I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

"Bodgit" wrote in message
...
I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a
steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide
and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass,
hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's
broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a
spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined
together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

Fence it and get a couple of goats. You could have saved the effort
clearing it by running a pair of weaner pigs in there up to porker
weight, and enjoyed the roasts and sausages.

AWEM

Hi

Well - according to Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_sulfamate

you can't re-seed for 3 - 4 months, until the weedkiller has broken down.

There's various types of rotovators - but most types are better at
'digging' than 'removing roots'.

In my experience, the most heavyweight rotovators (with powered drive
wheels) are also the most effective at breaking up fresh ground - but
I don't think I'd want to use them on anything more than a 1 in 3
slope.. - and they're not really designed to chop up rhodo roots..

If it was flatter, you might be able to get a 'proper' tractor in to
plough the land, but if you really do have sections at 45-degrees
then I'm not sure you'd be able to convince the driver to risk his neck!

Sorry I don't have any magic solutions - but I wouldn't think
'rotovator' is the answer...

You might find a man with a caterpillar-treaded digger could do
something for you ??

Good luck
Adrian

On 18/05/2010 12:40, Bodgit wrote:
I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

On 18/05/10 12:40, Bodgit wrote:
I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller

Ooh, you naughty *naughty* man ;-

that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

I've used a light 4 tine petrol one before. Not very heavy (but will
only cultivate to about 4-6" deep) so it's probably possible, but
obviously, you want to work any way except downhill from it (in case it
falls back onto your toes!). Steel toe caps would be a good idea,
particularly in this case.

I'd start by working it along the contour lines, ie on the flat going
crossways across your slope, perhaps driving it ever so slightly uphill
so its natural forward traction balances the tendency to slip down the
slope.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

When you see building sites like this cleared, they use a tracked
trenching machine, using the bucket teeth to scrape the surface.

Are the 1 in 1 sections sufficiently short for the trencher to reach
from above and/or below, from less steep ground?

Or even have them reshape the profile a bit to eliminate the steepest
bits?

Maybe talk to a groundworks company.

On May 18, 1:00*pm, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"Bodgit" wrote in message

...



I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a
steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide
and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass,
hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's
broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a
spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined
together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

Fence it and get a couple of goats. You could have saved the effort
clearing it by running a pair of weaner pigs in there up to porker
weight, and enjoyed the roasts and sausages.

AWEM

I like latteral thinking! I'll bear it in mind, in case I don't get
any more ideas!

On May 18, 1:17*pm, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/05/10 12:40, Bodgit wrote:

I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller

Ooh, you naughty *naughty* man ;-

I don't think there's anything legal that would have any effect
whatsoever on this lot! It's a ridiculous situation that one of the
most effective and safe garden chemicals has become illegal for the
sake of bureaucracy!


that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

I've used a light 4 tine petrol one before. Not very heavy (but will
only cultivate to about 4-6" deep) so it's probably possible, but
obviously, you want to work any way except downhill from it (in case it
falls back onto your toes!). Steel toe caps would be a good idea,
particularly in this case.

I'd start by working it along the contour lines, ie on the flat going
crossways across your slope, perhaps driving it ever so slightly uphill
so its natural forward traction balances the tendency to slip down the
slope.

Thanks for the tips.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On May 18, 12:40*pm, Bodgit wrote:
I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.


The answer here is very simple: dont! If you do, you'll have very
unstable land, and come the first hard rain, a huge mess at the
bottom. You're fortunate there are still plenty of roots holding it
all together.

What you plant needs to have deep enough roots to hold it all in
place, grass is quite unsuitable. Bushes or trees have bigger roots.
I'd probably pick bushes that give lots of food, a good mixture
including nitrogen fixers and deep rooters.


NT

On May 18, 1:18*pm, " wrote:
When you see building sites like this cleared, they use a tracked
trenching machine, using the bucket teeth to scrape the surface.

Are the 1 in 1 sections sufficiently short for the trencher to reach
from above and/or below, from less steep ground?

Or even have them reshape the profile a bit to eliminate the steepest
bits?

Maybe talk to a groundworks company.

I think it's going to be tricky to get anything like a tracked vehicle
in there - it's very overgrown at the top and, unless it's a monster
digger, it's not going to have the reach to get to the top!

