Any suggestions for a wood construction workshop 4m x 3m size

The workshop is basically a large heavy duty shed with a UPVC door and
UPVC window with no internal insulation.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Barneyrubble/wshop.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions welcome

On 17/11/2010 20:59, Count de Monet wrote:
Any suggestions for a wood construction workshop 4m x 3m size

The workshop is basically a large heavy duty shed with a UPVC door and
UPVC window with no internal insulation.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Barneyrubble/wshop.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions welcome


First insulate. Second, fit a two unit air conditioning plant. Heat
pumps are a particularly efficient way to use electricty to heat with.

Colin Bignell

On Nov 17, 8:59*pm, Count de Monet wrote:
Any suggestions for a wood construction workshop 4m x 3m size

The workshop is basically a large heavy duty shed with a UPVC door and
UPVC window with no internal insulation.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Barneyrubble/wshop.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions welcome

All electric heating is 100% efficient. Insulate insulate insulate.


NT

Tabby wrote:

All electric heating is 100% efficient.

And none of it is low running cost

Insulate insulate insulate.

Yes, but also decide if you want radiant and/or convection heat

On 17/11/10 20:59, Count de Monet wrote:
Any suggestions for a wood construction workshop 4m x 3m size

The workshop is basically a large heavy duty shed with a UPVC door and
UPVC window with no internal insulation.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Barneyrubble/wshop.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions welcome

Without any insulation, the only type that will be remotely efficient
would be infra-red. i.e. try to heat yourself without heating the air.
It works reasonably well if you're doing something fairly active, but
it's a bit crap if you're not moving much.

Why not insulate it though? My shed is a bit over 4m X 2m. It's
insulated all round (including floor and ceiling) with cheapo
polystyrene under plasterboard and it's nicely heat-tight. I put in a
3kW convector for a fast warm-up, but it'll easily maintain a nice cosy
temp on a mid-winter night on the 1kW setting. The room thermostat
barely has it turned on once it's warmed up on most nights.

Cheers,

Colin.

On Nov 17, 10:26*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
Tabby wrote:
All electric heating is 100% efficient.

And none of it is low running cost

Insulate insulate insulate.

Yes, but also decide if you want radiant and/or convection heat

I have to agree with all the comments about Insulation - TLC still
claim to have this on their books, though out of stock currently

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HE2TCHT.html

For a small workshop I reckon this is as good as it comes - fan to
boost and background heat otherwise, and it certainly keeps my 5 X 3m
workshop up to a comfortable temperature.
Rob

On Nov 17, 10:55*pm, robgraham wrote:
On Nov 17, 10:26*pm, Andy Burns wrote:

Tabby wrote:
All electric heating is 100% efficient.

And none of it is low running cost

Insulate insulate insulate.

Yes, but also decide if you want radiant and/or convection heat

I have to agree with all the comments about Insulation - TLC still
claim to have this on their books, though out of stock currently

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HE2TCHT.html

For a small workshop I reckon this is as good as it comes - fan to
boost and background heat otherwise, and it certainly keeps my 5 X 3m
workshop up to a comfortable temperature.
Rob

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ectric_heating

1. Insulate with 50mm Celotex Seconds. Insulate floor, walls &
ceiling. Draught exclusion is absolutely critical. Floor is very
important re "cold calves" which are very uncomfortable.

2. If you have economy-7 metering.
Look on Freecycle or similar for a 1.8-2.5-3.3kW storage heater
(9-12-18-24kWhr). Connect to timer matched to your E7 times, ensure
battery/capacitor backup of timer and decent contacts (Sangamo Digital
Powersaver is £10-25).

3. If you do not have economy-7 metering.
Background heating by 500W frost-heater or dessicant dehumidifier
(some heating, ideal for tools & paper filing cabinets).
On-demand heating by Radiant Heater at the correct height and
clearances (this can catch you out), or 2kW industrial fan heater off
Ebay for about £30.

Insulation is everything unless you are going to be in there only a
few minutes each day.

Running a 2kW fan heater flat-out for 120 days (winter), at 2hrs a
day, at 10p/kWhr = £50 for 480kWhrs.
Running a 2kW fan heater flat-out for 120 days (winter), at 8hrs a
day, at 10p/kWhr = £200 for 2000kWhrs.
Running a 18kWhr storage heater (2.55kW x7) for 120 days (winter) at
5p/kWhr = £108 for 2160hWhrs.

You can see how Economy-7 is useful - if only for background heating.
An Air Source Heat Pump (ASHP) basically goes better than Economy-7
costs per kW/hr but on-demand 24hrs a day, but the downside is a DIY
system starts at about £299. You only need one quite probably.

