Hi,

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher. The upper arm is
not turning/spinning/rotating, even though water pours out the spray
arm's holes.

I have thoroughly cleaned the entire dishwasher compartment: the
door, the inside walls, the sump and filters, the upper and lower trays,
the arms, just about everything.

Now the bottom spray arm works fine, goes merrily round and round
spraying just dandy. If I give the bottom spray arm a good flick of the
thumb, it spins freely and will do nine or ten complete revolutions
until it stops. The upper arm is harder to turn, I can get it to rotate
two or three times at most. I couldn't really say under oath that it
turns "freely".

Should the upper spray arm rotate more freely?

The two arms are differently designed. The bottom spray arm is
simpler -- it's all plastic and just "clicks" into position. The upper
spray arm is slightly more complicated. The central hub is formed of
three interlocking snap-together parts: 1) the long arm; 2) the
bayonet-lock disc with o-ring; 3) the centre hole piece. The upper
spray arm has a bayonet/"screw on" way of being attached. When I
cleaned the upper arm, I had to pull out six or so hairs that were
wrapped around the bayonet disc and centre-hole piece that form the hub.
When the arm is assembled at the factory, the centre-hole snaps into
the arm -- trapping and securing the bayonet-lock disc -- in such a way
that you can't get at the snaps again to disassemble it. It makes it a
bugger to clean the hub of hairs that have gotten wrapped around there!
I have soaked the upper spray arm in hot vinegar for 12 hours.

**** If anyone has a Beko dishwasher, I would be most grateful if
you could post the results of flicking the upper and lower spray arms on
your machine. (Be prepared for a few drops of water to fly out!) How
many complete revolutions does each do when you give a good flick with
the thumb or finger? ****

With kind regards,

Sandy

"Usenet" wrote in message ...
Hi,

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher. The upper arm is not turning/spinning/rotating, even though water pours out
the spray arm's holes.

I have thoroughly cleaned the entire dishwasher compartment: the door, the inside walls, the sump and filters, the upper and
lower trays, the arms, just about everything.

Now the bottom spray arm works fine, goes merrily round and round spraying just dandy. If I give the bottom spray arm a good
flick of the thumb, it spins freely and will do nine or ten complete revolutions until it stops. The upper arm is harder to turn,
I can get it to rotate two or three times at most. I couldn't really say under oath that it turns "freely".

Should the upper spray arm rotate more freely?

The two arms are differently designed. The bottom spray arm is simpler -- it's all plastic and just "clicks" into position.
The upper spray arm is slightly more complicated. The central hub is formed of three interlocking snap-together parts: 1) the
long arm; 2) the bayonet-lock disc with o-ring; 3) the centre hole piece. The upper spray arm has a bayonet/"screw on" way of
being attached. When I cleaned the upper arm, I had to pull out six or so hairs that were wrapped around the bayonet disc and
centre-hole piece that form the hub. When the arm is assembled at the factory, the centre-hole snaps into the arm -- trapping and
securing the bayonet-lock disc -- in such a way that you can't get at the snaps again to disassemble it. It makes it a bugger to
clean the hub of hairs that have gotten wrapped around there! I have soaked the upper spray arm in hot vinegar for 12 hours.

**** If anyone has a Beko dishwasher, I would be most grateful if you could post the results of flicking the upper and lower
spray arms on your machine. (Be prepared for a few drops of water to fly out!) How many complete revolutions does each do when
you give a good flick with the thumb or finger? ****

With kind regards,

Sandy

I had almost the exact same symptoms on my dishwasher, unknown make but
not Beco, and also posted here. Had the same concerns as you about friction etc.
I could find no actual fault and a cure was
found by cleaning out the sump filter and running the machine empty (of dishes)
for a few cycles. I think it was a build-up of grease in the pipe that feeds the
water spigot at the top of the machine. It looked as though the volume of
water pouring into the top spray-arm was sufficient, but clearly it needed a little more
to rotate it reliably.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Feb 6, 6:53*pm, "Graham." wrote:
"Usenet" wrote in ...
Hi,

* * I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher. *The upper arm is not turning/spinning/rotating, even though water pours out
the spray arm's holes.

* * I have thoroughly cleaned the entire dishwasher compartment: the door, the inside walls, the sump and filters, the upper and
lower trays, the arms, just about everything.

* * Now the bottom spray arm works fine, goes merrily round and round spraying just dandy. *If I give the bottom spray arm a good
flick of the thumb, it spins freely and will do nine or ten complete revolutions until it stops. *The upper arm is harder to turn,
I can get it to rotate two or three times at most. *I couldn't really say under oath that it turns "freely".

* * Should the upper spray arm rotate more freely?

* * The two arms are differently designed. *The bottom spray arm is simpler -- it's all plastic and just "clicks" into position.
The upper spray arm is slightly more complicated. *The central hub is formed of three interlocking snap-together parts: 1) the
long arm; 2) the bayonet-lock disc with o-ring; 3) the centre hole piece. *The upper spray arm has a bayonet/"screw on" way of
being attached. *When I cleaned the upper arm, I had to pull out six or so hairs that were wrapped around the bayonet disc and
centre-hole piece that form the hub. When the arm is assembled at the factory, the centre-hole snaps into the arm -- trapping and
securing the bayonet-lock disc -- in such a way that you can't get at the snaps again to disassemble it. *It makes it a bugger to
clean the hub of hairs that have gotten wrapped around there! I have soaked the upper spray arm in hot vinegar for 12 hours.

