Is it possible to buy such a thing?

I don't have the facilities for making one myself.

What I mean is a pencil split in half lenghtways so that even the lead is
cut in half, which can be used for scribing.

On Jun 8, 8:59*pm, "Bren" wrote:
Is it possible to buy such a thing?

I don't have the facilities for making one myself.

What I mean is a pencil split in half lenghtways so that even the lead is
cut in half, which can be used for scribing.

If you sharpen one of the ends (either of the short sides) you can
use whole pencils for scribing. So why do half a job?

I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:16:07 -0700 (PDT), Weatherlawyer
wrote:

On Jun 8, 8:59*pm, "Bren" wrote:
Is it possible to buy such a thing?

I don't have the facilities for making one myself.

What I mean is a pencil split in half lenghtways so that even the lead is
cut in half, which can be used for scribing.

If you sharpen one of the ends (either of the short sides) you can
use whole pencils for scribing. So why do half a job?

To get half marks, of course :-)

--
Frank Erskine

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

You hit the nail on the head! That's exactly why I need it. From your
description it should be easy enough to make my own. Thanks.

Bren wrote:
Is it possible to buy such a thing?

I don't have the facilities for making one myself.

What I mean is a pencil split in half lenghtways so that even the
lead is cut in half, which can be used for scribing.

Then you wouldn't have enough lead in your pencil surely?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! - when
I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged, other
guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need a half
pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might end up
getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged, other
guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need a half
pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might end up
getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a line
on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to. Obviously it
would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as the lead would
probably be above the top of the nut.

On 8 June, 20:59, "Bren" wrote:
Is it possible to buy such a thing?

Buy a 2mm mechanical pencil from Steadtler (blue and chrome) -
wonderful things. Better balance than the dark green Faber-Castell
ones.

Use a spare lead, bare.

It's thin enough for precision, thick enough to be usable without
snapping if you breathe on it.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 8 June, 20:59, "Bren" wrote:
Is it possible to buy such a thing?

Buy a 2mm mechanical pencil from Steadtler (blue and chrome) -
wonderful things. Better balance than the dark green Faber-Castell
ones.

Use a spare lead, bare.

It's thin enough for precision, thick enough to be usable without
snapping if you breathe on it.

I guess you mean 0.2 mm? I regularly put a 0.5 mm lead "in shot" in macro
pictures to provide a scale, but being a hairy arsed engineer I find 0.9 mm
the best for actually working with!

newshound wrote:


"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 8 June, 20:59, "Bren" wrote:
Is it possible to buy such a thing?

Buy a 2mm mechanical pencil from Steadtler (blue and chrome) -
wonderful things. Better balance than the dark green Faber-Castell
ones.

Use a spare lead, bare.

It's thin enough for precision, thick enough to be usable without
snapping if you breathe on it.

I guess you mean 0.2 mm? I regularly put a 0.5 mm lead "in shot" in
macro pictures to provide a scale, but being a hairy arsed engineer I
find 0.9 mm the best for actually working with!

http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Sta...lder.html#a967

On 9 June, 12:38, "newshound" wrote:
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

Buy a 2mm mechanical pencil from Steadtler (blue and chrome) -
wonderful things. Better balance than the dark green Faber-Castell
ones.

I guess you mean 0.2 mm? I regularly put a 0.5 mm lead "in shot" in macro
pictures to provide a scale, but being a hairy arsed engineer I find 0.9 mm
the best for actually working with!

If your arse is that hairy, get a 2mm one (a shade under 1/12th of an
inch). Doesn't snap, still accepts a decent point, can be used for
sketching and comes in grades from 6B to 9H

"Dave Osborne" wrote


I guess you mean 0.2 mm? I regularly put a 0.5 mm lead "in shot" in macro
pictures to provide a scale, but being a hairy arsed engineer I find 0.9
mm the best for actually working with!

0.9mm?
Anything above 0.7mm ceases to be a technical implement and falls into the
realms of impressionist art!

"TheScullster" wrote in message
. uk...

