Hi,

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing. The signal strength meters on the humax boxes admin
menu report nothing at all. Perhaps I sould say I am tryng to pick
up freesat.

Anyway I suspect the LNB, a grundig "aus 25", is to old for the
humax and want to buy a more modern LNB. My question is: are the
LNBs physically interchangeable? Most of the dishes seem to use
a collar to hold the LNB, is this true? Are they all the same
diameter?

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing. As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

Fergus McMenemie wrote:

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing.

You might find it "un-aided" but you're picking up a signal from
something the size of a transit van 22,000 miles above Lake Victoria

This site might help

http://www.dishpointer.com/

or you might need to resort to a sat finder meter

http://www.uksatellitehelp.co.uk/200...-how-to-guide/

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing.

You need to be within a degree or better, rather than just in the same
general direction followed by adjusting for a better picture like you
can with an aerial.

As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

Yes, most dishes are offset, so will be looking higher up at the sky
than a direct view from behind, no elevation markings on the mount?

Andy Burns wrote:

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing.

You might find it "un-aided" but you're picking up a signal from
something the size of a transit van 22,000 miles above Lake Victoria

This site might help

http://www.dishpointer.com/


Yep, that is what I used. Excellent site, as long as you know
which Satellite you want.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:14:46 +0100, Fergus McMenemie wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing.

You might find it "un-aided" but you're picking up a signal from
something the size of a transit van 22,000 miles above Lake Victoria

This site might help

http://www.dishpointer.com/

Yep, that is what I used. Excellent site, as long as you know
which Satellite you want.

This might help:

http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-Kingdom.html
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

PeterC wrote:


This might help:

http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-Kingdom.html
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.


Hmmmm that looks a very useful site.

Thanks for the help everyone!

On Wed, 26 May 2010 15:05:21 +0100, (Fergus
McMenemie) wrote:

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing.

You will be extraordinarily lucky to pick anything up if the dish has
been installed purely by estimation, no matter how well done. The
margin for error is very slight, no more than a very few degrees in
both elevation and azimuth.

If you have left the vertical alignment alone you may be able to pick
something up by very slowly moving the aerial in azimuth. This can be
a really tedious process depending upon your receiver as the digital
ones can take minutes to lock onto a new signal and don't always tell
you they are doing anything in the meantime.

You can get simple signal strength meters such as
http://cpc.farnell.com/fortec-star/s...der/dp/AP02049
and it is probably worth getting that or a similar device for your
initial setup particularly if you have altered the vertical alignment.
You _can_ align it all by using just the freesat box alone but it can
easily take you many hours and much annoyance.

When using the signal strength meter note that if you pick up
something on it but your Freesat box still shows nothing it does not
mean the LNB is dead but that you have probably picked up the wrong
satellite. Some Freesat receivers only show Freeesat channels and
refuse to respond at all to other signals.

Peter Parry wrote:


I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing.

You will be extraordinarily lucky to pick anything up if the dish has
been installed purely by estimation, no matter how well done. The
margin for error is very slight, no more than a very few degrees in
both elevation and azimuth.

Thanks for both answers but both missed the point! The dish and its
LNB are very old. Possibly before digital TV sat broadbcasts. Will the
same LNB do? Will the Humax Foxsat work with such and old LNB?

If I have to buy a new LNB, how standard are the fittings. Is this
40mm collar thing a standard?

Thanks Fergus.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Fergus
McMenemie) saying something like:

Thanks for both answers but both missed the point! The dish and its
LNB are very old. Possibly before digital TV sat broadbcasts. Will the
same LNB do? Will the Humax Foxsat work with such and old LNB?

If I have to buy a new LNB, how standard are the fittings. Is this
40mm collar thing a standard?

Pretty much, yes. If the old LNB is old enough it will only be a
standard of the day one, what you need is a modern Universal which has
extra bandwidth. Assuming the old one still works, it would actually
give you some channels, just not all. If it's giving nothing at all,
it's likely banjaxed - not surprising, really.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:14:46 +0100, (Fergus
McMenemie) wrote:

Thanks for both answers but both missed the point! The dish and its
LNB are very old. Possibly before digital TV sat broadbcasts. Will the
same LNB do? Will the Humax Foxsat work with such and old LNB?

It should work. If it is the one Noah used to get BBC and ITV only on
the Ark then it is possibly covering an incomplete frequency band, the
band extended a decade or more ago . The very early LNB models
wouldn't pick up Astra 1d (I think - its a long time ago!). If the
LNB has a frequency of 10GHz marked it is an early model. If it has
9.75 or "universal" it is a later one. You may have to set the LNB
frequency in the foxsat if you can if it is 10GHz as the default will
now be 9.75.

The 40mm collar is fairly standard although I think some 40mm fixing
LNB's need an adapter clip with very early Sky provided mini dishes.
http://cpc.farnell.com/fortec-star/l...lip/dp/AP02048

If the Foxsat has two aerial inputs then get a dual LNB such as
http://cpc.farnell.com/fortec-star/f..._merc h=true&

and connect both to the receiver. If your present LNB is single
output and the Foxsat is a PVR then you will need a dual LNB to be
able to record one channel while watching another.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 15:05:21 +0100 someone who may be
(Fergus McMenemie) wrote this:-

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing.

