Recently been bouncing emails back and forth to the accounts department of a
company that I do work for, trying to get payment for the last jobs I did
for them. Finally, after all the usual excuses of illness / new accounts
system / company been bought out and so on, The erk who deals with my
account sent a remittance advice, and the money was BACs'd into my account.

So being the nice forgiving guy that I am, I sent another mail thanking him
for his efforts. A reply has just come back ...

"Dear xxxx,


Thank you for your patients.


Kind Regards

yyyy "


What have we done to our schools ... ? :-\

Arfa

... all the usual excuses of illness / new accounts
system / company been bought out and so on...


Thank you for your patients.

I think they must have a lot of classes on "avoiding paying honest
contractors" at accounts school.

On 26/10/2010 14:57, Arfa Daily wrote:
Recently been bouncing emails back and forth to the accounts
department of a company that I do work for, trying to get payment for
the last jobs I did for them. Finally, after all the usual excuses of
illness / new accounts system / company been bought out and so on, The
erk who deals with my account sent a remittance advice, and the money
was BACs'd into my account.

So being the nice forgiving guy that I am, I sent another mail
thanking him for his efforts. A reply has just come back ...

"Dear xxxx,


Thank you for your patients.


Kind Regards

yyyy "


What have we done to our schools ... ? :-\

Arfa
My spelling is reasonable but I would not consider myself good but I can
tell when a word does not look right so will look it up in the
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit like
a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.
As for Accountants aren't they all trained to withhold payment for at
least 60 days, at least the ones I deal with are, plays havoc with the
cash flow.


--
Corporal Jones
"Don't panic don't panic"
Life will go on albeit somewhat reduced

"Corporal Jones" wrote in message
...
On 26/10/2010 14:57, Arfa Daily wrote:
Recently been bouncing emails back and forth to the accounts department
of a company that I do work for, trying to get payment for the last jobs
I did for them. Finally, after all the usual excuses of illness / new
accounts system / company been bought out and so on, The erk who deals
with my account sent a remittance advice, and the money was BACs'd into
my account.

So being the nice forgiving guy that I am, I sent another mail thanking
him for his efforts. A reply has just come back ...

"Dear xxxx,


Thank you for your patients.


Kind Regards

yyyy "


What have we done to our schools ... ? :-\

Arfa
My spelling is reasonable but I would not consider myself good but I can
tell when a word does not look right so will look it up in the dictionary,
use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit like a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not enough
thinking for oneself.
As for Accountants aren't they all trained to withhold payment for at
least 60 days, at least the ones I deal with are, plays havoc with the
cash flow.


--
Corporal Jones


Over the years, this particular company has changed hands probably four
times, and each time I am back to square one 'educating' another new erk as
to how they are going to pay me. Recently, they hadn't been too bad, but
then they changed hands again, and I got another new 'account manager' who
hadn't started to shave yet ...

I told him that my terms were 30 days net, and that by putting that on their
purchase order, they were agreeing to those terms. So he tells me that
purchase orders have got nothing to do with him ! I tell him that I don't
care who they've got to do with, and it doesn't matter who's responsible for
what in which department. It's all the same company, and by putting my
payment terms on the purchase order, they are agreeing to them.

So he then tells me that 30 days net means that they will pay the invoice 30
days after the end of the month in which the invoicing period falls, so I
suggest that he goes and looks the term up, and advises his accounts boss
that he is labouring under a misconception. His final shot is that my terms
don't matter. Theirs are 60 days no matter what, to which I politely respond
that again, he is wrong. I tell him that they are *my* customer, not the
other way round, so they need to abide by my terms, or there will be a
parting of the ways. That got the desired result, and I should now be back
to where I was previously. I guess we'll see when the next invoice goes in.

I've found over the years that it doesn't do to just roll over with these
accounts departments, and accept what they say. I suppose it requires having
a degree of bravado (stupidity ?) to stand your ground and risk upsetting
the company and losing their business, but in general, I've found if you
apply this policy with enough force, persistence and politeness, it's more
often they who eventually roll over. And if the worst comes to the worst,
you can always inform them that a stop has been placed on their account and
that no additional work will be accepted, until all outstanding invoices are
paid. Further, all work on any items of theirs already in the system, will
also be suspended. They don't know in accounts whether you currently have
any work of theirs 'in the system', and would prefer not to bring the wrath
of an engineering manager down on their heads because he has not received
some item back from repair, that he's waiting on. Usually does the trick ...
! :-)

Arfa

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 15:30:56 +0100, Corporal Jones wrote:

My spelling is reasonable but I would not consider myself good but I can
tell when a word does not look right so will look it up in the
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel

Same here, though I do have some black spots. That I'm slowly working
through as I become aware of them (to - too, were - where, loose -
lose, etc)

Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.