"Dave Osborne" wrote


I guess you mean 0.2 mm? I regularly put a 0.5 mm lead "in shot" in
macro pictures to provide a scale, but being a hairy arsed engineer I
find 0.9 mm the best for actually working with!

0.9mm?
Anything above 0.7mm ceases to be a technical implement and falls into the
realms of impressionist art!

Perhaps I should have explained, this is not for drawing but for
calculations. Pencil for rubbing out mistakes. For most of the sums I do (in
tribology) a factor of 2 can be described as accurate.

"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged,
other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need a
half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might end
up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a line
on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to. Obviously it
would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as the lead would
probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand the
bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal buzz.
I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings make their
own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be handy to have
another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the angles and curves of
the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above fret height to aim for,
or is this a matter of string and tension personal preference? The oft used
'zero fret' would indicate not much clearance at the nut at all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

"newshound" wrote in message
...


"TheScullster" wrote in message
. uk...

"Dave Osborne" wrote


I guess you mean 0.2 mm? I regularly put a 0.5 mm lead "in shot" in
macro pictures to provide a scale, but being a hairy arsed engineer I
find 0.9 mm the best for actually working with!

0.9mm?
Anything above 0.7mm ceases to be a technical implement and falls into
the realms of impressionist art!

Perhaps I should have explained, this is not for drawing but for
calculations. Pencil for rubbing out mistakes. For most of the sums I do
(in tribology) a factor of 2 can be described as accurate.
Ah. Oily fingers and stopwatches: that takes me back. Took ages to get rid
of the dermatitis!

S

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:fkQPn.49436$jh6.14538@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged,
other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need a
half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might end
up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a
line on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to.
Obviously it would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as the
lead would probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand the
bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal buzz.
I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings make
their own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be handy to
have another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the angles and
curves of the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above fret height
to aim for, or is this a matter of string and tension personal preference?
The oft used 'zero fret' would indicate not much clearance at the nut at
all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

I am assuming you are talking about an acoustic guitar which normally has a
much higher string/fretboard clearance than electrics. If you go to the
Fender website you can download setup guides which give recommended string
clearances at various points on the fretboard for Strats and Teles etc. For
example, if you put a capo on the first fret and hold down the bass E string
at the last fret, the distance between the bottom of that string and the top
of the 8th fret should be about .005" - roughly the thickness of a business
card. I'm in the process of setting up a cheap Strat copy I got on eBay as
a project and have managed to get the string clearance at various parts of
the fretboard in the 'ballpark' of the distances recommended by Fender. The
problem is that open chords such as the open D or G sound out of tune
compared to a fully fretted G (F shape) played at the 3rd fret. This seems
to indicate that the nut slots are cut too high which leads to undue
pressure fretting strings near the nut. I would rather not go down the
route you use of filing down the base of the nut as this would involve
removing it - it's probably glued down - cleaning up the leftover glue etc
and getting the correct camber on the bottom of the nut. That's assuming I
could remove the nut without breaking it!



If all manufacturers were to put a 'zero fret' on their guitars we wouldn't
have this problem because they would be forced to set them up properly
before they left the factory. Unfortunately most of them have dropped this
option years ago - probably to save costs.



Another problem I have is to locate files of the correct diameter for
cutting the nut slots. These should be just fractionally wider than the
width of the respective strings so, in theory, I would need six different
files to cut the nut slots for the six different diameter strings. What I
am using is junior hacksaw blades. For the plain strings I have hammered
out the offset so they cut perfectly straight and I'm using ordinary blades
for the wound strings which I twist slightly to get a wider slot as
appropriate. It's not an ideal solution but guitar setup tools are very
expensive and most have to be imported from the US.