* * **** If anyone has a Beko dishwasher, I would be most grateful if you could post the results of flicking the upper and lower
spray arms on your machine. *(Be prepared for a few drops of water to fly out!) *How many complete revolutions does each do when
you give a good flick with the thumb or finger? ****

With kind regards,

Sandy

I had almost the exact same symptoms on my dishwasher, unknown make but
not Beco, and also posted here. Had the same concerns as you about friction etc.
I could find no actual fault and a cure was
found by cleaning out the sump filter and running the machine empty (of dishes)
for a few cycles. I think it was a build-up of grease in the pipe that feeds the
water spigot at the top of the machine. It looked as though the volume of
water pouring into the top spray-arm was sufficient, but clearly it needed a little more
to rotate it reliably.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Does the upper arm get its water from a tube from the main pump, or
does it get its water from an extendable center post that comes up
from the center of the bottom washer arm when the water is under
pressure. The upper arm should spin "freely". How do you get hairs
in a dishwasher???

On 07/02/2010 04:20, hr(bob) wrote:
On Feb 6, 6:53 pm, wrote:
wrote in ...
Hi,

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher. The upper arm is not turning/spinning/rotating, even though water pours out
the spray arm's holes.

I have thoroughly cleaned the entire dishwasher compartment: the door, the inside walls, the sump and filters, the upper and
lower trays, the arms, just about everything.

Now the bottom spray arm works fine, goes merrily round and round spraying just dandy. If I give the bottom spray arm a good
flick of the thumb, it spins freely and will do nine or ten complete revolutions until it stops. The upper arm is harder to turn,
I can get it to rotate two or three times at most. I couldn't really say under oath that it turns "freely".

Should the upper spray arm rotate more freely?

The two arms are differently designed. The bottom spray arm is simpler -- it's all plastic and just "clicks" into position.
The upper spray arm is slightly more complicated. The central hub is formed of three interlocking snap-together parts: 1) the
long arm; 2) the bayonet-lock disc with o-ring; 3) the centre hole piece. The upper spray arm has a bayonet/"screw on" way of
being attached. When I cleaned the upper arm, I had to pull out six or so hairs that were wrapped around the bayonet disc and
centre-hole piece that form the hub. When the arm is assembled at the factory, the centre-hole snaps into the arm -- trapping and
securing the bayonet-lock disc -- in such a way that you can't get at the snaps again to disassemble it. It makes it a bugger to
clean the hub of hairs that have gotten wrapped around there! I have soaked the upper spray arm in hot vinegar for 12 hours.

**** If anyone has a Beko dishwasher, I would be most grateful if you could post the results of flicking the upper and lower
spray arms on your machine. (Be prepared for a few drops of water to fly out!) How many complete revolutions does each do when
you give a good flick with the thumb or finger? ****

With kind regards,

Sandy

I had almost the exact same symptoms on my dishwasher, unknown make but
not Beco, and also posted here. Had the same concerns as you about friction etc.
I could find no actual fault and a cure was
found by cleaning out the sump filter and running the machine empty (of dishes)
for a few cycles. I think it was a build-up of grease in the pipe that feeds the
water spigot at the top of the machine. It looked as though the volume of
water pouring into the top spray-arm was sufficient, but clearly it needed a little more
to rotate it reliably.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Does the upper arm get its water from a tube from the main pump, or
does it get its water from an extendable center post that comes up
from the center of the bottom washer arm when the water is under
pressure. The upper arm should spin "freely". How do you get hairs
in a dishwasher???



Stop washing your dog in the machine? :-)

Bod

Usenet wrote:

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher. The upper arm is
not turning/spinning/rotating, even though water pours out the spray
arm's holes.

I have thoroughly cleaned the entire dishwasher compartment: the
door, the inside walls, the sump and filters, the upper and lower trays,
the arms, just about everything.

I'd still strongly recommend you run it on an empty cycle using one of
those 'deep clean' bottles of dishwasher cleaner on as hot/long a cycle
as possible. I was very scornful of those until I was advised to use
them every couple of months by a dishwasher engineer after I was
suffering similar symptoms to you.... when he visited to repair ours, he
found pipes almost completely clogged with grease, which you wouldn't
get at unless you took the machine apart.

I now use them regularly with much better results than before.

David

Lobster
wibbled on Sunday 07 February 2010 09:45

Usenet wrote:

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher. The upper arm is
not turning/spinning/rotating, even though water pours out the spray
arm's holes.

I have thoroughly cleaned the entire dishwasher compartment: the
door, the inside walls, the sump and filters, the upper and lower trays,
the arms, just about everything.

I'd still strongly recommend you run it on an empty cycle using one of
those 'deep clean' bottles of dishwasher cleaner on as hot/long a cycle
as possible. I was very scornful of those until I was advised to use
them every couple of months by a dishwasher engineer after I was
suffering similar symptoms to you.... when he visited to repair ours, he
found pipes almost completely clogged with grease, which you wouldn't
get at unless you took the machine apart.

I now use them regularly with much better results than before.

David

I do mine once per month - taking the filter assembly out the bottom and
arranging on the shelf.

I don't know what's in the cleaner but it does shift the crap. Another tip
is to stop the machine once it's up to temperature and the bottle has
dispensed the cleaner - use a j-cloth or sponge soaked in the cleaner to go
round the door seals and hinges.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

Lobster wrote:

I'd still strongly recommend you run it on an empty cycle using one of
those 'deep clean' bottles of dishwasher cleaner on as hot/long a
cycle as possible. I was very scornful of those until I was advised
to use them every couple of months by a dishwasher engineer after I
was suffering similar symptoms to you.... when he visited to repair
ours, he found pipes almost completely clogged with grease, which you
wouldn't get at unless you took the machine apart.

