with about 1000 quid.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:47:14 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You might just about get 1 cheap radio mic for that. The ones I use are
more like 2000 quid each.

Or more... I was going to suggest the Sennheiser G3 range but even
those come it at around £500/channel. How much are the G2's? CPC have
Audio Technica UHF diversity for £169 + VAT. But one assumes the pub
is VAT registered so can get that back.

Lots of small speakers will give much better coverage than one or two
large ones for speech, but then you're into using 100 volt line or lots
of amps.

Yes several well placed smaller speakers at lower level much better
than just one or two blasting out from the front. With devious
series/parallel wiring you don't have to go to 100v line. Most amps
these days will drive 4 ohms without trouble but with reduced power
capabilty. 4 ohms is two 8 ohm speakers in parallel, a stereo amp
gives four speakers... Should be enough for the average pub lounge
bar.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Apr 4, 11:10*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:47:14 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
You might just about get 1 cheap radio mic for that. The ones I use are
more like 2000 quid each.

Or more... I was going to suggest the Sennheiser G3 range but even
those come it at around £500/channel. How much are the G2's? CPC have
Audio Technica UHF diversity for £169 + VAT. But one assumes the pub
is VAT registered so can get that back.

Lots of small speakers will give much better coverage than one or two
large ones for speech, but then you're into using 100 volt line or lots
of amps.

Yes several well placed smaller speakers at lower level much better
than just one or two blasting out from the front. With devious
series/parallel wiring you don't have to go to 100v line. Most amps
these days will drive 4 ohms without trouble but with reduced power
capabilty. 4 ohms is two 8 ohm speakers in parallel, a stereo amp
gives four speakers... Should be enough for the average pub lounge
bar.

If you go with 2 stereo amps off freecycle, you get a few advantages
over one:
- if part of the system fails, the system continues working
- if part fails, you're not under severe time pressure to get a
replacement, and can ask on freecycle etc
- you get twice the max power output availability
- you get full control over the volume of each speaker


NT

In article
,
Tabby wrote:
If you go with 2 stereo amps off freecycle, you get a few advantages
over one:

I was on the lookout on FreeCycle for a half decent stereo for a charity.
All they had was a boom box, and they used music etc for
meditation/relaxation. Got a pair of speakers (KEF) quite quickly, donated
a CD player myself, but had to wait 6 months for an amp. Eventually got a
broken Cyrus 1 which I repaired.

Loads of cheap music centres and TVs. Record decks and MiniDiscs. Good
amps, not.

--
*We waste time, so you don't have to *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Apr 4, 6:00*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
* *Tabby wrote:

If you go with 2 stereo amps off freecycle, you get a few advantages
over one:

I was on the lookout on FreeCycle for a half decent stereo for a charity.
All they had was a boom box, and they used music etc for
meditation/relaxation. Got a pair of speakers (KEF) quite quickly, donated
a CD player myself, but had to wait 6 months for an amp. Eventually got a
broken Cyrus 1 which I repaired.

Loads of cheap music centres and TVs. Record decks and MiniDiscs. Good
amps, not.

depends where you are, it varies a lot. There are of course other ways
to get free kit too, like put a request in the paper, or ask the
regular attendees if they've got someting gathering dust. You sure
don't need audiophile kit for speech.


NT

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:47:14 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You might just about get 1 cheap radio mic for that. The ones I use are
more like 2000 quid each.

I know but you're in broadcast Dave!

What about something like this: http://www.geminidj.com/vhf-2001

Is it
(a) going to fall apart as soon as we look at it
(b) going to sound like a British Rail platform tannoy
(c) ...er, that's it

(Why don't they do them with one lavalier and one stick mic?!)

--
John Stumbles

Sent from my ZX81

John Stumbles wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:47:14 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You might just about get 1 cheap radio mic for that. The ones I use are
more like 2000 quid each.

I know but you're in broadcast Dave!

What about something like this: http://www.geminidj.com/vhf-2001

Listed at £279.00 at the only dealer I could find it in stock at.

Is it
(a) going to fall apart as soon as we look at it
(b) going to sound like a British Rail platform tannoy
(c) ...er, that's it

(a) Depends *how* you look at it.
(b) Can't tell without listening.

(Why don't they do them with one lavalier and one stick mic?!)

This Maplin one does.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/twin-channel...-system-225040

Listed on special offer at £99.99 this week.

The more expensive one:-

http://www.maplin.co.uk/twin-uhf-pro...-system-225036

Has two hand held microphones with it.

