It never rains but it pours.

Court summons arrives in the post at 11:45, central heating
boiler goes bang at 17:30.

Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.

Faults to date ...

Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.

Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.

2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails
but exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant
refuse to honour under the guarantee.

Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do
because of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes, it
specifically excludes any faults that existed before the guarantee
so cancel the policy immediately.

Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.

Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says that
it is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the heat exchanger,
and that replacement will be a telescoping metal joint.

The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with Vaillant and
with theor boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

On 26/03/2011 13:10, Triffid wrote:
gareth wrote:
It never rains but it pours.

Court summons arrives in the post at 11:45, central heating
boiler goes bang at 17:30.

Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.

Faults to date ...

Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.

Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.

2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails
but exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant
refuse to honour under the guarantee.

Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do
because of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes, it
specifically excludes any faults that existed before the guarantee
so cancel the policy immediately.

Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.

Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says that
it is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the heat
exchanger, and that replacement will be a telescoping metal joint.

The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with Vaillant
and with theor boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but
Vaillant have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of the best
manufacturers.

I've always found it to be so, as have others I know who have used them.
Of course, the satisfied customers rarely bother to post threads about
how happy they are.

When we had a new boiler three years ago it was a toss-up
between a Vaillant and a Worcester Bosch. The installer recommended WB -
mainly because, he said, they had a first class produce and excellent
after-sales service.

and, looking at the trade discounts I can get on both makes, a bigger
profit for the installer.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar "cpb"@" wrote:
On 26/03/2011 13:10, Triffid wrote:
gareth wrote:
It never rains but it pours.

Court summons arrives in the post at 11:45, central heating
boiler goes bang at 17:30.

Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.

Faults to date ...

Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.

Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.

2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails
but exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant
refuse to honour under the guarantee.

Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do
because of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes,
it specifically excludes any faults that existed before the
guarantee so cancel the policy immediately.

Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.

Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says
that it is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the
heat exchanger, and that replacement will be a telescoping metal
joint. The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with
Vaillant
and with theor boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but
Vaillant have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of the
best manufacturers.

I've always found it to be so, as have others I know who have used
them. Of course, the satisfied customers rarely bother to post
threads about how happy they are.

When we had a new boiler three years ago it was a toss-up
between a Vaillant and a Worcester Bosch. The installer recommended
WB - mainly because, he said, they had a first class produce and
excellent after-sales service.

and, looking at the trade discounts I can get on both makes, a bigger
profit for the installer.

I bought my boiler via an eBay seller (brand new and in unopened box). The
seller's brother was an installer and they buy a bunch of boilers at trade
prices between them, and while the brother sells and installs some via his
business - his brother makes a bit of profit selling the remainder at
well-below normal installers price on eBay. I also saved by contacting the
seller direct and negotiating the price outside of eBay. We split the eBay
selling charge between us!

--
Triff

In article ,
gareth wrote:
I forgot - I'm also a Radio Ham, and I have to switch off the boiler
before transmitting else it shuts down with a fault code. As I'm not a
qualified gas fitter, I may not tamper with it by the usual ruses of
fitting ferrite rings and bypass capacitors everywhere. The previous 2
Servowarm boilers (20 years) had no such problems

You can work on gas fittings in your own home if you're competent to do so.
The regulations only apply to those charging for their work.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
You can work on gas fittings in your own home if you're competent to do
so.
The regulations only apply to those charging for their work.

Does this include disconnecting a gas cooker which hasn't got a bayonet
fitting and capping off the gas supply pipe?

--
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

In article ,
GEDCOM wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
You can work on gas fittings in your own home if you're competent to
do so. The regulations only apply to those charging for their work.

Does this include disconnecting a gas cooker which hasn't got a bayonet
fitting and capping off the gas supply pipe?

Yes, if you are competent. But then, most who are competent wouldn't even
bother asking as regards working in your own home.

--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:52:16 +0000, GEDCOM wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
You can work on gas fittings in your own home if you're competent to do
so.
The regulations only apply to those charging for their work.

Does this include disconnecting a gas cooker which hasn't got a bayonet
fitting and capping off the gas supply pipe?

Here's my take on it:

http://yaph.co.uk/DIY_gas/#legal_DIY





--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Never believe anyone who claims to be a liar

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:49:29 +0000, gareth wrote:

Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.

Faults to date ...

Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.

Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.