I now use them regularly with much better results than before.


Second that. My dishwasher occasionally leaked and it was a devil to find.

Turned out the water-level sensor was so caked with grease, chicken-fat,
raisin rinds, and other effluvia that the float would STICK in the down
position and more water would be supplied, eventually running out on the
floor!

There's nasty down in there. Nasty with a capital NAS.

HeyBub
wibbled on Sunday 07 February 2010 18:11

Lobster wrote:

I'd still strongly recommend you run it on an empty cycle using one of
those 'deep clean' bottles of dishwasher cleaner on as hot/long a
cycle as possible. I was very scornful of those until I was advised
to use them every couple of months by a dishwasher engineer after I
was suffering similar symptoms to you.... when he visited to repair
ours, he found pipes almost completely clogged with grease, which you
wouldn't get at unless you took the machine apart.

I now use them regularly with much better results than before.


Second that. My dishwasher occasionally leaked and it was a devil to find.

Turned out the water-level sensor was so caked with grease, chicken-fat,
raisin rinds, and other effluvia that the float would STICK in the down
position and more water would be supplied, eventually running out on the
floor!

There's nasty down in there. Nasty with a capital NAS.

Yeah - many dishwashers have a funky head exchanger "matrix" through which
the waste water and incoming clean water pass, moving otherwise wasted heat
into the incoming water. The one I've seen on my Bosch is quite tortuous
inside so if anything is going to suffer, that will be one of the first
waterways to get skanked up.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

wrote:

I tried using one a month ago. I was having problems where glassware
was coming out very spotted. I did some investigating and found
loads of grease below the metal filter at the bottom. I removed the
lower spray arm, the filter scree, cleaned everything I could get
to. But, I figured there must be even more in places I can't get
to. So, I bought the cleaner, which seems to consist of citric
acid. Ran it with the hottest water I could get and added extra heat
cycle.

After doing the manual clean and using the cleaner, the next few loads
were better than previous, but still not real good. After that,
things got back to normal. So, can't say for sure if it was the
manual cleaning, the cleaner. More likely it was a combo of the two.

Another conclusion I've come to is to at least occasionally use very
hot water right from the start and select extra heat. Normally, the
dishes come out fine if I just start the dishwasher on a normal cycle
and don't let the faucet run to get hot water there. It;s a long run
to the water heater, and I'm sure the first cycle is tepid at best,
the second is still probably not at 130 either. I really didn't care
because the dishes were coming out clean and I figured I'm saving
energy. But I would suspect that over time that might allow grease
to build-up because the water isn't hot enough to keep it suspended.

To the OP, it would seem to me the upper arm should spin about freely
by hand. If it isn't I would suspect that either there is some
material in there or something has worn out.

Here I am completing this thread round full circle to some sort of
resolution. (Am I the only one who hates searching through pages and
pages of group threads, not one of which gets a real answer or a hint of
a resolution??!)...

...I have run my dishwasher three times in succession (using Earth
Friendly Products "Wave" citric acid based auto dishwasher gel) at the
longest, two hour, hottest water setting (70C in my case) --

-- And it worked! After the first two goes, I noticed that the
upper spray arm had changed position, and was delighted to find, at the
end of the cycle, that the upper spray arm could be sent spinning round
and round much more freely.

I'm vegetarian, with spring water, and pre-scrubbed the crockery
before loading, and have -- until now -- used nothing but hot water in
the dishwasher. (I eat eggs and dairy. It's difficult to get problems
with solid fats and grease as a vegetarian.) I cleaned the filters and
grid every six months or so.

However, over the course of three years, the dishwasher had got
slightly grungy. This must have gradually made the upper spray arm stop
turning.

So, to recap, running the dishwasher 3 times in succession on the
hottest 70C, two-hour cycle, using either plain vinegar or a citric acid
gel has cleaned everything out, and the spray arms both turn. The
dishwasher is now working properly.

From now on I'm going to regularly use the citric acid gel cleaner,
and to run the hot/long cleaning cycle every so often.

I've had to discover for myself:

Good maintenance really is the key.

Hope this helps in advance,

Sandy


P.S.

Does the upper arm get its water from a tube from the main pump, or
does it get its water from an extendable center post that comes up
from the center of the bottom washer arm when the water is under
pressure. The upper arm should spin "freely". How do you get hairs
in a dishwasher???

From a tube system from the main pump. I realize that everyone
gets the odd hair or two in the dishwasher. However, I'm guessing that
with the caustic highly alkali cleaners people use, the hairs get
dissolved and disintegrate.

"Usenet" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I tried using one a month ago. I was having problems where glassware
was coming out very spotted. I did some investigating and found
loads of grease below the metal filter at the bottom. I removed the
lower spray arm, the filter scree, cleaned everything I could get
to. But, I figured there must be even more in places I can't get
to. So, I bought the cleaner, which seems to consist of citric
acid. Ran it with the hottest water I could get and added extra heat
cycle.

After doing the manual clean and using the cleaner, the next few loads
were better than previous, but still not real good. After that,
things got back to normal. So, can't say for sure if it was the
manual cleaning, the cleaner. More likely it was a combo of the two.

