I need a new system. I live in a flat which has a small kitchen and a
small bathroom - very modest demands. No central heating. I have a
Main Medway gas heater (about 5 years old) which supplies hot water to
the kitchen and to the bath. I also have a small electric water heater
that supplies the shower - a Triton T70 - which is in the bathroom.
This was all working OK but a tiny water leak from the Main Medway
(small drips) means I'm looking at a plumber anyway, So I'm re-
thinking the whole system. At present the Main Medway is in a small
spare bedroom. It's big and makes a noise when the gas goes on, so I'd
prefer a smaller water heater - I'm thinking electric.

So basically, guys, what would you do with my hot water needs? Three
things to think of, kitchen sink, bath and shower.

Questions:
- what could I use the Triton for? e.g. it would be enough to supply
the kitchen sink.
- where would an electric heater go? Could it go in the bathroom?
- what sort of size heater do I need for this modest job? the other
factor is the washing machine in the kitchen - does this need hot
water or not? And if it does, what does that mean for the capacity of
the water heater?
- anything else?

Thanks for all replies - I'd prefer to think this through before
getting a plumber in. Please ask any questions!

andy

Eusebius wrote:
I need a new system. I live in a flat which has a small kitchen and a
small bathroom - very modest demands. No central heating. I have a
Main Medway gas heater (about 5 years old) which supplies hot water to
the kitchen and to the bath. I also have a small electric water heater
that supplies the shower - a Triton T70 - which is in the bathroom.
This was all working OK but a tiny water leak from the Main Medway
(small drips) means I'm looking at a plumber anyway, So I'm re-
thinking the whole system. At present the Main Medway is in a small
spare bedroom. It's big and makes a noise when the gas goes on, so I'd
prefer a smaller water heater - I'm thinking electric.

So basically, guys, what would you do with my hot water needs? Three
things to think of, kitchen sink, bath and shower.

Questions:
- what could I use the Triton for? e.g. it would be enough to supply
the kitchen sink.
- where would an electric heater go? Could it go in the bathroom?
- what sort of size heater do I need for this modest job? the other
factor is the washing machine in the kitchen - does this need hot
water or not? And if it does, what does that mean for the capacity of
the water heater?
- anything else?

Thanks for all replies - I'd prefer to think this through before
getting a plumber in. Please ask any questions!

andy

Washing machines are either cold fill or can be converted with a Y
adaptor to be cold fill.
Sink, basin, shower could all be serviced by an instant type electric
heater such as your triton.
Even the most powerful of these devices will only fill a bath very
slowly. So this requirement needs some form of stored hot water. eg Tank
and immersion heater. This can then provide all your hot water.
If your space heating is electric storage heaters, then the immersion
and these can be run off economy 7 tariff.

hth

Bob

On Jan 8, 9:14 pm, Bob Minchin wrote:
Eusebius wrote:
I need a new system. I live in a flat which has a small kitchen and a
small bathroom - very modest demands. No central heating. I have a
Main Medway gas heater (about 5 years old) which supplies hot water to
the kitchen and to the bath. I also have a small electric water heater
that supplies the shower - a Triton T70 - which is in the bathroom.
This was all working OK but a tiny water leak from the Main Medway
(small drips) means I'm looking at a plumber anyway, So I'm re-
thinking the whole system. At present the Main Medway is in a small
spare bedroom. It's big and makes a noise when the gas goes on, so I'd
prefer a smaller water heater - I'm thinking electric.

So basically, guys, what would you do with my hot water needs? Three
things to think of, kitchen sink, bath and shower.

Questions:
- what could I use the Triton for? e.g. it would be enough to supply
the kitchen sink.
- where would an electric heater go? Could it go in the bathroom?
- what sort of size heater do I need for this modest job? the other
factor is the washing machine in the kitchen - does this need hot
water or not? And if it does, what does that mean for the capacity of
the water heater?
- anything else?

Thanks for all replies - I'd prefer to think this through before
getting a plumber in. Please ask any questions!

andy

Washing machines are either cold fill or can be converted with a Y
adaptor to be cold fill.
Sink, basin, shower could all be serviced by an instant type electric
heater such as your triton.
Even the most powerful of these devices will only fill a bath very
slowly. So this requirement needs some form of stored hot water. eg Tank
and immersion heater. This can then provide all your hot water.
If your space heating is electric storage heaters, then the immersion
and these can be run off economy 7 tariff.

hth

Bob

Hi Bob

I don't have space for a tank, so that's not an option. Right now, the
Main Medway does fill the bath OK - water is hot enough. I could leave
it at that, I guess, but I'd like to know what sort of electric heater
has the capacity of the Main Medway so i could consider a direct
alternative. Space is an issue here.

andy

Electric stored water systems can be quite compact.
There are wall mounted 90L unvented mains pressure systems, 3kW
powered, with about 80min recovery time. They are a rectangular box on
a wall, look a bit like a gas boiler, self-contained and since mains
pressure can be situated anywhere you like. Integral frost-stat, clean
"white appliance" as it were.