2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails but
exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant refuse to
honour under the guarantee.

Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do because
of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes, it
specifically excludes any faults that existed before the guarantee so
cancel the policy immediately.

Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.

Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says that it
is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the heat exchanger,
and that replacement will be a telescoping metal joint.

The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with Vaillant and
with theor boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

My experience of Vaillant is

- *extremely* unresponsive technical support line: I once hung on for
over 40 minutes being told how important my call was to them etc and gave
up; I later contacted general customer services who suggested I email
them! (Which actually worked - they did get back to me - but as much use
as a chocolate teapot if you've got a customer's boiler in bits in front
of you and need to talk to someone now.)

- Vaillant engaging in finger-pointing exercise over a fault: a boiler
I'd fitted for a customer was making howling noises from the flue (which
I think they're a bit prone to do) and they got a Vaillant bod out to
look at it who said the primary circuit hadn't been flushed properly,
which didn't seem a likely fault. I powerflushed the system (I'd only
just got the machine after installing the boiler) and not surprisingly it
didn't make a blind bit of difference.

My experience of Worcester-Bosch is
- generally being able to reach tech support on the phone when I need it
(can be a bit busy when everyone's got frozen condensates)
- tech support being generally clueful (can be a bit off with more
esoteric issues)
- being pretty helpful when you do have to call them out, including
attending for free a boiler that was a couple of weeks outside warranty



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my father did,
not screaming in terror like his passengers.

On Mar 26, 12:49*pm, "gareth" wrote:
It never rains but it pours.

Court summons arrives in the post at 11:45, central heating
boiler goes bang at 17:30.

Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.

Faults to date ...

Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.

Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.

2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails
but exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant
refuse to honour under the guarantee.

Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do
because of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes, it
specifically excludes any faults that existed before the guarantee
so cancel the policy immediately.

Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.

Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says that
it is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the heat exchanger,
and that replacement will be a telescoping metal joint.

The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with Vaillant and
with theor boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

Hi, sorry to hear about your problems. I have a Valliant system boiler
(not combi) that has been ok for a number of years.
Do not forget that you have a 5-10 year (or however long a boiler
should reasonably last) guarantee through the sales of goods act 1974.
Your complaint is with the supplier of your boiler (plumber, shop,
Valliant?). Do not take out extended guarantees. Write to supplier a
few times with recorded delivery to show that you have tried to
resolve the matter (do not get fobbed off with having to pay for
repairs etc.). Then if no joy, do the small claims thing (can be done
on-line, or used to be able to do this).
Good luck.

On 26/03/11 17:43, YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:52:16 +0000, GEDCOM wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
You can work on gas fittings in your own home if you're competent to do
so.
The regulations only apply to those charging for their work.

Does this include disconnecting a gas cooker which hasn't got a bayonet
fitting and capping off the gas supply pipe?

Here's my take on it:

http://yaph.co.uk/DIY_gas/#legal_DIY

and here is the Health and Safety Executive's take on it:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/change.pdf

Should DIY work be legally prohibited, e.g. by restricting the sale of
gas equipment to registered gas installers? Should retailers be legally
required to record sales of gas equipment and pass these to a central
body, perhaps CORGI? Should any central body selected for this purpose
be required to arrange the inspection of gas installation work in any
case where the record of sale suggests work will be carried out by an
unregistered installer? Should increased publicity on the dangers of DIY
gas work be given by (i) HSE campaigns, (ii) manufacturers warnings,
(iii) other means? (DD Page 50)

We understand concern about the possible risks posed by incompetent DIY
gas work, but believe at present there is insufficient hard evidence of
incidents to support the introduction of a legal ban. However, we
recognise that current statistics might not tell the full story and
recommend that further work be done more accurately to identify the
scale of the problem, i.e. by refining arrangements for reporting
incidents specifically to identify those related to DIY (see
Recommendation 9), with a view to reviewing the legal position again
(say in five years time).

In the meantime, we recommend that increased publicity should be given
to the dangers of DIY gas work (possibly funded through industry and the
Gas Safety Levy - see Recommendations 7 and 11). This should focus more
on legal requirements for competence if DIY is undertaken, and penalties
if these are not met. More encouragement should also be given to
retailers for providing €˜point of sale information, and equipment
manufacturers to include warnings with products.

