Saw these on the last screwfix email, and thought you may be interested,
unless they are old news!?

http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4

They don't appear to have a contact closure to control the boiler though,
which would be nice!

--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

In article , Toby
writes
Saw these on the last screwfix email, and thought you may be interested,
unless they are old news!?

http://tinyurl.com/spam

They don't appear to have a contact closure to control the boiler though,
which would be nice!

Were you aware that was an affiliate link?
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Toby
writes
Saw these on the last screwfix email, and thought you may be interested,
unless they are old news!?

http://tinyurl.com/spam

They don't appear to have a contact closure to control the boiler though,
which would be nice!

Were you aware that was an affiliate link?

No, becasue it isn't

It may have a tracking code from the email they sent me, so they can track
hpw people got to the product.

Here it is wihout the tacking code, if it bothers you that much.
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...rrier%20i-temp


--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

In article , Toby
writes
"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Toby
writes
Saw these on the last screwfix email, and thought you may be interested,
unless they are old news!?

http://tinyurl.com/spam

They don't appear to have a contact closure to control the boiler though,
which would be nice!

Were you aware that was an affiliate link?

No, becasue it isn't

They seem to think it is:
Service provided by http://www.affiliatewindow.com/
"Revolutionise your affiliate marketing"

Here it is wihout the tacking code, if it bothers you that much.
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...rrier%20i-temp

or simply http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53546/

Cheaper he
http://www.heatingcontrolsonline.co....35-horizontal-
programmable-trv-p-671.html

Nice idea for single rad rooms.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Toby
writes
"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Toby
writes
Saw these on the last screwfix email, and thought you may be interested,
unless they are old news!?

http://tinyurl.com/spam

They don't appear to have a contact closure to control the boiler
though,
which would be nice!

Were you aware that was an affiliate link?

No, becasue it isn't

They seem to think it is:
Service provided by http://www.affiliatewindow.com/
"Revolutionise your affiliate marketing"



Ok, you have lost me now!

My tinyurl "http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4" Points to
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh_search=T=errier%20i-temp&searchbutton.x=0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutto n=submit&cm_mmc=Campaign-_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating&source=aw"

Where are getting http://www.affiliatewindow.com from?

I guess from the end of the URL "&source=aw" which would be doing as I said
before, and tracking the clicks from their emails

Here is the online version of the email, which has the same link on the
programmable TRV to the one I posted via TinyURL
http://www.screwfix.info/nl/jsp/m.js...f1b297956d96aa


--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

In article , Toby
writes

Ok, you have lost me now!

My tinyurl "http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4" Points to
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...searchbutton.x
=0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutton=submit&cm_mmc=Ca mpaign-_-E10W37-_-B-
_-Heating&source=aw"

Where are getting http://www.affiliatewindow.com from?

http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4 actually redirects via:

http://www.awin1.com/awclick.php?mid....do%3F fh_sea
rch%3DTerrier%2520i-temp%26searchbutton.x%3D0%26searchbutton.y%3D0%26s earchbutton%3Dsubmit%26cm_mmc%3DCampaign-
_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating%26source%3Daw.

awin1.com is a click-through server for http://www.affiliatewindow.com/

hence my concern and query.

However, you have said that the link you pasted to get that tinyurl was:

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh... n=submit&cm_
mmc=Campaign-_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating&source=aw"

2 possibilities there, either:

1. The full link in your promotional email was obfuscated to hide the
affiliate redirection and cutting/pasting it gave the full and
affiliated link above. Pasting into a text editor (notepad) would show
if this was the case.

or

2. Tinyurl are adding affiliate redirects to their links to generate
money by clicktho's (cheeky).

(Sorry, getting long here)

If you preview the tinurl with:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/36svlc4

you are actually redirected to:

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh... n=submit&cm_
mmc=Campaign-_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating&source=aw

ie without affiliate redirection.

So . . . . . .

From that it would appear that tinyurl have started adding added
affiliate clickthro's to their links and so are not longer to be trusted
to provide clean links.

Apologies to you, the link you provided was clean but was butchered by
someone else.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, back to the product discussion . . . . and thanks for posting
it.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Toby
writes

Ok, you have lost me now!

