Hi folks
In order to trade at the local markets, I have to carry Public Liability
insurance (6.5 million euro! g)

Insurance renewal time is coming up again - and one insurer was offering
me 'premises' insurance for the stained-glass studio
(12ft x 24ft timber building just outside the back door).

Never had that insured before, but it started me thinking.
in addition to a good few thousand euro worth of stock, machiner and raw
materials, said shed does also include a kiln, and the groundsource
heat-pump that heats the house. All-in-all - a fair bit of cash to
replace all of this.... and, as theft isn't really an issue out here, I
guess fire is the major risk.

We have a couple of linked fire alarms inside the house - what's
involved in setting up some sort of similar alarm in the studio -
presumably linked into the existing ??
It's not a technology that I'm familiar with - so any suggestions please?

Thanks
Adrian

On 28/01/2011 14:24, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Hi folks
In order to trade at the local markets, I have to carry Public Liability
insurance (6.5 million euro! g)

Insurance renewal time is coming up again - and one insurer was offering
me 'premises' insurance for the stained-glass studio
(12ft x 24ft timber building just outside the back door).

Never had that insured before, but it started me thinking.
in addition to a good few thousand euro worth of stock, machiner and raw
materials, said shed does also include a kiln, and the groundsource
heat-pump that heats the house. All-in-all - a fair bit of cash to
replace all of this.... and, as theft isn't really an issue out here, I
guess fire is the major risk.

We have a couple of linked fire alarms inside the house - what's
involved in setting up some sort of similar alarm in the studio -
presumably linked into the existing ??
It's not a technology that I'm familiar with - so any suggestions please?

If the insurer requires a fire alarm, they will have a specification
that you have to meet.

If it is for your own peace of mind, then check to see whether the ones
you have use a radio link. If, as is quite likely, they do you just need
to add a compatible detector in the studio.

Colin Bignell

On Jan 28, 2:24*pm, Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Never had that insured before, but it started me thinking.
in addition to a good few thousand euro worth of stock, machiner and raw
materials, said shed does also include a kiln,

My workshop insurer got very uninterested in insuring my workshop when
it acquired a glass kiln!

I need burglary insurance on my workshop, and especially when tools
are out of the workshop - mostly when they're in a friend's workshop
in a _delightful_ neighbourhood of Bristol. I just can't afford to
insure it against my own risk though - premiums are crazier, relative
to capital value, than for pushbike insurance.

In practice, I just segregate. Hot metal is done in a shed full of
fireproof metal, no-one in the woodwork shop full of sawdust is
allowed to know the secret of fire. My own alarms are just a cheap
burglar panel from TLC, with zones for fire.

On 28/01/2011 14:56, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 28/01/2011 14:24, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Hi folks
In order to trade at the local markets, I have to carry Public Liability
insurance (6.5 million euro! g)

Insurance renewal time is coming up again - and one insurer was offering
me 'premises' insurance for the stained-glass studio
(12ft x 24ft timber building just outside the back door).

Never had that insured before, but it started me thinking.
in addition to a good few thousand euro worth of stock, machiner and raw
materials, said shed does also include a kiln, and the groundsource
heat-pump that heats the house. All-in-all - a fair bit of cash to
replace all of this.... and, as theft isn't really an issue out here, I
guess fire is the major risk.

We have a couple of linked fire alarms inside the house - what's
involved in setting up some sort of similar alarm in the studio -
presumably linked into the existing ??
It's not a technology that I'm familiar with - so any suggestions please?

If the insurer requires a fire alarm, they will have a specification
that you have to meet.

If it is for your own peace of mind, then check to see whether the ones
you have use a radio link. If, as is quite likely, they do you just need
to add a compatible detector in the studio.

No - no insurance requirement - just 'peace of mind'.
The current alarms are hard-wired and linkable,
http://www.aico.co.uk/dmdocuments/ei141%20datasheet.pdf
and there's one just by the back door, where there are also other power
& data cables running out to the studio.

Presumably it's wise to get another identical alarm for the studio -
rather than hoping that a different manufacturer's alarm uses the same
link arrangements ?

Thanks
Adrian

HI Andy

On 28/01/2011 15:07, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Jan 28, 2:24 pm, Adrian wrote:

Never had that insured before, but it started me thinking.
in addition to a good few thousand euro worth of stock, machiner and raw
materials, said shed does also include a kiln,

My workshop insurer got very uninterested in insuring my workshop when
it acquired a glass kiln!

Well - they've not specifically mentioned it - but I guess it'd be wise
to state it on the proposal g


I need burglary insurance on my workshop, and especially when tools
are out of the workshop - mostly when they're in a friend's workshop
in a _delightful_ neighbourhood of Bristol.