So.... I'm not looking for a perfect "lawn" effect - I just want it to
be tidy. Before I cleared it, it was a horrible 4ft high mess of
Brambles, Bracken, Stinging Nettles, Rhodedendrons, Gorse, and a load
of stuff I could not identify! If I was just to throw some seeds down
in September, would it grow? Without too many weeds coming through?

On 18 May, 12:40, Bodgit wrote:

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land.

Rotovators can be used on steep land, but only in the vertical
direction. Unless your slope is terraced, it would be far too
hazardous to try and use one horizontally on such a slope.

I've never needed to rotavate a slope. However I have fitted my Allen
scythe (powered sickle-bar mower that can drive straight through
brambles) with a safety lanyard that cuts the ignition if it topples
down a bank. Before this, Dad once dropped it down the ditch and we
had to sit and watch it gnashing away at us until it ran out of
petrol.


As a general principle for rotovators, there are two sorts: Real ones
and the typical ones, even from hire shops. These are a light engine,
light tines and usually free-wheeling wheels. Smaller ones have a
fixed leg, larger ones might have driven wheels. These are all pretty
much useless. They're too light, so instead of digging into the ground
they simply climb upwards and out. It's as much work to hold them down
as it is to just use a spade.

A real rotovator is something like a Howard Gem (or even better, a
Howard Dragon). These are heavy and have powered wheels of 18" or so
diameter, so that they have decent traction. Their weight is enough to
hold them down in the soil. Rotavator width is about 2', but up to 3'
for some (light soils) or narrow 18" or 12" models for use in weed
control between rows, rather than initial preparation.

A machine like this is wonderful. They're worth hiring (try real
market gardeners etc.) or even buying for preparing a new site and re-
selling afterwards. Allotment co-ops should certainly think about
owning one.


I think you need a mattock for the roots, and some cheap labour. Also
try Axminster for a "hori hori" or their root-cutting sickle-saw (the
business for brambles). A flame gun is handy too - if you take the
top back to black soil, you'll see the new brambles coming back and
can see where to dig them out.

"Bodgit" wrote in message
...
I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

Depending on what equipment you have to hand...

I hope you haven't cut the main stump of the rhodies away from the roots,
because that makes it much more difficult to attach a chain or winch cable.
In clearing rhodies it is very handy to have a decent sized tree nearby to
act as your anchor point. Then, if you have one, you winch the whole root
system out of the ground, and cut it up afterwards. The pulling up of the
roots 'rotavates' the ground for you.

Without a winch - or winches - (hand ones are quite cheap), but still
relying on a decent tree as an anchor point, a good thick - or suitably
doubled/trebled up nylon rope -, can be looped beltwise under the root
centre and around the tree. Then a decent fence post or similar is used to
wind it up as a tourniquet (bang something into the ground to act as an
arrestor for the winding post - or have it long enough to reach the ground,
so that it doesn't spin back at you when you want to stop). I used this
method to pull juniper, lawsonia, berberis, bramble and other bushes out of
a slope that is as steep as yours and had originally been terraced, but the
roots of these (particularly the berberis - and Yucca!), had destroyed the
terrace walls, and I still haven't decided how to redo them on such a steep
slope. The anchor tree is an old pear tree about 2ft thick, and I pulled
out bushes up to 20ft away from it with relative ease. (Iv'e also used
tourniquets like this to pull a fence back together after cars had knocked
an end post over and bent all the brackets.)

A third satisfying way, for the roots where you don't have a handy anchor
point: Loop a piece of chain (For years I used a motorbike anti theft chain
and padlock) under your root ball, leaving just enough slack to poke a heavy
fence post through. Poke it nearly all the way through so that the long end
is resting on the ground - preferably flat so that you can add bricks bit by
bit to increase your lift. Under the *short* end place, ideally a bottle
jack, but the scissor one out of the car will do at a pinch. Stand it on
the business end of a garden spade or it will wind itself into the ground.
Pump the jack up to the short end of the fence post, and keep going. It is
very satisfying to see how stumps you would have taken days to dig out, can
be quite simply pumped out of the ground. You just have to keep adding more
'spacer bricks' under each end of the lever post until the stump is loose
enough to pull the rest of the way by hand or with the tourniquet. For less
firmly embedded stumps it is sometimes enough to just push the fence post
through the chain and lever them out of the ground from the long end - again
with bricks under the short end as you get higher: it is more easy to break
the post this way though.