"nafuk" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 12:49 pm, "gareth" wrote:
Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.
# Hi, sorry to hear about your problems. I have a Valliant system boiler
# (not combi) that has been ok for a number of years.
# Do not forget that you have a 5-10 year (or however long a boiler
# should reasonably last) guarantee through the sales of goods act 1974.
# Your complaint is with the supplier of your boiler (plumber, shop,
# Valliant?). Do not take out extended guarantees. Write to supplier a
# few times with recorded delivery to show that you have tried to
# resolve the matter (do not get fobbed off with having to pay for
# repairs etc.). Then if no joy, do the small claims thing (can be done
# on-line, or used to be able to do this).
# Good luck.

Thanks for an interesting suggestion.

Unfortunately Servowarm are no longer in business.

I have a vague idea that someone in Birmingham purchased
the rights to their business.

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
On 26/03/2011 13:10, Triffid wrote:
gareth wrote:
Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but
Vaillant have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.
I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of the best
manufacturers.
I've always found it to be so, as have others I know who have used them.
Of course, the satisfied customers rarely bother to post threads about how
happy they are.
When we had a new boiler three years ago it was a toss-up
between a Vaillant and a Worcester Bosch. The installer recommended WB -
mainly because, he said, they had a first class produce and excellent
after-sales service.
and, looking at the trade discounts I can get on both makes, a bigger
profit for the installer.

I think that perhaps you're in a different world? An installer who
is involved with brand-new systems?

On Mar 26, 1:19*pm, "gareth" wrote:
"Triffid" wrote in message

m...





gareth wrote:
It never rains but it pours.
Court summons arrives in the post at 11:45, central heating
boiler goes bang at 17:30.
Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.
Faults to date ...
Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.
Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.
2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails
but exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant
refuse to honour under the guarantee.
Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do
because of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes, it
specifically excludes any faults that existed before the guarantee
so cancel the policy immediately.
Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.
Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says that
it is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the heat
exchanger, and that replacement will be a telescoping metal joint.
The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with Vaillant
and with their boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.
Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but
Vaillant have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.
I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of the best
manufacturers. When we had a new boiler three years ago it was a toss-up
between a Vaillant and a Worcester Bosch. The installer recommended WB -
mainly because, he said, they had a first class produce and excellent
after-sales service. We took his advice and, in view of your experiences,
I'm glad we did!

I forgot - I'm also a Radio Ham, and I have to switch off the boiler before
transmitting else it shuts down with a fault code. As I'm not a qualified
gas
fitter, I may not tamper with it by the usual ruses of fitting ferrite rings
and bypass capacitors everywhere. The previous 2 Servowarm boilers
(20 years) had no such problems- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Check SWR then add some DX grease to aerial coax pl259 lol
ex 26 SD 765 26 AT 765

In article , Cod Roe wrote:
On 26/03/11 17:43, YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:52:16 +0000, GEDCOM wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
You can work on gas fittings in your own home if you're competent to do
so.
The regulations only apply to those charging for their work.

Does this include disconnecting a gas cooker which hasn't got a bayonet
fitting and capping off the gas supply pipe?

Here's my take on it:

http://yaph.co.uk/DIY_gas/#legal_DIY

and here is the Health and Safety Executive's take on it:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/change.pdf

Should DIY work be legally prohibited, e.g. by restricting the sale of
gas equipment to registered gas installers? Should retailers be legally
required to record sales of gas equipment and pass these to a central
body, perhaps CORGI? Should any central body selected for this purpose
be required to arrange the inspection of gas installation work in any
case where the record of sale suggests work will be carried out by an
unregistered installer? Should increased publicity on the dangers of DIY
gas work be given by (i) HSE campaigns, (ii) manufacturer?s warnings,
(iii) other means? (DD Page 50)

It'd be nice to see some statistics. When there are gas leaks and
explosions they quite often make the news, so probably not too hard to
track down, but did anyone record who installed/maintained the device
that leaked gas, and whether they were qualified?

I'd like to see how 'we' compare with 'them'. I mean, there are probably
a lot more of 'us' than there are of 'them' and consequently I'd expect
to find the majority of faulty/failed/fatal gas installations to be
'our' responsibility.

Obvious idiots are to be discounted from 'our' numbers, of course - but
cannot be ignored in 'their' numbers (should there be any).

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

In message , Yeti writes
On 26/03/2011 13:19, gareth wrote:
As I'm not a qualified
gas
fitter, I may not tamper with it by the usual ruses of fitting ferrite rings
and bypass capacitors everywhere.

