I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the house
that run off a photocell and burn away through the night, lighting up
half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

I'm trying to work out how I can make this better by either;

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

b) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell to achieve a) but that
switches over to a PIR sensor once the initial 3 hours (or however long
I set) has passed

Suggestions appreciated as to what the "thing" might be and where it
could be purchased (for less than the cost of the power consumed by said
lights).


--
Cheers, Pete

On Feb 2, 10:22*am, Peter B wrote:
I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the house
that run off a photocell and burn away through the night, lighting up
half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

I'm trying to work out how I can make this better by either;

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

b) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell to achieve a) but that
switches over to a PIR sensor once the initial 3 hours (or however long
I set) has passed

Suggestions appreciated as to what the "thing" might be and where it
could be purchased (for less than the cost of the power consumed by said
lights).

If you want the lights on for 3 hrs then to switch to PIR, just put a
PIR and timeswitch in parallel.


NT

On 02/02/2011 10:22, Peter B wrote:

I'm trying to work out how I can make this better by either;

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

A series time-switch contact[*] would be a cheap & effective solution
giving illumination from dusk 'til a fixed off time (and a from fixed on
time 'til dawn on dark mornings if desired).

b) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell to achieve a) but that
switches over to a PIR sensor once the initial 3 hours (or however long
I set) has passed

That just needs a PIR on same circuit feeding the lights directly,
passing the photo/time switch.
[*] If your photocell needs a permanent mains feed (i.e. it requires a
neutral connection) then you'll need a time-switch with a floating
('volt-free') contact after the photocell. Feed the time-switch 'motor'
directly from the supply.

--
Andy

Peter B wrote:
I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the
house that run off a photocell and burn away through the night,
lighting up half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

I'm trying to work out how I can make this better by either;

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

b) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell to achieve a) but
that switches over to a PIR sensor once the initial 3 hours (or
however long I set) has passed

Suggestions appreciated as to what the "thing" might be and where it
could be purchased (for less than the cost of the power consumed by
said lights).

You have a number of options.

http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/newlec-photocell-kit-pt-photodiode-switch-on-70-lux-switch-off-105-lux/1052044984/ProductInformation.raction
is a photocell that switches off at midnight and back on at 5.30am. You
would then need to wire a PIR or manual switch in parallel with the
photocell if you wanted to over-ride the off period. You have not said what
the power of your outside lights are so I do not know if they are costing
more than a new photocell.

I recently added outside lights to my brothers garage. These are operated by
a normal dusk till dawn sensor but the output of the sensor passes through
the switched terminals of a second hand CH programmer that I had. The
programmer turns off the lights at 6pm everynight but allows him to
over-ride if he is working late. It also switches the lights back on at
7.30am (if it is dark) for when he arrives at work. The added bonus is that
the lights do not come on a the weekend. You can use any "volts free
switching" timer as long at can cope with the power of the lights.

The trouble with just having the lights stay on for 3 hours after sunset is
that in the winter the lights will go out at 8pm and in the summer they will
go out at midnight .

--
Adam

On Feb 2, 10:22*am, Peter B wrote:

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

These photocell controllers
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Elec.../sd2659/p65651

have a delay option. Dusk to dusk+2 or to dusk +4 is switchable.

Peter B wrote:

I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the house
that run off a photocell and burn away through the night, lighting up
half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

Rationalise what they are.

Some lights should be on switches - say on the back door to garage run -
so you put them on and off as needed. No nuisance PIR trips at night; no
stumbling out in the dark waving hands around to get them to come on.

Lights at the front/driveway on PIRs that'll be triggered by actual
activity crossing the perimiter.

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 02/02/2011 10:22, Peter B wrote:
I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the house
that run off a photocell and burn away through the night, lighting up
half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

I'm trying to work out how I can make this better by either;

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

b) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell to achieve a) but that
switches over to a PIR sensor once the initial 3 hours (or however long
I set) has passed

Suggestions appreciated as to what the "thing" might be and where it
could be purchased (for less than the cost of the power consumed by said
lights).

You can buy light controllers that start at dusk and run for a
switchable number of hours.

http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/photo...er-p-1320.html

Alternatively, run the photocell output through the contacts of a
timeswitch that is set to switch on well before dusk and off whenever
you want. This would also allow you to switch the lights on at a preset
time in the morning, if it was still dark.

Colin Bignell

Peter B :
I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the
house that run off a photocell and burn away through the night,
lighting up half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

I'm trying to work out how I can make this better by either;

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

b) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell to achieve a) but
that switches over to a PIR sensor once the initial 3 hours (or however
long I set) has passed

Suggestions appreciated as to what the "thing" might be and where it
could be purchased (for less than the cost of the power consumed by
said lights).