Another conclusion I've come to is to at least occasionally use very
hot water right from the start and select extra heat. Normally, the
dishes come out fine if I just start the dishwasher on a normal cycle
and don't let the faucet run to get hot water there. It;s a long run
to the water heater, and I'm sure the first cycle is tepid at best,
the second is still probably not at 130 either. I really didn't care
because the dishes were coming out clean and I figured I'm saving
energy. But I would suspect that over time that might allow grease
to build-up because the water isn't hot enough to keep it suspended.

To the OP, it would seem to me the upper arm should spin about freely
by hand. If it isn't I would suspect that either there is some
material in there or something has worn out.

Here I am completing this thread round full circle to some sort of
resolution. (Am I the only one who hates searching through pages and
pages of group threads, not one of which gets a real answer or a hint of a
resolution??!)...

...I have run my dishwasher three times in succession (using Earth
Friendly Products "Wave" citric acid based auto dishwasher gel) at the
longest, two hour, hottest water setting (70C in my case) --

-- And it worked! After the first two goes, I noticed that the upper
spray arm had changed position, and was delighted to find, at the end of
the cycle, that the upper spray arm could be sent spinning round and round
much more freely.

I'm vegetarian, with spring water, and pre-scrubbed the crockery
before loading, and have -- until now -- used nothing but hot water in the
dishwasher. (I eat eggs and dairy. It's difficult to get problems with
solid fats and grease as a vegetarian.) I cleaned the filters and grid
every six months or so.

However, over the course of three years, the dishwasher had got
slightly grungy. This must have gradually made the upper spray arm stop
turning.

So, to recap, running the dishwasher 3 times in succession on the
hottest 70C, two-hour cycle, using either plain vinegar or a citric acid
gel has cleaned everything out, and the spray arms both turn. The
dishwasher is now working properly.

From now on I'm going to regularly use the citric acid gel cleaner,
and to run the hot/long cleaning cycle every so often.

I've had to discover for myself:

Good maintenance really is the key.

Hope this helps in advance,

Sandy


P.S.

Does the upper arm get its water from a tube from the main pump, or
does it get its water from an extendable center post that comes up
from the center of the bottom washer arm when the water is under
pressure. The upper arm should spin "freely". How do you get hairs
in a dishwasher???

From a tube system from the main pump. I realize that everyone gets
the odd hair or two in the dishwasher. However, I'm guessing that with
the caustic highly alkali cleaners people use, the hairs get dissolved and
disintegrate.

I expect you will find, for future reference, that the plastic whirly bits
all pull out for cleaning quite easily - ours do - then the holes can be
poked out before steeping them in acid. Our local Asian 'delis' sell citric
by the kilo, and I find a 20% solution of this is great for cleaning all
sorts of things - sprayed on taps/bath etc. Mind u it is a good idea to
descale the parts of the m/c you can't get at, your way too.

Once stayed somewhere where the dishwasher stank if it wasn't used every
day. Ordinary bleach seemed to get at the parts official cleaners couldn't
reach, when used instead of the detergent, and did eventually get rid of the
stink.

S

"spamlet" wrote in message
...

"Usenet" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I tried using one a month ago. I was having problems where glassware
was coming out very spotted. I did some investigating and found
loads of grease below the metal filter at the bottom. I removed the
lower spray arm, the filter scree, cleaned everything I could get
to. But, I figured there must be even more in places I can't get
to. So, I bought the cleaner, which seems to consist of citric
acid. Ran it with the hottest water I could get and added extra heat
cycle.

After doing the manual clean and using the cleaner, the next few loads
were better than previous, but still not real good. After that,
things got back to normal. So, can't say for sure if it was the
manual cleaning, the cleaner. More likely it was a combo of the two.

Another conclusion I've come to is to at least occasionally use very
hot water right from the start and select extra heat. Normally, the
dishes come out fine if I just start the dishwasher on a normal cycle
and don't let the faucet run to get hot water there. It;s a long run
to the water heater, and I'm sure the first cycle is tepid at best,
the second is still probably not at 130 either. I really didn't care
because the dishes were coming out clean and I figured I'm saving
energy. But I would suspect that over time that might allow grease
to build-up because the water isn't hot enough to keep it suspended.

To the OP, it would seem to me the upper arm should spin about freely
by hand. If it isn't I would suspect that either there is some
material in there or something has worn out.

Here I am completing this thread round full circle to some sort of
resolution. (Am I the only one who hates searching through pages and
pages of group threads, not one of which gets a real answer or a hint of
a resolution??!)...

...I have run my dishwasher three times in succession (using Earth
Friendly Products "Wave" citric acid based auto dishwasher gel) at the
longest, two hour, hottest water setting (70C in my case) --

-- And it worked! After the first two goes, I noticed that the upper
spray arm had changed position, and was delighted to find, at the end of
the cycle, that the upper spray arm could be sent spinning round and
round much more freely.

I'm vegetarian, with spring water, and pre-scrubbed the crockery
before loading, and have -- until now -- used nothing but hot water in
the dishwasher. (I eat eggs and dairy. It's difficult to get problems
with solid fats and grease as a vegetarian.) I cleaned the filters and
grid every six months or so.

However, over the course of three years, the dishwasher had got
slightly grungy. This must have gradually made the upper spray arm stop
turning.

So, to recap, running the dishwasher 3 times in succession on the
hottest 70C, two-hour cycle, using either plain vinegar or a citric acid
gel has cleaned everything out, and the spray arms both turn. The
dishwasher is now working properly.