Quite possibly, miss spoll a word, the chucker highlights it and
offers the "correct" word which the user blindly accepts.

As for Accountants aren't they all trained to withhold payment for at
least 60 days, at least the ones I deal with are,

Are these regular clients that you don't want to annoy or one offs?
Wave the "Late Payment of Commercial Debt Act" under their noses. For
small debits the defaults are payment within 30 days or a £40
surcharge plus interest calculated daily at 8% above the "Reference
Rate" (BoE rate on the 1st July or 1st Jan IIRC)

http://payontime.co.uk/

--
Cheers
Dave.

Corporal Jones wrote:
On 26/10/2010 14:57, Arfa Daily wrote:
Recently been bouncing emails back and forth to the accounts
department of a company that I do work for, trying to get payment for
the last jobs I did for them. Finally, after all the usual excuses of
illness / new accounts system / company been bought out and so on,
The erk who deals with my account sent a remittance advice, and the
money was BACs'd into my account.

So being the nice forgiving guy that I am, I sent another mail
thanking him for his efforts. A reply has just come back ...

"Dear xxxx,


Thank you for your patients.


Kind Regards

yyyy "


What have we done to our schools ... ? :-\

Arfa
My spelling is reasonable but I would not consider myself good but I
can tell when a word does not look right so will look it up in the
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit
like a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.

As for Accountants aren't they all trained to withhold payment for at
least 60 days, at least the ones I deal with are, plays havoc with the
cash flow.

I don't 'do' monthly accounts at all. For large companies I will allow them
a few days to get the cheque signed or send the invoice to another office,
but never, ever longer than a week.

I explain this very clearly before I accept any job from a company & turn
down the work if they can't comply. I've lost maybe 1 or 2 jobs over this,
but I've seen what bad cash flow does to small business's.

If I work for a landlord who rents out a local property, but lives
elsewhere, I e-mail the invoice same day on the understanding that a cheque
is sent by return post.

Only had one problem. Bloke kept me waiting for 10 days for a replacement
fence panel job. I threatened to go round & remove my panels, got the cash
delivered next day. If he asks for any more work he will have to give me
money up front.

You need to be as hard as nails with credit IMO.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Corporal Jones wrote:
On 26/10/2010 14:57, Arfa Daily wrote:
Recently been bouncing emails back and forth to the accounts
department of a company that I do work for, trying to get payment
for the last jobs I did for them. Finally, after all the usual
excuses of illness / new accounts system / company been bought out
and so on, The erk who deals with my account sent a remittance
advice, and the money was BACs'd into my account.

So being the nice forgiving guy that I am, I sent another mail
thanking him for his efforts. A reply has just come back ...

"Dear xxxx,


Thank you for your patients.


Kind Regards

yyyy "


What have we done to our schools ... ? :-\

Arfa
My spelling is reasonable but I would not consider myself good but I
can tell when a word does not look right so will look it up in the
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit
like a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.

As for Accountants aren't they all trained to withhold payment for at
least 60 days, at least the ones I deal with are, plays havoc with
the cash flow.

I don't 'do' monthly accounts at all. For large companies I will
allow them a few days to get the cheque signed or send the invoice to
another office, but never, ever longer than a week.

I explain this very clearly before I accept any job from a company &
turn down the work if they can't comply. I've lost maybe 1 or 2 jobs
over this, but I've seen what bad cash flow does to small business's.

If I work for a landlord who rents out a local property, but lives
elsewhere, I e-mail the invoice same day on the understanding that a
cheque is sent by return post.

Only had one problem. Bloke kept me waiting for 10 days for a
replacement fence panel job. I threatened to go round & remove my
panels, got the cash delivered next day. If he asks for any more
work he will have to give me money up front.

You need to be as hard as nails with credit IMO.

