I'm about to re-jig a bathroom where the bath waste is piped in solvent
weld pipe which is 43mm in diameter, and the fittings say 43mm.

However, no-one seems to sell 43mm waste pipe - it is all listed as
40mm! Looking for clues via Google seems to suggest that the OD of 40mm
solvent weld pipe IS 43mm (presumably with the ID being 40mm)- but I
cannot find an explicit statement to this effect.

Can anyone re-assure me that, if I buy some "40mm" pipe and fittings,
they will marry up ok with the existing 43mm (actual) pipe?

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I'm about to re-jig a bathroom where the bath waste is piped in solvent
weld pipe which is 43mm in diameter, and the fittings say 43mm.

However, no-one seems to sell 43mm waste pipe - it is all listed as 40mm!
Looking for clues via Google seems to suggest that the OD of 40mm solvent
weld pipe IS 43mm (presumably with the ID being 40mm)- but I cannot find
an explicit statement to this effect.

Can anyone re-assure me that, if I buy some "40mm" pipe and fittings, they
will marry up ok with the existing 43mm (actual) pipe?

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.


It's always been a bit of a puzzle to me why the size of the pipes that go,
say around the loo cistern, is always slightly different to the generality
of plumbing pipes and fittings. As a result there is often a bit of a bodge
found where service attaches to fitting. Why they can't just have one
standard set of sizes...

S

On 8 June, 19:35, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm about to re-jig a bathroom where the bath waste is piped in solvent
weld pipe which is 43mm in diameter, and the fittings say 43mm.

However, no-one seems to sell 43mm waste pipe - it is all listed as
40mm! Looking for clues via Google seems to suggest that the OD of 40mm
solvent weld pipe IS 43mm (presumably with the ID being 40mm)- but I
cannot find an explicit statement to this effect.

Can anyone re-assure me that, if I buy some "40mm" pipe and fittings,
they will marry up ok with the existing 43mm (actual) pipe?

measure it before you buy it?

buy a "40mm" compression waste joint from Wickes and if it doesn't fit
your existing pipe take it back and think again?

NB have a bit of push fit pipe here and it's 40mm OD...

Jim K

On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 19:35:01 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

Can anyone re-assure me that, if I buy some "40mm" pipe and fittings,
they will marry up ok with the existing 43mm (actual) pipe?

No, but if you buy 40mm *solvent weld* (ABS or PVC) pipe and fittings they
will marry up with the existing pipe. If you buy *push-fit* (Polypropylene
- PP) pipe and fittings they won't match as they're smaller diameter. If
you need to join one system to another you can use compression fittings,
special push-fit couplers which fit the larger solvent-weld pipe,
or an 'expansion joint' which is a coupler with one solvent weld socket
and one push-fit socket. I've found the latter at B&Q, but the special
push-fit/push-fit couplers only at BES (and maybe some other 'proper'
plumbers' merchants).

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Thank God I'm an atheist

On 08/06/2010 21:55, YAPH wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 19:35:01 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

Can anyone re-assure me that, if I buy some "40mm" pipe and fittings,
they will marry up ok with the existing 43mm (actual) pipe?

No, but if you buy 40mm *solvent weld* (ABS or PVC) pipe and fittings they
will marry up with the existing pipe.

Are you absolutely sure? The reason I ask is this: In the Screwfix
catalogue there are some FloPlast ABS solvent weld pipes and fittings
which are stated to comply with BS EN 1455-1:2000. I've just looked up
the standard, and that appears to say that 40mm pipe has an OD of 40mm
(max 40.3)- which *wouldn't* be compatible with the existing pipe, which
definitely measures 43mm.

I am confused!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On Jun 8, 10:20 pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 08/06/2010 21:55, YAPH wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 19:35:01 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

Can anyone re-assure me that, if I buy some "40mm" pipe and fittings,
they will marry up ok with the existing 43mm (actual) pipe?

No, but if you buy 40mm *solvent weld* (ABS or PVC) pipe and fittings they
will marry up with the existing pipe.

Are you absolutely sure? The reason I ask is this: In the Screwfix
catalogue there are some FloPlast ABS solvent weld pipes and fittings
which are stated to comply with BS EN 1455-1:2000. I've just looked up
the standard, and that appears to say that 40mm pipe has an OD of 40mm
(max 40.3)- which *wouldn't* be compatible with the existing pipe, which
definitely measures 43mm.

and yet BES.co.uk has:-
"Solvent weld waste system to BS 5255, kitemarked, (EN1455-1). ABS.
The nominal sizes of the pipe (32, 40 and 50 mm) refer to the
approximate inside diameters of the pipe."

what/how are you measuring it?

