O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?


Mike P

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?


Mike P

Easy.

Detune your TV, remove your freeview box and cut the coax plug off the
aerial.

Then leave your TV where you want to. You can still use it if you want to to
watch pre-recorded DVDs and and videos and use it for playstations etc.

I have done it for the past 5 years.

Adam

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I *do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike *P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:51:04 -0800 (PST), pcb1962
wrote:

On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I *do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike *P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).


Thanks Adam .... so lets hope they do not start live TV on iPlayer for
a while as Peter suggests.


Mike P

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

With the benefit of some space, I've hooked my 32"
TV set up as the monitor to my pc, without the
coax anywhere to be seen. Don't know that I'll
ever be able to go back to anything smaller!

Since ringing TV Licencing to tell them I don't
watch live TV in September, I've had just the one
threatening letter.

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

Incorrect.

You cannot make someone who does not watch a live broadcast buy a TV
licence.

Adam

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

ARWadsworth wrote:

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

Incorrect.

You cannot make someone who does not watch a live broadcast buy a TV
licence.


What do you call a license inspector with a machine gun?

SIR!

are you really that naive, or is plying the fool a cunning stunt?


"What speed did you think you were going, Sir?"

"whatever speed you two police 'witnesses' decide amongst yourselves I
was going. What I think has little bearing on the matter"

Unless you are prepared to hire a silk, and take it to the high court,
arguing that because you have fully functional equipment capable of
receiving live broadcasts by radio waves and the internet, you have
never ever used it to do so, is a very thin defence.

And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal,
its decided on the balance of probabilities, IIRC, not 'beyond
reasonable doubt'




Adam

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

Incorrect.

You cannot make someone who does not watch a live broadcast buy a TV
licence.


What do you call a license inspector with a machine gun?

SIR!

are you really that naive, or is plying the fool a cunning stunt?


"What speed did you think you were going, Sir?"

"whatever speed you two police 'witnesses' decide amongst yourselves I
was going. What I think has little bearing on the matter"

Unless you are prepared to hire a silk, and take it to the high court,
arguing that because you have fully functional equipment capable of
receiving live broadcasts by radio waves and the internet, you have
never ever used it to do so, is a very thin defence.

And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal,
its decided on the balance of probabilities, IIRC, not 'beyond
reasonable doubt'




Adam



Well at least it's not a criminal offence not to watch Bruce Forsyth. I
was beginning to wonder

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

Incorrect.

You cannot make someone who does not watch a live broadcast buy a TV
licence.


What do you call a license inspector with a machine gun?

SIR!

are you really that naive, or is plying the fool a cunning stunt?


"What speed did you think you were going, Sir?"

"whatever speed you two police 'witnesses' decide amongst yourselves I
was going. What I think has little bearing on the matter"


Two totally different types of law enforcers.

You can ask the pantomime bobby ie the TLVA officer to to leave at any time.
In fact I do believe that I am allowed to physically remove one from my
property if they do not leave when I ask them to do so.

I cannot do that with a police officer. I could ask them to leave but I
cannot make them leave.

Unless you are prepared to hire a silk, and take it to the high court,
arguing that because you have fully functional equipment capable of
receiving live broadcasts by radio waves and the internet, you have never
ever used it to do so, is a very thin defence.

Even thinner are the chances of the TVLA taking you to court just because
you just own a computer or a TV.

And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal, its
decided on the balance of probabilities, IIRC, not 'beyond reasonable
doubt'

Reasonable doubt with the TVLA means a confession from a licence evader.
They would not risk anything less.

The TVLA can **** off.

Adam

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

In message , Mike
writes
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.


Unless you already have a big monitor, I've found I've used iPlayer more
since I rigged up a puter to the TV. It's still a CRT so done via
S--video. can sit back in comfort on the sofa. Even the streamed stuff
is ok on the TV when using the higher bitrate streams. Though you need a
reasonable speed ADSL connection for that
--
Chris French

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

Mike wrote:
What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Angle Grinder ...