There used to be a builder that I did work for who was a ******* when it
came to paying me.

Eventually I wanted nothing more to do with him so on the last job I did for
him I got his customer to pay me directly and knock it off the builders
bill. He called me for several weeks after this promising that things would
be different from now on. I never worked for him again. The last time I saw
him was on Rouge Traders or something similar (the one with Melinda
presenting it).

--
Adam

On 26/10/2010 17:30, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Corporal Jones wrote:
On 26/10/2010 14:57, Arfa Daily wrote:
Recently been bouncing emails back and forth to the accounts
department of a company that I do work for, trying to get payment for
the last jobs I did for them. Finally, after all the usual excuses of
illness / new accounts system / company been bought out and so on,
The erk who deals with my account sent a remittance advice, and the
money was BACs'd into my account.

So being the nice forgiving guy that I am, I sent another mail
thanking him for his efforts. A reply has just come back ...

"Dear xxxx,


Thank you for your patients.


Kind Regards

yyyy "


What have we done to our schools ... ? :-\

Arfa
My spelling is reasonable but I would not consider myself good but I
can tell when a word does not look right so will look it up in the
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit
like a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.
As for Accountants aren't they all trained to withhold payment for at
least 60 days, at least the ones I deal with are, plays havoc with the
cash flow.
I don't 'do' monthly accounts at all. For large companies I will allow them
a few days to get the cheque signed or send the invoice to another office,
but never, ever longer than a week.

I explain this very clearly before I accept any job from a company& turn
down the work if they can't comply. I've lost maybe 1 or 2 jobs over this,
but I've seen what bad cash flow does to small business's.

If I work for a landlord who rents out a local property, but lives
elsewhere, I e-mail the invoice same day on the understanding that a cheque
is sent by return post.

Only had one problem. Bloke kept me waiting for 10 days for a replacement
fence panel job. I threatened to go round& remove my panels, got the cash
delivered next day. If he asks for any more work he will have to give me
money up front.

You need to be as hard as nails with credit IMO.


All very well if you can afford to turn down work, unfortunately I am in
the position where work has been scarce since the recession kicked in.
A couple of my clients who provide me with regular work tend to pay
quite quickly but they are friends who subcontract me, they pay within
30 days even if they have not been paid themselves.
Other companies I deal direct with are very much slower, these tend to
be the larger organisations who call on my services once in a while, the
only leverage I have is when they need help & I point out that they have
still not paid me for the last job to the engineer who calls me, this
normal resolves the problem.
It is the Accountants which drag their heels, I had experience of this
at the last full time employment company I worked for, I used small
companies for specialised equipment to get the best deal but they often
phoned to say they had not been paid.
I regularly had arguments with the chief accountant to pay the bills but
it did cost me my job in the end as they are the ones that work out the
finances when cost cutting & redundancy comes around

--
Corporal Jones
"Don't panic don't panic"
Life will go on albeit somewhat reduced

On 26/10/2010 17:52, ARWadsworth wrote:


The last time I saw
him was on Rouge Traders or something similar

Red faces? Communists?

There's a law about this sort of thing

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
On 26/10/2010 17:52, ARWadsworth wrote:


The last time I saw
him was on Rouge Traders or something similar

Red faces? Communists?

There's a law about this sort of thing

Andy

He did not blush, I should :-)

--
Adam

Corporal Jones wrote:
On 26/10/2010 17:30, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Corporal Jones wrote:
On 26/10/2010 14:57, Arfa Daily wrote:
Recently been bouncing emails back and forth to the accounts
department of a company that I do work for, trying to get payment
for the last jobs I did for them. Finally, after all the usual
excuses of illness / new accounts system / company been bought out
and so on, The erk who deals with my account sent a remittance
advice, and the money was BACs'd into my account.

So being the nice forgiving guy that I am, I sent another mail
thanking him for his efforts. A reply has just come back ...

"Dear xxxx,


Thank you for your patients.


Kind Regards

yyyy "


What have we done to our schools ... ? :-\

Arfa
My spelling is reasonable but I would not consider myself good but I
can tell when a word does not look right so will look it up in the
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit
like a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.
As for Accountants aren't they all trained to withhold payment for
at least 60 days, at least the ones I deal with are, plays havoc
with the cash flow.
I don't 'do' monthly accounts at all. For large companies I will
allow them a few days to get the cheque signed or send the invoice
to another office, but never, ever longer than a week.

