I'm sure in the ever helpful UK D-I-Y group they'll be someone who knows
the answer to this..


In article
..com, Andrea scribeth thus
We need to move our electricity meter and have been told that in order
to do so we need to contact our electricity supplier.

We called them (e.on) and were given the runaround. Eventually we were
referred to UK Power Networks, who are apparently the company
responsible for the power distribution in our part of Cambridge. They
have said it will cost between £700 and £1200 to move it 2m, and that
they will not be able to move it for ten to twelve weeks !!!

We have read that only the "legal owner of this service and equipment"
can move it.

Does anyone know whether ...

* UK Power Networks are the legal owner or just representatives of the
legal owner?
* There are other companies that have authority to do this?
* If we changed electricity supplier, would this help?

Thanks!
~Andrea.

--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer ) wibbled on Thursday 17 February 2011 13:25:


I'm sure in the ever helpful UK D-I-Y group they'll be someone who knows
the answer to this..


In article
.com, Andrea scribeth thus
We need to move our electricity meter and have been told that in order
to do so we need to contact our electricity supplier.

We called them (e.on) and were given the runaround. Eventually we were
referred to UK Power Networks, who are apparently the company
responsible for the power distribution in our part of Cambridge. They
have said it will cost between £700 and £1200 to move it 2m, and that
they will not be able to move it for ten to twelve weeks !!!

We have read that only the "legal owner of this service and equipment"
can move it.

Does anyone know whether ...

* UK Power Networks are the legal owner or just representatives of the
legal owner?
* There are other companies that have authority to do this?
* If we changed electricity supplier, would this help?

Thanks!
~Andrea.


The move must be done by the Meter Operator - which in some cases is the
same as the network company, in others is diiferent. The billing company is
incidental to the move itelf but *I think* usually the move must be booked
through them.


--
Tim Watts

On Feb 17, 1:25*pm, tony sayer wrote:
I'm sure in the ever helpful UK D-I-Y group they'll be someone who knows
the answer to this..

In article
.com, Andrea scribeth thus





We need to move our electricity meter and have been told that in order
to do so we need to contact our electricity supplier.

We called them (e.on) and were given the runaround. Eventually we were
referred to UK Power Networks, who are apparently the company
responsible for the power distribution in our part of Cambridge. They
have said it will cost between £700 and £1200 to move it 2m, and that
they will not be able to move it for ten to twelve weeks !!!

We have read that only the "legal owner of this service and equipment"
can move it.

Does anyone know whether ...

* UK Power Networks are the legal owner or just representatives of the
legal owner?
* There are other companies that have authority to do this?
* If we changed electricity supplier, would this help?

Thanks!
~Andrea.

--
Tony Sayer- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well you could always do it on the QT.

On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

Well if you like live working with something that can deliver tens of
kW's of power, assuming the cut out has to be moved as well.

Not a problem here I could just pull the 200A fuse at the pole. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800, harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT.

Though it wouldn't be very QT if you Fd it up.
Well, it would be very quiet afterwards ...

--
John Stumbles

Many hands make light work. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

Well if you like live working with something that can deliver tens of
kW's of power, assuming the cut out has to be moved as well.

What's the problem ?

I did

What are you going to do, try connecting the tails together to see what
happens ?


--
geoff

On Feb 17, 10:03*pm, geoff wrote:
What's the problem ?

I think the problem is the OP has not indicated what type of cable or
cutout :-)

Old rubber meter tails.
Ceramic fuse carriers.
Pilc cable.
Withdrawing ancient pilc down a duct is something even DNO try to
avoid.

PSSC is typically 1,200A to ensure fault disconnect with a 100A fuse,
which is 250kW and an upstream fuse can be somewhat higher than 100A.
That is rather a lot bigger than a typical welder flash. Not all
supply cables are nice split-con or SWA, some are really nasty stuff
with partly collapsed ducting some way along under solid floor making
withdrawal a rather interesting experience.

For gas you can use a commercial independent meter move company, but
for a domestic U6 gas meter the cost is usually higher than what
National Grid (at the gain of potentially faster response). For
domestic electric I do not think there is an independent commercial
solution re competition. I suspect you can ask for a cost breakdown,
making good and digging a trench for example are charged at very high
rates (£450 or so).