Jim K

On Jun 8, 9:55 pm, YAPH wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 19:35:01 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:
Can anyone re-assure me that, if I buy some "40mm" pipe and fittings,
they will marry up ok with the existing 43mm (actual) pipe?

No, but if you buy 40mm *solvent weld* (ABS or PVC) pipe and fittings they
will marry up with the existing pipe. If you buy *push-fit* (Polypropylene
- PP) pipe and fittings they won't match as they're smaller diameter. If
you need to join one system to another you can use compression fittings,
special push-fit couplers which fit the larger solvent-weld pipe,
or an 'expansion joint' which is a coupler with one solvent weld socket
and one push-fit socket. I've found the latter at B&Q, but the special
push-fit/push-fit couplers only at BES

John can you plse point me at these? I have goggled (even using
site:bes.co.uk) and they aren;t forthcoming; BES' search is cr@p as
usual....

Cheers
Jim K

On 08/06/2010 22:59, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:20 pm, Roger wrote:


Are you absolutely sure? The reason I ask is this: In the Screwfix
catalogue there are some FloPlast ABS solvent weld pipes and fittings
which are stated to comply with BS EN 1455-1:2000. I've just looked up
the standard, and that appears to say that 40mm pipe has an OD of 40mm
(max 40.3)- which *wouldn't* be compatible with the existing pipe, which
definitely measures 43mm.

and yet BES.co.uk has:-
"Solvent weld waste system to BS 5255, kitemarked, (EN1455-1). ABS.
The nominal sizes of the pipe (32, 40 and 50 mm) refer to the
approximate inside diameters of the pipe."

what/how are you measuring it?

Jim K

I'm measuring the OUTSIDE diameter of the pipe. [I didn't have my
vernier calipers with me at the time, and so used an adjustable spanner
and tape-rule - but this was certainly good enough to tell the
difference between 40mm and 43mm.] The fittings had 43mm embossed on them.

This would certainly stack up with having an ID of 40 - but the BES
information appears to be at variance with what the standard itself
says. Maybe I'd better have another look at the standard in case I've
misread it.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On Jun 8, 11:58*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
This would certainly stack up with having an ID of 40 - but the BES
information appears to be at variance with what the standard itself
says. Maybe I'd better have another look at the standard in case I've
misread it.
I agree with information from the other replies. I've only known one
size of solvent weld and its fittings/pipes seem to be interchangeable
across manufacturers. If you are still not convinced, buy all new
solvent weld and then compression couplers to fit to the old stuff
were it goes into the wall or floor. The best compression fittings are
MacAlpine rather than the cheapo generic stuff. You'll have to go into
a merchant to get those.

Dave.

On 08/06/2010 23:58, Roger Mills wrote:
On 08/06/2010 22:59, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:20 pm, Roger wrote:



I'm measuring the OUTSIDE diameter of the pipe. [I didn't have my
vernier calipers with me at the time, and so used an adjustable spanner
and tape-rule - but this was certainly good enough to tell the
difference between 40mm and 43mm.] The fittings had 43mm embossed on them.

This would certainly stack up with having an ID of 40 - but the BES
information appears to be at variance with what the standard itself
says. Maybe I'd better have another look at the standard in case I've
misread it.

OK, it didn't help that I was looking at BS EN 1451 instead of 1455 -
but the result is *almost* the same.

the nominal sizes are still based on OUTSIDE diameter, but there are TWO
series:

Table 1 for pipes based on metric dimensions - which has a 40mm pipe -
and Table 2 for pipes based on inch dimensions - which has a 43mm pipe.

So unless anyone still supplies pipe complying with Table 2, it looks
like I'm stuck with having to bodge 43 and 40 mm pipe together. Lovely!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Jun 9, 12:14 am, Roger Mills wrote:
On 08/06/2010 23:58, Roger Mills wrote:

On 08/06/2010 22:59, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:20 pm, Roger wrote:

I'm measuring the OUTSIDE diameter of the pipe. [I didn't have my
vernier calipers with me at the time, and so used an adjustable spanner
and tape-rule - but this was certainly good enough to tell the
difference between 40mm and 43mm.] The fittings had 43mm embossed on them.