I explain this very clearly before I accept any job from a company& turn
down the work if they can't comply. I've lost maybe 1 or 2
jobs over this, but I've seen what bad cash flow does to small
business's. If I work for a landlord who rents out a local property, but
lives
elsewhere, I e-mail the invoice same day on the understanding that a
cheque is sent by return post.

Only had one problem. Bloke kept me waiting for 10 days for a
replacement fence panel job. I threatened to go round& remove my
panels, got the cash delivered next day. If he asks for any more
work he will have to give me money up front.

You need to be as hard as nails with credit IMO.


All very well if you can afford to turn down work, unfortunately I am
in the position where work has been scarce since the recession kicked
in. A couple of my clients who provide me with regular work tend to
pay quite quickly but they are friends who subcontract me, they pay
within 30 days even if they have not been paid themselves.

Thats the problem with late payment, it spreads down the chain. Its very
good of your friends to pay you when they haven't been paid, but why should
they have to?

Other companies I deal direct with are very much slower, these tend to
be the larger organisations who call on my services once in a while,
the only leverage I have is when they need help & I point out that
they have still not paid me for the last job to the engineer who
calls me, this normal resolves the problem.

I tell people I have a deal with my bank manager - he won't fit shelves, I
won't lend people money.

It is the Accountants which drag their heels, I had experience of this
at the last full time employment company I worked for, I used small
companies for specialised equipment to get the best deal but they
often phoned to say they had not been paid.

The squeaky hinge gets the oil.

About 4 years ago I had a woman who was deliberately hanging on to payment.
She stopped answering my calls after a while, so I sent her a txt message
every hour 9am to 10pm. She lasted 2 days before she gave in & paid in
cash.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Corporal Jones wrote:
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit like
a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.

Last month I spent an awful journey with a removal van as they
followed the Gospel according to SatNav and drove from Whitby
to mid-Aberdeenshire via A1, A68, A66, A74, M74, M80, A80,
M9, A9, A90 into Aberdeen, out the other side towards Inverness...
I kept telling them: A1, M90, A93, but no, the SatNav knows best.

JGH

About 4 years ago I had a woman who was deliberately hanging on to
payment.
She stopped answering my calls after a while, so I sent her a txt message
every hour 9am to 10pm. She lasted 2 days before she gave in & paid in
cash.

I would have reported you for making harassing calls.
You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you conduct
business in an illegal manner.
You shouldn't post such claims in public when so many people hate you
either.

On 27/10/2010 01:06, jgharston wrote:
Corporal Jones wrote:
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit like
a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.

Last month I spent an awful journey with a removal van as they
followed the Gospel according to SatNav and drove from Whitby
to mid-Aberdeenshire via A1, A68, A66, A74, M74, M80, A80,
M9, A9, A90 into Aberdeen, out the other side towards Inverness...
I kept telling them: A1, M90, A93, but no, the SatNav knows best.

A good SatNav can be a boon in an unfamiliar area, particularly if you
are without a navigator, but that route seems particularly stupid. Even
my ancient AA Milemaster sees a 40 minute advantage in the eastern
route. So what brand of SatNav was it?

I used to use a Garmin which drove me mad by forever opting for single
track short cuts on the mistaken impression that you can drive down a
single track road at at least twice the safe average speed. Swapping to
a TopmTom has given routes I am much happier with and ETAs that are
beatable in good conditions unlike the Garmin which even on major roads
seemed aimed at the faster than average driver.

dennis@home wrote:
About 4 years ago I had a woman who was deliberately hanging on to
payment.
She stopped answering my calls after a while, so I sent her a txt
message every hour 9am to 10pm. She lasted 2 days before she gave
in & paid in cash.

I would have reported you for making harassing calls.

No you wouldn't. You would never be in that situation as you are the sort of
person who settles your bills on time:-)

--
Adam

dennis@home wrote:
About 4 years ago I had a woman who was deliberately hanging on to
payment.
She stopped answering my calls after a while, so I sent her a txt
message every hour 9am to 10pm. She lasted 2 days before she gave
in & paid in cash.

I would have reported you for making harassing calls.

But I wasn't. I was sending txts asking her to call me.

