i got a desk lamp from ebay like the one in the image link below. the
bulb is held up by two adjustable telescopic rods, exactly the same
type as you would find on the aerial of a FM radio. they are metal.

i saw the double insulated symbol on the bottom, which go me thinking.
how did they get the wiring through these rods double insulated, they
are pretty thin. then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?



http://www.flickr.com/photos/31506127@N03/3033028166

On Dec 11, 2:13*pm, s wrote:
i got a desk lamp from ebay like the one in the image link below. the
bulb is held up by two adjustable telescopic rods, exactly the same
type as you would find on the aerial of a FM radio. they are metal.

i saw the double insulated symbol on the bottom, which go me thinking.
how did they get the wiring through these rods double insulated, they
are pretty thin. then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. *thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31506127@N03/3033028166

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_insulated#Class_II

On Dec 11, 2:13*pm, s wrote:
i got a desk lamp from ebay like the one in the image link below. the
bulb is held up by two adjustable telescopic rods, exactly the same
type as you would find on the aerial of a FM radio. they are metal.

i saw the double insulated symbol on the bottom, which go me thinking.
how did they get the wiring through these rods double insulated, they
are pretty thin. then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. *thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31506127@N03/3033028166

I has a transformer so is unconnected to the mains. The transformer
may well have additional insulation tapes on the armature as well.

On Dec 11, 2:13*pm, s wrote:
i got a desk lamp from ebay like the one in the image link below. the
bulb is held up by two adjustable telescopic rods, exactly the same
type as you would find on the aerial of a FM radio. they are metal.

i saw the double insulated symbol on the bottom, which go me thinking.
how did they get the wiring through these rods double insulated, they
are pretty thin. then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. *thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31506127@N03/3033028166

why not

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember s saying
something like:

then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

Howly Shiet!

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

Hewly Shoeti!

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

By forgery, dear boy, exactly the same as the 'CE' mark on some Chinese
goods - never been approved by anyone.

Do the rest of us a favour - if it was a UK seller, report him to
Trading Standards and it might prevent some sucker being dead. This kind
of utterly irresponsible 'design' should be stamped out with extreme
prejudice.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember s saying
something like:

then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

Howly Shiet!

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

Hewly Shoeti!

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

By forgery, dear boy, exactly the same as the 'CE' mark on some Chinese
goods - never been approved by anyone.

Do the rest of us a favour - if it was a UK seller, report him to
Trading Standards and it might prevent some sucker being dead. This kind
of utterly irresponsible 'design' should be stamped out with extreme
prejudice.






20 V is not dangerous:

The basic requirement is that no single failure can result in dangerous
voltage becoming exposed so that it might cause an electric shock and that
this is achieved without relying on an earthed metal casing. This is usually
achieved at least in part by having two layers of insulating material
surrounding live parts or by using reinforced insulation. (Wikipedia)

On Dec 12, 7:02 am, "John" wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message

...



We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember s saying
something like:

then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

Howly Shiet!

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

Hewly Shoeti!

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

By forgery, dear boy, exactly the same as the 'CE' mark on some Chinese
goods - never been approved by anyone.

Do the rest of us a favour - if it was a UK seller, report him to
Trading Standards and it might prevent some sucker being dead. This kind
of utterly irresponsible 'design' should be stamped out with extreme
prejudice.

20 V is not dangerous:

The basic requirement is that no single failure can result in dangerous
voltage becoming exposed so that it might cause an electric shock and that
this is achieved without relying on an earthed metal casing. This is usually
achieved at least in part by having two layers of insulating material
surrounding live parts or by using reinforced insulation. (Wikipedia)

It looks like it would make an excellent holder for my metal-framed
glasses. Would that be OK or would the frame melt with lots of sparks?

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 18:02:14 -0000, "John" wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember s saying
something like:

then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

Howly Shiet!

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

Hewly Shoeti!

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

By forgery, dear boy, exactly the same as the 'CE' mark on some Chinese
goods - never been approved by anyone.

Do the rest of us a favour - if it was a UK seller, report him to
Trading Standards and it might prevent some sucker being dead. This kind
of utterly irresponsible 'design' should be stamped out with extreme
prejudice.






20 V is not dangerous:

The basic requirement is that no single failure can result in dangerous
voltage becoming exposed so that it might cause an electric shock and that
this is achieved without relying on an earthed metal casing. This is usually
achieved at least in part by having two layers of insulating material
surrounding live parts or by using reinforced insulation. (Wikipedia)


Having said that, exposed DC conductors on a desk lamp are not without hazard.
Suppose you had a lump of wire wool on the desk which happened to come into contact...
Even an errant paperclip could plausibly start a fire.

In article ,
Mike Harrison wrote:
Having said that, exposed DC conductors on a desk lamp are not without
hazard. Suppose you had a lump of wire wool on the desk which happened
to come into contact... Even an errant paperclip could plausibly start a
fire.

Ever heard of fuses? The transformer (if it is a transformer) will include
a thermal fuse which will blow long before a paperclip would get hot
enough to start a fire.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember s saying
something like:

then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

Howly Shiet!

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

Hewly Shoeti!

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

By forgery, dear boy, exactly the same as the 'CE' mark on some Chinese
goods - never been approved by anyone.

Do the rest of us a favour - if it was a UK seller, report him to
Trading Standards and it might prevent some sucker being dead. This kind
of utterly irresponsible 'design' should be stamped out with extreme
prejudice.

Are you being serious? I genuinely can't tell.
If so, you should take a good hard look at your (grand)children's train set or
Scalextric.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Graham." saying
something like:

Are you being serious? I genuinely can't tell.