Are you sure you want a fixed number of hours rather than a fixed 'off'
time?

As to what 'thing' you want, it would be helpful to know how the mains
reaches the photocell and the lamps.

--
Mike Barnes

Scott M wrote:
Peter B wrote:

I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the
house that run off a photocell and burn away through the night,
lighting up half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

Rationalise what they are.

Some lights should be on switches - say on the back door to garage
run - so you put them on and off as needed. No nuisance PIR trips at
night; no stumbling out in the dark waving hands around to get them
to come on.
Lights at the front/driveway on PIRs that'll be triggered by actual
activity crossing the perimiter.

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

People use dusk till dawns because PIRs are usually ****e.

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Scott M wrote:
Peter B wrote:

I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of
the
house that run off a photocell and burn away through the night,
lighting up half the county for nobody's benefit (other than
e-on).

Rationalise what they are.

Some lights should be on switches - say on the back door to garage
run - so you put them on and off as needed. No nuisance PIR trips
at
night; no stumbling out in the dark waving hands around to get
them
to come on.
Lights at the front/driveway on PIRs that'll be triggered by
actual
activity crossing the perimiter.

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

People use dusk till dawns because PIRs are usually ****e.

--
Adam



I use dusk til dawn sensors and a timer in series, so they are not all
on all night. In addition there are pirs at strategic points round the
farm buildings & house. (20 pirs and 15 fixed lights at the last
count!)

AWEM

On 02/02/2011 17:40, ARWadsworth wrote:
Scott wrote:
Peter B wrote:

I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the
house that run off a photocell and burn away through the night,
lighting up half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

Rationalise what they are.

Some lights should be on switches - say on the back door to garage
run - so you put them on and off as needed. No nuisance PIR trips at
night; no stumbling out in the dark waving hands around to get them
to come on.
Lights at the front/driveway on PIRs that'll be triggered by actual
activity crossing the perimiter.

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

People use dusk till dawns because PIRs are usually ****e.


Exactly my view. In 25 years I've gone through about a dozen of the
useless objects. Changed over to dawn/dusk with low enegry lamps & not
a single problem since.

I will not supply & fit PIR lights. If the client buys one I will fit
it - that way I don't have to sod about with warranty.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 02/02/2011 17:40, ARWadsworth wrote:
Scott wrote:
Peter B wrote:

I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the
house that run off a photocell and burn away through the night,
lighting up half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

Rationalise what they are.

Some lights should be on switches - say on the back door to garage
run - so you put them on and off as needed. No nuisance PIR trips at
night; no stumbling out in the dark waving hands around to get them
to come on.
Lights at the front/driveway on PIRs that'll be triggered by actual
activity crossing the perimiter.

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

People use dusk till dawns because PIRs are usually ****e.


Exactly my view. In 25 years I've gone through about a dozen of the
useless objects. Changed over to dawn/dusk with low enegry lamps &
not a single problem since.

I will not supply & fit PIR lights. If the client buys one I will fit
it - that way I don't have to sod about with warranty.

I'll fit the standalone PIRs. However the £6.99 B&Q 500W Halogen floodlights
with a built in PIR are a no go unless the customer wants to forget the
warranty.

--
Adam

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

People use dusk till dawns because PIRs are usually ****e.


Exactly my view. In 25 years I've gone through about a dozen of the
useless objects.

Actually, I agree. The bloody things often go short-sighted. Never quite
worked out why (cleaned out the innards, etc) unless the sensor has a
limited life.

But I favour them (or switches) over dawn-to-dusk! :-)

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On Feb 2, 11:46*am, Scott M wrote:

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

I have three dusk-til-dawn lights at the back of the house for
security. I live in inner London in an area of high crime. The back of
the house is quite easy to get to and would be very dark without the
lights. It's overlooked by a block of flats. Guessing the psychology
of burglars is always going to be hit-and-miss, but I guess they would
rather not be trying to force doors and windows whilst illuminated and
in full view of lots of other windows. Even if the PIR things work it
seems to be very easy to me to hop into the garden, trigger them, and
then wait patiently for them to go off before doing anything dodgy.
(In fact just moving very slowly seems to fool PIR sensors). My three
lights burn a total of 21w between them, which I regard as pretty much
negligible anyway.

PS In many years I have never had contents insurance (which is another
story altogether), but I think the savings from this justify a few
pence a month on dusk-til-dawn lighting!

John Rumm wrote:

I will not supply & fit PIR lights. If the client buys one I will fit it
- that way I don't have to sod about with warranty.