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

You shouldn't post such claims in public when so many people hate you
either.

Shall we have a vote on that Dennis?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
About 4 years ago I had a woman who was deliberately hanging on to
payment.
She stopped answering my calls after a while, so I sent her a txt
message every hour 9am to 10pm. She lasted 2 days before she gave
in & paid in cash.

I would have reported you for making harassing calls.

But I wasn't. I was sending txts asking her to call me.

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

I removed the wheel nuts from the car of a non payer. I could not be arsed
to take him to court. Unfortunately I was not there to see him set off for
work in the morning:-(

--
Adam

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money owed to
you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money
owed to you?


There are semi-legal ways to chase debts.

https://www.mdrl.co.uk/



--
Adam

"Roger Chapman" wrote in message
...
On 27/10/2010 01:06, jgharston wrote:
Corporal Jones wrote:
dictionary, use a spell checker but I don't take it as gospel (bit like
a SatNav)
Maybe that is the problem nowadays, too much spoon feeding and not
enough thinking for oneself.

Last month I spent an awful journey with a removal van as they
followed the Gospel according to SatNav and drove from Whitby
to mid-Aberdeenshire via A1, A68, A66, A74, M74, M80, A80,
M9, A9, A90 into Aberdeen, out the other side towards Inverness...
I kept telling them: A1, M90, A93, but no, the SatNav knows best.

A good SatNav can be a boon in an unfamiliar area, particularly if you are
without a navigator, but that route seems particularly stupid. Even my
ancient AA Milemaster sees a 40 minute advantage in the eastern route. So
what brand of SatNav was it?

I used to use a Garmin which drove me mad by forever opting for single
track short cuts on the mistaken impression that you can drive down a
single track road at at least twice the safe average speed. Swapping to a
TopmTom has given routes I am much happier with and ETAs that are beatable
in good conditions unlike the Garmin which even on major roads seemed
aimed at the faster than average driver.
..........................
It is not always the fault of the SatNav according to my experience. I was
wanting to go to Kettering from Camberley and was directed to go via Gatwick
and into Essex.
I could not see much sense in this so I pulled over to recheck it. I was
then passed by two range rovers. One was in Met Police colours, the second
was maroon or dark red and bristled with aerials. After they disappeared,
the SatNav worked perfectly and led me right to the door. SatNav was a Tom.
The only other time it had me going was when I was on the Isle of Wight and
wanted a route home via the New Forest. It offered me a choice of going by
ferry or other means. Funny I don't think I had a choice
Alan

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money owed
to you?

Look up harassment.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money owed
to you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis is
actually correct.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note that
"anything done by a person which is reasonable" when trying to recover a
debt, is not considered to be harassment. Both the Office of Fair Trading
and Trade Associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance
on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be
avoided by creditors. The following list is taken from the new Debt
Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit licences.

Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt Collection
Guidance that the following practices are "considered unfair":

" PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE
OPPRESSIVE."

This includes:

***** Contacting you too frequently*****
* Pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt
* Using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling
you when your debt has been passed to another company
* Pressurising you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot
afford
* Making threatening gestures or statements
* Ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money
* Trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party
about your debts such as a neighbour or your family.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Mark Spice wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money
owed to you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis
is actually correct.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

But that is Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit
licences. Dave does not offer credit.

So does it apply to Dave?

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Mark Spice wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money
owed to you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis
is actually correct.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

But that is Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit
licences. Dave does not offer credit.

So does it apply to Dave?

--
Adam
Yes it does - although he does not offering credit he was trying to chase a
debt and is covered in the same way.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Mark Spice wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Mark Spice wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote
in message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing
money owed to you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis
is actually correct.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

But that is Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit
licences. Dave does not offer credit.

So does it apply to Dave?

--
Adam
Yes it does - although he does not offering credit he was trying to
chase a debt and is covered in the same way.

So is it only guidance or a law in this case?

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Mark Spice wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Mark Spice wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote
in message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing
money owed to you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis
is actually correct.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

But that is Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit
licences. Dave does not offer credit.

So does it apply to Dave?

--
Adam
Yes it does - although he does not offering credit he was trying to
chase a debt and is covered in the same way.

So is it only guidance or a law in this case?