My tinyurl "http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4" Points to
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...searchbutton.x
=0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutton=submit&cm_mmc=C ampaign-_-E10W37-_-B-
_-Heating&source=aw"

Where are getting http://www.affiliatewindow.com from?

http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4 actually redirects via:

http://www.awin1.com/awclick.php?mid....do%3F fh_sea
rch%3DTerrier%2520i-temp%26searchbutton.x%3D0%26searchbutton.y%3D0%26s earchbutton%3Dsubmit%26cm_mmc%3DCampaign-
_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating%26source%3Daw.

awin1.com is a click-through server for http://www.affiliatewindow.com/

hence my concern and query.

However, you have said that the link you pasted to get that tinyurl was:

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh... n=submit&cm_
mmc=Campaign-_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating&source=aw"

2 possibilities there, either:

1. The full link in your promotional email was obfuscated to hide the
affiliate redirection and cutting/pasting it gave the full and affiliated
link above. Pasting into a text editor (notepad) would show if this was
the case.

or

2. Tinyurl are adding affiliate redirects to their links to generate money
by clicktho's (cheeky).

(Sorry, getting long here)

If you preview the tinurl with:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/36svlc4

you are actually redirected to:

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh... n=submit&cm_
mmc=Campaign-_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating&source=aw

ie without affiliate redirection.

So . . . . . .

From that it would appear that tinyurl have started adding added affiliate
clickthro's to their links and so are not longer to be trusted to provide
clean links.

Apologies to you, the link you provided was clean but was butchered by
someone else.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, back to the product discussion . . . . and thanks for posting it.

:-)

Sort of.

I think, however, that it is screwfix that are doing the affiliate thing,
for tracking who clicks on their links in their emails, and it is not
tinyurl, that would make more sense to me, especially as they have
"&source=aw" on the end of the link, and aw sounds like it could well be
affiliatewindow

Do you see the affiliatewindow stuff if you go directly to
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...ting&source=aw


--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

In message , fred writes
In article , Toby
writes

Ok, you have lost me now!

My tinyurl "http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4" Points to
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...searchbutton.x
=0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutton=submit&cm_mmc=C ampaign-_-E10W37-_-B-
_-Heating&source=aw"

Where are getting http://www.affiliatewindow.com from?

http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4 actually redirects via:

http://www.awin1.com/awclick.php?mid...=1wb7xsl17z s
lk&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.screwfix.com%2Fsearch.do%3F fh_sea
rch%3DTerrier%2520i-temp%26searchbutton.x%3D0%26searchbutton.y%3D0%26s ea
rchbutton%3Dsubmit%26cm_mmc%3DCampaign-
_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating%26source%3Daw.


How do you capture the redirection? (out of interest)

hence my concern and query.

However, you have said that the link you pasted to get that tinyurl was:

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...emp&searchbutt
on.x=0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutton=submit&cm_
mmc=Campaign-_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating&source=aw"

2 possibilities there, either:

1. The full link in your promotional email was obfuscated to hide the
affiliate redirection and cutting/pasting it gave the full and
affiliated link above. Pasting into a text editor (notepad) would show
if this was the case.


You seem to assume that the OP cut and pasted from the email. More
likely I think for them to have cut and pasted from the web page they
got taken to.

The link in the email may have been nothing like it at all eg see the
links on the web page version of the email, this is the link for the
Terrier valves.

http://www.screwfix.info/r/?id=h21dc383d,540af77,540afc5


I imagine it's normal for companies to use such affiliate links for
tracking responses to emails etc.

or

2. Tinyurl are adding affiliate redirects to their links to generate
money by clicktho's (cheeky).


Seems unlikely (I reckon they make plenty from the ads). For one thing
I'm pretty sure there would be discussions elsewhere on this on the web,
but a quick search doesn't show up anything.
--
Chris French

In article , Toby
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...

From that it would appear that tinyurl have started adding added affiliate
clickthro's to their links and so are not longer to be trusted to provide
clean links.

Apologies to you, the link you provided was clean but was butchered by
someone else.

