I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

On 27/10/10 12:03, Matty F wrote:
I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!
is this totally outdoors in the garden, unattached to the building?

In article
,
Matty F wrote:

I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house.....
I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.

That's some steps alrighty (some bank as well).

Will you be doing a handrail? That would take the wobblies out of
coming down again, and would assist in going up with heavy tools.

And will you be stapling heavy chicken wire to the steps to prevent
sliding about in the wet?

(We want photies, by the way! Before and after!)

John

On Oct 28, 12:06 am, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:

is this totally outdoors in the garden, unattached to the building?

Yes it is totally outdoors.

On 27 Oct, 12:03, Matty F wrote:
I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

can you dig the steps into the bank itself? using stout pegs and
"risers" to hold the earth/hardcore in the step shape?

Jim K

On Oct 28, 12:15 am, Another John wrote:

Will you be doing a handrail? That would take the wobblies out of
coming down again, and would assist in going up with heavy tools.

Yes I will have a handrail. I propose having 75x50 posts in the gound
and nailed on to the stringers, 1350 mm apart, to hold a 50x50 mm
handrail. All the timber will be treated suitable to be in the ground.
I wouldn't usually use that for a handrail but it's cheap, and I can
plane it smooth. Splinters could bevery nasty.

And will you be stapling heavy chicken wire to the steps to prevent
sliding about in the wet?

It's rough sawn timber. Nobody will go on it in the wet.

(We want photies, by the way! Before and after!)

OK!

"Another John" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Matty F wrote:

I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house.....
I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.

That's some steps alrighty (some bank as well).

Will you be doing a handrail? That would take the wobblies out of
coming down again, and would assist in going up with heavy tools.

And will you be stapling heavy chicken wire to the steps to prevent
sliding about in the wet?

(We want photies, by the way! Before and after!)

John

why not cut steps into the bank like they do on hill walks cliff paths etc?
face with bits of 7x2 held inplace with 20mm rebar

On Oct 28, 12:21 am, Jim K wrote:
On 27 Oct, 12:03, Matty F wrote:



I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

can you dig the steps into the bank itself? using stout pegs and
"risers" to hold the earth/hardcore in the step shape?

The bank is loose sandstone. I need to have stringers all the way up
and resting on the ground at the bottom.

On Oct 28, 12:25 am, "TMC" wrote:

why not cut steps into the bank like they do on hill walks cliff paths etc?
face with bits of 7x2 held inplace with 20mm rebar

The bank is too steep for that. It's a 45 degree slope, and it's too
weak to hold pegs. I'll drive the posts in a bit just to stop sideways
movement but the posts will be attached to the stringer on one side.

Matty F wrote:

The bank is too steep for that. It's a 45 degree slope, and it's too
weak to hold pegs. I'll drive the posts in a bit just to stop sideways
movement but the posts will be attached to the stringer on one side.

With your skills and interests, I would have thought that
something along these lines would suit:

http://www.hows.org.uk/personal/rail/sen.htm

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Oct 27, 12:03*pm, Matty F wrote:
I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

I'd be tempted to do it in concrete, then it'll actually last. Treated
softwood on wet ground, not great. For crete all you'd need would be
two planks, bung some light rebar down, then nail in a cross plank for
each step - just do enough for a day's work, then take them off &
reuse. Harder work, but with timber you'll only have to do the whole
lot again.

It doesnt sound BR compliant, a long run with no landing. So you'll
probably be taken away and never heard from again.


NT

On 27 Oct, 12:38, Tabby wrote:
On Oct 27, 12:03 pm, Matty F wrote:



I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

I'd be tempted to do it in concrete, then it'll actually last. Treated
softwood on wet ground, not great. For crete all you'd need would be
two planks, bung some light rebar down, then nail in a cross plank for
each step - just do enough for a day's work, then take them off &
reuse. Harder work, but with timber you'll only have to do the whole
lot again.

