Hi.

I've got boxes of books, papers and personal effects which need to be stored
in the garage for a year or so. The garage is unheated and cold/damp in
winter. The stuff needs to be kept dry to stop mildew and mould, so I
need something airtight.

The only thing I've seen is the 'Vac Bag' (http://www.vac-bags.co.uk/) but
this looks a bit clumsy. (From what I can tell it's just a very large
plastic bag with replaceable drying-agent; it appears to be sealed with a
cable-tie and doesn't use vacuum at all!)

Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

Cheers,

Steve

On 25/05/2010 15:41, Steve wrote:
Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

I've got loads of stuff in storage in an outbuilding at the moment. We
just wrapped it up using pallet wrap (like industrial size clingfilm)
taking care not to leave holes.

If you're still worried about damp you can buy silica gel type stuff in
large quantities from caravan suppliers. Or cat litter might be a
cheaper alternative.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
On 25/05/2010 15:41, Steve wrote:
Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

I've got loads of stuff in storage in an outbuilding at the moment. We
just wrapped it up using pallet wrap (like industrial size clingfilm)
taking care not to leave holes.

If you're still worried about damp you can buy silica gel type stuff in
large quantities from caravan suppliers. Or cat litter might be a cheaper
alternative.

Thanks Jim. I'd not heard of pallet-wrap - sounds interesting. I'll
investigate.

Steve was thinking very hard :
Hi.

I've got boxes of books, papers and personal effects which need to be stored
in the garage for a year or so. The garage is unheated and cold/damp in
winter. The stuff needs to be kept dry to stop mildew and mould, so I need
something airtight.

The only thing I've seen is the 'Vac Bag' (http://www.vac-bags.co.uk/) but
this looks a bit clumsy. (From what I can tell it's just a very large plastic
bag with replaceable drying-agent; it appears to be sealed with a cable-tie
and doesn't use vacuum at all!)

Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

Cheers,

Steve

Have you considered the proper vacuum bags designed to be filled with
clothes, bedding etc. where you then use a vacuum to draw all/ most of
the air out? I would imagine they must self seal and hold the vacuum,
just add some silica gell to make sure it stays dry.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Steve was thinking very hard :
Hi.
..
..
Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?


Have you considered the proper vacuum bags designed to be filled with
clothes, bedding etc. where you then use a vacuum to draw all/ most of the
air out? I would imagine they must self seal and hold the vacuum, just add
some silica gell to make sure it stays dry.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)

Thanks Harry. That sounds like it should work. I'll investigate. Cheers.
Steve

Steve wrote:
Hi.

I've got boxes of books, papers and personal effects which need to be
stored in the garage for a year or so. The garage is unheated and
cold/damp in winter. The stuff needs to be kept dry to stop mildew
and mould, so I need something airtight.

The only thing I've seen is the 'Vac Bag'
(http://www.vac-bags.co.uk/) but this looks a bit clumsy. (From what
I can tell it's just a very large plastic bag with replaceable
drying-agent; it appears to be sealed with a cable-tie and doesn't
use vacuum at all!)
Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

Cheers,

Steve

JML "sucky bags" as my daughter calls them
http://www.jmldirect.com/Vac-Pack-Large-PV2010/ (that links to the large
size but there's others there) or you can rent storage from 16sq ft very
cheaply from www.safestore.co.uk that is not cold/damp.

On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:41:52 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:


Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

Any form of vacuum bag will fail in that sort of environment and draw
moist air into the goods. If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry then double bagging them tightly in good
quality black binbags (seal the first bag with tape then wrap again
and sea again) and placing them in cardboard boxes will be fine. Make
sure you don't put the boxes directly on the floor or directly
against a wall. Put them on pallets to keep them off the floor and
use something such as pallets on their side or sheets of polystyrene
or kingspan to prevent them pushing up against the wall.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:41:52 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:


Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

Any form of vacuum bag will fail in that sort of environment and draw
moist air into the goods. If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry then double bagging them tightly in good
quality black binbags (seal the first bag with tape then wrap again
and sea again) and placing them in cardboard boxes will be fine. Make
sure you don't put the boxes directly on the floor or directly
against a wall. Put them on pallets to keep them off the floor and
use something such as pallets on their side or sheets of polystyrene
or kingspan to prevent them pushing up against the wall.

What makes you say that?

If the items were carefully loaded into the vacuum bag (The bags wouldnt
need to be vacuumed out, we just need a sealed bag here), then boxed up and
stored off the ground, what would make the bags fail in a way that a
standard, thinner bin bag will be better?

Toby...

On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:06:01 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

"Peter Parry" wrote in message

Any form of vacuum bag will fail in that sort of environment and draw
moist air into the goods. If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry then double bagging them tightly in good
quality black binbags (seal the first bag with tape then wrap again
and sea again) and placing them in cardboard boxes will be fine. Make
sure you don't put the boxes directly on the floor or directly
against a wall. Put them on pallets to keep them off the floor and
use something such as pallets on their side or sheets of polystyrene
or kingspan to prevent them pushing up against the wall.