I think, however, that it is screwfix that are doing the affiliate thing,
for tracking who clicks on their links in their emails, and it is not
tinyurl, that would make more sense to me, especially as they have
"&source=aw" on the end of the link, and aw sounds like it could well be
affiliatewindow

Do you see the affiliatewindow stuff if you go directly to
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...earchbutton.x=
0&searchbutton.y=0&searchbutton=submit&cm_mmc=Cam paign-_-E10W37-_-B-
_-Heating&source=aw

That has screwfix.com as the root domain and goes direct to the screwfix
product page without external redirection. That makes me think that the
forwarding and affiliate manipulation is being done at a higher level by
tinyurl.

Sure, screwfix are doing a bit of tracking to see where there customers
are coming from but as long as screwfix is in the root domain of their
links and they are doing it in-house then I don't have a problem with
that (although I always trim out tracking information when I post links
here).

Since the preview link at tinyurl is clean and the affiliate link only
pops up when I trap redirects passing through the non-previewed tinyurl
link, this reinforces my thoughts that the affiliate manipulation is
happening at tinyurl.

I've searched to see if anyone else has spotted this but the search is
swamped by results for how to hide your affiliate links with tinyurl!

Any web marketing buffs care to butt in?

For info, I'm using Opera with automatic redirection disabled to track
any redirect attempts.

ps: what does bother me is seeing my page hang at screwfix waiting for a
response from google analytics, crippling the speed of my browsing to
track my behaviour is just not on.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

In article , chris French
writes
In message , fred writes

http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4 actually redirects via:

http://www.awin1.com/awclick.php?mid...=1wb7xsl17z s
lk&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.screwfix.com%2Fsearch.do%3 Ffh_sea
rch%3DTerrier%2520i-temp%26searchbutton.x%3D0%26searchbutton.y%3D0%2
6sea
rchbutton%3Dsubmit%26cm_mmc%3DCampaign-
_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating%26source%3Daw.


How do you capture the redirection? (out of interest)

Opera browser with automatic redirection turned off (Preferences
Advanced Network - Enable Automatic Redirection)


2 possibilities there, either:

1. The full link in your promotional email was obfuscated to hide the
affiliate redirection and cutting/pasting it gave the full and
affiliated link above. Pasting into a text editor (notepad) would show
if this was the case.

You seem to assume that the OP cut and pasted from the email. More
likely I think for them to have cut and pasted from the web page they
got taken to.

The link in the email may have been nothing like it at all eg see the
links on the web page version of the email, this is the link for the
Terrier valves.

http://www.screwfix.info/r/?id=h21dc383d,540af77,540afc5

I imagine it's normal for companies to use such affiliate links for
tracking responses to emails etc.

The fact that the preview link from tinurl is clean suggests to me
that the link the o/p put in is clean.

I'm trying to replicate the situation here to see what happens and have
had some success.

Using a cookie enabled browser I went to screwfix and browsed to a
product. I then copied the clean link from the browser and pasted it
into tinyurl.

On copying the tinyurl back into Opera set to trap, the tinyurl
redirected via affilliatewindow's servers.

This is reinforcing my opinion that tinyurl are adding affiliate
information to certain links.

This isn't a hundred percent as this isn't happening every time but I
think it is showing a trend.

Screwfix are certainly participating in this, the mid=1228 section of
the affiliate link is the id for screwfix and it appears that they are
paying people commission on click through sales. Interesting reading
below, makes you realise why searches are so clogged these days with
affiliate sites when you see the commissions on offer:

http://www.affiliatewindow.com/merch...merch&mid=1228


Any web savvy punters care to contribute?
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , chris French
writes
In message , fred writes

http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4 actually redirects via:

http://www.awin1.com/awclick.php?mid...=1wb7xsl17z s
lk&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.screwfix.com%2Fsearch.do% 3Ffh_sea
rch%3DTerrier%2520i-temp%26searchbutton.x%3D0%26searchbutton.y%3D0%2
6sea
rchbutton%3Dsubmit%26cm_mmc%3DCampaign-
_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating%26source%3Daw.


How do you capture the redirection? (out of interest)

Opera browser with automatic redirection turned off (Preferences
Advanced Network - Enable Automatic Redirection)


2 possibilities there, either:

1. The full link in your promotional email was obfuscated to hide the
affiliate redirection and cutting/pasting it gave the full and
affiliated link above. Pasting into a text editor (notepad) would show
if this was the case.