In article
.com, Andrea scribeth thus
We need to move our electricity meter and have been told that in order
to do so we need to contact our electricity supplier.

We called them (e.on) and were given the runaround. Eventually we were
referred to UK Power Networks, who are apparently the company
responsible for the power distribution in our part of Cambridge. They
have said it will cost between £700 and £1200 to move it 2m, and that
they will not be able to move it for ten to twelve weeks !!!

We have read that only the "legal owner of this service and equipment"
can move it.


You contact whoever you pay the bill to.
They can arrange to move your meter. I have rang these Companies a
number of times for customers, and it is difficult to get to speak to
someone who actually knows what you require, and if it can be done.
My own supply is from Scottish and Southern, and after, finally, getting
through to the right department, it was quite easy to book a time to
have the supply disconnected.
When the chap arrived, he asked if I'd also like a new meter fitting, as
we still have the original.
There was no charge at all for this.
I have also contacted Eon about having a new earth feed fitted, and they
want £360 for this.
I think you may have spoken to the wrong people when they quoted £700+
to move a meter.

If however, you want the incoming feed moving, then you can expect a
£700+ bill.

Alan.


--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT


And when the meter reader come to call how do you explain the new location?

Mike

In message , at 07:50:15 on
Fri, 18 Feb 2011, A.Lee remarked:

I think you may have spoken to the wrong people when they quoted £700+
to move a meter.

If however, you want the incoming feed moving, then you can expect a
£700+ bill.

I think we are well past the point at which the OP needs to clarify
exactly what it is they want moving.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:03:04 +0000, geoff wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

Well if you like live working with something that can deliver tens
of
kW's of power, assuming the cut out has to be moved as well.

What's the problem ?

A simple slip with a screwdriver leading to said screwdriver being
instantly vaporised in a rather large explosion? Access is normally
not that good for meters (under strairs etc) so an accident is much
more likely.

--
Cheers
Dave.

MuddyMike wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

And when the meter reader come to call how do you explain the new location?

Mike


Sine they are all subcontract, you simply tell im you had it moved.

MuddyMike wrote:
And when the meter reader come to call how do you explain the new location?

Why would the meter reader (who is probably several layers of
outsourcing removed from the supply and distribution companies) care?

Dave

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

MuddyMike wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

And when the meter reader come to call how do you explain the new
location?

Sine they are all subcontract, you simply tell im you had it moved.

They don't know where it is or should be. They ask to read the meter,
you show them where it is. Simples.

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 07:50:15 on
Fri, 18 Feb 2011, A.Lee remarked:

I think you may have spoken to the wrong people when they quoted £700+
to move a meter.

If however, you want the incoming feed moving, then you can expect a
£700+ bill.

I think we are well past the point at which the OP needs to clarify
exactly what it is they want moving.

I disagree, unless you mean something other than what what you've said
sounds like, namely that it is now too late for the OP to do any
clarifying. What I suspect you really mean is that it is high time he
did do so. That I would wholeheartedly agree with.

We should know what he wants moving to where, and why. In particular,
it would seem that ideally the incoming cable itself should not be
disturbed, as this could be a source of danger if there's any chance
it will start to disintegrate. So how feasible is it simply to replace
the existing meter with a connector block and then run a pair of new
tail-style wires from this connector to the meter's proposed new site?

Is it the bulkiness of the meter which is the reason for the move? If
so, then it may not be necessary to move it at all, since the new style
meters (which are being rolled out routinely as replacements for ones
above a certain age) are really quite small, not much bulkier than a
connector block!

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:23:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

And when the meter reader come to call how do you explain the new
location?

Sine they are all subcontract, you simply tell im you had it moved.

Quite and one of the few bits of info that the OP gave was the
distance "2m" IIRC.

TBH I don't know how much info the readers electronic gismo carries.
It may well have "meter moved" info so the meter reader knows to look
elsewhere. They certainly have a "must be read" field, which annoys
the meter reader if you happen to be out when they call as they
*have* to then return and/or make an appointment.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice ) wibbled on Friday 18
February 2011 08:31:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:03:04 +0000, geoff wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

Well if you like live working with something that can deliver tens
of
kW's of power, assuming the cut out has to be moved as well.

