Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor
master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial tone on his
speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back
and pronounces that the master socket is now working, but faulty wiring
in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the
master socket. How likely is that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into
your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I won't use the
extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again
until I get some response on here. Sounds like I might short out the
entire street if I get it wrong :-)

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:48:15 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:

Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor
master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial tone on his
speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back
and pronounces that the master socket is now working, but faulty wiring
in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the
master socket. How likely is that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into
your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I won't use the
extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again
until I get some response on here. Sounds like I might short out the
entire street if I get it wrong :-)

It's rubbish. IF the fault had been internal, he would have had no need to go
back outside would he ? How's he going to explain to his bosses, why he wasted
their time and money I wonder.

Andy C

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial tone
on his speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back and pronounces that the master socket is now working,
but faulty wiring in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the master socket. How likely is that I
wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I won't
use the extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again until I get some response on here. Sounds like I
might short out the entire street if I get it wrong :-)

In a sense it is your fault for ignoring rule #1
which states.
Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into your home
without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and letting it just dangle,
and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby exposed is dead.

I don't think (BICBW) that VM will charge you in these circumstances.
Openreach will do so if the engineer records the cause as customer-owned
wiring, so maybe only your pride has been hurt.


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor
master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial tone on his
speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back
and pronounces that the master socket is now working, but faulty wiring
in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the
master socket. How likely is that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into
your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I won't use the
extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again
until I get some response on here. Sounds like I might short out the
entire street if I get it wrong :-)

You can get master sockets with a user removable plate which reveals a
standard phone socket behind - this one straight across the line. Any
extensions are disconnected when the faceplate is removed. Makes DIY
testing of your internal wiring - or altering it etc easy. Mine has a
built in filter for broadband too, since my router is mounted close to it.

--
*Why is it that doctors call what they do "practice"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial tone
on his speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back and pronounces that the master socket is now working,
but faulty wiring in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the master socket. How likely is that I
wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I won't
use the extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again until I get some response on here. Sounds like I
might short out the entire street if I get it wrong :-)

In a sense it is your fault for ignoring rule #1
which states.
Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into your home
without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and letting it just dangle,
and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby exposed is dead.

But then they could say I'd interfered with the connection to the master
socket, which I guess belongs to them

I don't think (BICBW) that VM will charge you in these circumstances.
Openreach will do so if the engineer records the cause as customer-owned
wiring, so maybe only your pride has been hurt.


I told him not to try and swing this one on me. Said they'd do the
"rewiring" for £90 if required but wouldn't charge otherwise.
It just seems that keeping an eye out for scams from banks, utilty
companies etc is becoming a full time job.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor
master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial tone on his
speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back
and pronounces that the master socket is now working, but faulty wiring
in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the
master socket. How likely is that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into
your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I won't use the
extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again
until I get some response on here. Sounds like I might short out the
entire street if I get it wrong :-)

You can get master sockets with a user removable plate which reveals a
standard phone socket behind -

On a "cable" installation one would have been fitted at installation.

VM don't have the same sort of historic baggage as BT

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 26/01/2010 13:16, Stuart Noble wrote:

In a sense it is your fault for ignoring rule #1
which states.
Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into your home
without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and letting it just
dangle,
and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby exposed is dead.

But then they could say I'd interfered with the connection to the master
socket, which I guess belongs to them

No, the "first" faceplate is specifically there for the consumer to
connect his/her own extensions whilst having a convenient method of
disconnecting from the line. That is why the "first" faceplate plugs
into the underlying NTE5. If you report a fault, then BT will often ask
you if you have tried disconnecting your secondary extensions by
removing the "first" faceplate on the NTE5. It's the "second" faceplate
and the rest of the NTE5 (and the cable between there and the street)
you shouldn't mess with.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial
tone on his speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back and pronounces that the master socket is now
working, but faulty wiring in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the master socket. How likely is
that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I
won't use the extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again until I get some response on here. Sounds
like I might short out the entire street if I get it wrong :-)

In a sense it is your fault for ignoring rule #1
which states.
Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into your home
without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and letting it just dangle,
and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby exposed is dead.

But then they could say I'd interfered with the connection to the master socket, which I guess belongs to them

NTE5 master socket, which is the same size as a single-gang
mains outlet or light-switch, and has a joint half way up so you can remove the two screws
and withdraw the lower half (faceplate)
If it is one of those, you are allowed to connect wiring to your extensions to the
back of the faceplate. Is that how your bedroom extension is wired?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into
your
home without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and
letting it
just dangle, and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby
exposed
is dead.

But then they could say I'd interfered with the connection to the master
socket, which I guess belongs to them

That would be really clutching at straws. The NTE should be a larger
than a normal single electrical accessory with a join across the
front and two screws in the lower half. You are allowed to remove
this lower half to connect in your wiring. Removal of this lower half
exposes a test socket which is where the VM enginner should have
tested the line, thus disconnecting any of your wiring.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Stuart Noble writes:
I told him not to try and swing this one on me. Said they'd do the
"rewiring" for £90 if required but wouldn't charge otherwise.
It just seems that keeping an eye out for scams from banks, utilty
companies etc is becoming a full time job.