You seem to assume that the OP cut and pasted from the email. More
likely I think for them to have cut and pasted from the web page they
got taken to.

The link in the email may have been nothing like it at all eg see the
links on the web page version of the email, this is the link for the
Terrier valves.

http://www.screwfix.info/r/?id=h21dc383d,540af77,540afc5

I imagine it's normal for companies to use such affiliate links for
tracking responses to emails etc.

The fact that the preview link from tinurl is clean suggests to me that
the link the o/p put in is clean.

I'm trying to replicate the situation here to see what happens and have
had some success.

Using a cookie enabled browser I went to screwfix and browsed to a
product. I then copied the clean link from the browser and pasted it into
tinyurl.

On copying the tinyurl back into Opera set to trap, the tinyurl redirected
via affilliatewindow's servers.

This is reinforcing my opinion that tinyurl are adding affiliate
information to certain links.

This isn't a hundred percent as this isn't happening every time but I
think it is showing a trend.

Screwfix are certainly participating in this, the mid=1228 section of the
affiliate link is the id for screwfix and it appears that they are paying
people commission on click through sales. Interesting reading below, makes
you realise why searches are so clogged these days with affiliate sites
when you see the commissions on offer:

http://www.affiliatewindow.com/merch...merch&mid=1228


Any web savvy punters care to contribute?

Hmm,

Does indeed sound like affilliatewindow and tinyurl are scamming Screwfix
here.

If affilliatewindow share their list of websites that they get paid per
click, and then any matching domains clicked on via tinyurl are doctored,
giving tinyurl a kick-back from affilliatewindow, then they both win and
Screwfix (and other companies, no doubt) will have been effectively
conned...

If you use this link
http://www.affiliatewindow.com/merch...merch&mid=1228

and change the number on the end to find other companies that
affilliatewindow have as clients, then create a tinyurl to that site, does
it still happen?

Then try random sites that wouldn't ne associated with affilliatewindow in
tinyurl

Toby...

"Toby" wrote in message
...

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , chris French
writes
In message , fred writes

http://tinyurl.com/36svlc4 actually redirects via:

http://www.awin1.com/awclick.php?mid...=1wb7xsl17z s
lk&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.screwfix.com%2Fsearch.do %3Ffh_sea
rch%3DTerrier%2520i-temp%26searchbutton.x%3D0%26searchbutton.y%3D0%2
6sea
rchbutton%3Dsubmit%26cm_mmc%3DCampaign-
_-E10W37-_-B-_-Heating%26source%3Daw.


How do you capture the redirection? (out of interest)

Opera browser with automatic redirection turned off (Preferences
Advanced Network - Enable Automatic Redirection)


2 possibilities there, either:

1. The full link in your promotional email was obfuscated to hide the
affiliate redirection and cutting/pasting it gave the full and
affiliated link above. Pasting into a text editor (notepad) would show
if this was the case.

You seem to assume that the OP cut and pasted from the email. More
likely I think for them to have cut and pasted from the web page they
got taken to.

The link in the email may have been nothing like it at all eg see the
links on the web page version of the email, this is the link for the
Terrier valves.

http://www.screwfix.info/r/?id=h21dc383d,540af77,540afc5

I imagine it's normal for companies to use such affiliate links for
tracking responses to emails etc.

The fact that the preview link from tinurl is clean suggests to me that
the link the o/p put in is clean.

I'm trying to replicate the situation here to see what happens and have
had some success.

Using a cookie enabled browser I went to screwfix and browsed to a
product. I then copied the clean link from the browser and pasted it into
tinyurl.

On copying the tinyurl back into Opera set to trap, the tinyurl
redirected via affilliatewindow's servers.

This is reinforcing my opinion that tinyurl are adding affiliate
information to certain links.

This isn't a hundred percent as this isn't happening every time but I
think it is showing a trend.

Screwfix are certainly participating in this, the mid=1228 section of the
affiliate link is the id for screwfix and it appears that they are paying
people commission on click through sales. Interesting reading below,
makes you realise why searches are so clogged these days with affiliate
sites when you see the commissions on offer:

http://www.affiliatewindow.com/merch...merch&mid=1228


Any web savvy punters care to contribute?

