A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R plate
Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch? or do you
go in from the inside?

TIA

On 23/11/2010 21:54, newshound wrote:
A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R
plate Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch?
or do you go in from the inside?

Which solenoid?

"newshound" wrote in message
...
A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R plate
Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch? or do you
go in from the inside?

TIA

If you mean the starter solenoid it is normally attached to the starter
motor

I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to function
apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by relays

Ah just found your post in uk car maintenance

the clue is in the subject there

'Filler cap'

Quote from a 2005 post in google 'it seems to fit into some slotted holes on
a panel behind the plastic trim'

"TMC" wrote in message ...
Ah just found your post in uk car maintenance

the clue is in the subject there

'Filler cap'

Quote from a 2005 post in google 'it seems to fit into some slotted holes on a panel behind the plastic trim'

Oh, the *filler cap* solenoid? I guess we all knew he meant that ;-)


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

In article ,
TMC wrote:
I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done
by relays

Central locking more commonly uses motors. They're more efficient than a
solenoid - and probably cheaper to make. Only solenoid I can think of is
in a pre-engage starter motor.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TMC wrote:
I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done
by relays

Central locking more commonly uses motors. They're more efficient than a
solenoid - and probably cheaper to make. Only solenoid I can think of is
in a pre-engage starter motor.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Graham." wrote in message
...
"TMC" wrote in message
...
Ah just found your post in uk car maintenance

the clue is in the subject there

'Filler cap'

Quote from a 2005 post in google 'it seems to fit into some slotted holes
on a panel behind the plastic trim'

Oh, the *filler cap* solenoid? I guess we all knew he meant that ;-)


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Well spotted, I feel a right prat now!

On 23/11/10 23:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done
by relays

Central locking more commonly uses motors. They're more efficient than a
solenoid - and probably cheaper to make. Only solenoid I can think of is
in a pre-engage starter motor.


There's various solenoid valves dotted around as well. Idle speed
control, EGR, carbon cannister purge, that kind of thing but, as you
say, the only one people seem to just refer to as a "solenoid" is the
one on the starter. I always thought it annoying that people referred to
the starter relay in cars with inertia starters as "the solenoid" too.

Cheers,

Colin.

In article ,
newshound wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TMC wrote:
[snip quotation only]

New at all this? ;-)

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

TMC wrote:

"newshound" wrote in message
...
A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R
plate Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel
arch? or do you go in from the inside?

TIA

If you mean the starter solenoid it is normally attached to the
starter motor

I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by
relays

starter motor contactor often referred to as a solenoid

On 2010-11-23 21:54:32 +0000, newshound said:

A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R
plate Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch?
or do you go in from the inside?

TIA


So we know now that there's a problem with the filler cap. I had a
problem with the filler cap on my V reg Golf, which is presumably very
similar. The motor (don't believe it's a solenoid) controlling the
filler cap release had got stuck, and I needed to remove, dismantle,
and then rebuild then mechanism to get it to work again.

It's located to the rear of the filler cap. On the gold you get in
(from memory) by:
- removing the trip from the inside of the boot (below the opening,
the trim "facing" the front of the car
- removing the trim on the RHS wall of the boot (where the filler cap
is), all the way to the roof
- the mechanism is screwed in place in a rather hard to get place
within the bodywork.

You'll probably find some photos if you google hard - here's a useful
thread (but without photos):

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/183857/...7.aspx#1203067

Note that this link suggests bying a new mechanism.

On Nov 23, 9:54*pm, "newshound" wrote:
A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R plate
Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch? or do you
go in from the inside?

TIA

Most cars these days have a pre-engaged starter motor. Instead of the
starter flinging itself into mesh with the lfywheel ring when
twirling, there is a solenoid on the starter motor that slides the
armature of the motor into mesh and than connects the thing to the
battery. So the solenoid is on the motor itself. as are the main
contacts. There is a lot less wear &tear with this method than the old
way

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by
relays

starter motor contactor often referred to as a solenoid

It might well wrongly be, but only pre-engage starters have a solenoid. To
engage the pinion before the power is applied. That solenoid is usually
switched by a relay. I've never heard a car relay referred to as a
contractor. That term is usually applied to high power AC devices.

--
*Starfishes have no brains *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
Central locking more commonly uses motors. They're more efficient than
a solenoid - and probably cheaper to make. Only solenoid I can think
of is in a pre-engage starter motor.


There's various solenoid valves dotted around as well. Idle speed
control, EGR, carbon cannister purge, that kind of thing but, as you
say, the only one people seem to just refer to as a "solenoid" is the
one on the starter. I always thought it annoying that people referred to
the starter relay in cars with inertia starters as "the solenoid" too.