Bren wrote:
"spamlet" wrote in message
news:fkQPn.49436$jh6.14538@hurricane...
"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...
"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...
"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n
Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged,
other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need a
half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might end
up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a
line on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to.
Obviously it would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as the
lead would probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand the
bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal buzz.
I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings make
their own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be handy to
have another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the angles and
curves of the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above fret height
to aim for, or is this a matter of string and tension personal preference?
The oft used 'zero fret' would indicate not much clearance at the nut at
all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

I am assuming you are talking about an acoustic guitar which normally has a
much higher string/fretboard clearance than electrics. If you go to the
Fender website you can download setup guides which give recommended string
clearances at various points on the fretboard for Strats and Teles etc. For
example, if you put a capo on the first fret and hold down the bass E string
at the last fret, the distance between the bottom of that string and the top
of the 8th fret should be about .005" - roughly the thickness of a business
card. I'm in the process of setting up a cheap Strat copy I got on eBay as
a project and have managed to get the string clearance at various parts of
the fretboard in the 'ballpark' of the distances recommended by Fender. The
problem is that open chords such as the open D or G sound out of tune
compared to a fully fretted G (F shape) played at the 3rd fret. This seems
to indicate that the nut slots are cut too high which leads to undue
pressure fretting strings near the nut. I would rather not go down the
route you use of filing down the base of the nut as this would involve
removing it - it's probably glued down - cleaning up the leftover glue etc
and getting the correct camber on the bottom of the nut. That's assuming I
could remove the nut without breaking it!



If all manufacturers were to put a 'zero fret' on their guitars we wouldn't
have this problem because they would be forced to set them up properly
before they left the factory. Unfortunately most of them have dropped this
option years ago - probably to save costs.



Another problem I have is to locate files of the correct diameter for
cutting the nut slots. These should be just fractionally wider than the
width of the respective strings so, in theory, I would need six different
files to cut the nut slots for the six different diameter strings. What I
am using is junior hacksaw blades. For the plain strings I have hammered
out the offset so they cut perfectly straight and I'm using ordinary blades
for the wound strings which I twist slightly to get a wider slot as
appropriate. It's not an ideal solution but guitar setup tools are very
expensive and most have to be imported from the US.


That pretty much the way I watched Jim Burns do HIS guitars.

Hacksaw, and needle files.Out of solid brass..

I've always done it by ear, eye and fret buzz.

"Bren" wrote in message
...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:fkQPn.49436$jh6.14538@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged,
other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need
a half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might
end up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a
line on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to.
Obviously it would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as
the lead would probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand the
bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal buzz.
I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings make
their own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be handy to
have another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the angles and
curves of the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above fret height
to aim for, or is this a matter of string and tension personal
preference? The oft used 'zero fret' would indicate not much clearance at
the nut at all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

I am assuming you are talking about an acoustic guitar which normally has
a much higher string/fretboard clearance than electrics. If you go to the
Fender website you can download setup guides which give recommended string
clearances at various points on the fretboard for Strats and Teles etc.
For example, if you put a capo on the first fret and hold down the bass E
string at the last fret, the distance between the bottom of that string
and the top of the 8th fret should be about .005" - roughly the thickness
of a business card. I'm in the process of setting up a cheap Strat copy I
got on eBay as a project and have managed to get the string clearance at
various parts of the fretboard in the 'ballpark' of the distances
recommended by Fender. The problem is that open chords such as the open D
or G sound out of tune compared to a fully fretted G (F shape) played at
the 3rd fret. This seems to indicate that the nut slots are cut too high
which leads to undue pressure fretting strings near the nut. I would
rather not go down the route you use of filing down the base of the nut as
this would involve removing it - it's probably glued down - cleaning up
the leftover glue etc and getting the correct camber on the bottom of the
nut. That's assuming I could remove the nut without breaking it!



If all manufacturers were to put a 'zero fret' on their guitars we
wouldn't have this problem because they would be forced to set them up
properly before they left the factory. Unfortunately most of them have
dropped this option years ago - probably to save costs.