Engineers (BT and others) are under heavy pressure to make the
subscriber bear the cost of repairs.

You might want to read through this...
http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-sfi.html

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial
tone on his speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back and pronounces that the master socket is now
working, but faulty wiring in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the master socket. How likely is
that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I
won't use the extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again until I get some response on here. Sounds
like I might short out the entire street if I get it wrong :-)
In a sense it is your fault for ignoring rule #1
which states.
Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into your home
without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and letting it just dangle,
and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby exposed is dead.
But then they could say I'd interfered with the connection to the master socket, which I guess belongs to them

NTE5 master socket, which is the same size as a single-gang
mains outlet or light-switch, and has a joint half way up so you can remove the two screws
and withdraw the lower half (faceplate)
If it is one of those, you are allowed to connect wiring to your extensions to the
back of the faceplate. Is that how your bedroom extension is wired?


No, it doesn't have a removable bit.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:19:14 +0000 (UTC), (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

Engineers (BT and others) are under heavy pressure to make the
subscriber bear the cost of repairs.

You might want to read through this...
http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-sfi.html

An interesting read, thanks,

Andy C

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:19:14 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Engineers (BT and others) are under heavy pressure to make the
subscriber bear the cost of repairs.

Not had that from any BT engineers that I've had dealings with. Now
the fault reporting sales droids is another matter, I report via the
website now it's far less hassle or don't bother at all and find the
man in the hole just down the road who has broken my line whilst
fixing another (don't you just love ali cable...).

--
Cheers
Dave.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble writes:
I told him not to try and swing this one on me. Said they'd do the
"rewiring" for £90 if required but wouldn't charge otherwise.
It just seems that keeping an eye out for scams from banks, utilty
companies etc is becoming a full time job.

Engineers (BT and others) are under heavy pressure to make the
subscriber bear the cost of repairs.

You might want to read through this...
http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-sfi.html


Thinking about it, I suppose the VM bloke can't report "engineer
incompetence" as the cause, so he has to dream up something for the
statistics that exonerates him and his mates but doesn't give the
customer the idea that they have a claim against VM, and also doesn't
generate a bill for the customer.
The way we live now!

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message ...
Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial
tone on his speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back and pronounces that the master socket is now
working, but faulty wiring in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the master socket. How likely
is that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I
won't use the extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again until I get some response on here.
Sounds like I might short out the entire street if I get it wrong :-)
In a sense it is your fault for ignoring rule #1
which states.
Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into your home
without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and letting it just dangle,
and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby exposed is dead.
But then they could say I'd interfered with the connection to the master socket, which I guess belongs to them

NTE5 master socket, which is the same size as a single-gang
mains outlet or light-switch, and has a joint half way up so you can remove the two screws
and withdraw the lower half (faceplate)
If it is one of those, you are allowed to connect wiring to your extensions to the
back of the faceplate. Is that how your bedroom extension is wired?


No, it doesn't have a removable bit.

So much for my theory then.

By the way, what was the cable co called at the time the phone line was installed?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
...


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor
master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial tone on his
speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back
and pronounces that the master socket is now working, but faulty wiring
in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the
master socket. How likely is that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into
your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I won't use the
extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again
until I get some response on here. Sounds like I might short out the
entire street if I get it wrong :-)

You can get master sockets with a user removable plate which reveals a
standard phone socket behind -

On a "cable" installation one would have been fitted at installation.

VM don't have the same sort of historic baggage as BT

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


They do when they connect their line (illegally) to the existing BT internal
wiring though!

Peter

Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message ...
Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Graham. wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message om...
Having waited 5 days for a Virgin phone engineer, he checks the indoor master socket, then our outside box, and gets no dial
tone on his speaker phone. Goes off to the box 50 yards down the road. Comes back and pronounces that the master socket is now
working, but faulty wiring in our bedroom socket had caused the original no dial tone fault on the master socket. How likely
is that I wonder?
More likely it's the usual VM policy of converting their cock-ups into your need for support but, to be on the safe side, I
won't use the extension socket (which strangely appears to be working just fine) again until I get some response on here.
Sounds like I might short out the entire street if I get it wrong :-)
In a sense it is your fault for ignoring rule #1
which states.
Never allow a VM (and certainly not an Openreach) engineer into your home
without first removing the faceplate from the NTE5 and letting it just dangle,
and demonstrating that the hidden socket thereby exposed is dead.
But then they could say I'd interfered with the connection to the master socket, which I guess belongs to them
NTE5 master socket, which is the same size as a single-gang
mains outlet or light-switch, and has a joint half way up so you can remove the two screws
and withdraw the lower half (faceplate)
If it is one of those, you are allowed to connect wiring to your extensions to the
back of the faceplate. Is that how your bedroom extension is wired?

No, it doesn't have a removable bit.

So much for my theory then.

By the way, what was the cable co called at the time the phone line was installed?


Nynex