I most certainly was in the first instance as I'd misread the 20V as
240V for some reason.
After that, I continued for effect in a post-ironic sort of way, to
counterpoint the essential weakness of the human condition as opposed to
the ... blah snore.
Has my Art Grant arrived yet?

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 18:43:08 -0000, "Graham." wrote:


"
Howly Shiet!

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

Hewly Shoeti!

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

By forgery, dear boy, exactly the same as the 'CE' mark on some Chinese
goods - never been approved by anyone.

Do the rest of us a favour - if it was a UK seller, report him to
Trading Standards and it might prevent some sucker being dead. This kind
of utterly irresponsible 'design' should be stamped out with extreme
prejudice.

Are you being serious? I genuinely can't tell.
If so, you should take a good hard look at your (grand)children's train set or
Scalextric.

If on the other hand it was an early Hornby that may have belonged to
your Father or Grandfather then some caution would be advised.
Their first forays into electric powered ones in 1925 used mains
voltage*,appropriately it represented a Metropolitan Electric Loco.
Safer lower voltage ones were introduced a year or so later.
Back then I suppose such things were too expensive for ordinary folk
and were expected to used under the supervision of Nannies etc.

* which of course varied a fair bit depending on the supplier back
then.

G.Harman

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 20:29:56 +0000, wrote:


Back then I suppose such things were too expensive for ordinary folk
and were expected to used under the supervision of Nannies etc.

The Nanny State?

--
Frank Erskine

On 11/12/2010 14:13, s wrote:
i got a desk lamp from ebay like the one in the image link below. the
bulb is held up by two adjustable telescopic rods, exactly the same
type as you would find on the aerial of a FM radio. they are metal.

i saw the double insulated symbol on the bottom, which go me thinking.
how did they get the wiring through these rods double insulated, they
are pretty thin. then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?



http://www.flickr.com/photos/31506127@N03/3033028166



I have one of these, got it from Argos, I think. SWMBO got a fright
when she draped a gold chain over it whilst doing makeup in the mirror
with the light. Didn't half spark.

--
Regards
Camdor.

On Dec 13, 8:09 am, Camdor wrote:
On 11/12/2010 14:13, s wrote:



i got a desk lamp from ebay like the one in the image link below. the
bulb is held up by two adjustable telescopic rods, exactly the same
type as you would find on the aerial of a FM radio. they are metal.

i saw the double insulated symbol on the bottom, which go me thinking.
how did they get the wiring through these rods double insulated, they
are pretty thin. then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
conductors.

a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
to light the bulb .

my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
with exposed 20V AC conductors?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31506127@N03/3033028166

I have one of these, got it from Argos, I think. SWMBO got a fright
when she draped a gold chain over it whilst doing makeup in the mirror
with the light. Didn't half spark.

So the thermal fuse didn't work properly then, or wasn't there one?

On Dec 12, 8:45*pm, Matty F wrote:
I have one of these, got it from Argos, I think. *SWMBO got a fright
when she draped a gold chain over it whilst doing makeup in the mirror
with the light. *Didn't half spark.

So the thermal fuse didn't work properly then, or wasn't there one?

The transformer core is small enough to limit the output current. It's
so small it runs close that to saturation and the transformer gets
warmer than a well-designed transformer for this low power ought to.
Although there is (if it's like mine) a thermal fuse in the
transformer, there's no over-current fuse on the output.

I've used one of these as the housing for a Jacob's Ladder. It looks
best when the audience of punters isn't expecting it to start arcing
across 8-) Unfortunately there's so little use for a Jacob's Ladder
these days, as they're so hideously noisy for RF they clobber every PA
system in the vicinity. Much worse that Teslas or Wimshursts.

On Dec 13, 10:43 am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Dec 12, 8:45 pm, Matty F wrote:

I have one of these, got it from Argos, I think. SWMBO got a fright
when she draped a gold chain over it whilst doing makeup in the mirror
with the light. Didn't half spark.

So the thermal fuse didn't work properly then, or wasn't there one?

The transformer core is small enough to limit the output current. It's
so small it runs close that to saturation and the transformer gets
warmer than a well-designed transformer for this low power ought to.
Although there is (if it's like mine) a thermal fuse in the
transformer, there's no over-current fuse on the output.

I've used one of these as the housing for a Jacob's Ladder. It looks
best when the audience of punters isn't expecting it to start arcing
across 8-) Unfortunately there's so little use for a Jacob's Ladder
these days, as they're so hideously noisy for RF they clobber every PA
system in the vicinity. Much worse that Teslas or Wimshursts.

If I have a wire cage around my proposed Jacob's Ladder that should
help shouldn't it?

On Dec 12, 10:05*pm, Matty F wrote:

I've used one of these as the housing for a Jacob's Ladder. It looks
best when the audience of punters isn't expecting it to start arcing
across 8-) * Unfortunately there's so little use for a Jacob's Ladder
these days, as they're so hideously noisy for RF they clobber every PA
system in the vicinity. Much worse that Teslas or Wimshursts.

If I have a wire cage around my proposed Jacob's Ladder that should
help shouldn't it?

Not much. This is why Teslas and even Wimshursts are easier. They're
resonant circuits (at least Wimshursts with Leyden jars are), so they
dump most of their energy into a narrow frequency band. Stop this and
you stop their interference. Jacob's Ladders (and rotary spark gaps
for Teslas) are brute force broadband devices. You have to stop their
interference across a much broader band to stop them.