Another problem I have is to locate files of the correct diameter for
cutting the nut slots. These should be just fractionally wider than the
width of the respective strings so, in theory, I would need six different
files to cut the nut slots for the six different diameter strings. What I
am using is junior hacksaw blades. For the plain strings I have hammered
out the offset so they cut perfectly straight and I'm using ordinary
blades for the wound strings which I twist slightly to get a wider slot as
appropriate. It's not an ideal solution but guitar setup tools are very
expensive and most have to be imported from the US.


Haven't done any of this for a while, but nut replacement is a common
requirement and I seem to recall it only took something like a hot iron to
warm them up and slide them off. I'm sure you used to be able to buy them
with the slots already in over the counter along with your latest selection
of picks.

My experience of others using electric guitars is that they tend to have the
strings almost touching the frets: which we'd never get away with on
acoustic. Your nut might indeed be unusually high if you are going out of
tune even on the third fret. If you have the variable length type bridge
assembly you may be able to take some of this difference out by lengthening
the thicker strings... However, as you have the G s on the first and sixth
strings in common whether you are using the bar chord or the 'full' version,
you do at least have two notes you can count on as a reference, and it would
probably be the ones in between that may need to comedown a bit. However,
there is always a bit of a compromise, and you may find if you get 'G'
'right', you can't quite get another key right without minor adjustments as
you go: which is why, I've noticed, that a lot of guitars have the strings
locked down at the machine head end, and have small screws for making minor
adjustments as you go at the bridge end.

Also, are your frets all evenly worn, or are you having to push some strings
harder than others to reach them: too low frets can be almost as painful as
too high in their own way (especially if you have finger nails...).

Another thing that may come into play is the neck may be twisted. If you
take the strings off and peer down the neck, do the frets all look parallel
and in the same plane? Best to make sure frets and neck are at optimum
before going on to the finer adjustments - but I expect you have already
done that.

S

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Bren wrote:
"spamlet" wrote in message
news:fkQPn.49436$jh6.14538@hurricane...
"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...
"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...
"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n
Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged,
other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need
a half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might
end up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a
line on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to.
Obviously it would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as
the lead would probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand the
bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal buzz.
I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings make
their own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be handy to
have another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the angles and
curves of the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above fret height
to aim for, or is this a matter of string and tension personal
preference? The oft used 'zero fret' would indicate not much clearance
at the nut at all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

I am assuming you are talking about an acoustic guitar which normally has
a much higher string/fretboard clearance than electrics. If you go to
the Fender website you can download setup guides which give recommended
string clearances at various points on the fretboard for Strats and Teles
etc. For example, if you put a capo on the first fret and hold down the
bass E string at the last fret, the distance between the bottom of that
string and the top of the 8th fret should be about .005" - roughly the
thickness of a business card. I'm in the process of setting up a cheap
Strat copy I got on eBay as a project and have managed to get the string
clearance at various parts of the fretboard in the 'ballpark' of the
distances recommended by Fender. The problem is that open chords such as
the open D or G sound out of tune compared to a fully fretted G (F shape)
played at the 3rd fret. This seems to indicate that the nut slots are
cut too high which leads to undue pressure fretting strings near the nut.
I would rather not go down the route you use of filing down the base of
the nut as this would involve removing it - it's probably glued down -
cleaning up the leftover glue etc and getting the correct camber on the
bottom of the nut. That's assuming I could remove the nut without
breaking it!



If all manufacturers were to put a 'zero fret' on their guitars we
wouldn't have this problem because they would be forced to set them up
properly before they left the factory. Unfortunately most of them have
dropped this option years ago - probably to save costs.



Another problem I have is to locate files of the correct diameter for
cutting the nut slots. These should be just fractionally wider than the
width of the respective strings so, in theory, I would need six
different files to cut the nut slots for the six different diameter
strings. What I am using is junior hacksaw blades. For the plain
strings I have hammered out the offset so they cut perfectly straight and
I'm using ordinary blades for the wound strings which I twist slightly to
get a wider slot as appropriate. It's not an ideal solution but guitar
setup tools are very expensive and most have to be imported from the US.


That pretty much the way I watched Jim Burns do HIS guitars.

Hacksaw, and needle files.Out of solid brass..