:-)

Do I need a TV licence to watch programmes on BBC iPlayer?
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.u...ayer/tvlicence

"Catch-up

You do not need a television licence to catch-up on television
programmes in BBC iPlayer, only when you watch or record at the same
time (or virtually the same time) as it is being broadcast or otherwise
distributed to the public. In BBC iPlayer, this is through the Watch
Live simulcast option."

So as long as your mouse finger does not stray somewhere it shouldn't it
should be OK.

However, I'm not an ex-media studies student, and I've no idea how
/they/ interpret either the law or the technicalities of television
broadcasting.

--
Adrian C

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

Stuart Noble wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...

On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

Incorrect.

You cannot make someone who does not watch a live broadcast buy a TV
licence.


What do you call a license inspector with a machine gun?

SIR!

are you really that naive, or is plying the fool a cunning stunt?


"What speed did you think you were going, Sir?"

"whatever speed you two police 'witnesses' decide amongst yourselves
I was going. What I think has little bearing on the matter"

Unless you are prepared to hire a silk, and take it to the high court,
arguing that because you have fully functional equipment capable of
receiving live broadcasts by radio waves and the internet, you have
never ever used it to do so, is a very thin defence.

And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal,
its decided on the balance of probabilities, IIRC, not 'beyond
reasonable doubt'




Adam



Well at least it's not a criminal offence not to watch Bruce Forsyth. I
was beginning to wonder

No, but it ought to be - to watch him, as it were.
..

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

ARWadsworth wrote:

You can ask the pantomime bobby ie the TLVA officer to to leave at any
time. In fact I do believe that I am allowed to physically remove one from
my property if they do not leave when I ask them to do so.

You can even refuse to let him enter your premises and refuse to answer any
of his questions.

--
Mike Clarke

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

Incorrect.

You cannot make someone who does not watch a live broadcast buy a TV
licence.


What do you call a license inspector with a machine gun?

SIR!

are you really that naive, or is plying the fool a cunning stunt?


"What speed did you think you were going, Sir?"

"whatever speed you two police 'witnesses' decide amongst yourselves I
was going. What I think has little bearing on the matter"

Unless you are prepared to hire a silk, and take it to the high court,
arguing that because you have fully functional equipment capable of
receiving live broadcasts by radio waves and the internet, you have never
ever used it to do so, is a very thin defence.

So everyone who has a pc or laptop needs to buy a TV licence? Not in this
country; though that is the position in Sweden.

The law states that a licence is required to watch or record programs when
they are being broadcast. If you're not watching them you don't.

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I *do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..


A year or so back the Sunday Times carried a story on the well known
people who don`t have a tv licence but have tv`s.These are people who
appear on television and are known as "celebrities".
There are several hundred of these people.
They write to TV Licencing and tell them they are not paying to watch
the rubbish that is currently broadcast.They do not try to say they do
not watch their tv`s.TV Licencing does not harrass them or threaten
them like it does the common people.
One of the people named that stuck in my mind was Noel Edmunds.I
know,that`s why I put the "celebrities" in inverted commas.

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

"Roof" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

With the benefit of some space, I've hooked my 32" TV set up as the
monitor to my pc, without the coax anywhere to be seen. Don't know that
I'll ever be able to go back to anything smaller!

Since ringing TV Licencing to tell them I don't watch live TV in
September, I've had just the one threatening letter.

You should shoved it unopened into a postbox with your name and address
blanked out with the words "UNWANTED JUNKMAIL RETURN TO SENDER" written
across it.

When I cancelled my AA membership I received a nice letter thanking me for
my previous years membership and a welcome back offer should I want to
rejoin them in the future.

When I cancelled my TV licence I was sent threatening letters saying I am
breaking the law.

Adam

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On 17 Nov, 20:46, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
When I cancelled my AA membership I received a nice letter thanking me for
my previous years membership and a welcome back offer should I want to
rejoin them in the future.

When I cancelled my TV licence I was sent threatening letters saying I am
breaking the law.