What's the problem ?

A simple slip with a screwdriver leading to said screwdriver being
instantly vaporised in a rather large explosion? Access is normally
not that good for meters (under strairs etc) so an accident is much
more likely.


If we are talking about the meter, one asumes he'll pull the cutout fuse.

Explaining lack of seals on a meter can be dodgy though.

--
Tim Watts

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
MuddyMike wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

And when the meter reader come to call how do you explain the new location?

Mike


Sine they are all subcontract, you simply tell im you had it moved.

Indeed who would notice and who would bother these days?. Just say its
been like that for years and ask 'em could they re-seal it?..
--
Tony Sayer

Ronald Raygun wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 07:50:15 on
Fri, 18 Feb 2011, A.Lee remarked:
I think you may have spoken to the wrong people when they quoted £700+
to move a meter.

If however, you want the incoming feed moving, then you can expect a
£700+ bill.
I think we are well past the point at which the OP needs to clarify
exactly what it is they want moving.

I disagree, unless you mean something other than what what you've said
sounds like, namely that it is now too late for the OP to do any
clarifying. What I suspect you really mean is that it is high time he
did do so. That I would wholeheartedly agree with.

We should know what he wants moving to where, and why. In particular,
it would seem that ideally the incoming cable itself should not be
disturbed, as this could be a source of danger if there's any chance
it will start to disintegrate. So how feasible is it simply to replace
the existing meter with a connector block and then run a pair of new
tail-style wires from this connector to the meter's proposed new site?


Totally unaccepatble: such a block is upstream of all but the supply
side fuse and is an exceedingly dangerous shock hazard. It also provides
a point at which unmetered electricity may be drawn, and the electricity
company would take a completely dim view of that as would I.


If any work has to be done on the cable TO the meter, you have to pull
the fuses at the local substation first, and that work has to be done to
standards. Yes, you can extend an undergrounded supply, but there are
regulations to this, and its never a good idea.


In short the way it pans out osis this

- if you ae working inside your house, you trip the main breaker and
work on your internal wiring.

- If you are working on the cabling between the meter and your consumer
unit (which must not exceed IIRC 2 meters in length) you must pull the
electricity companies house fuse and get it re-sealed later on at a
small cost.

- if you are working on the incoming supply, overhead or underground,
you must get the wiring isolated at the substation, by the electricity
company.

In my case, we did no more than carefully dig up the existing
underground cable and move the whole meter assembly still live. Very
carefully. We certainly would not have attempted to disturb the
connection to the meter itself.

If you have to remake the connection to the underground cable, or extend
it, I would suggest that the lowest cost approach is to prepare the way
first: That is dig to expose the old cable at some point, make a new
meter cupboard outside where its supposed to go, and complete work on
the new consumer unit or whatever it is, whilst its all still dead.

Then contact the electricity company and tell them that they do not need
to dig, merely disconnect, move the meter to the new tails, complete the
underground wiring to stanards and be there while you backfill the trench.




Is it the bulkiness of the meter which is the reason for the move? If
so, then it may not be necessary to move it at all, since the new style
meters (which are being rolled out routinely as replacements for ones
above a certain age) are really quite small, not much bulkier than a
connector block!



Its more likely that e,g. a house rewire has taken/is to take place with
a new consumer unit whose siting is diffeent, and more convenient: the
regulations means that the meter has to be close to it, and almost all
new builds and new installatons require an outside meter in a
weatherproof box, so the meter reader does not hae to come indoors in a
property that may be locked and not occupied at the time of the meter
reading.

I suppose my view of these things is different: given the amount of
organisation and actual man hours involved, to pass that job over to
someone else to do to standards, for a mere £700, seems a total bargain.

The company has to
- arrange or the supply side fuse to be drawn
- engage a firm to dig any exsting cable out
- arrange fr a firm to resite te meter and connect to the new incoming
and new internal tails
- test the installation
- get the digging company back to backfill with the mandatory safety
tape over the top
- check the installation
- replace the seals on the internal fuse
- go back to the substation and replace the main fuse there.