I've always done it by ear, eye and fret buzz.


Wow, you knew Jim Burns - he's a legend!

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:8tTPn.52364$jh6.46609@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:fkQPn.49436$jh6.14538@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged,
other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need
a half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might
end up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a
line on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to.
Obviously it would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as
the lead would probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand the
bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal buzz.
I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings make
their own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be handy to
have another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the angles and
curves of the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above fret height
to aim for, or is this a matter of string and tension personal
preference? The oft used 'zero fret' would indicate not much clearance
at the nut at all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

I am assuming you are talking about an acoustic guitar which normally has
a much higher string/fretboard clearance than electrics. If you go to
the Fender website you can download setup guides which give recommended
string clearances at various points on the fretboard for Strats and Teles
etc. For example, if you put a capo on the first fret and hold down the
bass E string at the last fret, the distance between the bottom of that
string and the top of the 8th fret should be about .005" - roughly the
thickness of a business card. I'm in the process of setting up a cheap
Strat copy I got on eBay as a project and have managed to get the string
clearance at various parts of the fretboard in the 'ballpark' of the
distances recommended by Fender. The problem is that open chords such as
the open D or G sound out of tune compared to a fully fretted G (F shape)
played at the 3rd fret. This seems to indicate that the nut slots are
cut too high which leads to undue pressure fretting strings near the nut.
I would rather not go down the route you use of filing down the base of
the nut as this would involve removing it - it's probably glued down -
cleaning up the leftover glue etc and getting the correct camber on the
bottom of the nut. That's assuming I could remove the nut without
breaking it!



If all manufacturers were to put a 'zero fret' on their guitars we
wouldn't have this problem because they would be forced to set them up
properly before they left the factory. Unfortunately most of them have
dropped this option years ago - probably to save costs.



Another problem I have is to locate files of the correct diameter for
cutting the nut slots. These should be just fractionally wider than the
width of the respective strings so, in theory, I would need six
different files to cut the nut slots for the six different diameter
strings. What I am using is junior hacksaw blades. For the plain
strings I have hammered out the offset so they cut perfectly straight and
I'm using ordinary blades for the wound strings which I twist slightly to
get a wider slot as appropriate. It's not an ideal solution but guitar
setup tools are very expensive and most have to be imported from the US.


Haven't done any of this for a while, but nut replacement is a common
requirement and I seem to recall it only took something like a hot iron to
warm them up and slide them off. I'm sure you used to be able to buy them
with the slots already in over the counter along with your latest
selection of picks.

My experience of others using electric guitars is that they tend to have
the strings almost touching the frets: which we'd never get away with on
acoustic. Your nut might indeed be unusually high if you are going out of
tune even on the third fret. If you have the variable length type bridge
assembly you may be able to take some of this difference out by
lengthening the thicker strings... However, as you have the G s on the
first and sixth strings in common whether you are using the bar chord or
the 'full' version, you do at least have two notes you can count on as a
reference, and it would probably be the ones in between that may need to
comedown a bit. However, there is always a bit of a compromise, and you
may find if you get 'G' 'right', you can't quite get another key right
without minor adjustments as you go: which is why, I've noticed, that a
lot of guitars have the strings locked down at the machine head end, and
have small screws for making minor adjustments as you go at the bridge
end.

Are you referring to the intonation adjusters?
Cos they are for setting accurate octaves at fret 12.

Also, are your frets all evenly worn, or are you having to push some
strings harder than others to reach them: too low frets can be almost as
painful as too high in their own way (especially if you have finger
nails...).

Another thing that may come into play is the neck may be twisted. If you
take the strings off and peer down the neck, do the frets all look
parallel and in the same plane? Best to make sure frets and neck are at
optimum before going on to the finer adjustments - but I expect you have
already done that.

S

On Jun 9, 8:06*pm, "Bren" wrote:

[stuff around string height and setting up]

To be pedantic, it's not as straightforward as getting a zero fret, as
(at a finer level) the intonation depends on things like string
diameter and material as well. You might also consider the change in
tension wrought by fretting the string at a given fret ... the
temperature, etc etc.