What makes you say that?

Because vacuum bags are not perfectly sealed and slowly leak. When
they leak in the damp atmosphere of a garage they draw moist air into
the package to fill the low pressure in the bag. In this respect they
can be worse than a leaky conventional ambient pressure bag.

If the items were carefully loaded into the vacuum bag (The bags wouldnt
need to be vacuumed out, we just need a sealed bag here), then boxed up and
stored off the ground, what would make the bags fail in a way that a
standard, thinner bin bag will be better?

If you don't use them as vacuum bags then they just become normal bags
and will do nearly as well as bin bags albeit at significantly greater
expense. I had rather assumed that talking about vacuum bags presumed
they would be used as such.

The bin bag advantage, apart from cost, is that they conform to shape
well and you can double or triple bag them at negligible cost but
minimising the potential for a small leak compared with a single
heavier gauge bag.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:41:52 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:

If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry

Er, no. Warmer air holds more moisture, colder air less, air at 0C none at
all. That's why you get chaped hands and static shocks in the winter but
not summer.

If you pack in the summer you will include some moisture in the air. When
the weather gets colder that moisture will tend to condense out on surfaces
which is exactly what you don't want.

"Calvin Sambrook" wrote in message
...
"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:41:52 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:

If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry

Er, no. Warmer air holds more moisture, colder air less, air at 0C none
at all. That's why you get chaped hands and static shocks in the winter
but not summer.

If you pack in the summer you will include some moisture in the air. When
the weather gets colder that moisture will tend to condense out on
surfaces which is exactly what you don't want.


Close but the vapour pressure of water is not zero at zero centigrade, i.e.
there will still be some water vapour in the air.
The rest sounds about right.

On 25 May, 22:22, "Calvin Sambrook" wrote:

If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry

Er, no. *Warmer air holds more moisture, colder air less, air at 0C none at
all. *That's why you get chaped hands and static shocks in the winter but
not summer.

This is the UK - it's drier in the Summer. Our Winters are damp and
not usually cold enough to show the effect you describe.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 May, 22:22, "Calvin Sambrook" wrote:

If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry
Er, no. Warmer air holds more moisture, colder air less, air at 0C none at
all. That's why you get chaped hands and static shocks in the winter but
not summer.

This is the UK - it's drier in the Summer. Our Winters are damp and
not usually cold enough to show the effect you describe.
Here in Herefordshire we get dew most nights.

[g]

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 May, 22:22, "Calvin Sambrook" wrote:

If you can pack them in the summer when
they are naturally quite dry
Er, no. Warmer air holds more moisture, colder air less, air at 0C none at
all. That's why you get chaped hands and static shocks in the winter but
not summer.

This is the UK - it's drier in the Summer. Our Winters are damp and
not usually cold enough to show the effect you describe.
It all depends on tempeatu outside wood swells in winter, inside, it
swells in summer.

That's because the temperature inside is above ambient in winter, and
often below it in summer

The key to dry storage is a reasonable amount of ventilation and a
little heat in winter.

If that can be arranged by thermal gain and insulation, that's good.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Steve"
saying something like:

Has anyone got any ideas for not-too-expensive suitable storage?

Decent quality largest size black binliners and vacuum them tight shut
with silica gel inside.

On 25 May, 15:41, "Steve" wrote:

I've got boxes of books, papers and personal effects which need to be stored
in the garage for a year or so. *The garage is unheated and cold/damp in
winter. * *The stuff needs to be kept dry to stop mildew and mould, so I
need something airtight.

You can't achieve airtight, so instead aim for moderately airtight and
pack with silical gel socks inside. Use enough so that the small
amount of damp that does inevitably get in there will be dealt with
and absorbed. NB - NOT calcium chloride dessicators!

Rubble sacks are better than black binliners, as those just tear in no
time. Clear also lets you tell which bag is which. Polythene isn't
impermeable to moisture over a year though. If something _must_ be
dry, pack it into biscuit tins and wrap insulation tape over the lid
seal.

Vacuum bagging is good. The pressure inside a vacuum bag is the same
as atmospheric pressure, so there's no leakage problem. The only time
there's a vacuum (and a paltry vacuum at that) is when they're first
being pumped down, and they crush in and compress the duvet or
whatever is inside there. Afterwards they soon equalise to atmospheric
pressure, less a small amount that compensates for the spring effect
of the bouncy duvet.

It's useful to pack bundles onto small pallets. This allows you to
move the pallet, without disturbing (and almost certainly tearing) the
packages.

Ammo boxes are also your friend. Big ones are cheap, as few people
want them, and there are several sorts around with good rubber seals.
A handful of fuller's earth (grey catlitter) inside avoids everything
acquiring the smell of old squaddies.