This will most likely involve at lest one project management guy to
drive there a couple of times to make sure its all done, who will also
have to book the subcontractor
- probably a team of two to do the digging and back filling
- a competent electrician trained in te standards of underground wiring


And all those people need to be there at the same time, or there will be
an unacceptable delay in the job.

That's probably 4 man days or so, plus office overheads..transport
costs, materials. It might even involve a mini-digger on site..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The company has to
- arrange or the supply side fuse to be drawn
- engage a firm to dig any exsting cable out
- arrange fr a firm to resite te meter and connect to the new incoming
and new internal tails
- test the installation
- get the digging company back to backfill with the mandatory safety
tape over the top
- check the installation
- replace the seals on the internal fuse
- go back to the substation and replace the main fuse there.

I have yet to see a team pull the fuse at the substation when altering a
supply to a house. They have always worked live when I have watched them.

--
Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The company has to
- arrange or the supply side fuse to be drawn
- engage a firm to dig any exsting cable out
- arrange fr a firm to resite te meter and connect to the new incoming
and new internal tails
- test the installation
- get the digging company back to backfill with the mandatory safety
tape over the top
- check the installation
- replace the seals on the internal fuse
- go back to the substation and replace the main fuse there.

I have yet to see a team pull the fuse at the substation when altering a
supply to a house. They have always worked live when I have watched them.



It depends on what you mean by 'altering'

It is simply not possible to cut an undergound cable and add a new bit
on to standards, when its live.

To do that would be to completely negate any isnuarance they might have.

On Feb 18, 10:52*am, The Natural Philosopher

If any work has to be done on the cable TO the meter, you have to pull
the fuses at the local substation first,

And isolate the half the street? Yeah, right, NOT!

This is another "hardware" issue you clearly know nothing about.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 18, 10:52 am, The Natural Philosopher
If any work has to be done on the cable TO the meter, you have to pull
the fuses at the local substation first,

And isolate the half the street? Yeah, right, NOT!


You don't appear to understand how these things work.

Every line to every house has a fuse in it, to protect the transformer
at the substation from a short in the underground line. Typically these
are 100A, or 200A fuses.


They are duplicated by the main incoming fuse inside the property, which
is there to protect the cable from shorts that are inside the house.


This is another "hardware" issue you clearly know nothing about.


I think when you don't know what you are talking about, you should keep
your mouth shut.


MBQ

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The company has to
- arrange or the supply side fuse to be drawn
- engage a firm to dig any exsting cable out
- arrange fr a firm to resite te meter and connect to the new
incoming and new internal tails
- test the installation
- get the digging company back to backfill with the mandatory safety
tape over the top
- check the installation
- replace the seals on the internal fuse
- go back to the substation and replace the main fuse there.

I have yet to see a team pull the fuse at the substation when
altering a supply to a house. They have always worked live when I
have watched them.


It depends on what you mean by 'altering'

It has always been the moving of the cutout that I have witnessed.

It is simply not possible to cut an undergound cable and add a new bit
on to standards, when its live.

They never "cut" the cable. They open it up and splice in the new cable.

To do that would be to completely negate any isnuarance they might
have.

Well I have been on site for many cutout moves as I am needed to reconnect
the customers CU when they are finished and they have always worked on live
cables, both underground and above ground.

--
Adam

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 18, 10:52 am, The Natural Philosopher
If any work has to be done on the cable TO the meter, you have to
pull the fuses at the local substation first,

And isolate the half the street? Yeah, right, NOT!


You don't appear to understand how these things work.

Every line to every house has a fuse in it, to protect the transformer
at the substation from a short in the underground line. Typically
these are 100A, or 200A fuses.

Um, wouldn't that imply a radial network to every house from your local
substation? Seems a hugely wasteful way to supply houses.

Tim

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You don't appear to understand how these things work.

Every line to every house has a fuse in it, to protect the transformer
at the substation from a short in the underground line. Typically these
are 100A, or 200A fuses.