Ah - forgot those. Although idle control is often a stepper motor these
days.

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/11/2010 09:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by
relays

starter motor contactor often referred to as a solenoid

It might well wrongly be, but only pre-engage starters have a solenoid. To
engage the pinion before the power is applied. That solenoid is usually
switched by a relay. I've never heard a car relay referred to as a
contractor. That term is usually applied to high power AC devices.

Of the three terms solenoid, contactor and relay solenoid seems the only
one that has anything close to a precise meaning. Collins dictionary for
instance defines contactor as: "a type of switch for repeatedly opening
and and closing an electric circuit. Its operation can be mechanical,
electromagnetic or pneumatic." Air blast circuit breaker?

So a contactor could contain a solenoid as could a relay according to
its entry in Collins.

Part of the entry for solenoid states: "such a device used as a relay,
as in a motor vehicle for connecting the battery directly to the starter
motor when activated the ignition switch.

On Nov 24, 10:32*am, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 24/11/2010 09:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by
relays

starter motor contactor often referred to as a solenoid

It might well wrongly be, but only pre-engage starters have a solenoid. To
engage the pinion before the power is applied. That solenoid is usually
switched by a relay. I've never heard a car relay referred to as a
contractor. That term is usually applied to high power AC devices.

Of the three terms solenoid, contactor and relay solenoid seems the only
one that has anything close to a precise meaning. Collins dictionary for
instance defines contactor as: "a type of switch for repeatedly opening
and and closing an electric circuit. Its operation can be mechanical,
electromagnetic or pneumatic." Air blast circuit breaker?

So a contactor could contain a solenoid as could a relay according to
its entry in Collins.

Part of the entry for solenoid states: "such a device used as a relay,
as in a motor vehicle for connecting the battery directly to the starter
motor when activated the ignition switch.

It's a historical thing. They are all the same really. Just from
different branches of science.

In article ,
Roger Chapman wrote:
Of the three terms solenoid, contactor and relay solenoid seems the only
one that has anything close to a precise meaning. Collins dictionary for
instance defines contactor as: "a type of switch for repeatedly opening
and and closing an electric circuit. Its operation can be mechanical,
electromagnetic or pneumatic." Air blast circuit breaker?

So a contactor could contain a solenoid as could a relay according to
its entry in Collins.

Part of the entry for solenoid states: "such a device used as a relay,
as in a motor vehicle for connecting the battery directly to the starter
motor when activated the ignition switch.

Dictionaries are rarely much use for technical terms.

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/11/2010 16:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Dictionaries are rarely much use for technical terms.

They might be a bit vague on occasion but in my experience rarely
completely wrong.

To me a contactor was a heavy duty switch for industrial sized workshop
machinery. I would never of thought of National Grid switchgear as
contactors although the definition I quoted surely covers them as well
as a multitude of other stuff and a relay is a combination of solenoid
and contacts which did fit the definition pretty exactly.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by
relays

starter motor contactor often referred to as a solenoid

It might well wrongly be, but only pre-engage starters have a solenoid. To
engage the pinion before the power is applied. That solenoid is usually
switched by a relay. I've never heard a car relay referred to as a
contractor. That term is usually applied to high power AC devices.

No, it's a contactor.

High power any device in my experience.

Roger Chapman wrote:
On 24/11/2010 16:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Dictionaries are rarely much use for technical terms.

They might be a bit vague on occasion but in my experience rarely
completely wrong.

To me a contactor was a heavy duty switch for industrial sized workshop
machinery. I would never of thought of National Grid switchgear as
contactors although the definition I quoted surely covers them as well
as a multitude of other stuff and a relay is a combination of solenoid
and contacts which did fit the definition pretty exactly.


Top me a contactor is a heavy duty relay or switch where the contacts
are not generally self wiping slide, but heavy lots of pressure and THUMP.

So we know now that there's a problem with the filler cap. I had a
problem with the filler cap on my V reg Golf, which is presumably very
similar. The motor (don't believe it's a solenoid)

I hadn't thought of that, but on reflection it is perhaps more likely.

controlling the
filler cap release had got stuck, and I needed to remove, dismantle,
and then rebuild then mechanism to get it to work again.


Thanks very much for the helpful advice!

Steve

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to
function apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by
relays

starter motor contactor often referred to as a solenoid

It might well wrongly be, but only pre-engage starters have a solenoid. To
engage the pinion before the power is applied. That solenoid is usually
switched by a relay. I've never heard a car relay referred to as a
contractor.


Are they permies then ?


