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#1
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it
from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture & Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? I know the regulations don't apply to furniture made before 1950. What about stuff made after 1950? I think the effect of section 14 is that I do have to ensure it complies, even if I'm not "in the trade" and this is the only piece of furniture I ever supply to anyone. Am I right about this? (If so, I'll have to dump it!) Thanks! John |
#2
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On 27/02/2011 09:29, John Nagelson wrote:
If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? Nah. As a private one-off seller it's not relevant. Mind you, the market in old 3-piece suites is pretty non-existent IME - if you've got one dating before 1988 I'd be surprised if you'd get takers unless it's a but special. The quite reasonable suite in our kids playroom was acquired from ebay about 5 years ago - for 1p... David |
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Feb 27, 9:50*am, Lobster wrote:
On 27/02/2011 09:29, John Nagelson wrote: If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? Nah. As a private one-off seller it's not relevant. Mind you, the market in old 3-piece suites is pretty non-existent IME - if you've got one dating before 1988 I'd be surprised if you'd get takers unless it's a but special. The quite reasonable suite in our kids playroom was acquired from ebay about 5 years ago - for 1p... Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref... Cheers! John |
#4
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
John Nagelson wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:50 am, Lobster wrote: On 27/02/2011 09:29, John Nagelson wrote: If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? Nah. As a private one-off seller it's not relevant. Mind you, the market in old 3-piece suites is pretty non-existent IME - if you've got one dating before 1988 I'd be surprised if you'd get takers unless it's a but special. The quite reasonable suite in our kids playroom was acquired from ebay about 5 years ago - for 1p... Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref... Cheers! John I do know the auction house wouldn't take anything without fire certificate. And we skipped a lot during mother's house clear out. Simply unsaleable. Tragic. |
#5
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On 27/02/2011 13:36, Tabby wrote:
On Feb 27, 12:03 pm, wrote: "The Natural wrote in ... John Nagelson wrote: On Feb 27, 9:50 am, wrote: On 27/02/2011 09:29, John Nagelson wrote: If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? Nah. As a private one-off seller it's not relevant. Mind you, the market in old 3-piece suites is pretty non-existent IME - if you've got one dating before 1988 I'd be surprised if you'd get takers unless it's a but special. The quite reasonable suite in our kids playroom was acquired from ebay about 5 years ago - for 1p... Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref... Cheers! John I do know the auction house wouldn't take anything without fire certificate. And we skipped a lot during mother's house clear out. Simply unsaleable. Tragic. Yes, but they were made unsaleable by the "Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988" which IIRC required that the furniture still had its fireproof "label" attached. Who the **** uses furniture with a silly little label still hanging off it. (and I don't believe that, as suggested, there was an exception for advertised private sales.) Anyhow, before this act there was a thriving second-hand market in such furniture for use in the furnished rental market. After this law it just died completely and the number of available furnished properties for rent diminished considerably. tim On the other hand, the death toll from such furniture isn't too funny. I was involved in the industry when fire retardant foam first came out. Interestingly the majority of people killed in fires were smokers who were several times over the rink drive limit. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#6
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I was involved in the industry when fire retardant foam first came out. Interestingly the majority of people killed in fires were smokers who were several times over the rink drive limit. One of the reasons why I do not smoke in the house and one of the reasons I threw out a lodger (she was smoking in the bedroom) -- Adam |
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
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#8
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
Skipweasel wrote:
In article , says... One of the reasons why I do not smoke in the house and one of the reasons I threw out a lodger (she was smoking in the bedroom) Did you stamp her out first, or just let her smoulder in the garden? I was tempted. The annoying thing was my only rules were No smoking in the house. She failed that one Make sure that the doors are locked and the windows are shut when you go out (my insurance would be void with an unlocked door) She failed that one and be tidy. She passed that one I could not give a toss whatever else they did as long as they paid their bills. -- Adam |
#9
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Feb 27, 9:29*am, John Nagelson wrote:
If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture & Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? I know the regulations don't apply to furniture made before 1950. What about stuff made after 1950? I think the effect of section 14 is that I do have to ensure it complies, even if I'm not "in the trade" and this is the only piece of furniture I ever supply to anyone. Am I right about this? (If so, I'll have to dump it!) Thanks! John I know charities will only take furniture if it has the label. I skipped loads for this reason. |
#10
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On 27/02/2011 09:29, John Nagelson wrote:
If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? To highjack your thread, we cleared out the loft over the weekend & took loads of baby stuff to a local charity shop. One of the items was a car seat. I wasn't sure if they would take it, given the possible safety implications, but they were happy to. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#11
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 10:40:46 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:29*am, John Nagelson wrote: If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture & Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? I know the regulations don't apply to furniture made before 1950. What about stuff made after 1950? I think the effect of section 14 is that I do have to ensure it complies, even if I'm not "in the trade" and this is the only piece of furniture I ever supply to anyone. Am I right about this? (If so, I'll have to dump it!) Thanks! John I know charities will only take furniture if it has the label. I skipped loads for this reason. It is a pity; I have some Parker Knoll furniture from pre-1980 and it might have to be scrapped when I get rid of it. The last piece of PK that went was broken up first as there's some good wood in the stuff. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#12
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
Tabby wrote:
On Feb 27, 12:03 pm, "tim...." wrote: "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in ... John Nagelson wrote: On Feb 27, 9:50 am, Lobster wrote: On 27/02/2011 09:29, John Nagelson wrote: If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? Nah. As a private one-off seller it's not relevant. Mind you, the market in old 3-piece suites is pretty non-existent IME - if you've got one dating before 1988 I'd be surprised if you'd get takers unless it's a but special. The quite reasonable suite in our kids playroom was acquired from ebay about 5 years ago - for 1p... Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref... Cheers! John I do know the auction house wouldn't take anything without fire certificate. And we skipped a lot during mother's house clear out. Simply unsaleable. Tragic. Yes, but they were made unsaleable by the "Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988" which IIRC required that the furniture still had its fireproof "label" attached. Who the **** uses furniture with a silly little label still hanging off it. (and I don't believe that, as suggested, there was an exception for advertised private sales.) Anyhow, before this act there was a thriving second-hand market in such furniture for use in the furnished rental market. After this law it just died completely and the number of available furnished properties for rent diminished considerably. tim On the other hand, the death toll from such furniture isn't too funny. Its a lot funnier than the death toll from candles. And Xmas trees. Neither of which are banned. NT |
#13
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref... Just read the regs and schedules and I have to agree, the only exception is second hand furnished caravans (random!). Second hand furniture must have its little label. Post 1988 most people know this and so don't remove the labels anymore however post 1950 and pre 1988 there is a huge chunk of time where furniture was produced without labels and is now effectively unsaleable. Tbh the regs are clearly incredibly stringent but by virtue of that are basically unenforceable on a day to day basis. It doesn't simply apply to sales but to supply too so that vetoes freecycle and handing items on too. I think the legislation was clearly needed and its intentions are good but I do think its badly drafted and misguided in how stringent it is in regard to the second hand market. There should have been better transitional arrangements. As it is the regs are clearly ignore on a daily basis by private individuals to the extent that a myth has grown up that there is even a specific exception. It'd be funny to see Trading Standards suddenly try to start enforcing it on private sales...I imagine it would be far too much hassle for them to be worth it! Never the less, to comply you do need a label. BTW, do you think there will develop a market in 30 years time for vintage rare upholstered post 50's furniture because so much has now been scrapped...? |
#14
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 10:40:46 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Feb 27, 9:29 am, John Nagelson wrote: If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture & Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988? I know the regulations don't apply to furniture made before 1950. What about stuff made after 1950? I think the effect of section 14 is that I do have to ensure it complies, even if I'm not "in the trade" and this is the only piece of furniture I ever supply to anyone. Am I right about this? (If so, I'll have to dump it!) Thanks! John I know charities will only take furniture if it has the label. I skipped loads for this reason. It is a pity; I have some Parker Knoll furniture from pre-1980 and it might have to be scrapped when I get rid of it. The last piece of PK that went was broken up first as there's some good wood in the stuff. You can get it re-upholstered with new materials. And a new label attached. It is sadly almost as expensive as a new piece. Frames account for very little of the cost of upholstered furniture. |