These are simply not comparable. How, having cancelled your AA
membership, could you continue to receive their services for free? If
there was some foolproof technology whereby you *couldn't* watch TV
without a licence I'm sure TVLA would be just as polite, but the
regrettable fact is that many people cancel their licence with the
intention of continuing to watch TV without paying.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:16:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal,

Hmm - it might be different round your way, but in the rest of the UK
TV 'licence' offences come under the Communications Act 2003, which
comes under criminal law...

(Sad, I know!)

--
Frank Erskine

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

John Rumm
wibbled on Wednesday 18 November 2009 00:56

Richard Russell wrote:
On 17 Nov, 20:46, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
When I cancelled my AA membership I received a nice letter thanking me
for my previous years membership and a welcome back offer should I want
to rejoin them in the future.

When I cancelled my TV licence I was sent threatening letters saying I
am breaking the law.

These are simply not comparable. How, having cancelled your AA
membership, could you continue to receive their services for free? If
there was some foolproof technology whereby you *couldn't* watch TV
without a licence I'm sure TVLA would be just as polite, but the
regrettable fact is that many people cancel their licence with the
intention of continuing to watch TV without paying.

Even if that is the case, that is no justification whatsoever for their
intimidating and unpleasant behaviour. Although their communications do
not seem to acknowledge the fact, one is still innocent until *proven*
guilty[1].

I don't see the DVLA harassing unlicensed people on the presumption of
driving

[1] Yes I know that RIPA and various other bits of legislation have
destroyed this universal right without so much as a whimper from Jo
Public, but AFAIAA TVLA have not yet had similar powers of presumption
extended to them yet.


IME the only way of getting through to them is write a letter telling them
to **** off, absolutely literally. I did, and worse. It got an apologetic
reply starting with "I understand you aren't happy..." (really,
Sherlock...).

They then buggered off and left me alone.

When I eventually installed a TV, I bought the licence.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
John Rumm
wibbled on Wednesday 18 November 2009 00:56

Richard Russell wrote:
On 17 Nov, 20:46, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
When I cancelled my AA membership I received a nice letter thanking me
for my previous years membership and a welcome back offer should I want
to rejoin them in the future.

When I cancelled my TV licence I was sent threatening letters saying I
am breaking the law.

These are simply not comparable. How, having cancelled your AA
membership, could you continue to receive their services for free? If
there was some foolproof technology whereby you *couldn't* watch TV
without a licence I'm sure TVLA would be just as polite, but the
regrettable fact is that many people cancel their licence with the
intention of continuing to watch TV without paying.

Even if that is the case, that is no justification whatsoever for their
intimidating and unpleasant behaviour. Although their communications do
not seem to acknowledge the fact, one is still innocent until *proven*
guilty[1].

I don't see the DVLA harassing unlicensed people on the presumption of
driving

[1] Yes I know that RIPA and various other bits of legislation have
destroyed this universal right without so much as a whimper from Jo
Public, but AFAIAA TVLA have not yet had similar powers of presumption
extended to them yet.


IME the only way of getting through to them is write a letter telling them
to **** off, absolutely literally. I did, and worse. It got an apologetic
reply starting with "I understand you aren't happy..." (really,
Sherlock...).

They then buggered off and left me alone.

When I eventually installed a TV, I bought the licence.

--
Tim Watts

Better still "When I eventually installed a TV that I watched live
broadcasts on I bought a TV licence"

You can install a TV at any time without a TV licence:-)

Adam

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:16:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal,

Hmm - it might be different round your way, but in the rest of the UK
TV 'licence' offences come under the Communications Act 2003, which
comes under criminal law...

(Sad, I know!)

They certainly turn up in magistrates courts by the bucket load.
I had to sit through loads, whilst waiting for the case of a
stoned youth who kicked my wing mirror off.