It doesnt sound BR compliant, a long run with no landing. So you'll
probably be taken away

I thought he already had been ;)

and never heard from again.

they're still working on that bit ;)

Jim K

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

You could copy the design of space saver loft ladders to give you a greater
tread depth to riser ratio.

http://www.staircase.co.uk/space/airedale.aspx

Tim



I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

On Oct 28, 12:37 am, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Matty F wrote:
The bank is too steep for that. It's a 45 degree slope, and it's too
weak to hold pegs. I'll drive the posts in a bit just to stop sideways
movement but the posts will be attached to the stringer on one side.

With your skills and interests, I would have thought that
something along these lines would suit:

http://www.hows.org.uk/personal/rail/sen.htm

The steps on the right of the funicular look exactly what I propose to
build, and they are over 9 metres long and the same slope. Maybe
that's OK then.

On Oct 28, 12:38 am, Tabby wrote:

I'd be tempted to do it in concrete, then it'll actually last. Treated
softwood on wet ground, not great. For crete all you'd need would be
two planks, bung some light rebar down, then nail in a cross plank for
each step - just do enough for a day's work, then take them off &
reuse. Harder work, but with timber you'll only have to do the whole
lot again.

H4 treated pinus radiata timber in NZ is used in the ground and seems
to last indefinitely. I think it's full of arsenic.

It doesnt sound BR compliant, a long run with no landing. So you'll
probably be taken away and never heard from again.

I could have a landing every eight steps. I may not finish it tomorrow
in that case. And will I be able to carry large trees down the steps
with all those landings?

The problem with this project is that I might enjoy the view from the
cliff so much that I will go up there a lot and want steps not so
steep.

On 27/10/2010 12:03, Matty F wrote:
I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder
which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a
piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a
chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with
risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to
be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have
24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all
the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the
handrail on the the outward side.
I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't
apply.
I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more
complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.
I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

I would be tempted to build a staircase instead. That would not need to
follow the slope of the ground and it would be simple to put a landing
in halfway up, if you wanted one.

Colin Bignell

On Oct 28, 4:03 am, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

I would be tempted to build a staircase instead. That would not need to
follow the slope of the ground and it would be simple to put a landing
in halfway up, if you wanted one.

I've now measured the bank and the slope is 53 degrees, which is
getting a bit steep for steps.I think I need a landing about every
2.7metres.
I can't see how to hold the landings up. The bank is basically pieces
of sandstone held by weeds. It's impossible to dig holes in it. Even
steel pegs would fall out after a while.

On 27/10/2010 22:32, Matty F wrote:
On Oct 28, 4:03 am, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:

I would be tempted to build a staircase instead. That would not need to
follow the slope of the ground and it would be simple to put a landing
in halfway up, if you wanted one.

I've now measured the bank and the slope is 53 degrees, which is
getting a bit steep for steps.I think I need a landing about every
2.7metres.
I can't see how to hold the landings up. The bank is basically pieces
of sandstone held by weeds. It's impossible to dig holes in it. Even
steel pegs would fall out after a while.

That is why I thought of a staircase. Build a timber or concrete base at
the foot of the slope and erect a timber framework on that. It would not
need any fixing to the slope at all.

Colin Bignell

On Oct 28, 8:49 pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 27/10/2010 22:32, Matty F wrote:

On Oct 28, 4:03 am, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:

I would be tempted to build a staircase instead. That would not need to
follow the slope of the ground and it would be simple to put a landing
in halfway up, if you wanted one.

I've now measured the bank and the slope is 53 degrees, which is
getting a bit steep for steps.I think I need a landing about every
2.7metres.
I can't see how to hold the landings up. The bank is basically pieces
of sandstone held by weeds. It's impossible to dig holes in it. Even
steel pegs would fall out after a while.

That is why I thought of a staircase. Build a timber or concrete base at
the foot of the slope and erect a timber framework on that. It would not
need any fixing to the slope at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by a staircase. I intend having two large
stringers that go from bottom to top. The steps will be fixed with
dado joints. Basically it's like a wooden ladder but much bigger. I'll
have a handrail.
I went for a walk today and inspected a flight of steps built by the
Council. It has 20 steps in one flight and was very easy to walk up
and down. Mine will be the same except will be steeper.