This would certainly stack up with having an ID of 40 - but the BES
information appears to be at variance with what the standard itself
says. Maybe I'd better have another look at the standard in case I've
misread it.

OK, it didn't help that I was looking at BS EN 1451 instead of 1455 -
but the result is *almost* the same.

the nominal sizes are still based on OUTSIDE diameter, but there are TWO
series:

Table 1 for pipes based on metric dimensions - which has a 40mm pipe -
and Table 2 for pipes based on inch dimensions - which has a 43mm pipe.

So unless anyone still supplies pipe complying with Table 2, it looks
like I'm stuck with having to bodge 43 and 40 mm pipe together. Lovely!

let us (and future readers) know how you get on

Jim K

On 09/06/10 09:36, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 12:14 am, Roger wrote:
On 08/06/2010 23:58, Roger Mills wrote:

On 08/06/2010 22:59, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:20 pm, Roger wrote:

I'm measuring the OUTSIDE diameter of the pipe. [I didn't have my
vernier calipers with me at the time, and so used an adjustable spanner
and tape-rule - but this was certainly good enough to tell the
difference between 40mm and 43mm.] The fittings had 43mm embossed on them.

This would certainly stack up with having an ID of 40 - but the BES
information appears to be at variance with what the standard itself
says. Maybe I'd better have another look at the standard in case I've
misread it.

OK, it didn't help that I was looking at BS EN 1451 instead of 1455 -
but the result is *almost* the same.

the nominal sizes are still based on OUTSIDE diameter, but there are TWO
series:

Table 1 for pipes based on metric dimensions - which has a 40mm pipe -
and Table 2 for pipes based on inch dimensions - which has a 43mm pipe.

So unless anyone still supplies pipe complying with Table 2, it looks
like I'm stuck with having to bodge 43 and 40 mm pipe together. Lovely!

let us (and future readers) know how you get on

Jim K

If the OP can wait until later today, I've got some 40mm solvent weld
work to do. I'll measure mine then. Have a feeling all my "40mm" is
marked 43mm OD so that's probably correct and that spans at least Marley
and Floplast if not another maker too.

As long as it is a good fit in the joint and both parts or uPVC and/or
ABS and they fit snugly, they can be welded with teh appropriate cement.
For everything else, there's universal compression joints which are very
forgiving (eg you'll find this type of joint on most modern U traps so
you can shove any pipe of the same nominal size on.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Jun 9, 10:09 am, Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/06/10 09:36, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 9, 12:14 am, Roger wrote:
On 08/06/2010 23:58, Roger Mills wrote:

On 08/06/2010 22:59, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 8, 10:20 pm, Roger wrote:

I'm measuring the OUTSIDE diameter of the pipe. [I didn't have my
vernier calipers with me at the time, and so used an adjustable spanner
and tape-rule - but this was certainly good enough to tell the
difference between 40mm and 43mm.] The fittings had 43mm embossed on them.

This would certainly stack up with having an ID of 40 - but the BES
information appears to be at variance with what the standard itself
says. Maybe I'd better have another look at the standard in case I've
misread it.

OK, it didn't help that I was looking at BS EN 1451 instead of 1455 -
but the result is *almost* the same.

the nominal sizes are still based on OUTSIDE diameter, but there are TWO
series:

Table 1 for pipes based on metric dimensions - which has a 40mm pipe -
and Table 2 for pipes based on inch dimensions - which has a 43mm pipe.

So unless anyone still supplies pipe complying with Table 2, it looks
like I'm stuck with having to bodge 43 and 40 mm pipe together. Lovely!

let us (and future readers) know how you get on

Jim K

If the OP can wait until later today, I've got some 40mm solvent weld
work to do. I'll measure mine then. Have a feeling all my "40mm" is
marked 43mm OD so that's probably correct and that spans at least Marley
and Floplast if not another maker too.

As long as it is a good fit in the joint and both parts or uPVC and/or
ABS and they fit snugly, they can be welded with teh appropriate cement.
For everything else, there's universal compression joints which are very
forgiving (eg you'll find this type of joint on most modern U traps so
you can shove any pipe of the same nominal size on.


yup.

I encouraged the OP to do both on day 1.... ;)

Cheers
Jim K

On 09/06/2010 09:36, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 12:14 am, Roger wrote:


OK, it didn't help that I was looking at BS EN 1451 instead of 1455 -
but the result is *almost* the same.

the nominal sizes are still based on OUTSIDE diameter, but there are TWO
series:

Table 1 for pipes based on metric dimensions - which has a 40mm pipe -
and Table 2 for pipes based on inch dimensions - which has a 43mm pipe.