#15
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 02:07:33 -0800 (PST), John Nagelson
wrote: Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref... There isn't one, the regulations do, as you assumed, apply to private sales of second hand furniture. "14.—(1) This regulation applies to furniture which has previously been supplied ... to any person who acquired it otherwise than for the purposes of a business of dealing in furniture. (2) Furniture to which this regulation applies shall satisfy the requirements of regulations 5, 6 and 8(1) to (3) ..." "15.—(1) ...no person shall supply any furniture or other article in respect of which any of the requirements of these Regulations is not satisfied." "supply" is defined in the regulation as "“supply”, where the context so admits, includes offering and agreeing to supply and exposing and possessing for supply, and cognate expressions shall be construed accordingly." which includes private sales. The only exception for second hand furniture is that the display label specified in the regulation is not required. |
#16
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Feb 27, 5:32*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: Skipweasel wrote: In article , says... One of the reasons why I do not smoke in the house and one of the reasons I threw out a lodger (she was smoking in the bedroom) Did you stamp her out first, or just let her smoulder in the garden? I was tempted. The annoying thing was my only rules were No smoking in the house. She failed that one Make sure that the doors are locked and the windows are shut when you go out (my insurance would be void with an unlocked door) She failed that one and be tidy. She passed that one I could not give a toss whatever else they did as long as they paid their bills. Weird isnt it how some people just dont take any notice, then wonder why they suffer the consequences. NT |
#17
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:31:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Its a lot funnier than the death toll from candles. And Xmas trees. Neither of which are banned. Attack of the killer xmas trees? Why are they so dangerous? -- |
#18
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Feb 28, 10:36*am, meg_mog wrote:
Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref... Just read the regs and schedules and I have to agree, the only exception is second hand furnished caravans (random!). Second hand furniture must have its little label. *Post 1988 most people know this and so don't remove the labels anymore however post 1950 and pre 1988 there is a huge chunk of time where furniture was produced without labels and is now effectively unsaleable. Tbh the regs are clearly incredibly stringent but by virtue of that are basically unenforceable on a day to day basis. It doesn't simply apply to sales but to supply too so that vetoes freecycle and handing items on too. I think the legislation was clearly needed and its intentions are good but I do think its badly drafted and misguided in how stringent it is in regard to the second hand market. *There should have been better transitional arrangements. As it is the regs are clearly ignore on a daily basis by private individuals to the extent that a myth has grown up that there is even a specific exception. *It'd be funny to see Trading Standards suddenly try to start enforcing it on private sales...I imagine it would be far too much hassle for them to be worth it! Never the less, to comply you do need a label. *BTW, do you think there will develop a market in 30 years time for vintage rare upholstered post 50's furniture because so much has now been scrapped...? A seller was prosecuted for selling in pounds & ounces... what makes you think they'll apply sense. NT |
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
The Other Mike wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:31:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Its a lot funnier than the death toll from candles. And Xmas trees. Neither of which are banned. Attack of the killer xmas trees? Why are they so dangerous? Because they are highly flammable and usually surrounded and or hung with even more inflammable materials in the shape of packages and may or may not feature actual candles, but will always be festooned with electrical lights all of which is installed by amateurs and subject to no professional supervision. |
#20
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:37:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: You can get it re-upholstered with new materials. And a new label attached. It is sadly almost as expensive as a new piece. Frames account for very little of the cost of upholstered furniture. On quality secondhand stuff it ought to. Most modern stuff sadly uses cardboard, mdf, chipboard, plywood and occasionally some real wood. Tthat you can no longer torch it with a dropped cigarette is a disgrace. -- |
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Feb 28, 10:31*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: Its a lot funnier than *the death toll from candles. And Xmas trees. Candles and cigarettes, yes, but where are all the christmas tree deaths? Rospa (for one) don't seem to have any credence to add to this claim. |
#22
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
In article c435ded3-8840-44d1-a860-bfd616da9770@