As Andy said a meter can be very useful. It is generally best to set
the elevation about right, get the direction right and then adjust
the elevation precisely. Only small adjustments are needed when in
the right direction.

As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

Generally there is an offset of 20 degrees in elevation, because of
the offset of the LNB. Dish elevation depends on where you are, in
Scotland the dish is likely to be horizontal or even pointing down
slightly. Further south the dish will be pointing up a little.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

David Hansen wrote:


I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing.

As Andy said a meter can be very useful. It is generally best to set
the elevation about right, get the direction right and then adjust
the elevation precisely. Only small adjustments are needed when in
the right direction.

Never having done this before I was wondering if the "absolute zero"
on the satellites signal strength display was significant. Do they
read a total zero or do they show a 5-10% noise level when off beam?
I would be expecting 5% just due to noise.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:29:29 +0100, (Fergus
McMenemie) wrote:


Never having done this before I was wondering if the "absolute zero"
on the satellites signal strength display was significant. Do they
read a total zero or do they show a 5-10% noise level when off beam?
I would be expecting 5% just due to noise.

In general they read zero when there is no decodable digital signal.
They are not like analogue meters where even a sniff of signal gives
you something to track. Usually you have two related indications
together - signal strength and signal quality. Both refer to the
processed digital signal, not the RF level of the signal. Of the two
indications signal quality is usually the more important.

On Thu, 27 May 2010 10:38:44 +0100, Peter Parry wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:29:29 +0100, (Fergus
McMenemie) wrote:

Never having done this before I was wondering if the "absolute zero"
on the satellites signal strength display was significant. Do they
read a total zero or do they show a 5-10% noise level when off beam?
I would be expecting 5% just due to noise.

In general they read zero when there is no decodable digital signal.
They are not like analogue meters where even a sniff of signal gives
you something to track. Usually you have two related indications
together - signal strength and signal quality. Both refer to the
processed digital signal, not the RF level of the signal. Of the two
indications signal quality is usually the more important.

My box generates Strength and Quality bars on the screen, so I arranged a
large mirror so that I could see the screen from up the ladder, then
'rock'-tuned the dish. This involved finding the signal, checking that it
was the correct satellite (Astra 2) and then moving the dish around so that
it was in the middle of the range that gave the best figures.
This allows things to move/drift a bit without the signal deteriorating too
easily.

Now, if there were a way of 'seeing' through heavy precipitation...
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

"Fergus McMenemie" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing. The signal strength meters on the humax boxes admin
menu report nothing at all. Perhaps I sould say I am tryng to pick
up freesat.

Anyway I suspect the LNB, a grundig "aus 25", is to old for the
humax and want to buy a more modern LNB. My question is: are the
LNBs physically interchangeable? Most of the dishes seem to use
a collar to hold the LNB, is this true? Are they all the same
diameter?

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing. As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

Have X-posted you to alt.satellite.tv.europe.

If it is really old it may be an analog LNB.

Your assumption about vertical positioning may not be correct.
My dish ( a modern one I fitted recently) is not vertical.
I used a satellite finder from Maplin - even then I found the wrong
satellite first.

I did have an analogue system years ago with a tin dish and I set that up
using the satellite decoder and a small TV but I was standing on my balcony
which made things a lot easier.

HTH

Dave R

On 26/05/2010 17:57, David WE Roberts wrote:

"Fergus McMenemie" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing. The signal strength meters on the humax boxes admin
menu report nothing at all. Perhaps I sould say I am tryng to pick
up freesat.

Anyway I suspect the LNB, a grundig "aus 25", is to old for the
humax and want to buy a more modern LNB. My question is: are the
LNBs physically interchangeable? Most of the dishes seem to use
a collar to hold the LNB, is this true? Are they all the same
diameter?

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing. As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

Have X-posted you to alt.satellite.tv.europe.

If it is really old it may be an analog LNB.

Your assumption about vertical positioning may not be correct.
My dish ( a modern one I fitted recently) is not vertical.
I used a satellite finder from Maplin - even then I found the wrong
satellite first.

I did have an analogue system years ago with a tin dish and I set that
up using the satellite decoder and a small TV but I was standing on my
balcony which made things a lot easier.

HTH

Dave R
Unlike the good old analogue days, a digital satellite cannot be set by
watching the picture. With digital nothing shows up until you are very,
very close to the correct position. Then you can only optimise the
position if you have a read-out of the signal strength AND the quality.

The collar on most standard universal LNBs is 40mm but some have
serrations on them which need to be filed off to fit an older clamp.

Older (intended for analogue) LNBs cannot tune the whole K band. That is
why universal LNBs were developed. The Humax - if it is a FreeSat model
- needs to tune to all transponders to function correctly.