Do you have any evidence for that?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Feb 18, 11:05*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The company has to
- arrange or the supply side fuse to be drawn
- engage a firm to dig any exsting cable out
- arrange fr a firm to resite te meter and connect to the new incoming
and new internal tails
- test the installation
- get the digging company back to backfill with the mandatory safety
tape over the top
- check the installation
- replace the seals on the internal fuse
- go back to the substation and replace the main fuse there.

I have yet to see a team pull the fuse at the substation when altering a
supply to a house. They have always worked live when I have watched them.

It depends on what you mean by 'altering'

It is simply not possible to cut an undergound cable and add a new bit
on to standards, when its live.

To do that would be to completely negate any isnuarance they might have.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This is simply not true and EDF engineers do it every day

I have just had the head and meter moved extended by 3 meters
( November 2010) from an intergal garage to a utility room by EDF and
they did exactly what you are saying they do not do

EDF dug up my drive and exposed the lead cable.
The engineer then split the lead sheath with a plastic chisel as
easily as you would peel a banana
he then peeled off the paper and placed a crimp on the positive

He then cut off the rest of the old cable into the house.

He then joined on 4 meters of armoured cable while his mate connecte
the other end to the relocated board

He then put a plastic torpedo around the sheath and filled it with
epoxy and left my builder to backfill

All of this was done live and he told me several chaps were killed
each year, but he did this 4 times a day

( must be horible to do this when drives have been dug up by diggers
and damaged the cables)

Total cost was about £1000

I am told by EDF that any Lloyds register contractor can do this but
only EDF have a universal service obligation

HTH Phil

On 18/02/2011 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Every line to every house has a fuse in it, to protect the transformer
at the substation from a short in the underground line. Typically these
are 100A, or 200A fuses.

ROTFL - absolute nonsense. Were you joking? It may apply in your case
where you're fed from a dedicated transformer, but for the rest of us
house service cables are just tapped off the street mains via
underground resin-filled joints, or overhead line taps. The mains are
divided into isolatable sections with link boxes (usually in the
pavement), allowing them to minimise the extent of any outages following
cable faults. In urban areas the mains are usually fed from both ends,
with the transformer secondaries being interconnected in a mesh - again
allowing faults to confined so as to minimise the number of consumers
affected.

House service cables are protected against overload by the main fuse in
the house cut-out (aka the supply head), and against cable faults by the
upstream fusing, which is typically 315 or 500 A and is more likely to
be in a link box or pillar than at a sub-station. Small size service
cables for street lights etc. (usually 4 mm^2) act as their own fuses
and blow-up harmlessly underground in the event of a short.

Live working on the LV mains is absolutely routine. Always 2- (or more)
man teams. For a house service alteration they will normally work live.
An exception is where old (pre-WW2) cut-outs and cables are involved.
These can be dangerous if disturbed and they may elect to isolate the
supply. The method of isolation will usually be to dig a hole and cut
the service cable. Isolating half a street (even if only one phase) is
simply not acceptable, unless there's no alternative.

That's my understanding anyway. Hopefully 'The Wanderer' will chip in
if I've got anything wrong.

--
Andy

On 18/02/2011 12:37, wrote:

All of this was done live and he told me several chaps were killed
each year, but he did this 4 times a day

Suspect he was over-egging on the people getting killed thing - even one
death would get the HSE getting medieval on them, but the rest was
interesting, ta.

On Feb 18, 8:26*am, "MuddyMike" wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message

ll.co.uk...

On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:07:18 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Well you could always do it on the QT

And when the meter reader come to call how do you explain the new location?

Probably via ouija board.

Sam

On 18/02/2011 12:48, Clive George wrote:

Suspect he was over-egging on the people getting killed thing - even one
death would get the HSE getting medieval on them, but the rest was
interesting, ta.

Agreed. Also note that the DNO side of EDF is now known as UK Power
Networks, have been sold to Cheung Kong Group last October[1,2]. (So we
now get Far-Eastern electricity instead of French...)

The new 'armoured' service cable referred to was almost certainly a
concentric type: line conductor in the middle with the combined neutral
& earth formed by surrounding strands, and no 'armouring' /per-se/.