Hmm,

Does indeed sound like affilliatewindow and tinyurl are scamming Screwfix
here.

If affilliatewindow share their list of websites that they get paid per
click, and then any matching domains clicked on via tinyurl are doctored,
giving tinyurl a kick-back from affilliatewindow, then they both win and
Screwfix (and other companies, no doubt) will have been effectively
conned...

If you use this link
http://www.affiliatewindow.com/merch...merch&mid=1228

and change the number on the end to find other companies that
affilliatewindow have as clients, then create a tinyurl to that site, does
it still happen?

Then try random sites that wouldn't ne associated with affilliatewindow in
tinyurl

Toby...


http://tinyurl.com/35ug7by is one I just created that points to
http://www.sleepingsolutions.co.uk/, which is affilliatewindow client number
1227


--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply

In article , Toby
writes
"Toby" wrote in message
...

Hmm,

Does indeed sound like affilliatewindow and tinyurl are scamming Screwfix
here.

If affilliatewindow share their list of websites that they get paid per
click, and then any matching domains clicked on via tinyurl are doctored,
giving tinyurl a kick-back from affilliatewindow, then they both win and
Screwfix (and other companies, no doubt) will have been effectively
conned...

If you use this link
http://www.affiliatewindow.com/merch...=showmerch&mid
=1228

and change the number on the end to find other companies that
affilliatewindow have as clients, then create a tinyurl to that site, does
it still happen?

Then try random sites that wouldn't ne associated with affilliatewindow in
tinyurl

Toby...


http://tinyurl.com/35ug7by is one I just created that points to
http://www.sleepingsolutions.co.uk/, which is affilliatewindow client number
1227

That's clean
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

fred wrote:
In article , Toby
writes
"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Toby
writes
Saw these on the last screwfix email, and thought you may be
interested, unless they are old news!?

http://tinyurl.com/spam

They don't appear to have a contact closure to control the boiler
though, which would be nice!

Were you aware that was an affiliate link?

No, becasue it isn't

They seem to think it is:
Service provided by http://www.affiliatewindow.com/
"Revolutionise your affiliate marketing"

Here it is wihout the tacking code, if it bothers you that much.
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh...rrier%20i-temp

or simply http://www.screwfix.com/prods/53546/

Cheaper he
http://www.heatingcontrolsonline.co....35-horizontal-
programmable-trv-p-671.html

Nice idea for single rad rooms.

They look ideal for some rooms. I have got the bedroom in mind. It can just
heat it up for 30 minutes in a morning and an hour at night without all that
tedious business of having to use a normal TRV.


--
Adam

On 13/10/2010 19:32, ARWadsworth wrote:


They look ideal for some rooms. I have got the bedroom in mind. It can just
heat it up for 30 minutes in a morning and an hour at night without all that
tedious business of having to use a normal TRV.


Yes, indeed. It will only of course heat up when the rest of the system
is on - since there's no boiler trigger like with a conventional zone valve.

There are 4 variants shown on the SF site, and I've been trying to
figure out the differences - which is not helped by the fact that SF
seem to have got the pictures and descriptions screwed up!

Looking on the Pegler site instead, I have come to the following
conclusions:

The models with a 'v' after the number include the 'wet' part of the
valve whereas those without are intended simply to replace the head on
an existing valve, and come with a range of adapters to fit different makes.

The '30' models are designed to be mounted vertically, and the '35'
models horizontally.

Does that sound reasonable?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote:
On 13/10/2010 19:32, ARWadsworth wrote:


They look ideal for some rooms. I have got the bedroom in mind. It
can just heat it up for 30 minutes in a morning and an hour at night
without all that tedious business of having to use a normal TRV.


Yes, indeed. It will only of course heat up when the rest of the
system is on - since there's no boiler trigger like with a conventional
zone
valve.
There are 4 variants shown on the SF site, and I've been trying to
figure out the differences - which is not helped by the fact that SF
seem to have got the pictures and descriptions screwed up!

Looking on the Pegler site instead, I have come to the following
conclusions:

The models with a 'v' after the number include the 'wet' part of the
valve whereas those without are intended simply to replace the head on
an existing valve, and come with a range of adapters to fit different
makes.
The '30' models are designed to be mounted vertically, and the '35'
models horizontally.

