I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired - there
is no gas in the area.
When I had a new boiler fitted at a previous home, a bungalow, the CH side
was pressurised. It worked brilliantly as the previously luke warm
radiators in the attic room suddenly became as hot as the other radiators
and were no longer air traps.
The HW was fed from a storage tank in the loft, pressure was OK downstairs
but there was a monsoon pump fitted to supply the upstairs bathroom.
What are the group's views on a new system fitted from scratch, in this
case in a 2 storey house with a loft that could contain a storage tank.
Don't know anything about water pressure in the house yet. But starting
from scratch my options are pretty open, subject to any national/local
regulations.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)

Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage
heaters. I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil
fired - there is no gas in the area.
When I had a new boiler fitted at a previous home, a bungalow, the CH
side was pressurised. It worked brilliantly as the previously luke
warm radiators in the attic room suddenly became as hot as the other
radiators and were no longer air traps.

That gives the impression of a poorly designed system that was drawing air
into the system. The new boiler set up probably cured that problem.

The HW was fed from a storage tank in the loft, pressure was OK
downstairs but there was a monsoon pump fitted to supply the upstairs
bathroom. What are the group's views on a new system fitted from scratch,
in
this case in a 2 storey house with a loft that could contain a
storage tank. Don't know anything about water pressure in the house
yet. But starting from scratch my options are pretty open, subject to
any national/local regulations.

You could start here

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/plumbing/he...ngsystems.html

Anything that avoids a pump for the bathroom water is good:-)
--
Adam

On 29/08/2010 in message yRueo.43813$RS2.20688@hurricane ARWadsworth
wrote:

That gives the impression of a poorly designed system that was drawing air
into the system. The new boiler set up probably cured that problem.

You're dead right there! When bleeding that rad I took the brass core out
and put my finger over the hole, nearly got sucked into the radiator.

You could start here

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/plumbing/he...ngsystems.html

Anything that avoids a pump for the bathroom water is good:-)

That's interesting, thanks :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
640k ought to be enough for anyone.
(Bill Gates, 1981)

On 29/08/2010 10:44, Jeff Gaines wrote:

I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage
heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired -
there is no gas in the area.
When I had a new boiler fitted at a previous home, a bungalow, the CH
side was pressurised. It worked brilliantly as the previously luke warm
radiators in the attic room suddenly became as hot as the other
radiators and were no longer air traps.
The HW was fed from a storage tank in the loft, pressure was OK
downstairs but there was a monsoon pump fitted to supply the upstairs
bathroom.
What are the group's views on a new system fitted from scratch, in this
case in a 2 storey house with a loft that could contain a storage tank.
Don't know anything about water pressure in the house yet. But starting
from scratch my options are pretty open, subject to any national/local
regulations.


If a thermal store appeals then there's lots of info he

http://www.heatweb.com/

XCel is the way ahead: Mains pressure HW, no header tank, flexible with
heat sources (any combination of boiler, solar, ground source,
immersion, solid fuel).

I installed one last year. One day when I build my "grand design" it
will have one as well.

On 31/08/2010 in message Vortex7 wrote:

If a thermal store appeals then there's lots of info he

http://www.heatweb.com/

XCel is the way ahead: Mains pressure HW, no header tank, flexible with
heat sources (any combination of boiler, solar, ground source, immersion,
solid fuel).

I installed one last year. One day when I build my "grand design" it will
have one as well.

They do look interesting. Can they really supply enough "on demand" hot
water to fill a bath?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

On 31/08/2010 09:53, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 31/08/2010 in message Vortex7 wrote:

If a thermal store appeals then there's lots of info he

http://www.heatweb.com/

XCel is the way ahead: Mains pressure HW, no header tank, flexible
with heat sources (any combination of boiler, solar, ground source,
immersion, solid fuel).

I installed one last year. One day when I build my "grand design" it
will have one as well.

They do look interesting. Can they really supply enough "on demand" hot
water to fill a bath?


No problem at all. In fact multiple baths.

The store typically sits at circa 70C. The boiler fills the store
directly from the top downwards and is set up for 75C "flow". Recovery
is very rapid indeed (I have a 28kW boiler)

Solar is indirect by the way (antifreeze is expensive).

These stores also make for a very elegant solution with UFH....which my
as yet undesigned "grand design" will have

In article ,
Vortex7 wrote:
XCel is the way ahead: Mains pressure HW, no header tank, flexible with
heat sources (any combination of boiler, solar, ground source,
immersion, solid fuel).

Mains pressure hot water round here would be a nightmare. It would take
forever to fill a bath.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 31/08/2010 10:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
XCel is the way ahead: Mains pressure HW, no header tank, flexible with
heat sources (any combination of boiler, solar, ground source,
immersion, solid fuel).

Mains pressure hot water round here would be a nightmare. It would take
forever to fill a bath.


I have a reverse nightmare. 10.8 bar rising main.

I use a regulator to take this to about 2 bar, which makes things
somewhat less alarming when you fill the kettle.....also stops the
garden hose fittings constantly shooting off.

Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 31/08/2010 in message Vortex7 wrote:

If a thermal store appeals then there's lots of info he

http://www.heatweb.com/

XCel is the way ahead: Mains pressure HW, no header tank, flexible
with heat sources (any combination of boiler, solar, ground source,
immersion, solid fuel).

I installed one last year. One day when I build my "grand design" it
will have one as well.

They do look interesting. Can they really supply enough "on demand" hot
water to fill a bath?

Dunno, but a simple pressurised tank can, and they are cheaper. Not sure
what the difference is really.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Vortex7 wrote:
XCel is the way ahead: Mains pressure HW, no header tank, flexible with
heat sources (any combination of boiler, solar, ground source,
immersion, solid fuel).

Mains pressure hot water round here would be a nightmare. It would take
forever to fill a bath.

It couldn't take longer than a header tank, because if there wasnt
pressure to fill the header tank, you would have no water at all

So mains pressure will ALWAYS be higher than header tank pressure.

Only time a tank makes sense is when the actual flow rate of the mains
is pathetic. But that's something to take up with the water company.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mains pressure hot water round here would be a nightmare. It would take
forever to fill a bath.

It couldn't take longer than a header tank, because if there wasnt
pressure to fill the header tank, you would have no water at all

So mains pressure will ALWAYS be higher than header tank pressure.

It's only actual flow rates that matter in practice.

Only time a tank makes sense is when the actual flow rate of the mains
is pathetic. But that's something to take up with the water company.

Adequate is their response.

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Aug 29, 10:44*am, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired - there
is no gas in the area.


I konw that the cost is not everything, but I'd carefully work out how
long it will take to recover the installation and running costs of the
oil fired system. It could be that electric is actually best.

Robert

On 31/08/2010 in message

RobertL wrote:

On Aug 29, 10:44*am, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage
heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired - there
is no gas in the area.


I konw that the cost is not everything, but I'd carefully work out how
long it will take to recover the installation and running costs of the
oil fired system. It could be that electric is actually best.

Fair comment, Robert.
I'm in the limbo you always end up in buying a house in England and using
the time to think & plan :-)

--
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
(Groucho Marx)

RobertL wrote:
On Aug 29, 10:44 am, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired - there
is no gas in the area.


I konw that the cost is not everything, but I'd carefully work out how
long it will take to recover the installation and running costs of the
oil fired system. It could be that electric is actually best.

Robert

With a heat pump, its cost competitive right now with oil or gas but oh!
the installation costs...

On 31 Aug, 15:26, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On Aug 29, 10:44 am, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired - there
is no gas in the area.

I konw that the cost is not everything, but I'd carefully work out how
long it will take to recover the installation and running costs of the
oil fired system. It could be that electric is actually best.

Robert

With a heat pump, its cost competitive right now with oil or gas but oh!
the installation costs...

presume you refer to the "slinkies in the vast trenches" collector
pipes?
what happened to the "single borehole" approach?

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On 31 Aug, 15:26, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On Aug 29, 10:44 am, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired - there
is no gas in the area.
I konw that the cost is not everything, but I'd carefully work out how
long it will take to recover the installation and running costs of the
oil fired system. It could be that electric is actually best.
Robert
With a heat pump, its cost competitive right now with oil or gas but oh!
the installation costs...

presume you refer to the "slinkies in the vast trenches" collector
pipes?
what happened to the "single borehole" approach?


Even MORE expensive!

And the heatpumps are horrendously priced, too. Cashing in on eco bollox.

AND you have to design the whole plumbing round them. No small bore high
temp stuff here. Its all lots of quite warm water, not a little bloody
hot water!

So UFH, bigger rads, and booster immersion heaters for the tank..and
THAT has to have a far larger heating coil rear to work off the warmish
water.

Or use a heatbank in between.

Jim K

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On Aug 29, 10:44 am, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage
heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired -
there
is no gas in the area.


I konw that the cost is not everything, but I'd carefully work out how
long it will take to recover the installation and running costs of the
oil fired system. It could be that electric is actually best.

Robert

With a heat pump, its cost competitive right now with oil or gas but oh!
the installation costs...

Heat pumps do, of course, include air conditioning. I'm not sure how
sunken pipe systems rate, but air conditioning equipment definitely gets
you brownie points in energy efficiency surveys.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
RobertL wrote:
On Aug 29, 10:44 am, "Jeff Gaines" wrote:
I am hoping to move to a house which currently is heated by storage
heaters.
I will probably want to have central heating installed, oil fired -
there
is no gas in the area.


I konw that the cost is not everything, but I'd carefully work out how
long it will take to recover the installation and running costs of the
oil fired system. It could be that electric is actually best.

Robert

With a heat pump, its cost competitive right now with oil or gas but
oh! the installation costs...

Heat pumps do, of course, include air conditioning.

No, mostly they dont.

Those cost EVEN MORE!!!

I'm not sure how
sunken pipe systems rate, but air conditioning equipment definitely gets
you brownie points in energy efficiency surveys.


Cant imagine why.

Colin Bignell