Without stored water you are onto a non-starter for filling a bath,
but that need not necessarily be the "600x600x1500mm" space for
conventional CW tank & HW tank arrangement.

I would like one for my mother re 1-stop solution, but one wall is
cinderblock & the other the chimney so I am loathe to allow anyone to
screw anything to it.

"Eusebius" wrote in message
...


I don't have space for a tank, so that's not an option. Right now, the
Main Medway does fill the bath OK - water is hot enough. I could leave
it at that, I guess, but I'd like to know what sort of electric heater
has the capacity of the Main Medway so i could consider a direct
alternative. Space is an issue here.

An electric shower heater is about as powerful as they get for domestic use.
So you will only be able to fill the bath as fast as the shower does.. in
fact you may as well use the shower to fill it.

Right - thanks guys. So looks like I stay with gas for heating a bath
if I don't want some sort of tank. I guess the alternative is to get
rid of the bath and put in a shower cubicle. Does electric run do a
decent shower? My Triton 7 is not up to a really good shower - it's
pretty puny. Can you get a good pressure for a shower from electric?

Having established that, if I stay with the bath, then can I put the
Main Medway instant gas heater somewhere else than in the spare
bedroom. Possibilities are the kitchen and the bathroom. What's
allowed under safety regs? In the kitchen I do have a wall with an
outside flue, but it's above the gas cooker - I guess that's a no? How
far above a gas hob would it have to be, or is it just a case of "not
there". I guess it's not impossible to move the gas hob. doing some
thinking here.

Are we making progress?

andy

In article ,
Eusebius writes:
I need a new system. I live in a flat which has a small kitchen and a
small bathroom - very modest demands. No central heating. I have a
Main Medway gas heater (about 5 years old) which supplies hot water to
the kitchen and to the bath. I also have a small electric water heater
that supplies the shower - a Triton T70 - which is in the bathroom.
This was all working OK but a tiny water leak from the Main Medway
(small drips) means I'm looking at a plumber anyway, So I'm re-
thinking the whole system. At present the Main Medway is in a small
spare bedroom. It's big and makes a noise when the gas goes on, so I'd
prefer a smaller water heater - I'm thinking electric.

So basically, guys, what would you do with my hot water needs? Three
things to think of, kitchen sink, bath and shower.

The output of your Main Medway gas heater is something like 25kW.
(You should be using the Medway for your shower too, rather than
a separate electric shower.)
You can't get anything like 25kW from an electric instant water
heater on a standard domestic electricity suppply, so you'd need
a stored water system. Since you mention bath, that's going to
need a hot water cylinder.

Questions:
- what could I use the Triton for? e.g. it would be enough to supply
the kitchen sink.
- where would an electric heater go? Could it go in the bathroom?
- what sort of size heater do I need for this modest job? the other
factor is the washing machine in the kitchen - does this need hot
water or not? And if it does, what does that mean for the capacity of
the water heater?

You can always feed a washing machine with only cold, even if it
has a hot inlet. No point feeding it hot unless there's a short
pipe run and the hot water is generated more economically than
instant electric. Current models no longer have a hot inlet anyway.

- anything else?

I think you'll struggle to beat the Main Medway for what you describe.
You'll have a brilliant shower if you buy a thermostatic shower mixer
designed for combi/multipoint water heaters. The Medway is very simple;
there's little to go wrong and it's easily fixed. It will all still work
during a power cut!

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

As in previous post, if I stay with a gas water heater, can it go in
the kitchen or bathroom?

andy

On Jan 8, 7:05*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Eusebius" wrote in message

...

I don't have space for a tank, so that's not an option. Right now, the
Main Medway does fill the bath OK - water is hot enough. I could leave
it at that, I guess, but I'd like to know what sort of electric heater
has the capacity of the Main Medway so i could consider a direct
alternative. Space is an issue here.

An electric shower heater is about as powerful as they get for domestic use.
So you will only be able to fill the bath as fast as the shower does.. in
fact you may as well use the shower to fill it.

FWIW we (wife and self) once lived comfortably for several years in an
8' by 30' trailer (caravan) that had a 20 US gallon (or smaller)
electric hot water tank, for bath/shower and dish sink.
We had a propane cooker and an oil heating stove. No washer. Although
as mentioned one can cold-wash or warm hand wash certain items!
Point of this is that with slight plumbing changes? it may be possible
to live with entirely electrically heated hot water. Also if the hot
water thermostat is turned higher (watch out for scalding) the hotter
water can be mixed with cold for use.
Later we did upgrade the electric supply to the trailer but we never
had to change the electric hot water heating tank.
Although gather that in UK gas costs more than electrcity, costs for
the amount of heat involved for hot water use may not be significant?
Terry.