From now on I'm going to regularly use the citric acid gel cleaner,
and to run the hot/long cleaning cycle every so often.

I've had to discover for myself:

Good maintenance really is the key.

Hope this helps in advance,

Sandy


P.S.

Does the upper arm get its water from a tube from the main pump, or
does it get its water from an extendable center post that comes up
from the center of the bottom washer arm when the water is under
pressure. The upper arm should spin "freely". How do you get hairs
in a dishwasher???

From a tube system from the main pump. I realize that everyone gets
the odd hair or two in the dishwasher. However, I'm guessing that with
the caustic highly alkali cleaners people use, the hairs get dissolved
and disintegrate.

I expect you will find, for future reference, that the plastic whirly bits
all pull out for cleaning quite easily - ours do - then the holes can be
poked out before steeping them in acid. Our local Asian 'delis' sell
citric by the kilo, and I find a 20% solution of this is great for
cleaning all sorts of things - sprayed on taps/bath etc. Mind u it is a
good idea to descale the parts of the m/c you can't get at, your way too.

Once stayed somewhere where the dishwasher stank if it wasn't used every
day. Ordinary bleach seemed to get at the parts official cleaners
couldn't reach, when used instead of the detergent, and did eventually get
rid of the stink.

S

Have had similar (not spinning well) on a couple of machines, in both cases
it was gunk inside the arm that had blocked some of the jets.
It wasnt obvious at first as they looked clear but the pressure of the water
when the machine was running pushed the gunk forward to block some of the
jets and then slid back when idle.
I eventually managed to disassmble the arm and in both they were full of
crap.
I also have to look out for my other half as i am sure she thinks the
machine doubles as a waste disposal unit or she puts things that are too
high and stops the arm spinning, those problems I cant cure :-(

ss wrote:
"spamlet" wrote in message
...

"Usenet" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I tried using one a month ago. I was having problems where
glassware was coming out very spotted. I did some investigating
and found loads of grease below the metal filter at the bottom. I
removed the lower spray arm, the filter scree, cleaned
everything I could get to. But, I figured there must be even more in
places I can't get
to. So, I bought the cleaner, which seems to consist of citric
acid. Ran it with the hottest water I could get and added extra
heat cycle.

After doing the manual clean and using the cleaner, the next few
loads were better than previous, but still not real good. After
that, things got back to normal. So, can't say for sure if it
was the manual cleaning, the cleaner. More likely it was a combo
of the two. Another conclusion I've come to is to at least occasionally
use
very hot water right from the start and select extra heat. Normally,
the dishes come out fine if I just start the dishwasher
on a normal cycle and don't let the faucet run to get hot water
there. It;s a long run to the water heater, and I'm sure the
first cycle is tepid at best, the second is still probably not at
130 either. I really didn't care because the dishes were coming
out clean and I figured I'm saving energy. But I would suspect
that over time that might allow grease to build-up because the
water isn't hot enough to keep it suspended. To the OP, it would seem
to me the upper arm should spin about
freely by hand. If it isn't I would suspect that either there is
some material in there or something has worn out.

Here I am completing this thread round full circle to some sort
of resolution. (Am I the only one who hates searching through
pages and pages of group threads, not one of which gets a real
answer or a hint of a resolution??!)...

...I have run my dishwasher three times in succession (using
Earth Friendly Products "Wave" citric acid based auto dishwasher
gel) at the longest, two hour, hottest water setting (70C in my
case) --

-- And it worked! After the first two goes, I noticed that the
upper spray arm had changed position, and was delighted to find, at
the end of the cycle, that the upper spray arm could be sent
spinning round and round much more freely.

I'm vegetarian, with spring water, and pre-scrubbed the crockery
before loading, and have -- until now -- used nothing but hot water
in the dishwasher. (I eat eggs and dairy. It's difficult to get
problems with solid fats and grease as a vegetarian.) I cleaned
the filters and grid every six months or so.

However, over the course of three years, the dishwasher had got
slightly grungy. This must have gradually made the upper spray arm
stop turning.

So, to recap, running the dishwasher 3 times in succession on
the hottest 70C, two-hour cycle, using either plain vinegar or a
citric acid gel has cleaned everything out, and the spray arms both
turn. The dishwasher is now working properly.

From now on I'm going to regularly use the citric acid gel
cleaner, and to run the hot/long cleaning cycle every so often.

I've had to discover for myself:

Good maintenance really is the key.

Hope this helps in advance,

Sandy


P.S.

Does the upper arm get its water from a tube from the main pump, or
does it get its water from an extendable center post that comes up
from the center of the bottom washer arm when the water is under
pressure. The upper arm should spin "freely". How do you get
hairs in a dishwasher???

From a tube system from the main pump. I realize that everyone
gets the odd hair or two in the dishwasher. However, I'm guessing
that with the caustic highly alkali cleaners people use, the hairs
get dissolved and disintegrate.

I expect you will find, for future reference, that the plastic
whirly bits all pull out for cleaning quite easily - ours do - then
the holes can be poked out before steeping them in acid. Our local
Asian 'delis' sell citric by the kilo, and I find a 20% solution of
this is great for cleaning all sorts of things - sprayed on
taps/bath etc. Mind u it is a good idea to descale the parts of
the m/c you can't get at, your way too. Once stayed somewhere where the
dishwasher stank if it wasn't used
every day. Ordinary bleach seemed to get at the parts official
cleaners couldn't reach, when used instead of the detergent, and did
eventually get rid of the stink.