LNBs can be had on eBay or from Lidl for around a fiver. If you are
wanting the Freesat channels then a 50/60 cm (~20") dish should be OK.

Good luck.

Dem

Hi, folks.. got it working.

As usual there was not a single issue. I bought and fitted a new LNB
from screw-fit as per this list's advice. I then spent a good hour
messing about on the roof trying to locate the satellite before
discovering a probable bug in the HUMAX that was stopping us seeing
when we were getting signal.

I was not initially impressed with the HUMAX foxsat-hdr. All
the classic signs of really third rate software design,

Information on different screens contradicted each other: the
signal strength/quality meters on "tuning" vis "diagnostics"
screens total disagree with one another for no obvious reason.

Progress meters that hang: the "Searching for Satellite"
message on the tuning screen only seems to mean what it says
for the first minute or so.

The "Searching for Satellite" bug wasted a good hour before we
discovered that you had to keep going back forward on the menu
selections so the machine remembered what it was supposed to be doing.
I reckon I would have got the older LNB working if I had know it was
the HUMAX software that was duff. However once we had that trick
mastered it took few minute or so to aim the dish, but I could not much
better than 100% signal and 60% quality, possibly due the large trees
at the end of next door's garden.

Next I just could not get past the postcode hurdle and reading the
news groups somewhere I found somebody else with the same problem. In
the end it was suggested he consult HUMAX about doing a factory reset.
I tried that, using the 0000 password code. I then went through the
wizard again, while doing so the HUMAX said it had found a software
update. I applied that and the machine rebooted.

I had to go through the wizard again. But this time everything went
perfectly. The signal strength/quality meters now agreed with one
another. The post code check flew by and we got channels.

Everything working fine. I get a good feeling when I am able to
use recycled equipment. In many respeect the HUMAX GUI now seems
much better Panasonic's!

Thanks all.
Demonic wrote:

On 26/05/2010 17:57, David WE Roberts wrote:

"Fergus McMenemie" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing. The signal strength meters on the humax boxes admin
menu report nothing at all. Perhaps I sould say I am tryng to pick
up freesat.

Anyway I suspect the LNB, a grundig "aus 25", is to old for the
humax and want to buy a more modern LNB. My question is: are the
LNBs physically interchangeable? Most of the dishes seem to use
a collar to hold the LNB, is this true? Are they all the same
diameter?

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing. As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

Have X-posted you to alt.satellite.tv.europe.

If it is really old it may be an analog LNB.

Your assumption about vertical positioning may not be correct.
My dish ( a modern one I fitted recently) is not vertical.
I used a satellite finder from Maplin - even then I found the wrong
satellite first.

I did have an analogue system years ago with a tin dish and I set that
up using the satellite decoder and a small TV but I was standing on my
balcony which made things a lot easier.

HTH

Dave R
Unlike the good old analogue days, a digital satellite cannot be set by
watching the picture. With digital nothing shows up until you are very,
very close to the correct position. Then you can only optimise the
position if you have a read-out of the signal strength AND the quality.

The collar on most standard universal LNBs is 40mm but some have
serrations on them which need to be filed off to fit an older clamp.

Older (intended for analogue) LNBs cannot tune the whole K band. That is
why universal LNBs were developed. The Humax - if it is a FreeSat model
- needs to tune to all transponders to function correctly.

LNBs can be had on eBay or from Lidl for around a fiver. If you are
wanting the Freesat channels then a 50/60 cm (~20") dish should be OK.

Good luck.

Dem

After serious thinking Fergus McMenemie wrote :
I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing. As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

Your aiming accuracy needs to be within just a few degrees for both
horizontal and vertical. An offset dish aimed at Astra should be
roughly vertical for most of the UK. A decent compass (making allowance
for magnetic variation) and a bit of wood should get it pointing in the
correct horizontal direction. The signal meter in most receivers is
almost useless, because they respond too slowly to be useful - use an
inline meter. Obvious really, but the dish also needs a clear view of
the sky, in the direction it is aimed.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 26/05/2010 15:05, Fergus McMenemie wrote:
Hi,

Got an old satellite dish from a neighbour, it is a good 20in in
diameter and is well over 10 years old. Set it up and plugged it
in.... nothing. The signal strength meters on the humax boxes admin
menu report nothing at all. Perhaps I sould say I am tryng to pick
up freesat.

Anyway I suspect the LNB, a grundig "aus 25", is to old for the
humax and want to buy a more modern LNB. My question is: are the
LNBs physically interchangeable? Most of the dishes seem to use
a collar to hold the LNB, is this true? Are they all the same
diameter?

I feel quite confident about the dishes direction given advice
on the internet and observation of where my neigbours have their
freesat dishes pointing. As for elevation, I noted that the LNB
was not mounted at the central point of the dish and so assumed
that the dish should be vertical with the off center LNB positioning
sorting things out.

You are wasting your time, you can pick up a freesat HD system for under
£70,including dish,LNB, Decoder and cable.

Yours may be an old Analogue system, the LNB or decoder may be knackered.


--
Regards
Camdor.