It's only the gas fittings that you're not supposed to touch.

You can do what you like with the electrical parts.

You can't adapt them, without potential insurance implications.

The board has a CE mark which is no longer valid once you start changing
/ adding components


--
geoff

In message , gareth
writes

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

Vaillant are better than most, it's the boiler of choice for most
fitters around here

I used to recommend WB, but no longer think that their build quality is
good enough

I think that you should go out abnd buy an Ideal ICOS - you'd spend so
much time trying to get it working that you wouldn't get around to
posting such drivel here


--
geoff

In message , gareth
writes
As I'm not a qualified
gas
fitter, I may not tamper with it

Aha - not bothered checking the regulations

by the usual ruses of fitting ferrite rings
and bypass capacitors everywhere. The previous 2 Servowarm boilers
(20 years) had no such problems



--
geoff

In message
,
nafuk writes
Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

Hi, sorry to hear about your problems. I have a Valliant system boiler
(not combi) that has been ok for a number of years.
Do not forget that you have a 5-10 year (or however long a boiler
should reasonably last) guarantee


UP to 6 years IIRC

--
geoff

In message , gareth
writes
"nafuk" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 12:49 pm, "gareth" wrote:
Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.
# Hi, sorry to hear about your problems. I have a Valliant system boiler
# (not combi) that has been ok for a number of years.
# Do not forget that you have a 5-10 year (or however long a boiler
# should reasonably last) guarantee through the sales of goods act 1974.
# Your complaint is with the supplier of your boiler (plumber, shop,
# Valliant?). Do not take out extended guarantees. Write to supplier a
# few times with recorded delivery to show that you have tried to
# resolve the matter (do not get fobbed off with having to pay for
# repairs etc.). Then if no joy, do the small claims thing (can be done
# on-line, or used to be able to do this).
# Good luck.

Thanks for an interesting suggestion.

Unfortunately Servowarm are no longer in business.

Servowarm were badged glowworm boilers IIRC

they didn't actually make their own


--
geoff

On 26/03/2011 18:34, gareth wrote:
"Nightjar"cpb"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
On 26/03/2011 13:10, Triffid wrote:
gareth wrote:
Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but
Vaillant have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.
I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of the best
manufacturers.
I've always found it to be so, as have others I know who have used them.
Of course, the satisfied customers rarely bother to post threads about how
happy they are.
When we had a new boiler three years ago it was a toss-up
between a Vaillant and a Worcester Bosch. The installer recommended WB -
mainly because, he said, they had a first class produce and excellent
after-sales service.
and, looking at the trade discounts I can get on both makes, a bigger
profit for the installer.

I think that perhaps you're in a different world? An installer who
is involved with brand-new systems?

I'm not an installer of any kind, but I do get trade discounts on
plumbing and looking at what I can get on the two makes, were I an
installer, there would be a financial incentive for me to push Worcester
over Vaillant.

Colin Bignell

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
"Yeti" wrote in message
...
On 26/03/2011 13:19, gareth wrote:
As I'm not a qualified
You can
gas
fitter, I may not tamper with it by the usual ruses of fitting ferrite
rings
and bypass capacitors everywhere.
It's only the gas fittings that you're not supposed to touch.
You can do what you like with the electrical parts.
You can touch any part as longer you are "competent". "Competence" is
defined by your results.


I anticipate that should there be any form of accident following any such
tampering, even though the accident be unrelated in any way to the tampering
it would seem to the insurers that they'd have a case for refusing to pay
out.

Therefore I leave the CH to competent gasmen and electrical matters to
Part P qualified tradesmen.

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
"Yeti" wrote in message
...
On 26/03/2011 13:19, gareth wrote:
As I'm not a qualified
You can
gas
fitter, I may not tamper with it by the usual ruses of fitting ferrite
rings
and bypass capacitors everywhere.
It's only the gas fittings that you're not supposed to touch.
You can do what you like with the electrical parts.
You can touch any part as longer you are "competent". "Competence" is
defined by your results.


I anticipate that should there be any form of accident following any such
tampering, even though the accident be unrelated in any way to the
tampering
it would seem to the insurers that they'd have a case for refusing to pay
out.

Therefore I leave the CH to competent gasmen and electrical matters to
Part P qualified tradesmen.


