For feedback.... I'm pretty busy though, so may be slow to respond.


NT



Replace a radiator


[[image:Old rad 4629-4.jpg|400px]]


This [[radiator]] needs replacing.

If the new rad were the same size, the 2 valves could just be switched
off and the rad replaced, with only the water in the radiator to deal
with.

The new rad is slightly smaller though, so its necessary to cut the
pipework. There are 3 ways to avoid a mess:
* Bung in the header tank, close off the rad valves, only make one
pipework hole at once
* Freezing kit - speed & confidence needed
* Drain down the system, adding new [[inhibitor]] afterwards - allows
multiple pipe cuts, pretty foolproof

In this case there was other work to do as well, and a drain down was
chosen as the easiest option.


[[imagerain cock 4631-3.jpg|400px]]

# Turn the [[water]] feed to the [[heating]] system off, set the
[[Central Heating Operation|programmer]] to OFF for both CH and
[[Domestic Hot Water|HW]].
# Put a hosepipe onto the drain cock, and weight the other end so it
doesn't move and flood the place.
# Loosen the drain cock end nut, but don't remove it. It will leak,
put a bowl under it.
# Loosen the radiator bleed valve at the top so the rad can also
drain.

When all drained, the nuts on the radiator stubs were undone, enabling
the rad to be lifted off. Bigger rads need 2 people to lift.


[[image:CH sludge 4589-3.jpg|400px]]

When you lift the radiator off, don't tip it over or the evil sludge
spills out.


[[image:Radiator stub 4592-3.jpg|400px]]

The rad valves are ok, so the stubs (which are part of the valve
assemblies) were unscrewed from the old radiator for reuse. The
threads were cleaned out & filled with [[Putties|putty]]. The new rad
also had its threads wiped with putty, and the stubs screwed into it
as shown.


[[image:Radiator bleed valve 4595-3.jpg|400px]]

The bleed valve is screwed into the new rad at the top at the more
accessible end.


[[image:Radiator blanking plug 4596-3.jpg|400px]]

The other top end hole is blanked off. The blanking plug and bleed
valve came with the new [[radiator]].


[[image:Rad brkts 4628-3.jpg|400px]]

The enclosed wall fixing diagram wasn't too helpful, so the rad
[[brackets]] were held in place on the rad, and the lower left bracket
fixing hole measured from the left stub, horizontal and vertical
distances being taken. The brackets can move up & down on the wall,
and the rad can move sideways on the brackets; middle positions were
measured to to permit later adjustment in any direction.

These measured distances were used to mark the position of the first
fixing hole on the wall, measuring from the disconnected pipe end.
(Don't forget to hold the pipe in its desired final position.) The
other 3 [[bracket]] fixing holes were measured from the 1st one, and
marked on the wall.

Didn't have a 9mm SDS [[drill bit]], so drilled the fixing holes 10mm
and put some slices of plastic in the holes so the wall plugs fit
snugly. Fixing [[screws]] & [[wallplug]]s came with the rad, and were
more than big enough, so for once the supplied [[fixings]] were used.


[[image:Rad brackets fitted, not tightened 4597-3.jpg|400px]]

Rad brackets fitted to the wall, but [[screws]] not tightened up yet,
bracket positions still need fine adjustment.


[[image:Rad msr how far to move it 4599-2.jpg|400px]]

The rad was placed on the [[brackets]], and how far up the left one
needed to move was measured.


[[image:Rad mark upmove on wall 4600-2.jpg|400px]]

The distance to move the bracket up was marked on the wall, makes life
easier.


[[image:Rad tighten brkts level 4601-2.jpg|400px]]

The bracket was moved up to the mark and tightened. The other
[[bracket]] was moved up to make them level and tightened.


[[image:Tile support strip 4602-2.jpg|400px]]

The new rad is a bit shorter than the old, so the top row of half
tiles have been removed, and a strip of wood nailed on (with [[Nails|
masonry nails]]) to support the new row of tiles while they set.

The old tiles were removed by
# cutting through the grout to physically disconnect the keep and
remove tiles.
# insert [[screwdriver]] under the remove tiles and lift, while
keeping the other hand firmly on the keep tiles to prevent even the
slightest movement (0.1mm is too much)
# knock off any lumps of [[adhesive]] left on the wall


[[image:Tile batten & wire channel 4603-3.jpg|400px]]

The [[LED]] lit mirror has a 5v feed fitted under the tiles. Here a
shallow channel for the [[Low Voltage Wiring|wires]] has been cut with
an [[User Reviews - Power Tools - SDS Drills|SDS]] chisel. The chisel
was just bounced along the surface to make the groove.


[[image:Rad tiling wires glooped in channel 4604-3.jpg|400px]]

The [[Low Voltage Wiring|wires]] are pressed into [[Adhesive|tile
adhesive]] in the channel. Neatness is clearly vital.