(I've also used ordinary jacks and fence posts to move a full garden shed
back about a yard. Very handy things!)

Obviously, a powered winch would be quickest, but you might not find it as
controllable as these other methods have proven to be.

Have fun.

S

In message
,
Bodgit writes
On May 18, 1:18*pm, " wrote:
When you see building sites like this cleared, they use a tracked
trenching machine, using the bucket teeth to scrape the surface.

Are the 1 in 1 sections sufficiently short for the trencher to reach
from above and/or below, from less steep ground?

Or even have them reshape the profile a bit to eliminate the steepest
bits?

Maybe talk to a groundworks company.

I think it's going to be tricky to get anything like a tracked vehicle
in there - it's very overgrown at the top and, unless it's a monster
digger, it's not going to have the reach to get to the top!

So.... I'm not looking for a perfect "lawn" effect - I just want it to
be tidy. Before I cleared it, it was a horrible 4ft high mess of
Brambles, Bracken, Stinging Nettles, Rhodedendrons, Gorse, and a load
of stuff I could not identify! If I was just to throw some seeds down
in September, would it grow? Without too many weeds coming through?

Probably.

The weeds can be removed with a selective weedkiller. 2-4-D is commonly
used on lawns but for brambles and other woody weeds you need Grazon-90
or similar and deep pockets. Don't don't use on new sown grass and don't
compost trimmings as the active chemical is fairly persistent.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On 18 May, 13:46, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 18 May, 12:40, Bodgit wrote:

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land.

Rotovators can be used on steep land, but only in the vertical
direction. Unless your slope is terraced, it would be far too
hazardous to try and use one horizontally on such a slope.

I've never needed to rotavate a slope. However I have fitted my Allen
scythe (powered sickle-bar mower that can drive straight through
brambles) with a safety lanyard that cuts the ignition if it topples
down a bank. Before this, Dad once dropped it down the ditch and we
had to sit and watch it gnashing away at us until it ran out of
petrol.

As a general principle for rotovators, there are two sorts: Real ones
and the typical ones, even from hire shops. These are a light engine,
light tines and usually free-wheeling wheels. Smaller ones have a
fixed leg, larger ones might have driven wheels. These are all pretty
much useless. They're too light, so instead of digging into the ground
they simply climb upwards and out. It's as much work to hold them down
as it is to just use a spade.

A real rotovator is something like a Howard Gem (or even better, a
Howard Dragon). These are heavy and have powered wheels of 18" or so
diameter, so that they have decent traction. Their weight is enough to
hold them down in the soil. Rotavator width is about 2', but up to 3'
for some (light soils) or narrow 18" or 12" models for use in weed
control between rows, rather than initial preparation.

A machine like this is wonderful. They're worth hiring (try real
market gardeners etc.) or even buying for preparing a new site and re-
selling afterwards. Allotment co-ops should certainly think about
owning one.

I think you need a mattock for the roots, and some cheap labour. Also
try Axminster for a "hori hori" or their root-cutting sickle-saw (the
business for brambles). *A flame gun is handy too - if you take the
top back to black soil, you'll see the new brambles coming back and
can see where to dig them out.

I'd hate to be anywhere near a Howard Gem on a 1 to 1 slope. It
probably wouldn't do the engine much good if you have the old single
cylinder side valve 4 stroke version as it was an oil sump unit.
We had one when I was a lad and it was a heavy and awkward brute,
completely unforgiving but very powerful. Ideal for flat work when it
came into its own on long straight runs

On 18 May, 17:05, "spamlet" wrote:
"Bodgit" wrote in message

...



I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

Depending on what equipment you have to hand...

I hope you haven't cut the main stump of the rhodies away from the roots,
because that makes it much more difficult to attach a chain or winch cable.
In clearing rhodies it is very handy to have a decent sized tree nearby to
act as your anchor point. *Then, if you have one, you winch the whole root
system out of the ground, and cut it up afterwards. *The pulling up of the
roots 'rotavates' the ground for you.