--
Adam
IANAL but I believe it that it has been decided in Court that repeated
calls chasing debts is covered by the Prevention of Harassment Act. To tell
the truth I don't know for sure but I would suggest that it would not be a
good idea for someone who has stated that being Trading Standards accredited
has been useful for his business to conduct a course of action that could
lead to him being accused of harassment.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Mark Spice wrote:
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision
Dennis is actually correct.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

But that is Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer
credit licences. Dave does not offer credit.

So does it apply to Dave?

--
Adam
Yes it does - although he does not offering credit he was trying to
chase a debt and is covered in the same way.

So is it only guidance or a law in this case?

--
Adam
IANAL but I believe it that it has been decided in Court that
repeated calls chasing debts is covered by the Prevention of
Harassment Act.

The Protection From Harassment Act 1997.
Under this Act it becomes a criminal offence if you:
Cause alarm, harassment or distress more than once as a result of an action
you conduct against another person. The conduct might be verbal or
non-verbal and it doesn't have to be the same type of action on each
occasion - if the person feels alarmed, harassed or distressed by your
actions, then it's harassment, plain and simple, even if that was not your
intention


Now that is an act that I have been threatened with arrest for. My solicitor
went ballistic when I gave her the facts (not a debt harassment in my case).

To tell the truth I don't know for sure but I would
suggest that it would not be a good idea for someone who has stated
that being Trading Standards accredited has been useful for his
business to conduct a course of action that could lead to him being
accused of harassment.

I note your very good point on that. I do hope that Dave does as well. I
believe that he has not caused any harassment by reminding a customer that
they owe him money.

--
Adam

Mark Spice wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money
owed to you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis
is actually correct.

Rule Number One; Dennis is never right.
Rule Number Two; If Dennis shoule ever be accidentally right, then Rule One
applies.


Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note
that "anything done by a person which is reasonable" when trying to
recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment.

Great. My actions were entirely reasonable - the cow owed me money & lied
to delay payment.

Both the Office
of Fair Trading and Trade Associations (run by the credit industry)
have produced guidance on what activities may be considered
harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The
following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for
holders of consumer credit licences.

I don't have a consumer credit licence - I don't give credit or use finance.

Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt
Collection Guidance that the following practices are "considered
unfair":
" PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE
OPPRESSIVE."

How the **** are traders supposed to get paid then?

This includes:

***** Contacting you too frequently*****

Had the cowbag returned any of my calls I wouldn't have needed to constantly
ask her to.

In this case I'd fited 5 doors for the bitch, which I had paid for. They
remain my property until paid for. Her deliberate delay in payment was
tantamount to theft.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Mark Spice wrote:


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision
Dennis is actually correct.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

But that is Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer
credit licences. Dave does not offer credit.

So does it apply to Dave?

--
Adam
Yes it does - although he does not offering credit he was trying to
chase a debt and is covered in the same way.

So is it only guidance or a law in this case?

--
Adam
IANAL but I believe it that it has been decided in Court that
repeated calls chasing debts is covered by the Prevention of
Harassment Act. To tell the truth I don't know for sure but I would
suggest that it would not be a good idea for someone who has stated
that being Trading Standards accredited has been useful for his
business to conduct a course of action that could lead to him being
accused of harassment.

TBH I don't give a flying **** what anyone else thinks. The bitch
deliberately delayed payment, then completely ignored my reasonable requests
for payment by not returning my calls.

Trading Standards do not automatically come down on the side of the consumer
BTW. 18 months ago I had an alledged complaint made against me. TS
investigated fully, including interviewing me and visiting the site.

Their conclusion was that the customer was simply trying to claim a refund,
there were no grounds for the complaint. They told the complainent that his
claim was entirely spurious.

Traders don't ned to be 'afraid' of TS, they are impartial and represent
both sides.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 27/10/2010 8:58 a.m., Andy Champ wrote:
On 26/10/2010 17:52, ARWadsworth wrote:


The last time I saw
him was on Rouge Traders or something similar

Red faces? Communists?

There's a law about this sort of thing

Rough trade?

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Mark Spice wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing money
owed to you?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis
is actually correct.

Rule Number One; Dennis is never right.
Rule Number Two; If Dennis shoule ever be accidentally right, then Rule
One applies.


Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note
that "anything done by a person which is reasonable" when trying to
recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment.

Great. My actions were entirely reasonable - the cow owed me money & lied
to delay payment.