One other question - what flow rate do I need a) to run a bath b) for
a decent shower?

I've seen this expressed thus:

Flow rates (Litres/min)

* 3.4Ltr @ 38C
* 2.7Ltr @ 45C
* 2.1Ltr @ 55C

Alternatively what am I looking for in Watts?

Need some way of judging which heaters are suitable by their capacity

andy

In article ,
Eusebius writes:
One other question - what flow rate do I need a) to run a bath b) for
a decent shower?

I've seen this expressed thus:

Flow rates (Litres/min)

* 3.4Ltr @ 38C
* 2.7Ltr @ 45C
* 2.1Ltr @ 55C

Alternatively what am I looking for in Watts?

Need some way of judging which heaters are suitable by their capacity

The most powerful instant electric showers are around 10kW
(which I personally find fine, but some people find too weedy).
Your Medway is well over 20kW, which is the minimum for running
a bath unless you are happy to run it at a small trickle. As I
said before, it will also give a brilliant shower, but you have
to buy a thermostatic shower mixer specifically designed for combi
and multipoint use (fast acting and unbalanced/varying pressure).

It can probably be moved if you can buy a new flue kit for it,
and the new location meets requirements on outside flue clearances
in the installation instructions. These heaters are hung from
their flue, which will be mortared into the wall and most unlikely
to be recoverable for reuse. There are different flue kits for
different thickness walls (although they are all adjustable to some
degree).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

this is all very useful. So can I situate a gas water heater in the
kitchen? I have an outside wall with a hole in it which would no doubt
take a flue. right now this is above the gas hob. could this work if
the heater were sufficiently high above the gas hob? or do I need to
move the gas hob?

andy

"Eusebius" wrote in message
...
As in previous post, if I stay with a gas water heater, can it go in
the kitchen or bathroom?


No problem in kitchen or bathroom. It is room sealed and has no electrical
connections.

You can put it where you wish, (subject of course to fluing constraints).

Keep the Multi Point, you will always have as much hot water as you need
even in a power cut.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"terry" wrote in message
...


Although gather that in UK gas costs more than electrcity, costs for
the amount of heat involved for hot water use may not be significant?
Terry.

Gas costs about 35% of electricity in the uk for most people.
There is an off peak electricity tariff that is about the same as gas.

On Jan 8, 10:28*pm, Eusebius wrote:
I've seen this expressed thus:
Flow rates (Litres/min)
* * * 3.4Ltr @ 38C
* * * 2.7Ltr @ 45C
* * * 2.1Ltr @ 55C

Which should tell you that electric on-demand water heaters will take
a lot longer than gas to fill a bath... it might actually go cold
first (you probably will go cold waiting :-) You basically have to
store with electric water heating for bath usage.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:

An electric shower heater is about as powerful as they get for domestic use.

Cobblers.
They are available, but the current demand on a marginal supply is a bit
of a light-dimmer.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:

An electric shower heater is about as powerful as they get for domestic
use.

Cobblers.
They are available, but the current demand on a marginal supply is a bit
of a light-dimmer.

Cobblers.
The current demand for an electric shower is about as much as a domestic
supply will take, which is why I said they were available about as powerful
as an electric shower and why I said you may as well fill the bath using the
shower.
There is no point in having another instant heater that is only as powerful
as the shower.
If you want to fit an industrial three phase heater feel free but the
average householder isn't going to.

Do try and keep up or at least read what is said, hint what does domestic
mean?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Andrew
Gabriel) saying something like:

You can't get anything like 25kW from an electric instant water
heater on a standard domestic electricity suppply,


http://www.eemax.co.uk/ Supplied one to me a few years ago and it's
still working perfectly. Iirc it was about 15~18kW which was adequate
for permanently occupied mobile home use. Much larger than that would
have been a bit of a strain on the power supply - as it was, the pulsing
nature of the heater tended to flicker the lights a bit, but it worked
ok, feeding kitchen sink, bath and shower.
The occupier had an ancient gas Ascot, which was absolutely lethal and
gawd knows how the place hadn't burned down or the occupants
asphyxiated. When I showed her the charring damage she insisted on an
electric solution, so I found her one of these.
Similar to this:
url:http://www.e-tankless.com/stiebel-el...ter-heater.php

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home"
saying something like:

Cobblers.
The current demand for an electric shower is about as much as a domestic
supply will take, which is why I said they were available about as powerful
as an electric shower and why I said you may as well fill the bath using the
shower.
There is no point in having another instant heater that is only as powerful
as the shower.
If you want to fit an industrial three phase heater feel free but the
average householder isn't going to.

Do try and keep up or at least read what is said, hint what does domestic
mean?

You really are a ****ing clueless ****wit.