[[image:Rad tiles stuck on 4605-3.jpg|400px]]

The tiles are stuck on. As the wall is uneven, each tile gets 5 dots
of [[adhesive]] and is pressed/wiggled into position. Each tile must
rest on something to stop it sliding out of position, hence the wood
strip, folded card, and for the bigger gaps here [[wallplug]] offcuts
were just right.

If the wall were flat, wiping [[adhesive]] onto the back of the tiles
with a tiling comb would be better.


[[image:Tiles grouted, rad fitted 4616-3.jpg|400px]]

Next day the [[adhesive]]'s set, though still weak. The tiles are
grouted - its only a small area so the grout was just pressed deep
into the gaps with a finger, then wiped smooth along the gap. The
finish on neighbouring grouting was rough, so the grout lines were
finger wiped to produce the same kind of finish. A rubber grouting
tool wiped at 45 degrees would produce a smooth finish.

The rad was hung on its [[brackets]], ready to connect to the left
valve on the pipe end. The correct way is to remove the old olive and
fit a new, but unfortunately the nut on both rad tails couldn't be
slid back far enough to get any access to the old olives. So I went
for the practical option and packed the outer nut completely full of
[[Putties|putty]], did it up and tried to convince myself it wasn't a
bodge. As its tightened up this putty gets forced over & around the
old olive, and that's how the seal is made. Purists will groan, but
its perfectly effective, and saved a trip out and unnecessary mucking
about.


[[image:Rad pipe shortened 4617-4.jpg|400px]]

The new rad was 3cm less wide than the old, so to connect the right
end up the pipe needed to be shortened.
* A 3.5cm length was cut out using a rotary pipecutter
* Accumulated [[paint]] was sliced off with a [[Knives|knife]] for an
inch on the 2 cut ends
* A [[Scraper|metal scourer]] cleaned the pipe surfaces
* A 15mm coupler was screwed on after smearing the olives inside and
out with [[Putty & Mastic|putty]], and done up firmly.
* With hands 4&5, the connection to the end of the rad was done up at
the same time.


[[image:Rad all done 4617-3.jpg|400px]]

Done!

The [[water]] feed was turned back on, keeping an eye on the repairs
for leaks. Everything was sound.

[[image:Radiator key 4620-2.jpg|400px]]

The radiators were all bled. Loosen the bleed valve with a bleeding
tool, air hisses out, once water begins to come out do it up again,
not very tight. If the floor isn't wipe clean its best to hold an old
towel under the bleed valve to catch the dirty drips.

The programmer was set back on and [[inhibitor]] was put in the CH
header tank (the little 2 gallon tank in the loft). That's it.


==Olives==
[[image:Compression tee showing olive 4618-3.jpg|400px]]

Compression fittings use thin copper rings called olives. Olives are
designed to be used dry, with no putty or ptfe. I've had too many
failures doing this, I smear olives inside & out with [[Putties|
putty]] and it works every time. Purists will tell you not to.

In case you've never plumbed anything before, olives aren't reusable.
Even if you gently screw home the nut on an unused fitting the olive
will no longer be usable. Every job needs a spare olive or two.

With these compression fittings, the threads don't form a watertight
seal. The seal's formed between the olive and the pipe, and a second
seal forms between olive and the fitting around it.

Why then was putty put in the threaded nut during the installation?
This isn't usually done, but when reusing an old olive is unavoidable
its probably not going to make a seal, and the putty in the nut gets
squeezed all around the olive as the nut is done up, creating a seal.


===Putties===
Several sealant options:
* Plumber's mait - never sets
* Proprietary gloops like
* PTFE tape - easy & clean. Wind it the right way so it doesn't undo
* Linseed putty - non toxic but not for potable water
* Fibres & putty - slow, no longer popular
* No sealant other than the metal olive

This job was all done with linseed putty. It does set hard, but
unscrewing a joint later breaks it up without any difficulty, there's
only a thin film left in the joint. Purists won't like that either.

See [[Putties]]


==See also==
* [[Radiator]]
* [[Central Heating Repair]]
* [[Putties]]
* And click the category links below.


[[Category:Basics]]
[[Category:Heating]]
[[Category:Plumbing]]
[[Category:Tiling]]

The new rad was 3cm less wide than the old, so to connect the right
end up the pipe needed to be shortened.
* A 3.5cm length was cut out using a rotary pipecutter
* Accumulated [[paint]] was sliced off with a [[Knives|knife]] for an
inch on the 2 cut ends
* A [[Scraper|metal scourer]] cleaned the pipe surfaces
* A 15mm coupler was screwed on after smearing the olives inside and
out with [[Putty& Mastic|putty]], and done up firmly.
* With hands 4&5, the connection to the end of the rad was done up at
the same time.