Without a winch - or winches - (hand ones are quite cheap), but still
relying on a decent tree as an anchor point, a good thick - or suitably
doubled/trebled up nylon rope -, can be looped beltwise under the root
centre and around the tree. *Then a decent fence post or similar is used to
wind it up as a tourniquet *(bang something into the ground to act as an
arrestor for the winding post - or have it long enough to reach the ground,
so that it doesn't spin back at you when you want to stop). *I used this
method to pull juniper, lawsonia, berberis, bramble and other bushes out of
a slope that is as steep as yours and had originally been terraced, but the
roots of these (particularly the berberis - and Yucca!), had destroyed the
terrace walls, and I still haven't decided how to redo them on such a steep
slope. *The anchor tree is an old pear tree about 2ft thick, and I pulled
out bushes up to 20ft away from it with relative ease. *(Iv'e also used
tourniquets like this to pull a fence back together after cars had knocked
an end post over and bent all the brackets.)

A third satisfying way, for the roots where you don't have a handy anchor
point: *Loop a piece of chain (For years I used a motorbike anti theft chain
and padlock) under your root ball, leaving just enough slack to poke a heavy
fence post through. *Poke it nearly all the way through so that the long end
is resting on the ground - preferably flat so that you can add bricks bit by
bit to increase your lift. *Under the *short* end place, ideally a bottle
jack, but the scissor one out of the car will do at a pinch. *Stand it on
the business end of a garden spade or it will wind itself into the ground..
Pump the jack up to the short end of the fence post, and keep going. *It is
very satisfying to see how stumps you would have taken days to dig out, can
be quite simply pumped out of the ground. *You just have to keep adding more
'spacer bricks' under each end of the lever post until the stump is loose
enough to pull the rest of the way by hand or with the tourniquet. *For less
firmly embedded stumps it is sometimes enough to just push the fence post
through the chain and lever them out of the ground from the long end - again
with bricks under the short end as you get higher: it is more easy to break
the post this way though.

(I've also used ordinary jacks and fence posts to move a full garden shed
back about a yard. *Very handy things!)

Obviously, a powered winch would be quickest, but you might not find it as
controllable as these other methods have proven to be.

Have fun.

S

Thanks for that - some good tips there!

I think I've got most of the bigger roots out. The plants that were
covering the ground were very patchy - there were areas of rhodies
where the soil is now quite loose, but there are other areas that were
covered in thick mats of some type of creeper entwined with brambles -
this is really the bit that I want to rotovate, as I can't really make
a dent in the matting. I've tried using a saw, which does work, but
it's very hard work and the saw will be blunt in no time!

On 18 May, 20:54, Bodgit wrote:
On 18 May, 17:05, "spamlet" wrote:



"Bodgit" wrote in message

...

I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

Depending on what equipment you have to hand...

I hope you haven't cut the main stump of the rhodies away from the roots,
because that makes it much more difficult to attach a chain or winch cable.
In clearing rhodies it is very handy to have a decent sized tree nearby to
act as your anchor point. Then, if you have one, you winch the whole root
system out of the ground, and cut it up afterwards. The pulling up of the
roots 'rotavates' the ground for you.

Without a winch - or winches - (hand ones are quite cheap), but still
relying on a decent tree as an anchor point, a good thick - or suitably
doubled/trebled up nylon rope -, can be looped beltwise under the root
centre and around the tree. Then a decent fence post or similar is used to
wind it up as a tourniquet (bang something into the ground to act as an
arrestor for the winding post - or have it long enough to reach the ground,
so that it doesn't spin back at you when you want to stop). I used this
method to pull juniper, lawsonia, berberis, bramble and other bushes out of
a slope that is as steep as yours and had originally been terraced, but the
roots of these (particularly the berberis - and Yucca!), had destroyed the
terrace walls, and I still haven't decided how to redo them on such a steep
slope. The anchor tree is an old pear tree about 2ft thick, and I pulled
out bushes up to 20ft away from it with relative ease. (Iv'e also used
tourniquets like this to pull a fence back together after cars had knocked
an end post over and bent all the brackets.)