Who do you call in to SWAAAR your twig?
--
;-)
..
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
..
http://turner-smith.co.uk

On Mar 26, 2:10*pm, "Triffid" wrote:
[snip] I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of
the best
manufacturers. When we had a new boiler three years ago it was a toss-up
between a Vaillant and a Worcester Bosch. The installer recommended WB -
mainly because, he said, they had a first class produce and excellent
after-sales service. We took his advice and, in view of your experiences,
I'm glad we did!

I've been researching for a new boiler (waiting for the warmer weather
before purchasing/ installing)
and have come to the conclusion that WB boilers look good, however, I
was interested to note that
even WB offer a choice of Stainless steel or Aluminium heat exchangers
- with copper heating tubes.
Now with 'slightly acidic' condensate', I would've thought copper and
aluminium would not be a good electro-potential combination.
--

On 28/03/2011 09:24, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Triffid" wrote in message
m...


I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of the
best manufacturers.

Vaillant and W-B are mid-range. The best are ATAG and Intergas (Atmos) .
Both are Dutch.

Avantaplus are better than Vaillant.


This from the man who previously has recommended that someone who needed
under 20kW of domestic heating should buy an industrial grade 51kW boiler.

Colin Bignell

In message , gareth
writes
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
"Yeti" wrote in message
...
On 26/03/2011 13:19, gareth wrote:
As I'm not a qualified
You can
gas
fitter, I may not tamper with it by the usual ruses of fitting ferrite
rings
and bypass capacitors everywhere.
It's only the gas fittings that you're not supposed to touch.
You can do what you like with the electrical parts.
You can touch any part as longer you are "competent". "Competence" is
defined by your results.


I anticipate that should there be any form of accident following any such
tampering, even though the accident be unrelated in any way to the tampering
it would seem to the insurers that they'd have a case for refusing to pay
out.

Therefore I leave the CH to competent gasmen

Where are you going to find one of them then ?


and electrical matters to
Part P qualified tradesmen.



--
geoff

In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"Cod Roe" wrote in message ...
On 26/03/11 17:43, YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:52:16 +0000, GEDCOM wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
You can work on gas fittings in your own home if you're competent to do
so.
The regulations only apply to those charging for their work.

Does this include disconnecting a gas cooker which hasn't got a bayonet
fitting and capping off the gas supply pipe?

Here's my take on it:

http://yaph.co.uk/DIY_gas/#legal_DIY

and here is the Health and Safety Executive's take on it:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/change.pdf

Should DIY work be legally prohibited, e.g. by restricting the sale
of gas equipment to registered gas installers? Should retailers be
legally required to record sales of gas equipment and pass these to a
central body, perhaps CORGI? Should any central body selected for
this purpose be required to arrange the inspection of gas
installation work in any case where the record of sale suggests work
will be carried out by an unregistered installer? Should increased
publicity on the dangers of DIY gas work be given by (i) HSE
campaigns, (ii) manufacturer?Ts warnings, (iii) other means? (DD Page 50)

We understand concern about the possible risks posed by incompetent
DIY gas work, but believe at present there is insufficient hard
evidence of incidents to support the introduction of a legal ban.
However, we recognise that current statistics might not tell the full
story and recommend that further work be done more accurately to
identify the scale of the problem, i.e. by refining arrangements for
reporting incidents specifically to identify those related to DIY
(see Recommendation 9), with a view to reviewing the legal position
again (say in five years time).

In the meantime, we recommend that increased publicity should be
given to the dangers of DIY gas work (possibly funded through
industry and the Gas Safety Levy - see Recommendations 7 and 11).
This should focus more on legal requirements for competence if DIY is
undertaken, and penalties if these are not met. More encouragement
should also be given to retailers for providing ?~point of sale?T
information, and equipment manufacturers to include warnings with products.

The HSE are more concerned with unregistered installers doing dangerous
work, who charge for it.

Like you, eh ?


--
geoff

In article , says...
Therefore I leave the CH to competent gasmen

Where are you going to find one of them then ?


Once again we seem to be becoming uk.get-a-little-man-in

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On 28/03/2011 13:42, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
On 28/03/2011 09:24, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Triffid" wrote in message
m...


I'm really surprised - I've always regarded Vaillant is one of the
best manufacturers.

Vaillant and W-B are mid-range. The best are ATAG and Intergas (Atmos) .
Both are Dutch.