Excellent effort generally

For non-combi systems a better option for narrower rads is to use one of
the sliding tails

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/15531/...il-Compression

that can be adjusted to give a variable gap. They have the advantage
of making it easier to get the rad off next time especially when the
feed pipes come up through a solid floor and have little flexibility.

Peter Scott

On 15/10/2010 12:34, Peter Scott wrote:

The new rad was 3cm less wide than the old, so to connect the right
end up the pipe needed to be shortened.
* A 3.5cm length was cut out using a rotary pipecutter
* Accumulated [[paint]] was sliced off with a [[Knives|knife]] for an
inch on the 2 cut ends
* A [[Scraper|metal scourer]] cleaned the pipe surfaces
* A 15mm coupler was screwed on after smearing the olives inside and
out with [[Putty& Mastic|putty]], and done up firmly.
* With hands 4&5, the connection to the end of the rad was done up at
the same time.


Excellent effort generally

For non-combi systems a better option for narrower rads is to use one of
the sliding tails

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/15531/...il-Compression


that can be adjusted to give a variable gap. They have the advantage of
making it easier to get the rad off next time especially when the feed
pipes come up through a solid floor and have little flexibility.

Peter Scott


Yes, I agree - it's an excellent effort.

I, too, was going to make the point that using longer tails on the new
rad would be better than moving the pipework. Since I can't see the
images, I'm not sure what sort of tails you had. Some are just plain
with a 1/2"BSP male thread at one end to screw into the radiator, and
with an olive and conventional compression fitting at the valve end. The
other sort has a conical union and nut at the valve end. Longer - in
some cases, adjustable - versions of both types are available.

BTW, I think you referred to the tails as 'stubs'. It is better to stick
to the accepted terminology.

Likewise "putty" - which is the stuff which used to hold the glass in
windows! The putty-like substance which used to be used by plumbers -
often in conjunction with hemp - for sealing threaded joints was Boss
White (which is probably a proprietary name) or the equivalent - but I
wouldn't recommend using that for this application. On the threads of
the tail I would use gas grade PTFE tape (which is much tougher than
water grade) and on the olives and/or union joints - if I used anything
at all - I would use a smear of LS-X.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
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On Oct 15, 4:13*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 15/10/2010 12:34, Peter Scott wrote:





The new rad was 3cm less wide than the old, so to connect the right
end up the pipe needed to be shortened.
* A 3.5cm length was cut out using a rotary pipecutter
* Accumulated [[paint]] was sliced off with a [[Knives|knife]] for an
inch on the 2 cut ends
* A [[Scraper|metal scourer]] cleaned the pipe surfaces
* A 15mm coupler was screwed on after smearing the olives inside and
out with [[Putty& Mastic|putty]], and done up firmly.
* With hands 4&5, the connection to the end of the rad was done up at
the same time.

Excellent effort generally

For non-combi systems a better option for narrower rads is to use one of
the sliding tails

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/15531/...alves/Adjustab...

that can be adjusted to give a variable gap. They have the advantage of
making it easier to get the rad off next time especially when the feed
pipes come up through a solid floor and have little flexibility.

Peter Scott

Yes, I agree - it's an excellent effort.

I, too, was going to make the point that using longer tails on the new
rad would be better than moving the pipework. Since I can't see the
images, I'm not sure what sort of tails you had. Some are just plain
with a 1/2"BSP male thread at one end to screw into the radiator, and
with an olive and conventional compression fitting at the valve end. The
other sort has a conical union and nut at the valve end. Longer - in
some cases, adjustable - versions of both types are available.

BTW, I think you referred to the tails as 'stubs'. It is better to stick
to the accepted terminology.

Likewise "putty" - which is the stuff which used to hold the glass in
windows! The putty-like substance which used to be used by plumbers -
often in conjunction with hemp - for sealing threaded joints was Boss
White (which is probably a proprietary name) or the equivalent - but I
wouldn't recommend using that for this application. On the threads of
the tail I would use gas grade PTFE tape (which is much tougher than
water grade) and on the olives and/or union joints - if I used anything
at all - I would use a smear of LS-X.


Thanks both of you for the feedback. The info has been added.

Linseed glazing putty was used on this job, I'm not sure what would be
a better general purpose name for pipework sealing gloops, so I just
referred to them as putty. There must be a better term.


NT

On 16/10/2010 10:11, Tabby wrote:


Linseed glazing putty was used on this job, I'm not sure what would be
a better general purpose name for pipework sealing gloops, so I just
referred to them as putty. There must be a better term.


NT

Screwfix seem to use the generic term "jointing compound" to cover Boss
White/Hawk White-type stuff - roughly equivalent to your "putty". That
still leaves PTFE tape, liquid PTFE and silicone-based sealants like
LS-X - all of which are preferable to 'putty' for this particular operation.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
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