A third satisfying way, for the roots where you don't have a handy anchor
point: Loop a piece of chain (For years I used a motorbike anti theft chain
and padlock) under your root ball, leaving just enough slack to poke a heavy
fence post through. Poke it nearly all the way through so that the long end
is resting on the ground - preferably flat so that you can add bricks bit by
bit to increase your lift. Under the *short* end place, ideally a bottle
jack, but the scissor one out of the car will do at a pinch. Stand it on
the business end of a garden spade or it will wind itself into the ground.
Pump the jack up to the short end of the fence post, and keep going. It is
very satisfying to see how stumps you would have taken days to dig out, can
be quite simply pumped out of the ground. You just have to keep adding more
'spacer bricks' under each end of the lever post until the stump is loose
enough to pull the rest of the way by hand or with the tourniquet. For less
firmly embedded stumps it is sometimes enough to just push the fence post
through the chain and lever them out of the ground from the long end - again
with bricks under the short end as you get higher: it is more easy to break
the post this way though.

(I've also used ordinary jacks and fence posts to move a full garden shed
back about a yard. Very handy things!)

Obviously, a powered winch would be quickest, but you might not find it as
controllable as these other methods have proven to be.

Have fun.

S

Thanks for that - some good tips there!

I think I've got most of the bigger roots out. The plants that were
covering the ground were very patchy - there were areas of rhodies
here the soil is now quite loose, but there are other areas that were
covered in thick mats of some type of creeper entwined with brambles -
this is really the bit that I want to rotovate, as I can't really make
a dent in the matting. I've tried using a saw, which does work, but
it's very hard work and the saw will be blunt in no time!

can you burn the creeprs etc off - presume they are currently dying
from the ahem, weedkilla... end of summer nice and dry, spot of diesel/
paraffin etc?

Cheers
JimK

"Bodgit" wrote in message
...
On 18 May, 17:05, "spamlet" wrote:
"Bodgit" wrote in message

...



I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.

Depending on what equipment you have to hand...

I hope you haven't cut the main stump of the rhodies away from the roots,
because that makes it much more difficult to attach a chain or winch
cable.
In clearing rhodies it is very handy to have a decent sized tree nearby to
act as your anchor point. Then, if you have one, you winch the whole root
system out of the ground, and cut it up afterwards. The pulling up of the
roots 'rotavates' the ground for you.

Without a winch - or winches - (hand ones are quite cheap), but still
relying on a decent tree as an anchor point, a good thick - or suitably
doubled/trebled up nylon rope -, can be looped beltwise under the root
centre and around the tree. Then a decent fence post or similar is used to
wind it up as a tourniquet (bang something into the ground to act as an
arrestor for the winding post - or have it long enough to reach the
ground,
so that it doesn't spin back at you when you want to stop). I used this
method to pull juniper, lawsonia, berberis, bramble and other bushes out
of
a slope that is as steep as yours and had originally been terraced, but
the
roots of these (particularly the berberis - and Yucca!), had destroyed the
terrace walls, and I still haven't decided how to redo them on such a
steep
slope. The anchor tree is an old pear tree about 2ft thick, and I pulled
out bushes up to 20ft away from it with relative ease. (Iv'e also used
tourniquets like this to pull a fence back together after cars had knocked
an end post over and bent all the brackets.)

A third satisfying way, for the roots where you don't have a handy anchor
point: Loop a piece of chain (For years I used a motorbike anti theft
chain
and padlock) under your root ball, leaving just enough slack to poke a
heavy
fence post through. Poke it nearly all the way through so that the long
end
is resting on the ground - preferably flat so that you can add bricks bit
by
bit to increase your lift. Under the *short* end place, ideally a bottle
jack, but the scissor one out of the car will do at a pinch. Stand it on
the business end of a garden spade or it will wind itself into the ground.
Pump the jack up to the short end of the fence post, and keep going. It is
very satisfying to see how stumps you would have taken days to dig out,
can
be quite simply pumped out of the ground. You just have to keep adding
more
'spacer bricks' under each end of the lever post until the stump is loose
enough to pull the rest of the way by hand or with the tourniquet. For
less
firmly embedded stumps it is sometimes enough to just push the fence post
through the chain and lever them out of the ground from the long end -
again
with bricks under the short end as you get higher: it is more easy to
break
the post this way though.