S

Have had similar (not spinning well) on a couple of machines, in both
cases it was gunk inside the arm that had blocked some of the jets.
It wasnt obvious at first as they looked clear but the pressure of
the water when the machine was running pushed the gunk forward to
block some of the jets and then slid back when idle.
I eventually managed to disassmble the arm and in both they were full
of crap.
I also have to look out for my other half as i am sure she thinks the
machine doubles as a waste disposal unit or she puts things that are
too high and stops the arm spinning, those problems I cant cure :-(

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder

yes that works well

On 1/10/2012 1:34 PM, HeyBub wrote:
ss wrote:
wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
wrote:

I tried using one a month ago. I was having problems where
glassware was coming out very spotted. I did some investigating
and found loads of grease below the metal filter at the bottom. I
removed the lower spray arm, the filter scree, cleaned
everything I could get to. But, I figured there must be even more in
places I can't get
to. So, I bought the cleaner, which seems to consist of citric
acid. Ran it with the hottest water I could get and added extra
heat cycle.

After doing the manual clean and using the cleaner, the next few
loads were better than previous, but still not real good. After
that, things got back to normal. So, can't say for sure if it
was the manual cleaning, the cleaner. More likely it was a combo
of the two. Another conclusion I've come to is to at least occasionally
use
very hot water right from the start and select extra heat. Normally,
the dishes come out fine if I just start the dishwasher
on a normal cycle and don't let the faucet run to get hot water
there. It;s a long run to the water heater, and I'm sure the
first cycle is tepid at best, the second is still probably not at
130 either. I really didn't care because the dishes were coming
out clean and I figured I'm saving energy. But I would suspect
that over time that might allow grease to build-up because the
water isn't hot enough to keep it suspended. To the OP, it would seem
to me the upper arm should spin about
freely by hand. If it isn't I would suspect that either there is
some material in there or something has worn out.

Here I am completing this thread round full circle to some sort
of resolution. (Am I the only one who hates searching through
pages and pages of group threads, not one of which gets a real
answer or a hint of a resolution??!)...

...I have run my dishwasher three times in succession (using
Earth Friendly Products "Wave" citric acid based auto dishwasher
gel) at the longest, two hour, hottest water setting (70C in my
case) --

-- And it worked! After the first two goes, I noticed that the
upper spray arm had changed position, and was delighted to find, at
the end of the cycle, that the upper spray arm could be sent
spinning round and round much more freely.

I'm vegetarian, with spring water, and pre-scrubbed the crockery
before loading, and have -- until now -- used nothing but hot water
in the dishwasher. (I eat eggs and dairy. It's difficult to get
problems with solid fats and grease as a vegetarian.) I cleaned
the filters and grid every six months or so.

However, over the course of three years, the dishwasher had got
slightly grungy. This must have gradually made the upper spray arm
stop turning.

So, to recap, running the dishwasher 3 times in succession on
the hottest 70C, two-hour cycle, using either plain vinegar or a
citric acid gel has cleaned everything out, and the spray arms both
turn. The dishwasher is now working properly.

From now on I'm going to regularly use the citric acid gel
cleaner, and to run the hot/long cleaning cycle every so often.

I've had to discover for myself:

Good maintenance really is the key.

Hope this helps in advance,

Sandy


P.S.

Does the upper arm get its water from a tube from the main pump, or
does it get its water from an extendable center post that comes up
from the center of the bottom washer arm when the water is under
pressure. The upper arm should spin "freely". How do you get
hairs in a dishwasher???

From a tube system from the main pump. I realize that everyone
gets the odd hair or two in the dishwasher. However, I'm guessing
that with the caustic highly alkali cleaners people use, the hairs
get dissolved and disintegrate.

I expect you will find, for future reference, that the plastic
whirly bits all pull out for cleaning quite easily - ours do - then
the holes can be poked out before steeping them in acid. Our local
Asian 'delis' sell citric by the kilo, and I find a 20% solution of
this is great for cleaning all sorts of things - sprayed on
taps/bath etc. Mind u it is a good idea to descale the parts of
the m/c you can't get at, your way too. Once stayed somewhere where the
dishwasher stank if it wasn't used
every day. Ordinary bleach seemed to get at the parts official
cleaners couldn't reach, when used instead of the detergent, and did
eventually get rid of the stink.

S

Have had similar (not spinning well) on a couple of machines, in both
cases it was gunk inside the arm that had blocked some of the jets.
It wasnt obvious at first as they looked clear but the pressure of
the water when the machine was running pushed the gunk forward to
block some of the jets and then slid back when idle.
I eventually managed to disassmble the arm and in both they were full
of crap.
I also have to look out for my other half as i am sure she thinks the
machine doubles as a waste disposal unit or she puts things that are
too high and stops the arm spinning, those problems I cant cure :-(

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.



And white vinegar to the load, preferably at rinse time if you're so
inclined to watch it. (one cup)

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.



What's TSP ?

On Jan 11, 9:51*am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...



Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?

Trisodium Phosphate, useta be a common ingredient in detergents, and
also sold in powder form for paint-prep cleanup. Works really well.
Unfortunately, being a phosphate, it acts as a fertilizer when it gets
into waterways, so it is banned in many areas (like mine.)
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

nate

"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...



Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?

Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

In article
,
N8N wrote:

On Jan 11, 9:51*am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...



Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?