Standalone PIRs seem much better IME.

ding

Forgot that in my other posts. Yes, the stand-alone ones I've never had
problems with. The inbuilt ones (actually inbuilt rather than hanging
below a floodlight) don't last 5 minutes.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

I will not supply & fit PIR lights. If the client buys one I will
fit it
- that way I don't have to sod about with warranty.

Standalone PIRs seem much better IME.

ding

Forgot that in my other posts. Yes, the stand-alone ones I've never
had
problems with. The inbuilt ones (actually inbuilt rather than
hanging
below a floodlight) don't last 5 minutes.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

The ones hanging below can cause problems as well. I've had two now
fill up with rainwater and go into permanently on mode. In fairness
they are on an exposed gable end of a barn that gets all the weather.
I silicone seal the glands on ones I put in now but even that's not
infalable.

AWEM

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I've never understood the dusk-to-dawn thing for house lighting.

People use dusk till dawns because PIRs are usually ****e.


Exactly my view. In 25 years I've gone through about a dozen of the
useless objects.

Actually, I agree. The bloody things often go short-sighted. Never quite
worked out why (cleaned out the innards, etc) unless the sensor has a
limited life.

But I favour them (or switches) over dawn-to-dusk! :-)


It depends where the PIR aims. There are thousands of people attatching PIRs
to the front of the house hoping to light the path up when a visitor walks
down the path. Of course the PIR then picks up passing cars and for some
reason (the reason is because they are cheap to buy) the owner usually has
500W of halogen lighting aiming halfway across the street. 20W of low energy
lighting on a dusk till dawn (or a dusk till midnight) light will often
suffice.

--
Adam

I've tried a couple of PIR lamps wired with another supply in parallel
with the sensor. Both PIR semsors failed as soon as they were switched
on. Do these things object to reverse voltage?

John

"John" wrote in message
...
I've tried a couple of PIR lamps wired with another supply in parallel
with the sensor. Both PIR semsors failed as soon as they were switched
on. Do these things object to reverse voltage?

They should not fail like that. Wiring two or more PIRs in parallel should
be fine.

--
Adam

On 02/02/2011 11:26, ARWadsworth wrote:

I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the
house that run off a photocell and burn away through the night,
lighting up half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

The discussion has set off apace whilst I stepped out for a minute - all
contributions gratefully received and digested folks.

You have a number of options.

http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/newlec-photocell-kit-pt-photodiode-switch-on-70-lux-switch-off-105-lux/1052044984/ProductInformation.raction
is a photocell that switches off at midnight and back on at 5.30am.

Sounds like the sort of thing I was thinking of.

You have not said what
the power of your outside lights are so I do not know if they are costing
more than a new photocell.

It's a run of four 2D 20W lamps plus a "normal" lamp over the doorway,
fed from a spur to the photocell to the lamps, if memory serves
correctly. OK, so it's only 100W or so, but once I'm home and in for the
night they don't really serve any purpose. The cost bit was probably a
little flippant sorry, I just didn't want any suggestions for complex
bits of kit costing a hundred quid or more.

The trouble with just having the lights stay on for 3 hours after sunset is
that in the winter the lights will go out at 8pm and in the summer they will
go out at midnight .

Granted, it's more of a time + light level equation than simply either
or. Having thought about it, prompted by the bundle of suggestions, it
might behoove me to arrange the lights differently so that the 2D lamps
are on (photocell + timer) and the lamp over the door is just on a
standalone PIR. That should give me a workable solution ... I think.

--
Cheers, Pete

On 02/02/2011 15:28, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 02/02/2011 10:22, Peter B wrote:
I've got a number of outside lights round the back and side of the house
that run off a photocell and burn away through the night, lighting up
half the county for nobody's benefit (other than e-on).

I'm trying to work out how I can make this better by either;

a) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell that only allows the
lights to run for say 3 hours after dusk

b) putting "a thing" in series with the photocell to achieve a) but that
switches over to a PIR sensor once the initial 3 hours (or however long
I set) has passed

Suggestions appreciated as to what the "thing" might be and where it
could be purchased (for less than the cost of the power consumed by said
lights).

You can buy light controllers that start at dusk and run for a
switchable number of hours.

http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/photo...er-p-1320.html

Alternatively, run the photocell output through the contacts of a
timeswitch that is set to switch on well before dusk and off whenever
you want. This would also allow you to switch the lights on at a preset
time in the morning, if it was still dark.

Colin Bignell
Or
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/STNM3000B.html

I use one of these in my yard light , comes on at dusk goes off at more
or less the same time throughout the year.