[1]
http://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/pro...n-charge.shtml

[2] Useful info he
http://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/pro...ctsheets.shtml

--
Andy

Chris J Dixon wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You don't appear to understand how these things work.

Every line to every house has a fuse in it, to protect the transformer
at the substation from a short in the underground line. Typically these
are 100A, or 200A fuses.

Do you have any evidence for that?


inside my substation, there is exactly that. I know because it blew when
a digger sliced through the house feed.

Then they replaced it, it blew again after a day.

Then they put in 200A "so that when it goes, it will take the cable
fault with it and we can identify where the problem is'

It did, they did, we got a digger in and lifted the cable. Sure enough
the idiot who dug the new foundations had smashed it and not told us.
new bit spliced in, fuse in substation replaced, backfilled the hole,
and its been fine ever since.



Chris

wrote:
On Feb 18, 11:05 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The company has to
- arrange or the supply side fuse to be drawn
- engage a firm to dig any exsting cable out
- arrange fr a firm to resite te meter and connect to the new incoming
and new internal tails
- test the installation
- get the digging company back to backfill with the mandatory safety
tape over the top
- check the installation
- replace the seals on the internal fuse
- go back to the substation and replace the main fuse there.
I have yet to see a team pull the fuse at the substation when altering a
supply to a house. They have always worked live when I have watched them.
It depends on what you mean by 'altering'

It is simply not possible to cut an undergound cable and add a new bit
on to standards, when its live.

To do that would be to completely negate any isnuarance they might have.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This is simply not true and EDF engineers do it every day

I have just had the head and meter moved extended by 3 meters
( November 2010) from an intergal garage to a utility room by EDF and
they did exactly what you are saying they do not do

EDF dug up my drive and exposed the lead cable.
The engineer then split the lead sheath with a plastic chisel as
easily as you would peel a banana

what lead sheath? Mine is armored coax with steel cables wound round it?

No chance of tackling that with anything less than cutters or an angle
grinder or a digger bucket)

he then peeled off the paper and placed a crimp on the positive


No paper in my cable.

He then cut off the rest of the old cable into the house.

He then joined on 4 meters of armoured cable while his mate connecte
the other end to the relocated board

He then put a plastic torpedo around the sheath and filled it with
epoxy and left my builder to backfill


That's the only bit that tallies with my experience.


All of this was done live and he told me several chaps were killed
each year, but he did this 4 times a day

All I can say is that none of this tallies with my installation at all.

The susbtation is designed for up to half a dozen separate circuits.
Sort of corner of the street box. There is a potential place for a fuse
in every one.. I happen to be the only one on it, but that's the way the
new kit is.

I emphasise this is a very small susbstation, the size of a deep freeze,
that takes 11KV and turns it into about 500A worth of 240V.

Installed about 1998 IIRC, when I went from overhead pole mounted
transformer for the house, to undergrounded installation.




( must be horible to do this when drives have been dug up by diggers
and damaged the cables)

Total cost was about £1000

I am told by EDF that any Lloyds register contractor can do this but
only EDF have a universal service obligation


It sounds really dangerous to me, and only possible with lead sheathed
older cables, which may be wired up differently.

My substation appears to be the sort of thing you put in a new housing
estate, to feed half a dozen houses.

HTH Phil

Andy Wade wrote:
On 18/02/2011 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Every line to every house has a fuse in it, to protect the transformer
at the substation from a short in the underground line. Typically these
are 100A, or 200A fuses.

ROTFL - absolute nonsense. Were you joking? It may apply in your case
where you're fed from a dedicated transformer, but for the rest of us
house service cables are just tapped off the street mains via
underground resin-filled joints, or overhead line taps. The mains are
divided into isolatable sections with link boxes (usually in the
pavement), allowing them to minimise the extent of any outages following
cable faults. In urban areas the mains are usually fed from both ends,
with the transformer secondaries being interconnected in a mesh - again
allowing faults to confined so as to minimise the number of consumers
affected.

well if that is so, I have never seen it.
I assumed standard practice was followed in all installations. If its
otherwise, I stand corrected.



