This is a follow on from the man who was complaining about the poor gritting
and salting service we have here in Cornwall.

The weather is harsh , it was bad again last night where I am.

My drive and the lane are like a sheet of ice glass. I cant get a car out
nor in. I have tried shifting it with a spade but its solid. I went
looking for some salt or grit yesterday but none of the DIY stores in a 30
mile radius have any. All sold out. I even went to the supermarkets and
tried to get some ordinary cooking salt but that was all gone too.

Is there anything else I can use to cut through the ice and stop it freezing
again?

"whiskeyomega" @invalid
wibbled on Thursday 24 December 2009 09:21

This is a follow on from the man who was complaining about the poor
gritting and salting service we have here in Cornwall.

The weather is harsh , it was bad again last night where I am.

My drive and the lane are like a sheet of ice glass. I cant get a car out
nor in. I have tried shifting it with a spade but its solid. I went
looking for some salt or grit yesterday but none of the DIY stores in a 30
mile radius have any. All sold out. I even went to the supermarkets and
tried to get some ordinary cooking salt but that was all gone too.

Is there anything else I can use to cut through the ice and stop it
freezing again?

Walk round the neighbours, see who has a chimney producing smoke and ask for
some old ash, by the bucket load. Coal ash is what you want - nice and
gritty. It doesn't have to melt the ice, it'll grind into the top and make
it go like sandpaper.

That's what I did to my drive and frankly it was better than sand.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
"whiskeyomega" @invalid
wibbled on Thursday 24 December 2009 09:21

This is a follow on from the man who was complaining about the poor
gritting and salting service we have here in Cornwall.

The weather is harsh , it was bad again last night where I am.

My drive and the lane are like a sheet of ice glass. I cant get a car out
nor in. I have tried shifting it with a spade but its solid. I went
looking for some salt or grit yesterday but none of the DIY stores in a
30
mile radius have any. All sold out. I even went to the supermarkets and
tried to get some ordinary cooking salt but that was all gone too.

Is there anything else I can use to cut through the ice and stop it
freezing again?

Walk round the neighbours, see who has a chimney producing smoke and ask
for
some old ash, by the bucket load. Coal ash is what you want - nice and
gritty. It doesn't have to melt the ice, it'll grind into the top and make
it go like sandpaper.

That's what I did to my drive and frankly it was better than sand.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...


Dishwasher salt worked for me.

whiskeyomega wrote:
This is a follow on from the man who was complaining about the poor
gritting and salting service we have here in Cornwall.

The weather is harsh , it was bad again last night where I am.

My drive and the lane are like a sheet of ice glass. I cant get a car
out nor in. I have tried shifting it with a spade but its solid. I
went looking for some salt or grit yesterday but none of the DIY stores
in a 30 mile radius have any. All sold out. I even went to the
supermarkets and tried to get some ordinary cooking salt but that was
all gone too.

Is there anything else I can use to cut through the ice and stop it
freezing again?

Angle grinder and blow torch.

Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

On 24 Dec, 10:28, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

I studded the ground instead.

Built some hardstanding a couple of years ago, where I used those
(rather expensive) plastic "grid" slabs that allow grass to grow
through them, for decorative effect.

Turns out they also have the unexpected benefit that up to nearly an
inch of snow can freeze over them, but it remains in the grass holes
and the plastic edges are still poking up between, leaving a useful
walking surface.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Dingley
saying something like:

Built some hardstanding a couple of years ago, where I used those
(rather expensive) plastic "grid" slabs that allow grass to grow
through them, for decorative effect.

Or cut the bottoms from several beer crates.

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:28:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

JOOI, are they legal there? Very much banned here (although the law varies
from state to state), presumably because people try to drive with them
when they don't need them and make a mess of the road surface...

cheers

Jules

In message . com, Jules
writes
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:28:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

JOOI, are they legal there? Very much banned here (although the law varies
from state to state), presumably because people try to drive with them
when they don't need them and make a mess of the road surface...

Chains are not illegal here in the UK

(I know, I asked the police last week)


--
geoff

On 26/12/2009 18:21, geoff wrote:
In message . com, Jules
writes
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:28:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

JOOI, are they legal there? Very much banned here (although the law
varies
from state to state), presumably because people try to drive with them
when they don't need them and make a mess of the road surface...

Chains are not illegal here in the UK

(I know, I asked the police last week)

True but so what. Even when I lived in Switzerland I didn't bother with
snow chains, winter tyres, and the like. What's the point for a week or
so a year, unless you live in parts of Wales, Scotland, Penines, etc.

Councils in some places should perhaps have bigger salt/grit budgets
(and could usefully do more for pavements), but I see no point in
spending gobs of dish on more snow-ploughs or gritters just so they can
sit around idle for 50 weeks a year.