And then there's the whole issue of 'temperament' as well. You might
look up the Buzz Feiten system, as well as 'earvana' nuts, for
approaches to the issue.

I agree that guitar setup tools are expensive in the UK. For slotting
my nuts (!) I too have used variations of a needle file, and a
flattened hacksaw blade. Also useful as a poor man's set of nut files
is a tip cleaner for welding guns:

http://www.weldinggear.co.uk/Gas-Con...eaners/NOZZLE-
TIP-CLEANING-SET_331.htm

The chinese versions of this are pretty poor but cheap (via eBay), the
US ones better but more pricey. Still a lot cheaper than a set of
StewMac nut files though. I've used these over & above a saw blade
because it seems to me that having the bottom of the channel
(half-)round must be A Good Idea.

HTH
J^n

"brass monkey" wrote in message
...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:8tTPn.52364$jh6.46609@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:fkQPn.49436$jh6.14538@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the
pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're
engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish
it! - when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and
bridged, other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would
ever need a half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to
hand it might end up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the
correct height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can
make a line on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut
to. Obviously it would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil
as the lead would probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand
the bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal
buzz. I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings
make their own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be
handy to have another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the
angles and curves of the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above
fret height to aim for, or is this a matter of string and tension
personal preference? The oft used 'zero fret' would indicate not much
clearance at the nut at all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

I am assuming you are talking about an acoustic guitar which normally
has a much higher string/fretboard clearance than electrics. If you go
to the Fender website you can download setup guides which give
recommended string clearances at various points on the fretboard for
Strats and Teles etc. For example, if you put a capo on the first fret
and hold down the bass E string at the last fret, the distance between
the bottom of that string and the top of the 8th fret should be about
.005" - roughly the thickness of a business card. I'm in the process
of setting up a cheap Strat copy I got on eBay as a project and have
managed to get the string clearance at various parts of the fretboard in
the 'ballpark' of the distances recommended by Fender. The problem is
that open chords such as the open D or G sound out of tune compared to a
fully fretted G (F shape) played at the 3rd fret. This seems to
indicate that the nut slots are cut too high which leads to undue
pressure fretting strings near the nut. I would rather not go down the
route you use of filing down the base of the nut as this would involve
removing it - it's probably glued down - cleaning up the leftover glue
etc and getting the correct camber on the bottom of the nut. That's
assuming I could remove the nut without breaking it!



If all manufacturers were to put a 'zero fret' on their guitars we
wouldn't have this problem because they would be forced to set them up
properly before they left the factory. Unfortunately most of them have
dropped this option years ago - probably to save costs.



Another problem I have is to locate files of the correct diameter for
cutting the nut slots. These should be just fractionally wider than the
width of the respective strings so, in theory, I would need six
different files to cut the nut slots for the six different diameter
strings. What I am using is junior hacksaw blades. For the plain
strings I have hammered out the offset so they cut perfectly straight
and I'm using ordinary blades for the wound strings which I twist
slightly to get a wider slot as appropriate. It's not an ideal solution
but guitar setup tools are very expensive and most have to be imported
from the US.


Haven't done any of this for a while, but nut replacement is a common
requirement and I seem to recall it only took something like a hot iron
to warm them up and slide them off. I'm sure you used to be able to buy
them with the slots already in over the counter along with your latest
selection of picks.

My experience of others using electric guitars is that they tend to have
the strings almost touching the frets: which we'd never get away with on
acoustic. Your nut might indeed be unusually high if you are going out
of tune even on the third fret. If you have the variable length type
bridge assembly you may be able to take some of this difference out by
lengthening the thicker strings... However, as you have the G s on the
first and sixth strings in common whether you are using the bar chord or
the 'full' version, you do at least have two notes you can count on as a
reference, and it would probably be the ones in between that may need to
comedown a bit. However, there is always a bit of a compromise, and you
may find if you get 'G' 'right', you can't quite get another key right
without minor adjustments as you go: which is why, I've noticed, that a
lot of guitars have the strings locked down at the machine head end, and
have small screws for making minor adjustments as you go at the bridge
end.