This one:-
http://www.maplin.co.uk/uhf-professi...c-system-44292

Comes with a headworn microphone and a lavalier, and is fairly good
sounding for the price. The headset mic is uncomfortable, though

For speakers:-

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ion-center-s...-system-513555

I don't know what they sound like. You may want two pairs, and run them
turned down for better quality.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 20:03:37 +0100, John Williamson wrote:


http://www.maplin.co.uk/twin-channel...-system-225040

Listed on special offer at £99.99 this week.

Looks OK. Says it does channel 70 which, AIUI, remains legal for
unlicensed use come 2012 - is that right?

--
John Stumbles

An atheist is a person with no invisible means of support

On 5 Apr 2011 21:28:11 GMT, John Stumbles wrote:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/twin-channel...-system-225040

Listed on special offer at £99.99 this week.

Looks OK. Says it does channel 70 which, AIUI, remains legal for
unlicensed use come 2012 - is that right?

Yes, Ch70(*) is "licence free" for type approved equipment. Fixed
power output of 10mW for handhelds, 50mW for body packs, no tweaks or
adjustments to Tx aerials (you can use high gain Rx aerials though)
and 200kHz bandwidth.

(*) Not the whole channel mind, just 863.000 MHz to 865.000 MHz.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Is there a music system already there so you can save on speakers and amps?

If so you might get a useable system from maplin but ~£200 would be better
for the mics.


If you need speakers and amps you really need to look for second
hand/seconds or you need another £200+.

I think I still have an old rotel (iirc) stereo receiver (about 50W RMS
IIRC) in the attic that you can have, but its a bit heavy to post and I
haven't powered it up for 15 years.

On Apr 4, 9:40*am, John Stumbles wrote:
Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and *electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Any suggestions for type, make, model & suppliers of kit?

[1]http://reading-skeptics.org.uk/shameless-plug

--
John Stumbles

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure

I bought brand new an el-cheapo k&k radio mic and adastra mains/12v
powered amp with a couple of TOA speakers from ebay a couple of years
ago for just under £100. The user has to remain within 20 feet or so
of the amp but indoors that should not be a problem. It worked fine
for small horse shows. Why would you need hi-fi reproduction for what
you describe?

On Apr 4, 1:08*pm, cynic wrote:
On Apr 4, 9:40*am, John Stumbles wrote:





Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and *electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Any suggestions for type, make, model & suppliers of kit?

[1]http://reading-skeptics.org.uk/shameless-plug

--
John Stumbles

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure

I bought brand new an el-cheapo k&k radio mic and adastra mains/12v
powered amp with a couple of TOA speakers from ebay a couple of years
ago for just under £100. The user has to remain within 20 feet or so
of the amp but indoors that should not be a problem. It worked fine
for small horse shows. Why would you need hi-fi reproduction for what
you describe?-

That was my feeling -- AIUI it's only speech. But there are many
people who will disagree.

There's no problem in getting a couple of radio mikes, or a dual-
channel box, on eBay for well under £100 if you keep an eye open and
wait for a glut.

As Owain said, be aware that the UHF channels are about to change and
a lot of stuff will become illegal. But the earlier VHF channels will
remain and equipment for these is still available and prefectly
adequate.

Make sure you get a diversity receiver (2 aerials) or you'll get dead
spots (or at any rate more dead spots than with diversity). IME Murphy
guarantees that the (human) speaker will insist that the only possible
place in the room he can speak from is in one of them.

Chris

In message , John Stumbles
writes
Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with
speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling
beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor-
standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would
require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Any suggestions for type, make, model & suppliers of kit?


[1] http://reading-skeptics.org.uk /shameless-plug


Voice projection dear boy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_projection


OK, if you must ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-KrzEeh5R4

--
geoff

On 4 Apr 2011 08:40:04 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

We could do with a bit of
amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a
certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear
properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort
you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the
speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for
taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And
speakers (audio type), obviously, and electronics to connect up.


As everyone else is saying that you cannot afford "real" radio
microphone(s), may I (somewhat timidly) suggest that you might be able
to hack together a laptop with bluetooth USB dongle, cheap PC speakers
and a bluetooth headset.

CPC have this microphone thing for a PS3 - Order Code: CS20336 - don't
know if it works with anything else.

An alternative to the laptop /might/ be the Belkin Bluetooth music
receiver Order Code:CS19528

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:17:47 +0000, Huge wrote:
Pity you aren't closer.

there are others:

http://skeptic.org.uk/events/skeptics-in-the-pub


--
John Stumbles

How odd of God But not so odd as those who choose
To choose the Jews A Jewish god, yet spurn the Jews

In message , John Stumbles
writes
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:17:47 +0000, Huge wrote:
Pity you aren't closer.

there are others:

http://skeptic.org.uk/events/skeptics-in-the-pub


Useful

--
geoff