???

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 05:49:41 -0700 (PDT), paulfoel wrote:
???

Hard enough that I wouldn't want to use one that an amateur had installed.
Electricity, water ... .not a good combination.

On Apr 23, 1:54*pm, pete wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 05:49:41 -0700 (PDT), paulfoel wrote:
???

Hard enough that I wouldn't want to use one that an amateur had installed..
Electricity, water ... .not a good combination.

Thought that might be the case. Appox price to get one fitted?

"pete" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 05:49:41 -0700 (PDT), paulfoel wrote:
???

Hard enough that I wouldn't want to use one that an amateur had installed.
Electricity, water ... .not a good combination.

High wattage - heavy current - regulations - HIPS - etc

No way.

John
wibbled on Friday 23 April 2010 14:56


"pete" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 05:49:41 -0700 (PDT), paulfoel wrote:
???

Hard enough that I wouldn't want to use one that an amateur had
installed. Electricity, water ... .not a good combination.

High wattage - heavy current - regulations

It wouldn't be something I'd fancy doing as a first foray into wiring. But
if you are competent (ie have done good work in other areas of wiring), can
read the regs and the OnSite and have a means to test the circuit and the
supply, there's no reason why not.

But a "newbie" would be better starting with something simpler. 6mm2 and
10mm2 cable are as stiff as gits, plus considering the cable route and
fighting with a shower cable + pipes in a tight space is going to be one of
the harder jobs one might do.

- HIPS - etc

HIPs don't have much to do with anything now, apart from the EA ********.
The question might arise on the solicitors questionnaire though.

The real question is not "will I get done for doing this". The right
question is "can I do this safely such that I would not be afraid for an
expert to critique what I have done and do I appreciate what knowledge I
will need".

Trouble with Nanny is She encourages the wrong thinking.



--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember pete saying
something like:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 05:49:41 -0700 (PDT), paulfoel wrote:
???

Hard enough that I wouldn't want to use one that an amateur had installed.

Bull****.

Not very, but you need to know what you are doing. There is also the matter
of Part P.

"paulfoel" wrote in message
...
???

Farmer Giles wrote:
Not very, but you need to know what you are doing. There is also the matter
of Part P.


worst part is running cables and doing it all properly.

Safe enough if you abide by the rules.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Farmer Giles wrote:
Not very, but you need to know what you are doing. There is also the
matter of Part P.


worst part is running cables and doing it all properly.

Safe enough if you abide by the rules.

It would be easier if there were shower units to fit in the roof space
(above the shower) - or under the bath - then making a neat and safe job of
the wiring and plumbing would not be such an issue. It would also aid
replacement as typically when you have cut cables, routed pipes and done
tiling you cannot easily change the unit when it expires (as they do). They
'should' also be cheaper as they wouldn't need to be cosmetically
attractive - or splash proof.

John
wibbled on Friday 23 April 2010 15:47


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Farmer Giles wrote:
Not very, but you need to know what you are doing. There is also the
matter of Part P.


worst part is running cables and doing it all properly.

Safe enough if you abide by the rules.

It would be easier if there were shower units to fit in the roof space
(above the shower) - or under the bath - then making a neat and safe job
of the wiring and plumbing would not be such an issue.

There are. I saw some a few months back on the web. I *think* it might have
been mentioned here - try a google withing the last 12 months on this
group.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

It would be easier if there were shower units to fit in the roof space
(above the shower) - or under the bath - then making a neat and safe job
of the wiring and plumbing would not be such an issue.

There are. I saw some a few months back on the web. I *think* it might
have
been mentioned here - try a google withing the last 12 months on this
group.


Not actually an electric shower, but may be of interest if there is a loft
above with hot and cold supplies available

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ite/index.html

Toby...

Someone wrote:
It would be easier if there were shower units to fit in the roof space
(above the shower) - or under the bath - then making a neat and safe job of
the wiring and plumbing would not be such an issue. It would also aid
replacement as typically when you have cut cables, routed pipes and done
tiling you cannot easily change the unit when it expires (as they do). They
'should' also be cheaper as they wouldn't need to be cosmetically
attractive - or splash proof.
..
That just got me thinking!

Back ground: The last update to the bathroom this 40+ year old house,
was some five years or so.
The main work comprised installing a fiberglass bath/shower unit in
place of the previous metal bath tub and surround.
The new unit had to be 3 piece that we assembled inside. Because a one
piece unit one, as typically installed in new homes couldn't be fitted
through the house and then through the bathroom door. Our bathroom is
in centre of the house; no window etc. (Quite often with new
construction one sees the single fiberglass bath unit being taken in
through the as yet uninstalled large front window opening, before all
partitions are installed! They are that large and cumbersome!)

If ever building new (unlikely) would install a single piece f.glass
unit and try and install along an out side wall etc. so that when
after some 30 to 40 years it could more easily be replaced.

Anyway. If an 'Electric Shower' is contemplated (even the name makes
one shiver .................... the words electric and shower i.e.
water just DON'T seem to go together, do they?), there is sufficient
space above our bath/shower unit to install some extra equipment such
as the instant hot water heater, which one gathers can consume 9
kilowatts or some 40 amps! For the short periods they are on? Or
'spare' space is occupied by a small amount of wiring to a light
installed in the roof/ceiling of the bath/shower unit and two speakers
so as to listen to the radio or internet broadcasts while showering/
shaving etc. Hot water being available from the electrically heated
central 120 litre (40 US gallon) hot water tank/cylinder a short
distance away in the basement, which has two 230 volt 3 kilowatt
heaters arranged 'flip-flop' with upper and lower tank thermostats.