Are you referring to the intonation adjusters?
Cos they are for setting accurate octaves at fret 12.

Sounds like that maybe what they are called. Different
weights/densites/tempers of string will require slightly different lengths
to vibrate at the same pitch: assuming my physics isn't totally rusty
here... Even on fret 12 you can still find if you ping it, you get a
slightly different pitch than when you fret it: but if you lower thestring
to reduce this, you get buzz instead... So many variables, it largely comes
down to personal taste in the end, what feels right for the user. Each
guitar has its own personality, and you can always find a tune or style that
suits any particular one: I have one cheap rubbish kids one, with totally
knackered strings, but held the right way it makes a nice banjo sound...

S


Also, are your frets all evenly worn, or are you having to push some
strings harder than others to reach them: too low frets can be almost as
painful as too high in their own way (especially if you have finger
nails...).

Another thing that may come into play is the neck may be twisted. If you
take the strings off and peer down the neck, do the frets all look
parallel and in the same plane? Best to make sure frets and neck are at
optimum before going on to the finer adjustments - but I expect you have
already done that.

S

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:8tTPn.52364$jh6.46609@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:fkQPn.49436$jh6.14538@hurricane...

"Bren" wrote in message
o.uk...

"spamlet" wrote in message
news:ytyPn.84694$QF7.71818@hurricane...

"jkn" wrote in message
...
I'm guessing you want this to mark off a guitar nut or saddle blank
for sanding down or notching?

You just need a penknife blade or stanley knife, to split the pencil,
and a bit of sandpaper to sand down the graphite core afterwards.

It's terribly easy - if you think you 'don't have the facilities' to
do this, I recommend you think again about the project you're engaged
in...

J^n

Now you've got me?
I made a guitar - well almost: term wasn't long enough to finish it! -
when I was at school, and since, I've refretted; nutted and bridged,
other guitars occasionally, but I cannot imagine why I would ever need
a half pencil (although, I dare say, that if one was to hand it might
end up getting *used* as a nut or saddle...)?

S
You can use it to make sure the string slots in the nut are the correct
height. If you place it flat along two or three frets you can make a
line on the nut which tells you the depth they should be cut to.
Obviously it would not be possible to do this with a 'full' pencil as
the lead would probably be above the top of the nut.
Ah, I see.

I think my technique to now has been to cut the slots, and then sand the
bottom of the nut until I had a comfortable fingering and minimal buzz.
I've tended not to have slots in saddles, but to let the strings make
their own - bridges usually being adjustable. Yes it would be handy to
have another fixed point at the nut, before going on to the angles and
curves of the neck and fretwire. Is there a 'correct' above fret height
to aim for, or is this a matter of string and tension personal
preference? The oft used 'zero fret' would indicate not much clearance
at the nut at all.


Interesting, and unusual question.

S

I am assuming you are talking about an acoustic guitar which normally has
a much higher string/fretboard clearance than electrics. If you go to
the Fender website you can download setup guides which give recommended
string clearances at various points on the fretboard for Strats and Teles
etc. For example, if you put a capo on the first fret and hold down the
bass E string at the last fret, the distance between the bottom of that
string and the top of the 8th fret should be about .005" - roughly the
thickness of a business card. I'm in the process of setting up a cheap
Strat copy I got on eBay as a project and have managed to get the string
clearance at various parts of the fretboard in the 'ballpark' of the
distances recommended by Fender. The problem is that open chords such as
the open D or G sound out of tune compared to a fully fretted G (F shape)
played at the 3rd fret. This seems to indicate that the nut slots are
cut too high which leads to undue pressure fretting strings near the nut.
I would rather not go down the route you use of filing down the base of
the nut as this would involve removing it - it's probably glued down -
cleaning up the leftover glue etc and getting the correct camber on the
bottom of the nut. That's assuming I could remove the nut without
breaking it!