It's a problem here because mostly the temperature hovers near zero,
just where ice/snow/water is dangerous. In places where the temps are
much lower, cars driving along don't turn the snow into ice, and they
*need* winter tyres 5 or more months a year (so they have them).

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"

Bill of Rights 1689

In message , Tim
Streater writes
On 26/12/2009 18:21, geoff wrote:
In message . com, Jules
writes
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:28:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

JOOI, are they legal there? Very much banned here (although the law
varies
from state to state), presumably because people try to drive with them
when they don't need them and make a mess of the road surface...

Chains are not illegal here in the UK

(I know, I asked the police last week)

True but so what.

A Hungarian I know asked me, he was told they were illegal at the car
shop he tried to buy some from

Even when I lived in Switzerland I didn't bother with snow chains,
winter tyres, and the like.

Unless you have left your snow chains on top of your wardrobe in Milan
and you can't get that last couple of hundred metres up to the top of
the San Bernadino pass and have to pay some Swiss Bandit 50 francs to
get you to the top

That is the point at which they would have been exceedingly useful




--
geoff

Tim Streater wrote:
On 26/12/2009 18:21, geoff wrote:
In message . com, Jules
writes
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:28:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

JOOI, are they legal there? Very much banned here (although the law
varies
from state to state), presumably because people try to drive with them
when they don't need them and make a mess of the road surface...

Chains are not illegal here in the UK

(I know, I asked the police last week)

True but so what. Even when I lived in Switzerland I didn't bother with
snow chains, winter tyres, and the like. What's the point for a week or
so a year, unless you live in parts of Wales, Scotland, Penines, etc.

Councils in some places should perhaps have bigger salt/grit budgets
(and could usefully do more for pavements), but I see no point in
spending gobs of dish on more snow-ploughs or gritters just so they can
sit around idle for 50 weeks a year.

It's a problem here because mostly the temperature hovers near zero,
just where ice/snow/water is dangerous. In places where the temps are
much lower, cars driving along don't turn the snow into ice, and they
*need* winter tyres 5 or more months a year (so they have them).


Hi All

"Snow tyres" actually M&S (Mud and Snow) are a legal requirement in just
about every bit of Switzerland between November and May.

Snow chains take all of about 3 minutes each side to fit and are really
very easy (once you've practiced in the garage on a warm day twice...)
Use marigolds when fitting as the cold from wet hands is what is so
debilitating - I can do one chain without gloves but if I manage to do
the other chain I've generally cut chunks out of my hands by then and
that really smarts once it warms up DAMHIKT

It is important to re-tension chains after a few wheel revolutions, and
again after a few hundred metres, and certainly before giving them any
welly as they'll likely snap and have your wing off and possibly the
brake lines too if you are unlucky...

The snow socks are based on 'fluffy glove principle' (TM) you remember
how your gloves would get bigger and bigger from making snowballs as the
snow stuck to the fibres and then to that snow layer? that is how snow
socks work, so in ice they are all but useless, and given that they are
fairly delicate being little more than tyvek, then extended use off the
snow will soon wreck them.

Snow chains incidentally are excellent as a Range Rover substitute in a
muddy field when proper stuck, if you haven't cut too deep a rut to
actually put them on... DAMHIKT

Neil (up a mountain in Switzerland until May :-) )

On 26/12/2009 18:21, geoff wrote:
In message . com, Jules
writes
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:28:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ot studded tyres. Or chains.

JOOI, are they legal there? Very much banned here (although the law
varies
from state to state), presumably because people try to drive with them
when they don't need them and make a mess of the road surface...

Chains are not illegal here in the UK

(I know, I asked the police last week)


Thinking along those lines as well - I keep seeing Snow Socks. They are
a textile band that covers the tread and is supposed to improve grip.
Some people are quite impressed; others dismiss them as rubbish. Any
opinions?

Living at the top of a hill, with 3 or 4 out of the 5 access roads
ungritted, I am most definitely interested in improving my chances of
getting home - or getting away from home. Nine hours on Monday for just
12 miles from work. And I had to abandon car in carpark and walk up the
hill.

--
Rod

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Rod saying
something like:

Living at the top of a hill, with 3 or 4 out of the 5 access roads
ungritted, I am most definitely interested in improving my chances of
getting home - or getting away from home. Nine hours on Monday for just
12 miles from work. And I had to abandon car in carpark and walk up the
hill.

I can't be arsed with chains - but when they're needed they work well -
it's the farfing around with them that ****es me off.
Years ago there came upon the market a four-fingered claw-like
attachment that fitted onto the wheel and tyre and was tensioned by a
simple central knob or nut. Demos were impressive, it took a few seconds
to fit and remove, and seemed to work as well as a chain.