Your definition of reasonable doesn't count.


Both the Office
of Fair Trading and Trade Associations (run by the credit industry)
have produced guidance on what activities may be considered
harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The
following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for
holders of consumer credit licences.

I don't have a consumer credit licence - I don't give credit or use
finance.


The credit license is irrelevant.

Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt
Collection Guidance that the following practices are "considered
unfair":
" PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE
OPPRESSIVE."

How the **** are traders supposed to get paid then?

By legal means.


This includes:

***** Contacting you too frequently*****

Had the cowbag returned any of my calls I wouldn't have needed to
constantly ask her to.

In this case I'd fited 5 doors for the bitch, which I had paid for. They
remain my property until paid for. Her deliberate delay in payment was
tantamount to theft.

They aren't yours once fitted unless its written into the contract.
Even if you do have it written into the contract it may well be an unfair
clause.
For instance you couldn't go and remove an external door and leave her
property unsafe, you would have to get a court order for payment and let the
balifs decide what to take.

Would you like someone to forward the thread to the council so one of their
trading standards people can advise you should you come across another silly
cow^w customer?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...

TBH I don't give a flying **** what anyone else thinks. The bitch
deliberately delayed payment, then completely ignored my reasonable
requests for payment by not returning my calls.

Trading Standards do not automatically come down on the side of the
consumer BTW. 18 months ago I had an alledged complaint made against me.
TS investigated fully, including interviewing me and visiting the site.

Their conclusion was that the customer was simply trying to claim a
refund, there were no grounds for the complaint. They told the
complainent that his claim was entirely spurious.

Traders don't ned to be 'afraid' of TS, they are impartial and represent
both sides.

Yes they are impartial, they certainly wont like harassing customers by any
trader.

dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
Mark Spice wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote
in message ...

You wouldn't be on the recommended list if the council knew you
conduct business in an illegal manner.

What is illegal about chasing money owed to you SFB's?

Tell you what, post the details to Medway council and ask them to
investigate.
Let us know the results.

Answer the question teflon boy. What is illegal about chasing
money owed to you?

Sorry to say this Dave but I am afraid that on this occaision Dennis
is actually correct.

Rule Number One; Dennis is never right.
Rule Number Two; If Dennis shoule ever be accidentally right, then
Rule One applies.


Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note
that "anything done by a person which is reasonable" when trying to
recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment.

Great. My actions were entirely reasonable - the cow owed me money
& lied to delay payment.

Your definition of reasonable doesn't count.

Are you saying its reasonable to avoid paying people & tell lies to delay
payment?



Both the Office
of Fair Trading and Trade Associations (run by the credit industry)
have produced guidance on what activities may be considered
harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The
following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for
holders of consumer credit licences.

I don't have a consumer credit licence - I don't give credit or use
finance.


The credit license is irrelevant.

No it isn't. The guidance quoted only applies to those who have.

Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt
Collection Guidance that the following practices are "considered
unfair":
" PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE
OPPRESSIVE."

How the **** are traders supposed to get paid then?

By legal means.

My action was entirely legal.



This includes:

***** Contacting you too frequently*****

Had the cowbag returned any of my calls I wouldn't have needed to
constantly ask her to.

In this case I'd fited 5 doors for the bitch, which I had paid for. They
remain my property until paid for. Her deliberate delay in
payment was tantamount to theft.

They aren't yours once fitted unless its written into the contract.

They are mine until paid for.

Even if you do have it written into the contract it may well be an
unfair clause.

Deliberately delaying payment is unfair.

How would you like it if your Giro was late?

For instance you couldn't go and remove an external door and leave her
property unsafe, you would have to get a court order for payment and
let the balifs decide what to take.

No, I'd change the lock so she couldn't get in until she paid.

Would you like someone to forward the thread to the council so one of
their trading standards people can advise you should you come across
another silly cow^w customer?

Oh bring it on SFB's. I'm sure they are going to take notice of a tosspot
who isn't a customer & doesn't live in the area. They would probably enjoy
a good laugh.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

TBH I don't give a flying **** what anyone else thinks. The bitch
deliberately delayed payment, then completely ignored my reasonable
requests for payment by not returning my calls.