Trisodium Phosphate, useta be a common ingredient in detergents, and
also sold in powder form for paint-prep cleanup. Works really well.
Unfortunately, being a phosphate, it acts as a fertilizer when it gets
into waterways, so it is banned in many areas (like mine.)
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

nate

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate

Erik

On 2012-01-11, N8N wrote:

What's TSP ?

Trisodium Phosphate, useta be a common ingredient in detergents, and
also sold in powder form for paint-prep cleanup. Works really well.
Unfortunately, being a phosphate, it acts as a fertilizer when it gets
into waterways, so it is banned in many areas (like mine.)

Yep. I think Spic n' Span use to be mostly TSP. I was not aware of
the pollution issue, though. It was still available at Och Sply H/W
stores last I looked, but the price was up by a factor of 15X. The
same box I used to buy for less than a dollar now costs closer the
$15!!

nb

--
vi --the root of evil

On Jan 11, 6:58*am, N8N wrote:
On Jan 11, 9:51*am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

om...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?

Trisodium Phosphate, useta be a common ingredient in detergents, and
also sold in powder form for paint-prep cleanup. *Works really well.
Unfortunately, being a phosphate, it acts as a fertilizer when it gets
into waterways, so it is banned in many areas (like mine.)
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

nate

Iuse the tablets. How would I go about adding TSP to the machine and
how much per dose?

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...

Trisodium Phosphate, useta be a common ingredient in detergents, and
also sold in powder form for paint-prep cleanup. Works really well.
Unfortunately, being a phosphate, it acts as a fertilizer when it gets
into waterways, so it is banned in many areas (like mine.)
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

nate

Iuse the tablets. How would I go about adding TSP to the machine and
how much per dose?

I put about half a teaspoon on the liquid dishwashing soap I use and it
makes a notable difference.

With a tablespoon. Try one spoonful per load, to start.


Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Harry K" wrote in message
...

Trisodium Phosphate, useta be a common ingredient in detergents, and
also sold in powder form for paint-prep cleanup. Works really well.
Unfortunately, being a phosphate, it acts as a fertilizer when it gets
into waterways, so it is banned in many areas (like mine.)
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

nate

Iuse the tablets. How would I go about adding TSP to the machine and
how much per dose?

Harry K

I'm waiting for someone to say TSP is how you connnect your computer to the
internet.

As with many things, if it works, it's either banned, prescription, or needs
a government granted license to purchase, posess, or use.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"tom" wrote in message ...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?

Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Harry K wrote:

Iuse the tablets. How would I go about adding TSP to the machine and
how much per dose?


Quit using the tablets; use powder.

Pour the contents of the box of diswashing powder in a large bowl, add
10-15% (by weight or volume) of TSP.

Mix well.

Return the mixture to the box.*

----
* Cut an "X" in the top of the box, pour from the bowl, via a funnel, back
into the box. Seal the "X" with duct tape.

Attila.Iskander wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.



What's TSP ?
Also sold under the name of 'sugar soap' for decorating purposes in UK
and possibly elsewhere.

Bob

On 11/01/2012 16:48, Bob Minchin wrote:
Attila.Iskander wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.



What's TSP ?
Also sold under the name of 'sugar soap' for decorating purposes in UK
and possibly elsewhere.

Bob

AFAIK sugar soap no longer contains TSP.

On Jan 11, 5:03 pm, stuart noble wrote:
On 11/01/2012 16:48, Bob Minchin wrote:

Attila.Iskander wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:5IidnbE0k9pTM5HSnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink. com...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Also sold under the name of 'sugar soap' for decorating purposes in UK
and possibly elsewhere.

Bob

AFAIK sugar soap no longer contains TSP.

"Greater than 10% SODIUM SESQUICARBONATE

Ecotoxicity = Not expected to be toxic to aquatic organisms. "

that's reassuring ;)

Jim K

"Jim K" wrote in message
...
On Jan 11, 5:03 pm, stuart noble wrote:
On 11/01/2012 16:48, Bob Minchin wrote:

Attila.Iskander wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:5IidnbE0k9pTM5HSnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink. com...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Also sold under the name of 'sugar soap' for decorating purposes in UK
and possibly elsewhere.

Bob

AFAIK sugar soap no longer contains TSP.

"Greater than 10% SODIUM SESQUICARBONATE

Ecotoxicity = Not expected to be toxic to aquatic organisms. "

that's reassuring ;)

Jim K

Buy here (uk) ?
http://www.intralabs.co.uk/trisodium-phosphate.html

ss wrote:

Buy here (uk) ?
http://www.intralabs.co.uk/trisodium-phosphate.html

Seems a suspiciously small product range for a chemical distributor ...

On Jan 11, 6:12 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
ss wrote:
Buy here (uk) ?
http://www.intralabs.co.uk/trisodium-phosphate.html

Seems a suspiciously small product range for a chemical distributor ...

mmm tho good to see they stock "Chemically Pure Megnesium Sulphate"
whatever that is.....

and "6 Endsleigh Park Road, Plymouth" appears somewhat residential
for a chemical distro.....

Jim K

On Jan 11, 10:12*am, "tom" wrote:
"N8N" wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

om...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Good idea, but read the fine print.

"Not Available To Members in Phosphate Restricted Areas"

Although, honestly, if you don't let your grey water go into the sewer
(e.g. you let it go to a cistern and use it for watering plants etc.)
I don't see the big deal.

nate

On Jan 11, 8:24 pm, N8N wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:12 am, "tom" wrote:



"N8N" wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

om...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Good idea, but read the fine print.