So unless anyone still supplies pipe complying with Table 2, it looks
like I'm stuck with having to bodge 43 and 40 mm pipe together. Lovely!

let us (and future readers) know how you get on

Jim K

OK - latest installment!

Went to a PM today, and they had some fittings marked BS EN 1566 (rather
than 1455) and, embossed on them, it said "40mm (OD 43mm)" and, for the
smaller size "32mm (OD 36mm)" - both of which look as if they should
fit. Yippee!

HOWEVER, they're made of PVC rather than ABS. Early on in this thread,
someone said "make sure you get ABS". Does it really matter? Can I mix
and match? [Some solvent/adhesive claims to be ok for either]. How do I
tell which sort the existing stuff is?

I asked the bloke at the PM whether they had equivalent fittings in ABS,
and he said "No".

So, just supposing the old stuff is ABS, what happens if I try to weld a
bit of old ABS pipe into a new PVC fitting?

If I *can't* do that, I'll need to replace a lot more stuff - including
bath and basin traps - with new, and just have a single connection
between old and new using a compression fitting - or maybe something
like Screwfix 81383. [The universal compression coupler (11980) is much
cheaper - but it doesn't say what range of sizes it accommodates].

I would much rather use solvent weld on this principal old to new joint
because it will shortly become inaccessible - and it's just above
someone else's ceiling, so I can't afford any leaks!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On Jun 9, 9:10 pm, Roger Mills wrote:
On 09/06/2010 09:36, Jim K wrote:



On Jun 9, 12:14 am, Roger wrote:

OK, it didn't help that I was looking at BS EN 1451 instead of 1455 -
but the result is *almost* the same.

the nominal sizes are still based on OUTSIDE diameter, but there are TWO
series:

Table 1 for pipes based on metric dimensions - which has a 40mm pipe -
and Table 2 for pipes based on inch dimensions - which has a 43mm pipe.

So unless anyone still supplies pipe complying with Table 2, it looks
like I'm stuck with having to bodge 43 and 40 mm pipe together. Lovely!

let us (and future readers) know how you get on

Jim K

OK - latest installment!

Went to a PM today, and they had some fittings marked BS EN 1566 (rather
than 1455) and, embossed on them, it said "40mm (OD 43mm)" and, for the
smaller size "32mm (OD 36mm)" - both of which look as if they should
fit. Yippee!

HOWEVER, they're made of PVC rather than ABS. Early on in this thread,
someone said "make sure you get ABS". Does it really matter? Can I mix
and match? [Some solvent/adhesive claims to be ok for either]. How do I
tell which sort the existing stuff is?

I asked the bloke at the PM whether they had equivalent fittings in ABS,
and he said "No".

So, just supposing the old stuff is ABS, what happens if I try to weld a
bit of old ABS pipe into a new PVC fitting?



google on here for Floplast solvent weld cement - IIRC it does both
and was mentioned recently...

Jim K

On 09/06/10 21:10, Roger Mills wrote:
On 09/06/2010 09:36, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 9, 12:14 am, Roger wrote:


OK, it didn't help that I was looking at BS EN 1451 instead of 1455 -
but the result is *almost* the same.

the nominal sizes are still based on OUTSIDE diameter, but there are TWO
series:

Table 1 for pipes based on metric dimensions - which has a 40mm pipe -
and Table 2 for pipes based on inch dimensions - which has a 43mm pipe.

So unless anyone still supplies pipe complying with Table 2, it looks
like I'm stuck with having to bodge 43 and 40 mm pipe together. Lovely!

let us (and future readers) know how you get on

Jim K

OK - latest installment!

Went to a PM today, and they had some fittings marked BS EN 1566 (rather
than 1455) and, embossed on them, it said "40mm (OD 43mm)" and, for the
smaller size "32mm (OD 36mm)" - both of which look as if they should
fit. Yippee!

HOWEVER, they're made of PVC rather than ABS. Early on in this thread,
someone said "make sure you get ABS". Does it really matter? Can I mix
and match? [Some solvent/adhesive claims to be ok for either]. How do I
tell which sort the existing stuff is?

No, because I said "get a multipurpose cement which does both"

Here's there proof:

http://www.floplast.co.uk/pages.asp?...5341&catid=282
http://www.floplast.co.uk/pages.asp?...1915&catid=282

Notice the code numbers of the cement in both pages...