Trading Standards do not automatically come down on the side of the
consumer BTW. 18 months ago I had an alledged complaint made
against me. TS investigated fully, including interviewing me and
visiting the site. Their conclusion was that the customer was simply
trying to claim a
refund, there were no grounds for the complaint. They told the
complainent that his claim was entirely spurious.

Traders don't ned to be 'afraid' of TS, they are impartial and
represent both sides.

Yes they are impartial, they certainly wont like harassing customers
by any trader.

Good job I wasn't harrassing her then. Had she returned my calls I wouldn't
have needed to keep chasing her via txt. I should have charged her for the
cost of the txt messages.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

Great. My actions were entirely reasonable - the cow owed me money
& lied to delay payment.
Your definition of reasonable doesn't count.

Are you saying its reasonable to avoid paying people & tell lies to delay
payment?

It's very reasonable to expect it to be done to you, and from a pure
business perspective, very reasonable to do it as well. It may not be
*moral*, but it sure is reasonable. There is every reason to do it IF
you dont particularly expect to use that supplier again.

90% of businesses work that way.Yep right up to and including the Ford
Motor company, which has done a lot WORSE than that. It has allegedly
forced suppliers out of business, and arranged for the business to be
picked up on the cheap by its own crony suppliers.





How the **** are traders supposed to get paid then?
By legal means.

My action was entirely legal.


wel you arent supposed to kneecap them.

OTOH if you can hand on heart place a petition to wind them up on the
basis that they are presumably insolvent, *purely out of a spirit of
public duty* (Specifically NOT as a means of debt collection, yer
honour) then sometimes they find money awfully quickly.

They aren't yours once fitted unless its written into the contract.

They are mine until paid for.

That is a moot point in law, I believe.
I think the ice is a shade thin there.

Even if you do have it written into the contract it may well be an
unfair clause.


I have never heard of an unfair clause being a legal excuse.

Deliberately delaying payment is unfair.

How would you like it if your Giro was late?


hehe.

For instance you couldn't go and remove an external door and leave her
property unsafe, you would have to get a court order for payment and
let the balifs decide what to take.

No, I'd change the lock so she couldn't get in until she paid.


Nice idea. These things often work better that way.

Would you like someone to forward the thread to the council so one of
their trading standards people can advise you should you come across
another silly cow^w customer?

Oh bring it on SFB's. I'm sure they are going to take notice of a tosspot
who isn't a customer & doesn't live in the area. They would probably enjoy
a good laugh.


However, it dopes raise issues as to what legal tools are available for
debt collection.

I have found letters penned by a friendly lawyer are often good, then a
small claims court may or may not de wedge the *******s. I went straight
to winding up order,. cos I knew the animal.

I have seen property retained in lieu, unofficially. No ossifer, I
haven't got the mad cows persian rug, I don't know what she is talking
about. I consider her accusations slanderous. etc etc.

Once the other party starts playing the game of credible deniability, I
have little compunction in using the same tactics.

If someone decides to break the law, they will have little sympathy from
the law in defending themselves against actions you may or may not have
taken.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...

Oh bring it on SFB's. I'm sure they are going to take notice of a tosspot
who isn't a customer & doesn't live in the area. They would probably
enjoy a good laugh.

OK, emailed them so we will see what they say.

dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

Oh bring it on SFB's. I'm sure they are going to take notice of a
tosspot who isn't a customer & doesn't live in the area. They would
probably enjoy a good laugh.

OK, emailed them so we will see what they say.

They will say **** all.

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

Oh bring it on SFB's. I'm sure they are going to take notice of a
tosspot who isn't a customer & doesn't live in the area. They would
probably enjoy a good laugh.

OK, emailed them so we will see what they say.

They will say **** all.

Probably but it should be a laugh.

I just posted a link to the Google groups and asked if it was harassment.
We may as well have an expert opinion.

dennis@home wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...

Oh bring it on SFB's. I'm sure they are going to take notice of a
tosspot who isn't a customer & doesn't live in the area. They
would probably enjoy a good laugh.

OK, emailed them so we will see what they say.

They will say **** all.

Probably but it should be a laugh.

I just posted a link to the Google groups and asked if it was
harassment. We may as well have an expert opinion.

Please keep us updated with all replies including all the email addresses
from TS.

BTW If TS call you more than once about a complaint then are they harassing
you?
--
Adam