If all manufacturers were to put a 'zero fret' on their guitars we
wouldn't have this problem because they would be forced to set them up
properly before they left the factory. Unfortunately most of them have
dropped this option years ago - probably to save costs.



Another problem I have is to locate files of the correct diameter for
cutting the nut slots. These should be just fractionally wider than the
width of the respective strings so, in theory, I would need six
different files to cut the nut slots for the six different diameter
strings. What I am using is junior hacksaw blades. For the plain
strings I have hammered out the offset so they cut perfectly straight and
I'm using ordinary blades for the wound strings which I twist slightly to
get a wider slot as appropriate. It's not an ideal solution but guitar
setup tools are very expensive and most have to be imported from the US.


Haven't done any of this for a while, but nut replacement is a common
requirement and I seem to recall it only took something like a hot iron to
warm them up and slide them off. I'm sure you used to be able to buy them
with the slots already in over the counter along with your latest
selection of picks.

My experience of others using electric guitars is that they tend to have
the strings almost touching the frets: which we'd never get away with on
acoustic. Your nut might indeed be unusually high if you are going out of
tune even on the third fret. If you have the variable length type bridge
assembly you may be able to take some of this difference out by
lengthening the thicker strings... However, as you have the G s on the
first and sixth strings in common whether you are using the bar chord or
the 'full' version, you do at least have two notes you can count on as a
reference, and it would probably be the ones in between that may need to
comedown a bit. However, there is always a bit of a compromise, and you
may find if you get 'G' 'right', you can't quite get another key right
without minor adjustments as you go: which is why, I've noticed, that a
lot of guitars have the strings locked down at the machine head end, and
have small screws for making minor adjustments as you go at the bridge
end.

Also, are your frets all evenly worn, or are you having to push some
strings harder than others to reach them: too low frets can be almost as
painful as too high in their own way (especially if you have finger
nails...).

Another thing that may come into play is the neck may be twisted. If you
take the strings off and peer down the neck, do the frets all look
parallel and in the same plane? Best to make sure frets and neck are at
optimum before going on to the finer adjustments - but I expect you have
already done that.

S
The intonation on the guitar is OK. That's one of the first things I
checked. Guitars with a nut lock are usually fitted with a 'Floyd Rose'
type vibrato. Mine has a bog standard old Fender type of vibrato. The
frets are not worn at all but one or two seem a little high. That's another
problem I will have to tackle but they are not in the lower part of the
fretboard so are not the cause of the guitar playing out of tune comparing
between open chords and fully fretted ones. The neck is very straight now
after adjusting the truss rod and is not twisted. The fret ends were very
sharp when I first got the guitar - so sharp that you could easily cut your
hand by running it up the neck - but I have filed these down and they are
very smooth now.

"jkn" wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 8:06 pm, "Bren" wrote:

[stuff around string height and setting up]

To be pedantic, it's not as straightforward as getting a zero fret, as
(at a finer level) the intonation depends on things like string
diameter and material as well. You might also consider the change in
tension wrought by fretting the string at a given fret ... the
temperature, etc etc.

And then there's the whole issue of 'temperament' as well. You might
look up the Buzz Feiten system, as well as 'earvana' nuts, for
approaches to the issue.

I agree that guitar setup tools are expensive in the UK. For slotting
my nuts (!) I too have used variations of a needle file, and a
flattened hacksaw blade. Also useful as a poor man's set of nut files
is a tip cleaner for welding guns:

http://www.weldinggear.co.uk/Gas-Con...eaners/NOZZLE-
TIP-CLEANING-SET_331.htm

The chinese versions of this are pretty poor but cheap (via eBay), the
US ones better but more pricey. Still a lot cheaper than a set of
StewMac nut files though. I've used these over & above a saw blade
because it seems to me that having the bottom of the channel
(half-)round must be A Good Idea.

HTH
J^n

That sounds like a good idea. I'll give them a try. Thanks for the tip (no
pun intended )