(I've also used ordinary jacks and fence posts to move a full garden shed
back about a yard. Very handy things!)

Obviously, a powered winch would be quickest, but you might not find it as
controllable as these other methods have proven to be.

Have fun.

S

Thanks for that - some good tips there!

I think I've got most of the bigger roots out. The plants that were
covering the ground were very patchy - there were areas of rhodies
where the soil is now quite loose, but there are other areas that were
covered in thick mats of some type of creeper entwined with brambles -
this is really the bit that I want to rotovate, as I can't really make
a dent in the matting. I've tried using a saw, which does work, but
it's very hard work and the saw will be blunt in no time!


Do you have a picture, or any idea what the 'creeper' is? There are some
things: eg Japanese Knotweed; Russian Vine, that you really don't want to
break up with a rotorvator, as every little bit will form a new plant and,
as notifiable invasives, you really need to kill them properly and burn
them.

You may find it better to pull the brambles out as above, then wait for the
'creeper' to green up before hitting it with Roundup and covering it with a
tarp. If it's some ground cover plant like periwinkle (Vinca) you should
find that if you just go over the patch with a fork - stick in; stand on;
waggle around; repeat, a bit at a time, you break up the soil gradually and
can pick the whole patch out in one go once its all loose. Chop it up and
you may be in trouble.

It may all seem a lot of work, but compared with some other jobs you can
make a big difference under your own steam much more quickly than you think!

S

Bodgit wrote:
I have cleared brambles, rhodedendrons and general crap from a steeply
sloping piece of ground. The area varies between 12ft and 6ft wide and
is about 200ft long, with a tarmac driveway at the bottom and some
trees and bushes at the top. It's very steep (varying between 3:1and
1:1). I intend to grass the area with some slow growing grass, hoping
that I can get away with strimming it once a year or so.

After clearing it (took 3 solid days), I watered in some Ammonium
Sulphamate weedkiller that I happened to aquire and when that's broken
down I want to dig it over to get some of the old roots out prior to
seeding. But I can't face doing it by hand - I can't even get a spade
to penetrate the surface as there are so many roots entwined together.

I have never used a rotavator so I don't know if it will be possible
to operate one on such a steep piece of land. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave.
Not sure a mini digger might not be better.

At least for de rooting.

Not sure about 1:1 slopes tho.

I've driven em up 30 degree slopes.

1:1 is of course 90 degrees - a sheer cliff. NOT 45 degrees. Since '1:1'
is one foot up for every food of actual travel ;-)

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes

1:1 is of course 90 degrees - a sheer cliff. NOT 45 degrees. Since
'1:1' is one foot up for every food of actual travel ;-)

I must be missing something here. 1:1 is indeed one foot up for one
foot along, but surely that is 45 degrees. 90 degrees would be 1:0, or
is my brain still asleep?
--
Graeme

On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:57:24 +0100, Graeme wrote:

1:1 is of course 90 degrees - a sheer cliff. NOT 45 degrees. Since

'1:1' is one foot up for every food of actual travel ;-)

I must be missing something here. 1:1 is indeed one foot up for one
foot along, but surely that is 45 degrees. 90 degrees would be 1:0, or
is my brain still asleep?

Nope 1:1 or 1 in 1 is 1 up 1 along = 45 degrees. Personally I
wouldn't want to have anything powered/mechanical on a slope that
steep. Work from the bottom or maybe the top with a digger with
enough reach.

Also what has been briefly mentioned I wonder how stable it will be
after the roots holding it together have been removed. Even if it
doesn't slip enmasse I suspect a decent rain storm will wash a
significant amount to the bottom...

--
Cheers
Dave.

Graeme wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes

1:1 is of course 90 degrees - a sheer cliff. NOT 45 degrees. Since
'1:1' is one foot up for every food of actual travel ;-)

I must be missing something here. 1:1 is indeed one foot up for one
foot along, but surely that is 45 degrees. 90 degrees would be 1:0, or
is my brain still asleep?
Traditionally, you measured along the road, and calculated the rise. So
its not the tangent, its the sine of the angle.

45 degrees is one in 1.414..and let me tell you, that's not something
you can walk up without steps. Its even pretty steep for STEPS.


I've rock climbed up that sort of slope. With ropes.