House service cables are protected against overload by the main fuse in
the house cut-out (aka the supply head), and against cable faults by the
upstream fusing, which is typically 315 or 500 A and is more likely to
be in a link box or pillar than at a sub-station. Small size service
cables for street lights etc. (usually 4 mm^2) act as their own fuses
and blow-up harmlessly underground in the event of a short.

Live working on the LV mains is absolutely routine. Always 2- (or more)
man teams. For a house service alteration they will normally work live.
An exception is where old (pre-WW2) cut-outs and cables are involved.
These can be dangerous if disturbed and they may elect to isolate the
supply. The method of isolation will usually be to dig a hole and cut
the service cable. Isolating half a street (even if only one phase) is
simply not acceptable, unless there's no alternative.

That's my understanding anyway. Hopefully 'The Wanderer' will chip in
if I've got anything wrong.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Feb 18, 10:52 am, The Natural Philosopher
If any work has to be done on the cable TO the meter, you have to pull
the fuses at the local substation first,
And isolate the half the street? Yeah, right, NOT!

You don't appear to understand how these things work.

Every line to every house has a fuse in it, to protect the transformer
at the substation from a short in the underground line. Typically
these are 100A, or 200A fuses.

We've got two wires (horizontal separation about two to three feet)
coming across the field opposite, which drop down to a transformer on
the last but one pole. From that to pole outside my house, two wires
(vertical separation about 6", near as I can tell).

Single fat wire comes from that pole to my house, and twisted fat wires
go on down the road to about four other properties.

Is that fuse you're referring to, then, at the point where the fat wire
leave "my" pole to come to my house?


Apparently I was wrong, and old installations are not fused the way mine is.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The company has to
- arrange or the supply side fuse to be drawn
- engage a firm to dig any exsting cable out
- arrange fr a firm to resite te meter and connect to the new
incoming and new internal tails
- test the installation
- get the digging company back to backfill with the mandatory safety
tape over the top
- check the installation
- replace the seals on the internal fuse
- go back to the substation and replace the main fuse there.

I have yet to see a team pull the fuse at the substation when
altering a supply to a house. They have always worked live when I
have watched them.


It depends on what you mean by 'altering'

It is simply not possible to cut an undergound cable and add a new bit
on to standards, when its live.

To do that would be to completely negate any isnuarance they might
have.

Only last week, a neighbour having an extension built had to call out the
leccy board (don't laugh, I'm old :-) ) when the JCB driver pulled and
snapped the feed cable into her house. Cable jointers repaired it live.

On 18/02/2011 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Apparently I was wrong, and old installations are not fused the way mine
is.

It's not so much age as urban v. isolated-rural. The only situation
(AIUI) in which there will be a dedicated upstream fuse for 'you' is
where the transformer serves your property and no others. Tim's
situation is quite common, with a common fuse on the same pole as the
transformer and the supply then branching to feed a few premises.

--
Andy

On 18/02/11 10:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

- If you are working on the cabling between the meter and your consumer
unit (which must not exceed IIRC 2 meters in length) you must pull the
electricity companies house fuse and get it re-sealed later on at a small
cost.

Can't be right. My meter is in the hallway on the ground floor. The
consumer unit in a cupboard in my 2nd floor flat.



--
djc

djc wrote:
On 18/02/11 10:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

- If you are working on the cabling between the meter and your consumer
unit (which must not exceed IIRC 2 meters in length) you must pull the
electricity companies house fuse and get it re-sealed later on at a small
cost.

Can't be right. My meter is in the hallway on the ground floor. The
consumer unit in a cupboard in my 2nd floor flat.

When was that built?

I am pretty sure I had to rather compromise where my CU went, to
comply..in 2000.

djc wrote:
On 18/02/11 10:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

- If you are working on the cabling between the meter and your
consumer unit (which must not exceed IIRC 2 meters in length) you
must pull the electricity companies house fuse and get it re-sealed
later on at a small cost.

Can't be right. My meter is in the hallway on the ground floor. The
consumer unit in a cupboard in my 2nd floor flat.

That is very common. The maximum distance for meter tails is usually 2 to 3
meters. However the way round this is to install a fused isolator close to
the meter with a fuse that is smaller than the cutout fuse and supply the CU
from the isolator.

--
Adam