--
geoff

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Nov 23, 9:54 pm, "newshound" wrote:
A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R
plate
Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch? or do
you
go in from the inside?

TIA

Most cars these days have a pre-engaged starter motor. Instead of the
starter flinging itself into mesh with the lfywheel ring when
twirling, there is a solenoid on the starter motor that slides the
armature of the motor into mesh and than connects the thing to the
battery. So the solenoid is on the motor itself. as are the main
contacts. There is a lot less wear &tear with this method than the old
way

I believe it actually slides the pinion on the shaft, rather than doing
anything to the motor armature - like this ...

http://www.christiani-tvet.com/popup...5912/imagenr/1

Arfa

On Nov 25, 2:09*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...





On Nov 23, 9:54 pm, "newshound" wrote:
A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R
plate
Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch? or do
you
go in from the inside?

TIA

Most cars these days have a pre-engaged starter motor. *Instead of the
starter flinging itself into mesh with the lfywheel ring when
twirling, there is a solenoid on the starter motor that slides the
armature of the motor into mesh and than connects the thing to the
battery. *So the solenoid is on the motor itself. as are the main
contacts. There is a lot less wear &tear with this method than the old
way

I believe it actually slides the pinion on the shaft, rather than doing
anything to the motor armature - *like this ...

http://www.christiani-tvet.com/popup...5912/imagenr/1

Arfa- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The ones I've dismantled slid the whole armature. It only moved an
inch or so. This meant the commutator had to be longer than normal as
the brushes were fixed. But I suppose there's different ideas out
there too. You'd need a keyway or a splined shaft. Probably to get
round design patents.

"TMC" wrote in message
...

"newshound" wrote in message
...
A mate of mine has had the solenoid (perhaps the wiring) fail on an R
plate Polo, does anyone know where it is located? Under the wheel arch? or
do you go in from the inside?

TIA

If you mean the starter solenoid it is normally attached to the starter
motor

I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to function
apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by relays


If it is a diesel, there could be on the fuel supply.

Baz

On 25/11/2010 11:26, Baz wrote:

I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to function
apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by relays

If it is a diesel, there could be on the fuel supply.

Which reminds me back in the dim and distant past I bought a car that
had both worn carburettor jets and a high mounted petrol tank. One day
when not in use the sump filled up with petrol. It turned out that the
car had escaped a service recall to retro fit a solenoid operated petrol
line tap, bizarrely it appeared, because the car had not been registered
until six months or more after it was manufactured which covered the
period in which the potential fault was discovered.

On Nov 25, 12:25*pm, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 25/11/2010 11:26, Baz wrote:

I am not sure what other bits of the car would need a solenoid to function
*apart from the door locks as most indirect swithcing is done by relays

If it is a diesel, there could be on the fuel supply.

Which reminds me back in the dim and distant past I bought a car that
had both worn carburettor jets and a high mounted petrol tank. One day
when not in use the sump filled up with petrol. It turned out that the
car had escaped a service recall to retro fit a solenoid operated petrol
line tap, bizarrely it appeared, because the car had not been registered
until six months or more after it was manufactured which covered the
period in which the potential fault was discovered.

There was a car wiring system mooted in which everything was run off
relays. They were controlled by a signel sent down the "power" lines
that looped round all the realys. I think it was some sort of
multiplexing thing. Never heard any more about it.

Another thing I heard of was inlet and exhaust valves to be of the
solenoid sort. I think that was BMW. There was to be electric water
and oil pumps too. They started up before the engine. Dunno what
happened there either.

In article
,
harry wrote:
There was a car wiring system mooted in which everything was run off
relays. They were controlled by a signel sent down the "power" lines
that looped round all the realys. I think it was some sort of
multiplexing thing. Never heard any more about it.

You've not been keeping up. Variations on this have been in use for a long
time - although mainly on upmarket cars. But not using relays. Electronic
switching.

Another thing I heard of was inlet and exhaust valves to be of the
solenoid sort.

Solenoids wouldn't be fast enough. Valve *timing* is altered by a mixture
of solenoid valves and oil pressure on some cars, though.

I think that was BMW. There was to be electric water
and oil pumps too. They started up before the engine. Dunno what
happened there either.

Electric water pumps exist. I'd not fancy an electric oil pump. The
mechanical type rarely fail.

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)"
saying something like:

I think that was BMW. There was to be electric water
and oil pumps too. They started up before the engine. Dunno what
happened there either.

Electric water pumps exist. I'd not fancy an electric oil pump. The
mechanical type rarely fail.

Electrical pre-start priming pumps are commonplace in some areas.