On May 19, 8:34*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Not sure a mini digger might not be better.

At least for de rooting.

Not sure about 1:1 slopes tho.

I've driven em up 30 degree slopes.
The driver who did some landscaping for me reversed up slopes with the
dozer blade always facing down. Even then it was unsteady and you
wouldn't want to be swinging the bucket around full and fully
extended.
This video says it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_SY1LjZcP0
Its funny how close together they have the tracks set and what they
are trying to lift.

Dave

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2010 08:57:24 +0100, Graeme wrote:

1:1 is of course 90 degrees - a sheer cliff. NOT 45 degrees. Since

'1:1' is one foot up for every food of actual travel ;-)
I must be missing something here. 1:1 is indeed one foot up for one
foot along, but surely that is 45 degrees. 90 degrees would be 1:0, or
is my brain still asleep?

Nope 1:1 or 1 in 1 is 1 up 1 along = 45 degrees.

It is not.

Not in surveying.

It is in mathematics.

Its a purely practical decision. You can get the height change over a
slope with a pole and a theodolite, and measure the distance up the
slope. No trig is required to express the slope as the sine.

On 18/05/2010 13:17, Tim Watts wrote:

I've used a light 4 tine petrol one before. Not very heavy (but will
only cultivate to about 4-6" deep) so it's probably possible, but
obviously, you want to work any way except downhill from it (in case it
falls back onto your toes!). Steel toe caps would be a good idea,
particularly in this case.

I've watched people flymowing very steep terrain, and they used rope to
tie the mower back to a tree at the top, and then swung the mower in an
arc. Then, payed out a little more rope and swung it around an arc
again. Rinse and repeat.

The same basic principle may work for whatever machine is eventually used.

--
Ron

In message , Ron Lowe
writes
On 18/05/2010 13:17, Tim Watts wrote:

I've used a light 4 tine petrol one before. Not very heavy (but will
only cultivate to about 4-6" deep) so it's probably possible, but
obviously, you want to work any way except downhill from it (in case it
falls back onto your toes!). Steel toe caps would be a good idea,
particularly in this case.

I've watched people flymowing very steep terrain, and they used rope to
tie the mower back to a tree at the top, and then swung the mower in an
arc. Then, payed out a little more rope and swung it around an arc
again. Rinse and repeat.

The same basic principle may work for whatever machine is eventually used.

Grass should be sufficient to prevent gullying but only if you can get
it established before the gullies form:-)

Terracing?

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On 19/05/10 16:42, Ron Lowe wrote:
On 18/05/2010 13:17, Tim Watts wrote:

I've used a light 4 tine petrol one before. Not very heavy (but will
only cultivate to about 4-6" deep) so it's probably possible, but
obviously, you want to work any way except downhill from it (in case it
falls back onto your toes!). Steel toe caps would be a good idea,
particularly in this case.

I've watched people flymowing very steep terrain, and they used rope to
tie the mower back to a tree at the top, and then swung the mower in an
arc. Then, payed out a little more rope and swung it around an arc
again. Rinse and repeat.

The same basic principle may work for whatever machine is eventually used.


I wouldn't do that with a machine exerting traction as a rotorvator
does. The flymo trick works because it tends to sit flat to the ground,
has low ground friction and no traction. Yes, I've seen it done at York
Uni on 45 degree 5m high slopes - bloke didn't even tie it to a tree -
just walked along the top holding the rope.

A small rotorvator will turn itself over, or run away if you drop the
rope

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Ron Lowe
writes
On 18/05/2010 13:17, Tim Watts wrote:

I've used a light 4 tine petrol one before. Not very heavy (but will
only cultivate to about 4-6" deep) so it's probably possible, but
obviously, you want to work any way except downhill from it (in case it
falls back onto your toes!). Steel toe caps would be a good idea,
particularly in this case.

I've watched people flymowing very steep terrain, and they used rope
to tie the mower back to a tree at the top, and then swung the mower
in an arc. Then, payed out a little more rope and swung it around an
arc again. Rinse and repeat.

The same basic principle may work for whatever machine is eventually
used.

Grass should be sufficient to prevent gullying but only if you can get
it established before the gullies form:-)

Terracing?


Netting?

regards