And here it is:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/14295/...t-Cement-250ml

I asked the bloke at the PM whether they had equivalent fittings in ABS,
and he said "No".

He might not, but most of mine are.

Possibly he keeps uPVC because it's sunproof (ie outside gully
connections). ABS isn't so much. And he doesn;t want to stock 2 sets of
everything?...

So, just supposing the old stuff is ABS, what happens if I try to weld a
bit of old ABS pipe into a new PVC fitting?

If I *can't* do that, I'll need to replace a lot more stuff - including
bath and basin traps - with new, and just have a single connection
between old and new using a compression fitting - or maybe something
like Screwfix 81383. [The universal compression coupler (11980) is much
cheaper - but it doesn't say what range of sizes it accommodates].

I would much rather use solvent weld on this principal old to new joint
because it will shortly become inaccessible - and it's just above
someone else's ceiling, so I can't afford any leaks!


--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 09/06/2010 21:48, Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/06/10 21:10, Roger Mills wrote:


Went to a PM today, and they had some fittings marked BS EN 1566 (rather
than 1455) and, embossed on them, it said "40mm (OD 43mm)" and, for the
smaller size "32mm (OD 36mm)" - both of which look as if they should
fit. Yippee!

HOWEVER, they're made of PVC rather than ABS. Early on in this thread,
someone said "make sure you get ABS". Does it really matter? Can I mix
and match? [Some solvent/adhesive claims to be ok for either]. How do I
tell which sort the existing stuff is?

No, because I said "get a multipurpose cement which does both"

Here's there proof:

http://www.floplast.co.uk/pages.asp?...5341&catid=282
http://www.floplast.co.uk/pages.asp?...1915&catid=282


Thanks - I did know that you can get solvent/adhesive which does both -
i.e. welding ABS to ABS *or* PVC to PVC - but I'm not sure that
*automatically* means that it will weld ABS to PVC. Any comments?

I *hope* it does because it will solve my problem.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On 09/06/10 22:56, Roger Mills wrote:

Thanks - I did know that you can get solvent/adhesive which does both -
i.e. welding ABS to ABS *or* PVC to PVC - but I'm not sure that
*automatically* means that it will weld ABS to PVC. Any comments?

I *hope* it does because it will solve my problem.

It's fine AFAIK. The Floplast SC250 isn't just solvent - it is very
loaded with filler in solution (ie it is very gloopy). The filler is
compatible with ABS and uPVC. Mostly I would expect your join interface
to be uPVC|filler|ABS

It's quite good at gap filling if your fittings were sloppy (couple of
mine were) and also, if your fittings are tight dryfitted, they go
together easily once this stuff is on.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 09/06/10 23:08, Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/06/10 22:56, Roger Mills wrote:

Thanks - I did know that you can get solvent/adhesive which does both -
i.e. welding ABS to ABS *or* PVC to PVC - but I'm not sure that
*automatically* means that it will weld ABS to PVC. Any comments?

I *hope* it does because it will solve my problem.

It's fine AFAIK. The Floplast SC250 isn't just solvent - it is very
loaded with filler in solution (ie it is very gloopy). The filler is
compatible with ABS and uPVC. Mostly I would expect your join interface
to be uPVC|filler|ABS

It's quite good at gap filling if your fittings were sloppy (couple of
mine were) and also, if your fittings are tight dryfitted, they go
together easily once this stuff is on.


Oh - you could always ring Floplast technical if you wanted to be sure.
Those sort are usually very helpful

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Jun 9, 11:08 pm, Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/06/10 22:56, Roger Mills wrote:

Thanks - I did know that you can get solvent/adhesive which does both -
i.e. welding ABS to ABS *or* PVC to PVC - but I'm not sure that
*automatically* means that it will weld ABS to PVC. Any comments?

I *hope* it does because it will solve my problem.

It's fine AFAIK. The Floplast SC250 isn't just solvent - it is very
loaded with filler in solution (ie it is very gloopy). The filler is
compatible with ABS and uPVC. Mostly I would expect your join interface
to be uPVC|filler|ABS

It's quite good at gap filling if your fittings were sloppy (couple of
mine were) and also, if your fittings are tight dryfitted, they go
together easily once this stuff is on.

yup just done bathroom wastes and agree 100% re Floplast cement being
good stuff

Jim K