As I say - luckily not an issue out here in the wild south-west of Ireland

I just can't afford to
insure it against my own risk though - premiums are crazier, relative
to capital value, than for pushbike insurance.

In practice, I just segregate. Hot metal is done in a shed full of
fireproof metal, no-one in the woodwork shop full of sawdust is
allowed to know the secret of fire. My own alarms are just a cheap
burglar panel from TLC, with zones for fire.

Fair enough.
Don;t think I need anything that complex - just a sensor / link to say -
"hey, wake up, the studio's on fire....."

Thanks
Adrian

On 28/01/2011 16:49, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
....
No - no insurance requirement - just 'peace of mind'.
The current alarms are hard-wired and linkable,
http://www.aico.co.uk/dmdocuments/ei141%20datasheet.pdf
and there's one just by the back door, where there are also other power
& data cables running out to the studio.

Should be fairly easy to link another in then.

Presumably it's wise to get another identical alarm for the studio -
rather than hoping that a different manufacturer's alarm uses the same
link arrangements ?

It certainly would be safer to buy the same make and model. Others may
work, but you know the same type will work.

Colin Bignell

[Default] On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:24:01 +0000, a certain chimpanzee,
Adrian Brentnall , randomly hit the keyboard
and wrote:

Insurance renewal time is coming up again - and one insurer was offering
me 'premises' insurance for the stained-glass studio
(12ft x 24ft timber building just outside the back door).

Never had that insured before, but it started me thinking.
in addition to a good few thousand euro worth of stock, machiner and raw
materials, said shed does also include a kiln, and the groundsource
heat-pump that heats the house. All-in-all - a fair bit of cash to
replace all of this.... and, as theft isn't really an issue out here, I
guess fire is the major risk.

We have a couple of linked fire alarms inside the house - what's
involved in setting up some sort of similar alarm in the studio -
presumably linked into the existing ??

For property protection, it depends what you can achieve by being
alerted earlier. Can you tackle the fire unaided? Would calling the
Fire Brigade sooner reduce the damage? I suspect, unless the fire is a
slow-burning smouldering fire, the answer to both would be no. All the
Fire Brigade would do if there was no-one inside would be to point
their hoses at it.

The most suitable detector for a smouldering fire is an optical smoke
detector. However these are more susceptible to being triggered by
steam and dust. You might consider a heat detector, but, again, these
may be triggered by the heat from the kiln.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

On Jan 29, 10:49*am, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:

For property protection, it depends what you can achieve by being
alerted earlier. Can you tackle the fire unaided?

I've got three things in my workshop: metals that won't burn whatever
you do, solvents that wil flash over before you're out the dooor, and
timber that will smoulder slowly for quite some time.

So time really is of the essence. If it's not already a question of
"Run!", then it's a timber fire, and that's best dealt with by me
while it's still a small fire, before it's a big fire.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:49:58 +0000, Hugo Nebula wrote:

For property protection, it depends what you can achieve by being
alerted earlier. Can you tackle the fire unaided? Would calling the
Fire Brigade sooner reduce the damage?

Another factor in that is how long it will take the Fire Brigade to
respond. We have single appliance in town, with retained firemen,
some of whom would have to drive past us to get to the pump to come
back out... I reckon that if the appliance was here squirting water
within ten minutes of being called it would be doing very well. In
ten minutes even a small fire could be a big one:

Property Fire (Eden) 21 May 2010

At 0358 hours on Friday, 21st May 2010, 4 appliances (1 from Alston,
2 from Penrith,1 from Lazonby and 1 from Brampton), the Water Bowser
from Penrith, Watch Manager Kevin Johnston ,Station Managers Craig
Drinkald and COnrad Leather attended reports of a property fire just
south of Garrigill, near Alston. Fire involved the roof and first
floor of a 2 storey farmhouse measuring 9 metres by 9 metres and was
well alight on arrival. The fire was tackled using 8 breathing
apparatus,2 hosereels, one main jet, various ladders, small
tools,thermal image camera and a height safety pack. Detectors were
fitted at this property by CFRS and raised the alarm to the
occupants. Crews returned to home station at 1301 hrs.

Note that the place had smoke detectors so one assumes the brigade
would have been called PDQ. The appliances from anywhere other than
Alston would are not far short of an hour away...

I suspect, unless the fire is a slow-burning smouldering fire, the
answer to both would be no. All the Fire Brigade would do if there was
no-one inside would be to point their hoses at it.

Even the small hose reel can lay down a considerable amount of water,
far more than yer average garden hose. Not for long though with only
about 1000l of water on board.

You might consider a heat detector, but, again, these may be triggered
by the heat from the kiln.

Thought they were delta T sensors rather than absolute T. Would make
sense to have both though with the absolute being something "silly"
like 80C.

--
Cheers
Dave.