Idea anyway.

"paulfoel" wrote in message
...
???


Fitted a few, very easy task .... hardest job is routing cold water feed.
.... use Hep20 for that, much easier than copper.

Although officially you can't wire one up anymore if you are not qualified
......... don't suppose that will stop many people though.


Watch what output power you get ... higher is of course better, but you then
need appropriate sized T&E cable back to CU, and correct MCB & trip.

On Apr 24, 11:18*am, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
Although officially you can't wire one up anymore if you are not qualified

- You can wire anything you want under SI2006.
- You do not need to be qualified.
- To install a NEW shower & final circuit is notifiable and you would
need to contact BCO.
- To renew an EXISTING shower of the same wattage it is a NON-
notifiable job.

You can download SI2006 from ODPM website, might be SI2010 now but the
same applies. Readable for a gov't doc except it is written by cash
under table civil servants who made a completel dogs breakfast of it
whilst parliament merely rubber stamped "P1" and john prescott shagged
something on his table at the taxpayers expense. SI2004 was a joke and
merely reflected appropriately on the IEE's decline.

Key thing about a new shower is 1) existing suitable supply re DNO
fuse to CU space 2) RCD protection 3) MEB & Supplemental uptodate
unless all circuits in bathroom have RCD/RCBO protection 4) correct
isolator 5) correct size of cable re voltage drop, adjusted CCC) and
6) correct materials and workmanship at installation. Route may
require use of 10mm or even 16mm FTE, both of which are cumbersome to
work with. It is not a complex nor trivial exercise, it is an
important amount of design and often a rather cumbersome install
considering a) location b) getting there c) getting everything else
done re ventilation.
Adding a shower to a bathroom generally requires ventilation to be
improved, typically addressed by installing a light/shower activated
extractor fan. This requires L1+L2+N isolation (not LNE!) if
"externally" triggered by lightswitch.

Additionally "shower" might become "walk in wet room" re say Marmox or
rubber-tray by the time you have finished planning (as opposed to wet
room due to a leak :-) So lots to consider, most of all perhaps is
"electric showers can be like a childs watering can over your head"
compared to a pumped thermal-store shower which is "a real shower".

That's a fair point about effectiveness of electric showers. In the
en-suite loo, I put in a power shower (Trevi mixer and Stuart Turner pump)
which makes for a pretty good deluge. The pipework for low pressure hot and
cold was easily accessible (airing cupboard other side of the stud wall) as
was a mains supply for it - so didn't even consider an electric in there.

The only reason I'm putting that Triton electric in the main bathroom is in
case anyone is staying and wants a shower at the same time (power shower can
empty the hot water tank pretty quick).


"js.b1" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 11:18 am, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
Although officially you can't wire one up anymore if you are not qualified

- You can wire anything you want under SI2006.
- You do not need to be qualified.
- To install a NEW shower & final circuit is notifiable and you would
need to contact BCO.
- To renew an EXISTING shower of the same wattage it is a NON-
notifiable job.

You can download SI2006 from ODPM website, might be SI2010 now but the
same applies. Readable for a gov't doc except it is written by cash
under table civil servants who made a completel dogs breakfast of it
whilst parliament merely rubber stamped "P1" and john prescott shagged
something on his table at the taxpayers expense. SI2004 was a joke and
merely reflected appropriately on the IEE's decline.

Key thing about a new shower is 1) existing suitable supply re DNO
fuse to CU space 2) RCD protection 3) MEB & Supplemental uptodate
unless all circuits in bathroom have RCD/RCBO protection 4) correct
isolator 5) correct size of cable re voltage drop, adjusted CCC) and
6) correct materials and workmanship at installation. Route may
require use of 10mm or even 16mm FTE, both of which are cumbersome to
work with. It is not a complex nor trivial exercise, it is an
important amount of design and often a rather cumbersome install
considering a) location b) getting there c) getting everything else
done re ventilation.
Adding a shower to a bathroom generally requires ventilation to be
improved, typically addressed by installing a light/shower activated
extractor fan. This requires L1+L2+N isolation (not LNE!) if
"externally" triggered by lightswitch.

Additionally "shower" might become "walk in wet room" re say Marmox or
rubber-tray by the time you have finished planning (as opposed to wet
room due to a leak :-) So lots to consider, most of all perhaps is
"electric showers can be like a childs watering can over your head"
compared to a pumped thermal-store shower which is "a real shower".

Thanks for all the advice.

To be honest, I think I'm going to do the plumbing bit myself. Not
hard since theres a bath there at the moment so thats easy enought to
get cold water there.

Electric wise I'm going to get someone in. I'm 'OK' at wiring/plumbing
but not an expert and I dont fancy the combination of water/electric
if anything goes wrong.

"paulfoel" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the advice.

To be honest, I think I'm going to do the plumbing bit myself. Not
hard since theres a bath there at the moment so thats easy enought to
get cold water there.

Electric wise I'm going to get someone in. I'm 'OK' at wiring/plumbing
but not an expert and I dont fancy the combination of water/electric
if anything goes wrong.

Sounds a good strategy as you are likely to need a new CU or an additional
one.