"Not Available To Members in Phosphate Restricted Areas"

Although, honestly, if you don't let your grey water go into the sewer
(e.g. you let it go to a cistern and use it for watering plants etc.)
I don't see the big deal.

nate

I expect the postage would knacker any realistic chance...

Jim K

Jim K wrote:

On Jan 11, 6:12 pm, Andy wrote:

ss wrote:

http://www.intralabs.co.uk/trisodium-phosphate.html

Seems a suspiciously small product range for a chemical distributor ...

mmm tho good to see they stock "Chemically Pure Megnesium Sulphate"
whatever that is.....
somewhat residential for a chemical distro.....

Yes, I'm sure it's just a little home sideline, but I did check their
list to see if they included ammonium nitrate, potassium chlorate and
various peroxides as a terrorist 'sting' site!

On Jan 11, 9:21 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 11, 6:12 pm, Andy wrote:

ss wrote:

http://www.intralabs.co.uk/trisodium-phosphate.html

Seems a suspiciously small product range for a chemical distributor ...

mmm tho good to see they stock "Chemically Pure Megnesium Sulphate"
whatever that is.....
somewhat residential for a chemical distro.....

Yes, I'm sure it's just a little home sideline, but I did check their
list to see if they included ammonium nitrate, potassium chlorate and
various peroxides as a terrorist 'sting' site!

seem mainly to deal in Happy Mondays' "Bez style" mysterious white
powders......

Jim K

On Jan 11, 11:16 pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/11/2012 12:32 PM, Jim K wrote:



On Jan 11, 8:24 pm, wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:12 am, wrote:

wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am,
wrote:

wrote in message

news:5IidnbE0k9pTM5HSnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlin k.com...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Good idea, but read the fine print.

"Not Available To Members in Phosphate Restricted Areas"

Although, honestly, if you don't let your grey water go into the sewer
(e.g. you let it go to a cistern and use it for watering plants etc.)
I don't see the big deal.

nate

I expect the postage would knacker any realistic chance...

Jim K

HUH?!

and the origin of the OP is......................?


OK OK already here's 2 clues "K" "U"
;))

Jim K

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:32:46 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

On Jan 11, 8:24 pm, N8N wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:12 am, "tom" wrote:



"N8N" wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

om...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Good idea, but read the fine print.

"Not Available To Members in Phosphate Restricted Areas"

Although, honestly, if you don't let your grey water go into the sewer
(e.g. you let it go to a cistern and use it for watering plants etc.)
I don't see the big deal.

nate

I expect the postage would knacker any realistic chance...

Jim K

If that is the case, just check your local hardware supply place. Home
Depot sells both the Red and Green boxes in the paint section.

SAVOGRAN brand:

Red box is real

Green box is a substitute (worthless)

....
What is "knacker"? Does it require the use of an accent?

Just curious....

On Jan 11, 9:33 pm, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:32:46 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:



On Jan 11, 8:24 pm, N8N wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:12 am, "tom" wrote:

"N8N" wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

om...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Good idea, but read the fine print.

"Not Available To Members in Phosphate Restricted Areas"

Although, honestly, if you don't let your grey water go into the sewer
(e.g. you let it go to a cistern and use it for watering plants etc.)
I don't see the big deal.

nate

I expect the postage would knacker any realistic chance...

Jim K

If that is the case, just check your local hardware supply place. Home
Depot sells both the Red and Green boxes in the paint section.

SAVOGRAN brand:

Red box is real

Green box is a substitute (worthless)

...
What is "knacker"? Does it require the use of an accent?

Just curious....

ah the poetry ;)

"knacker verb" JFGI?

all the best y'all
Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Jan 11, 6:12 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
ss wrote:
Buy here (uk) ?
http://www.intralabs.co.uk/trisodium-phosphate.html

Seems a suspiciously small product range for a chemical distributor
...

mmm tho good to see they stock "Chemically Pure Megnesium Sulphate"
whatever that is.....


Epsom Salts - for those whose feet cannot tolerate contaminants.

On 01/11/2012 06:15 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/11/2012 12:24 PM, N8N wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:12 am, wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am,
wrote:

wrote in message

m...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Good idea, but read the fine print.

"Not Available To Members in Phosphate Restricted Areas"

Although, honestly, if you don't let your grey water go into the sewer
(e.g. you let it go to a cistern and use it for watering plants etc.)
I don't see the big deal.

nate

funny, it's not restricted when you go into home depot and pick it off
the shelf.

You must not live in a "phosphate restricted area" then. When I go to
HD it's not *on* the shelf, but they do sell "TSP substitute."

Now I definitely do live in a "phosphate restricted area" (Chesapeake
Bay watershed) but I don't know if that means that you can't buy TSP in
any form, or if it is only prohibited in household detergents. But in
any case, I don't see it on the shelves anymore.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 1/11/2012 12:24 PM, N8N wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:12 am, wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 11, 9:51 am,
wrote:

wrote in message

m...

Add TSP to the dishwashing powder.

What's TSP ?
Unfortunately, a suitable replacement has yet to be found, so laundry
and washing dishes is more challenging these days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i01_details

Good idea, but read the fine print.

"Not Available To Members in Phosphate Restricted Areas"

Although, honestly, if you don't let your grey water go into the sewer
(e.g. you let it go to a cistern and use it for watering plants etc.)
I don't see the big deal.

nate

funny, it's not restricted when you go into home depot and pick it off
the shelf.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email