On 28/10/2010 09:19, Matty F wrote:
On Oct 28, 8:49 pm, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 27/10/2010 22:32, Matty F wrote:

On Oct 28, 4:03 am, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:

I would be tempted to build a staircase instead. That would not need to
follow the slope of the ground and it would be simple to put a landing
in halfway up, if you wanted one.

I've now measured the bank and the slope is 53 degrees, which is
getting a bit steep for steps.I think I need a landing about every
2.7metres.
I can't see how to hold the landings up. The bank is basically pieces
of sandstone held by weeds. It's impossible to dig holes in it. Even
steel pegs would fall out after a while.

That is why I thought of a staircase. Build a timber or concrete base at
the foot of the slope and erect a timber framework on that. It would not
need any fixing to the slope at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by a staircase. I intend having two large
stringers that go from bottom to top. The steps will be fixed with
dado joints. Basically it's like a wooden ladder but much bigger. I'll
have a handrail.
I went for a walk today and inspected a flight of steps built by the
Council. It has 20 steps in one flight and was very easy to walk up
and down. Mine will be the same except will be steeper.

It is difficult to describe and I can't find any suitable illustratons
online. My idea was to build a landing at half the height of the bank,
using four vertical corner posts set firmly on (or into) the ground
below the slope. There would then be a flight of stairs leading up to
the landing from the ground and a second flight leading from the landing
to the top of the slope. The stairs could then be built at an angle that
was independent of the angle of the slope; Around 35 degrees is
comfortable. Being set away from the slope, handrails on both sides
would be advisable.

Colin Bignell

On Oct 27, 1:34*pm, Matty F wrote:
On Oct 28, 12:38 am, Tabby wrote:

I'd be tempted to do it in concrete, then it'll actually last. Treated
softwood on wet ground, not great. For crete all you'd need would be
two planks, bung some light rebar down, then nail in a cross plank for
each step - just do enough for a day's work, then take them off &
reuse. Harder work, but with timber you'll only have to do the whole
lot again.

H4 treated pinus radiata timber in NZ is used in the ground and seems
to last indefinitely. I think it's full of arsenic.

It doesnt sound BR compliant, a long run with no landing. So you'll
probably be taken away and never heard from again.

I could have a landing every eight steps. I may not finish it tomorrow
in that case. And will I be able to carry large trees down the steps
with all those landings?

The problem with this project is that I might enjoy the view from the
cliff so much that I will go up there a lot and want steps not so
steep.

Is the arsenic compound treated wood still available over here?


NT

On Oct 28, 11:10 pm, Tabby wrote:

Is the arsenic compound treated wood still available over here?

In the UK? I don't know.
But I've found a supplier of very cheap ground-rated treated timber.
It's not green, so it's probably arsenic treatment. It's about quarter
the price of H3 (non-ground treated).

On Oct 28, 9:34 pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 28/10/2010 09:19, Matty F wrote:



On Oct 28, 8:49 pm, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 27/10/2010 22:32, Matty F wrote:

On Oct 28, 4:03 am, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:

I would be tempted to build a staircase instead. That would not need to
follow the slope of the ground and it would be simple to put a landing
in halfway up, if you wanted one.

I've now measured the bank and the slope is 53 degrees, which is
getting a bit steep for steps.I think I need a landing about every
2.7metres.
I can't see how to hold the landings up. The bank is basically pieces
of sandstone held by weeds. It's impossible to dig holes in it. Even
steel pegs would fall out after a while.

That is why I thought of a staircase. Build a timber or concrete base at
the foot of the slope and erect a timber framework on that. It would not
need any fixing to the slope at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by a staircase. I intend having two large
stringers that go from bottom to top. The steps will be fixed with
dado joints. Basically it's like a wooden ladder but much bigger. I'll
have a handrail.
I went for a walk today and inspected a flight of steps built by the
Council. It has 20 steps in one flight and was very easy to walk up
and down. Mine will be the same except will be steeper.

It is difficult to describe and I can't find any suitable illustratons
online. My idea was to build a landing at half the height of the bank,
using four vertical corner posts set firmly on (or into) the ground
below the slope. There would then be a flight of stairs leading up to
the landing from the ground and a second flight leading from the landing
to the top of the slope. The stairs could then be built at an angle that
was independent of the angle of the slope; Around 35 degrees is
comfortable. Being set away from the slope, handrails on both sides
would be advisable.