Does that sound reasonable?

Yes. The displays match with the orientation of the valve.

What I don't believe is the 30% saving on heating costs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Aaf...layer_embedded

I suppose that the 30% saving is compared to a house with no TRVs and the
heating is on full blast in every room whenever the heating is on.

--
Adam

In article , Roger Mills
writes
On 13/10/2010 19:32, ARWadsworth wrote:


They look ideal for some rooms. I have got the bedroom in mind. It can just
heat it up for 30 minutes in a morning and an hour at night without all that
tedious business of having to use a normal TRV.


Yes, indeed. It will only of course heat up when the rest of the system
is on - since there's no boiler trigger like with a conventional zone valve.

There are 4 variants shown on the SF site, and I've been trying to
figure out the differences - which is not helped by the fact that SF
seem to have got the pictures and descriptions screwed up!

Looking on the Pegler site instead, I have come to the following
conclusions:

The models with a 'v' after the number include the 'wet' part of the
valve whereas those without are intended simply to replace the head on
an existing valve, and come with a range of adapters to fit different makes.

The '30' models are designed to be mounted vertically, and the '35'
models horizontally.

Does that sound reasonable?

Yep, think you have it sussed.

For that price point I think they're excellent, at a 10-15quid premium
on a quality TRV I think they'll do well.

An excellent solution for anyone at home during the day and wanting to
shut off a a few rooms but leave the main areas with heat.

Not sure if the prices might rise once they become established, they're
well discounted from the (centrally controlled) Honeywell offerings.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On 13/10/2010 21:48, fred wrote:


Yep, think you have it sussed.

For that price point I think they're excellent, at a 10-15quid premium
on a quality TRV I think they'll do well.

An excellent solution for anyone at home during the day and wanting to
shut off a a few rooms but leave the main areas with heat.

Not sure if the prices might rise once they become established, they're
well discounted from the (centrally controlled) Honeywell offerings.

I wonder what battery life is like. Presumably, in addition to driving
the electronics - which is trivial - the battery also has to drive a
motor to open and close the valve - which is a fair bit more demanding.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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In article , Roger Mills wrote:

Not sure if the prices might rise once they become established, they're
well discounted from the (centrally controlled) Honeywell offerings.

I wonder what battery life is like. Presumably, in addition to driving
the electronics - which is trivial - the battery also has to drive a
motor to open and close the valve - which is a fair bit more demanding.

The instructions suggest they do work that way, but they don't necessarily
have to - you can imagine a design equivalent to having a timer operated
bit clamped around a standard TRV where the motor twiddles the existing
manual setting ring, and the valve opening and closing when cycling doesn't
use the motor so long as the setting doesn't change.

Presumably the Honeywell ones have to do the same work plus run the radio
for the central control.

(At some point I want to see if I can reuse some of the (wired) zone valves
from my now removed upstairs underfloor heating as zone valves for the
radiators that replaced it. It was old Nu-Heat pipes that rotted.)

On 14/10/2010 08:51, Alan Braggins wrote:
In , Roger Mills wrote:

I wonder what battery life is like. Presumably, in addition to driving
the electronics - which is trivial - the battery also has to drive a
motor to open and close the valve - which is a fair bit more demanding.

The instructions suggest they do work that way, but they don't necessarily
have to - you can imagine a design equivalent to having a timer operated
bit clamped around a standard TRV where the motor twiddles the existing
manual setting ring, and the valve opening and closing when cycling doesn't
use the motor so long as the setting doesn't change.


Are you saying that you could, in theory, retain the wax capsule to
provide temperature control, and just use a motor to rotate the whole
thing at the on and off times?

That would probably be more expensive, and wouldn't allow you to set
different temperatures at different times of the day - but simply to
turn it on and off at whatever temperature the wax bit is set at.

I assume that these Pegler jobbies fully close the valve during OFF
periods, and control it during ON periods in order to achieve the set
room temperature. I wonder whether they apply analog proportionality in
the same way as a normal TRV, or whether they just fully open or fully
close the valve.

On the power and zone control issue, it would be nice to see a cabled
version - with the cable both carrying power from an external source and
providing a switching function to drive boiler demand.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Roger Mills wrote:

I assume that these Pegler jobbies fully close the valve during OFF
periods, and control it during ON periods in order to achieve the set
room temperature.