18g2000prd.googlegroups.com, says... Just read the regs and schedules and I have to agree, the only exception is second hand furnished caravans (random!). Caravans seem to be exempt from just about every rule going. Particularly insulation rules, as anyone who's tried sleeping in one off-season can tell you. -- Skipweasel - never knowingly understood. |
#23
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:37:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I know charities will only take furniture if it has the label. I skipped loads for this reason. It is a pity; I have some Parker Knoll furniture from pre-1980 and it might have to be scrapped when I get rid of it. The last piece of PK that went was broken up first as there's some good wood in the stuff. You can get it re-upholstered with new materials. And a new label attached. It is sadly almost as expensive as a new piece. Frames account for very little of the cost of upholstered furniture. It's too big for the room, sadly, so spending a lot of money on it isn't an option. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
Skipweasel wrote:
In article c435ded3-8840-44d1-a860-bfd616da9770@ 18g2000prd.googlegroups.com, says... Just read the regs and schedules and I have to agree, the only exception is second hand furnished caravans (random!). Caravans seem to be exempt from just about every rule going. Particularly insulation rules, as anyone who's tried sleeping in one off-season can tell you. They are not too bad. Our camper has a gas fire.. |
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
tim.... wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message ... One of the events which caused a push for this legislation was the fire in Woolworths in the centre of Manchester in 1979. The fire was thought to have started due to an electrical fault, but the dense smoke due to polyurethane foam in the furniture that then caught fire killed 10 people. 3 were found less than 6 feet from an exit and three more close by, all overcome by the fumes. So that's a good reason to make sure that all new furniture is made from new materials. It is not a reason to stop someone offload their old sofa to someone (who can't afford a new one) for 20 quid Depends what value you put on a life. /Cynic mode It also makes jobs for furniture makers. Cynic Mode/ -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#27
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... tim.... wrote: "Steve Walker" wrote in message ... One of the events which caused a push for this legislation was the fire in Woolworths in the centre of Manchester in 1979. The fire was thought to have started due to an electrical fault, but the dense smoke due to polyurethane foam in the furniture that then caught fire killed 10 people. 3 were found less than 6 feet from an exit and three more close by, all overcome by the fumes. So that's a good reason to make sure that all new furniture is made from new materials. It is not a reason to stop someone offload their old sofa to someone (who can't afford a new one) for 20 quid Depends what value you put on a life. That's for the buyer to decide. If this wasn't the rule in the UK why are we still allowing cigarettes to be sold tim |
#28
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
tim.... wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... tim.... wrote: "Steve Walker" wrote in message ... One of the events which caused a push for this legislation was the fire in Woolworths in the centre of Manchester in 1979. The fire was thought to have started due to an electrical fault, but the dense smoke due to polyurethane foam in the furniture that then caught fire killed 10 people. 3 were found less than 6 feet from an exit and three more close by, all overcome by the fumes. So that's a good reason to make sure that all new furniture is made from new materials. It is not a reason to stop someone offload their old sofa to someone (who can't afford a new one) for 20 quid Depends what value you put on a life. That's for the buyer to decide. If this wasn't the rule in the UK why are we still allowing cigarettes to be sold Cynically, because the government can't manage without the income from the tax. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#29
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
tim.... wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... tim.... wrote: "Steve Walker" wrote in message ... One of the events which caused a push for this legislation was the fire in Woolworths in the centre of Manchester in 1979. The fire was thought to have started due to an electrical fault, but the dense smoke due to polyurethane foam in the furniture that then caught fire killed 10 people. 3 were found less than 6 feet from an exit and three more close by, all overcome by the fumes. So that's a good reason to make sure that all new furniture is made from new materials. It is not a reason to stop someone offload their old sofa to someone (who can't afford a new one) for 20 quid Depends what value you put on a life. That's for the buyer to decide. If this wasn't the rule in the UK why are we still allowing cigarettes to be sold Since when did you expect legislation to make sense? tim |
#30
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private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:10:47 +0000, The Other Mike
wrote: On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:31:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: Its a lot funnier than the death toll from candles. And Xmas trees. Neither of which are banned. Attack of the killer xmas trees? Why are they so dangerous? You mean you didn't see the Doctor Who Christmas Specials? Nick |
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