That would certainly require engineering calculations and a building
permit, which would be refused because the hill is unstable.
Rocks fall down all the time. A neighbour has put wire mesh over his
hill with some kind of plastic mesh and sprayed it with grass seeds
which are growing well.

On 28 Oct, 11:10, Tabby wrote:
On Oct 27, 1:34*pm, Matty F wrote:





On Oct 28, 12:38 am, Tabby wrote:
I'd be tempted to do it in concrete, then it'll actually last. Treated
softwood on wet ground, not great. For crete all you'd need would be
two planks, bung some light rebar down, then nail in a cross plank for
each step - just do enough for a day's work, then take them off &
reuse. Harder work, but with timber you'll only have to do the whole
lot again.

H4 treated pinus radiata timber in NZ is used in the ground and seems
to last indefinitely. I think it's full of arsenic.

It doesnt sound BR compliant, a long run with no landing. So you'll
probably be taken away and never heard from again.

I could have a landing every eight steps. I may not finish it tomorrow
in that case. And will I be able to carry large trees down the steps
with all those landings?

The problem with this project is that I might enjoy the view from the
cliff so much that I will go up there a lot and want steps not so
steep.

Is the arsenic compound treated wood still available over here?

NT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No. They use smething else now. Not as effective apparently

On Oct 28, 7:57*pm, harry wrote:
On 28 Oct, 11:10, Tabby wrote:



On Oct 27, 1:34*pm, Matty F wrote:

On Oct 28, 12:38 am, Tabby wrote:
I'd be tempted to do it in concrete, then it'll actually last. Treated
softwood on wet ground, not great. For crete all you'd need would be
two planks, bung some light rebar down, then nail in a cross plank for
each step - just do enough for a day's work, then take them off &
reuse. Harder work, but with timber you'll only have to do the whole
lot again.

H4 treated pinus radiata timber in NZ is used in the ground and seems
to last indefinitely. I think it's full of arsenic.

It doesnt sound BR compliant, a long run with no landing. So you'll
probably be taken away and never heard from again.

I could have a landing every eight steps. I may not finish it tomorrow
in that case. And will I be able to carry large trees down the steps
with all those landings?

The problem with this project is that I might enjoy the view from the
cliff so much that I will go up there a lot and want steps not so
steep.

Is the arsenic compound treated wood still available over here?

NT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No. *They use smething else now. Not as effective apparently

CCA I think it was called. Back to creosote then.


NT

On Oct 28, 12:15 am, Another John wrote:
In article
,
Matty F wrote:

I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the
back of my house.....
I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting
to walk down.

That's some steps alrighty (some bank as well).

Will you be doing a handrail? That would take the wobblies out of
coming down again, and would assist in going up with heavy tools.

And will you be stapling heavy chicken wire to the steps to prevent
sliding about in the wet?

(We want photies, by the way! Before and after!)

OK here's the timber for the steps, or should I call it a ladder.
It's Pinus Radiata treated against rot in the ground.
http://i52.tinypic.com/2mct26o.jpg

It weights 200 kg. I don't suppose I'll be moving this ladder around
much!
It cost 80 GBP. Not bad for a 7.2 metre ladder with a handrail.

Here's the cliff with a 4 metre aluminium ladder on it. The wooden
ladder will need to go past that tree trunk at the top, to 7.2 metres.
The angle is 55 degrees in its new location, which is a bit shorter
than before.
http://i56.tinypic.com/n2dgu9.jpg

Here's a closeup of the cliff face. It's basically fractured
sandstone. The larger pieces are up to 200mm across.
http://i53.tinypic.com/655xuh.jpg

It's impossible to dig holes into, or to drive in metal stakes. The
rocks will just fall out.

I'm basically making three wooden ladders, each 2.4 metres long and 66
kg.
I'll join them togther. My current thinking is to peg them together at
the ends with four 300mm pieces of steel reinforcing rod, then bolt a
steel plate on each side.
Then I can take the ladder apart in future if I change my mind, which
is likely!