From
http://www.saveonheatingbills.co.uk/helpSupport/FAQ.html

Q. What happens when the valve is not in use?

A The valve never completely closes, however the valve will reduce it’s flow to allow the minimum energy efficiency setting programmed, and in addition the lowest setting is 5 deg C (frost setting).

Q. What happens to the valve when the room reaches its desired temperature?

A When the valve reaches its temperature the valve will start to close, and as the temperature drops the valve will reopen to maintain the temperature set, this will cycle continuously within that set period. valve never closes the lowest the valve will be Minimum it will set is to 5c difference, it cycles to maintain that temp

I'm not quite sure about the wording of that last paragraph, but
the above is pasted from the FAQ.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In article , Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/10/2010 08:51, Alan Braggins wrote:
In , Roger Mills wrote:

I wonder what battery life is like. Presumably, in addition to driving
the electronics - which is trivial - the battery also has to drive a
motor to open and close the valve - which is a fair bit more demanding.

The instructions suggest they do work that way, but they don't necessarily
have to - you can imagine a design equivalent to having a timer operated
bit clamped around a standard TRV where the motor twiddles the existing
manual setting ring, and the valve opening and closing when cycling doesn't
use the motor so long as the setting doesn't change.

Are you saying that you could, in theory, retain the wax capsule to
provide temperature control, and just use a motor to rotate the whole
thing at the on and off times?

In theory. It would probably be bulkier as well as more complicated and
expensive, even if you integrated it rather than actually clamping onto
the outside of a standard TRV.


That would probably be more expensive, and wouldn't allow you to set
different temperatures at different times of the day - but simply to
turn it on and off at whatever temperature the wax bit is set at.

No, it could set different temperatures by having the motor turn the
control by different amounts, just as you do when changing the setting
manually on a normal TRV. (It never really turns off, just turns the
temperature setting down to 5C/frost protect. The boiler and system
pump might be off, but that's separate.)

For even more complication, once you had reduced the power requirements,
you could stick a heatsink and thermelectric generator in it to power it
from the hot water without batteries or wires :-)

fred wrote:
writes

Yes, indeed. It will only of course heat up when the rest of the system
is on - since there's no boiler trigger like with a conventional zone valve.

That could well be a bit of a problem.

For that price point I think they're excellent, at a 10-15quid premium
on a quality TRV I think they'll do well.

An excellent solution for anyone at home during the day and wanting to
shut off a a few rooms but leave the main areas with heat.

Although I am usually at home all day, I have been surprised for
how much of the year it remains perfectly comfortable to have the
heating off from about 8 am until 4 pm. If it gets really chilly
outside, the living room gas fire is probably more economical
than firing up the boiler.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 14/10/2010 12:39, Alan Braggins wrote:
In , Roger Mills wrote:


That would probably be more expensive, and wouldn't allow you to set
different temperatures at different times of the day - but simply to
turn it on and off at whatever temperature the wax bit is set at.

No, it could set different temperatures by having the motor turn the
control by different amounts, just as you do when changing the setting
manually on a normal TRV.

Fair comment. The best you'd get though is open loop control - whereas I
presume that by motoring the valve in response to temperature changes,
you can get closer to closed loop control.


For even more complication, once you had reduced the power requirements,
you could stick a heatsink and thermelectric generator in it to power it
from the hot water without batteries or wires :-)

An interesting thought! You'd have to somehow ensure that when the
system shuts down, the valve is fully open - otherwise when it starts up
again there not be any hot water flow to power it!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article , Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/10/2010 12:39, Alan Braggins wrote:

For even more complication, once you had reduced the power requirements,
you could stick a heatsink and thermelectric generator in it to power it
from the hot water without batteries or wires :-)

An interesting thought! You'd have to somehow ensure that when the
system shuts down, the valve is fully open - otherwise when it starts up
again there not be any hot water flow to power it!

I was imagining you would want a supercapacitor (or rechargeable battery)
so that a slow steady power from the generator could be matched to the
intermittent load from the motor, so that would handle startup (at least
to some extent, maybe not the first one of the year).
(And it wasn't a serious suggestion.)