You will have to set up a spreadsheet with your intended use - as well
as start planning insulation :-)

Once insulated if you are working with legs under a desk for a lot of
the time, you may find closing off the desk a bit and using a 400W oil
filled radiator makes things quite comfortable. A storage heater gives
thermal mass (65-145kg of it), so can be useful although I would not
want to mix fine wood dust and a storage heater... the core
temperature is above the ignition temperature of very fine dust. The
industrial fan heaters use a MICS (copper sheathed) element rather
than bare wire, along with a "fan oven" style metal impellor and
motor, so more useful in a workshop environment.

On Nov 17, 10:06*pm, Tabby wrote:

All electric heating is 100% efficient.

No, some is more than 100% efficient. If it's a big workshop,
expensive and you can afford the capital, heat pumps make as much
sense there as elsewhere.

Otherwise, at moderate cost, a carpentry or joinery shop is best
heated by long-wavelength IR radiants, the sort with white ceramic non-
glowing elements. These are best at heating you rather than the
atmosphere. Provided that you're moderately active (hence carpentry),
this is fine.

For other tasks you might need to warm the workshop up, just so that
stuff works. I was using epoxy last night - impossible job at 5°C.
Then you need draughtproofing and insulation first. Then like you say,
everything is 100%.

Solar is work looking at. Under a grand will give you a powerful space
heating system for a big workshop. £300 - £400 for a bare-bones
systems on a double garage (half a dozen vacuum tubes and recycled
radiators).

I don't like woodstoves in amateur workshops - only if they're
commercial workshops, with someone in there all day and you run the
fire down an hour or two before leaving. At my place if I have spare
wood waste, I'd rather burn it in the house.

On Nov 18, 1:43*am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Nov 17, 10:06*pm, Tabby wrote:

All electric heating is 100% efficient.

No, some is more than 100% efficient. *If it's a big workshop,
expensive and you can afford the capital, heat pumps make as much
sense there as elsewhere.

hmm... when things get really cold, the effective efficiency of those
drops badly. Workshops spend most days unused, giving them not so good
payback. If you're going to use one, you'd get far better payback
using it in the house.


NT

On 17/11/2010 22:49, Colin Stamp wrote:
On 17/11/10 20:59, Count de Monet wrote:
Any suggestions for a wood construction workshop 4m x 3m size

The workshop is basically a large heavy duty shed with a UPVC door and
UPVC window with no internal insulation.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Barneyrubble/wshop.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions welcome

Without any insulation, the only type that will be remotely efficient
would be infra-red. i.e. try to heat yourself without heating the air.
It works reasonably well if you're doing something fairly active, but
it's a bit crap if you're not moving much.

Why not insulate it though? My shed is a bit over 4m X 2m. It's
insulated all round (including floor and ceiling) with cheapo
polystyrene under plasterboard and it's nicely heat-tight. I put in a
3kW convector for a fast warm-up, but it'll easily maintain a nice cosy
temp on a mid-winter night on the 1kW setting....

I was pleasantly surprised to find one frosty morning recently that my
latest shed was pleasantly warm inside. It has no windows and, as yet,
no electricity, so I have to work with the door open and it had warmed
up nicely the previous afternoon. Unfortunately, it also cooled down
quickly with the door open in the morning.

It has 25mm insulation on the walls and under the 22mm chipboard floor,
with 100mm of insulation in the flat roof. It is also built of
blockwork, clad with 15mm timber to blend in with the other sheds, and,
probably most important, when I open the door the door seals making a
sucking noise, suggesting it is air tight too.

Colin Bignell

On Nov 17, 8:59*pm, Count de Monet wrote:
Any suggestions for a wood construction workshop 4m x 3m size

The workshop is basically a large heavy duty shed with a UPVC door and
UPVC window with no internal insulation.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Barneyrubble/wshop.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions welcome

I forgot to add to my earlier post that you should go to Costco (I'm
sure there are other sources) and get the rubber interlocking floor
matting - insulation, foot protecting, dropped items protecting,
easily swept - all in one. £20 will do a small workshop and it makes
workshop life so much pleasanter.

rob

"Tabby" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 8:59 pm, Count de Monet wrote:
Any suggestions for a wood construction workshop 4m x 3m size

The workshop is basically a large heavy duty shed with a UPVC door and
UPVC window with no internal insulation.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Barneyrubble/wshop.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions welcome

All electric heating is 100% efficient. Insulate insulate insulate.

Heat pumps are more than 100% efficient when using electricity to heat, most
of the time.