Avantaplus are better than Vaillant.

This from the man who previously has recommended that someone who
needed under 20kW of domestic heating should buy an industrial grade
51kW boiler.

You are a known plantpot. ATAG make a 51kW "domestic" combi matching the
performance of an unvented cylinder. You have never heard of ATAG or
Intergas.

Of course I have; we went through all this when you made the suggestion
last time. As usual, you were the only person who believed what you posted.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:05:40 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , gareth

Therefore I leave the CH to competent gasmen

Where are you going to find one of them then ?

Oi!


--
John Stumbles

The rain, it rains upon the Just, and on the Unjust fella
But more upon the Just because the Unjust's got the Just's umbrella

On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:54:11 -0700, Catweazel wrote:

I've been researching for a new boiler (waiting for the warmer weather
before purchasing/ installing)
and have come to the conclusion that WB boilers look good, however, I
was interested to note that
even WB offer a choice of Stainless steel or Aluminium heat exchangers -
with copper heating tubes.

They have a 'kebab' shaped primary heat exchanger in the iJunior, iSystem
and Ri models, and a brick-like machined lump in the CDi models, but both
are aluminium - with some sort of silicon passivation to protect the
metal from corrosion.


Now with 'slightly acidic' condensate', I would've thought copper and
aluminium would not be a good electro-potential combination.

I'm not a chemist or metallurgist so I can't comment on Bosch's choice of
materials but I guess if they've invested £loadsa (and their
reputation) into the design of these things they've thought about that.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

This sig intentionally left blank

On 28/03/2011 10:55, gareth wrote:
"Doctor wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On 26/03/2011 13:19, gareth wrote:
As I'm not a qualified
You can
gas
fitter, I may not tamper with it by the usual ruses of fitting ferrite
rings
and bypass capacitors everywhere.
It's only the gas fittings that you're not supposed to touch.
You can do what you like with the electrical parts.
You can touch any part as longer you are "competent". "Competence" is
defined by your results.


I anticipate that should there be any form of accident following any such
tampering, even though the accident be unrelated in any way to the tampering
it would seem to the insurers that they'd have a case for refusing to pay
out.

Therefore I leave the CH to competent gasmen and electrical matters to
Part P qualified tradesmen.

In the latter case you will pay an awful lot to have a light fitting or
switch changed - assuming you can get a registered body electrician
interested in the job.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , John Stumbles
writes
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:05:40 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , gareth

Therefore I leave the CH to competent gasmen

Where are you going to find one of them then ?

Oi!

Oil?

He said gas ...

--
geoff

On Saturday, 26 March 2011 12:49:29 UTC, gareth wrote:
It never rains but it pours.

Court summons arrives in the post at 11:45, central heating
boiler goes bang at 17:30.

Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.

Faults to date ...

Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.

Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.

2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails
but exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant
refuse to honour under the guarantee.

Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do
because of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes, it
specifically excludes any faults that existed before the guarantee
so cancel the policy immediately.

Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.

Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says that
it is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the heat exchanger,
and that replacement will be a telescoping metal joint.

The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with Vaillant and
with theor boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.

2011 to now, one might have thought if they were this bad, they would be out
of business in 6 years or so.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 26 March 2011 12:49:29 UTC, gareth wrote:
It never rains but it pours.

Court summons arrives in the post at 11:45, central heating
boiler goes bang at 17:30.

Vaillant ecotec 831 boiler fitted less than 5 years ago.

Faults to date ...

Design fault, a rubber ring to be replaced by a graphite ring.

Design fault, a pressure sensor gives up the ghost.

2 weeks after guaranteee expires, the change-over valve fails
but exhibits water leak that has been there for months. Vaillant
refuse to honour under the guarantee.

Vaillant pressure us to take out extended warranty, which we do
because of change-over valve replaced. When the small print comes, it
specifically excludes any faults that existed before the guarantee
so cancel the policy immediately.

Thermostat fails requiring use of manual override.

Yesterday, rubber expansion joint fails. Emergency engineer says that
it is another design fault having a rubber hose next to the heat
exchanger,
and that replacement will be a telescoping metal joint.

The emergency engineer says that our experiences both with Vaillant and
with theor boilers are commonplace, and that he always recommend
Worcester boilers.

Moral : Don't buy a Vaillant boiler, not only are they crap but Vaillant
have a predatory attitude towards customers' bank balances.