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:45:21 +0000, Rod wrote:

presumably because people try to drive with them when they don't
need
them and make a mess of the road surface...

Studs will damage the road, chains will damage the road and quite
likely to damage the tyre as well when driven on anything but snow at
least a couple of inches deep.

Chains are not illegal here in the UK

But the chances of most people needing chains is minimal and you can
only really use them when the road surface is well buried and being a
bit of palva to put on and off in the cold not worth the effort. You
also need to be sure that chain on the inside doesn't foul (and
break) brake system or body work...

Thinking along those lines as well - I keep seeing Snow Socks. They are
a textile band that covers the tread and is supposed to improve grip.
Some people are quite impressed; others dismiss them as rubbish. Any
opinions?

Might work.

Living at the top of a hill, with 3 or 4 out of the 5 access roads
ungritted, I am most definitely interested in improving my chances of
getting home - or getting away from home.

Do you have winter tyres or general purpose/summer ones? Got winter
tyres on my car and I drove it up a snow pack covered 1:7 the other
day without a hint of loss of traction. Still slippy on ice but
unless you have studs ice is just slippy. The summer tyres wouldn't
pull it up a slight snow covered hill last winter.

Winter tyres have a reasonable block pattern but the real grip comes
from the sipes, the small slits into face of the blocks. Some modern
tyres have very few sipes and thus have very poor performance on
snow. The rubber compound also remains softer at lower temperatures,
winter tyres shouldn't be used when the ambient temp is over about
7C.

My summer tyres are noticeably "off" when in gets down towards
freezing and have very few sipes, hence they are crap on snow.

Nine hours on Monday for just 12 miles from work.

You could have walked it in about 4...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:21:46 -0000, "whiskeyomega"
wrote:

This is a follow on from the man who was complaining about the poor gritting
and salting service we have here in Cornwall.

The weather is harsh , it was bad again last night where I am.

My drive and the lane are like a sheet of ice glass. I cant get a car out
nor in. I have tried shifting it with a spade but its solid. I went
looking for some salt or grit yesterday but none of the DIY stores in a 30
mile radius have any. All sold out. I even went to the supermarkets and
tried to get some ordinary cooking salt but that was all gone too.

Is there anything else I can use to cut through the ice and stop it freezing
again?

Possibly a bit late now but I popped into my mates garage yesterday
and he'd bought some rock salt from one of his car parts suppliers. I
rang em and had a bag put on the next van (arrived 20 mins later). ;-)

Seems to work too.

Cheers, T i m

On 24/12/09 10:49, T i m wrote:

wrote:

I went looking for some salt or grit yesterday but none of the DIY
stores in a 30 mile radius have any. All sold out.

Possibly a bit late now but I popped into my mates garage yesterday
and he'd bought some rock salt from one of his car parts suppliers.

Rain yesterday and freezing overnight made things much slippier than
with just the snow. Luckily I popped into Wickes yesterday, and they
still had some 25kg sacks of rocksalt, my drive and next door
neighbour's now ice free :-)

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:21:46 -0000, whiskeyomega wrote:

Is there anything else I can use to cut through the ice and stop it
freezing again?

Calcium Chloride also work but that's probably harder to get hold of
than sodium chloride.

Don't you have salt in some form in the kitchen? We don't use salt on
food and only add half a dozen grains to cooking occasionally (oh and
the bread of course) but we have salt available both sea salt in the
grinder and cheapo cooking salt.

You don't need much a sprinkling with three or four grains per square
centimetre will do. All salt takes time to start to work and needs to
be mixed with the slush to be really effective. Thats why gritting
roads that don't have much traffic isn't much good, the traffic is
needed to mix the salt into the ice/slush.

Max today of of 1.9C min -4.1C currently -0.4C, very fine snow has
been about all day but no real fall. The vast majority of the 37cm
(14 1/2") of snow that has fallen is still here, the drifts are up to
4 or 5 feet.

--
Cheers
Dave.

whiskeyomega wrote:
This is a follow on from the man who was complaining about the poor
gritting and salting service we have here in Cornwall.

The weather is harsh , it was bad again last night where I am.

My drive and the lane are like a sheet of ice glass. I cant get a car
out nor in. I have tried shifting it with a spade but its solid. I
went looking for some salt or grit yesterday but none of the DIY
stores in a 30 mile radius have any. All sold out. I even went to
the supermarkets and tried to get some ordinary cooking salt but that
was all gone too.
Is there anything else I can use to cut through the ice and stop it
freezing again?

whiskeyomega,

Try contacting your council and ask them to supply a road salt bin or two at
strategic positions in the lane - and that will sort the problem.

It would even better if you elicited the support of your local councillor
and any neighbours in the area to add a bit of weight to your request - and
once the bins are in place, the council will keep them filled as necessary.

Unbeliever