I was also somewhat surprised that there were a few plausible
(to me) defenses launched against the prosecutions, but none
succeeded - magistrates view was definately if you appeared
in front of them, you were guilty, and if you claimed otherwise,
you just ****ed them off. So I wouldn't reckon on teasing the
inspectors and then mounting a defence in court.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On 18 Nov, 09:16, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Frank Erskine writes:

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:16:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal,

Hmm - it might be different round your way, but in the rest of the UK
TV 'licence' offences come under the Communications Act 2003, which
comes under criminal law...

(Sad, I know!)

They certainly turn up in magistrates courts by the bucket load.
I had to sit through loads, whilst waiting for the case of a
stoned youth who kicked my wing mirror off.

I was also somewhat surprised that there were a few plausible
(to me) defenses launched against the prosecutions, but none
succeeded - magistrates view was definately if you appeared
in front of them, you were guilty, and if you claimed otherwise,
you just ****ed them off. So I wouldn't reckon on teasing the
inspectors and then mounting a defence in court.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

We have a flat that we are developing as a let. It is currently
uninhabitable and certainly has no TV. We have been harassed for 18
months by the licensing people and been threatened with court, despite
explaining the situation multiple time by letter and telephone.

Eventually a plea to my MP stopped it all and a £25 cheque by way of
an apology - Result!

Jonathan

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On 13 Nov, 13:51, pcb1962 wrote:

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

They already do to some extent, and a licence is only required if you
actually watch it.

Neil

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On 13 Nov, 15:16, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Unless you are prepared to hire a silk, and take it to the high court,
arguing that because you have fully functional equipment capable of
receiving live broadcasts by radio waves and the internet, you have
never ever used it to do so, is a very thin defence.

So you propose that a licence is required for every PC with a Web
browser, as every such PC can receive live broadcast - not just
through the iPlayer, but also through things like the BBC News website
which I recall broadcasts live bulletins?

(I believe this was proposed to be the case in Germany, but it is
emphatically not the case in the UK, whatever TV Licencing might like
to think).

Neil

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

John Rumm wrote:
pcb1962 wrote:
On 13 Nov, 13:40, Mike wrote:
My TV licence is due and as I do not watch TV live or record
anything, I am writing to TV licencing in Bristol to inform them I do
not require a licence..

So I am now going to carry on using BBC iPlayer etc from now on, for a
few months trial.

What/where do I place my TV set in the meantime? Can I just unplug it
and disconnect it from the Freeview box ... or do I have to hoik it up
into the loft out of site ?

Mike P

AIUI as soon as they start broadcasting live TV in the iPlayer you
will need a licence (whether you watch it or not).

Whilst I appreciate that the non workability or complete daftness of
legislation does not usually figure in the minds of those charged with
enacting it, this does not seem quite right.

Firstly some material is relayed on the internet "live" already - the
news and some sporting fixtures spring to mind.

All BBC channels are live on the internet.

IIRC all ITV is as well these days, though quality is poor.

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

Tim W wrote:


IME the only way of getting through to them is write a letter telling them
to **** off, absolutely literally. I did, and worse. It got an apologetic
reply starting with "I understand you aren't happy..." (really,
Sherlock...).

They then buggered off and left me alone.

When I eventually installed a TV, I bought the licence.

I forgot to renew my SORN on the landy that has become a motorised
wheelbarrow.

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.

--
Cheers
Dave.

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Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.

I disagree.


Humans write the systems. Humans ajudicate the edge cases.

The problem is precisely one of people being tasked to implement rules,
not achieve a particular end result.

The one exception that still exists, is building regaulations.

These are couched as

"This is what this regulation tries to achieve"
"Here are some methodologies that meet the requirements without question"
"However, this is not an exhaustive list"

I.e. there is no absolute requirement to fit double glazing. There IS a
requirement to meet insulation standards.

O.T. Temp stop watching live TV
 

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:44:02 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.

I have to agree re the spewing of computers.
I pay my BT bill "cash" and not a DD etc.
When I get the bill, it is followed the next day by a letter
announcing that payment is overdue .. with the usual threats !!
I think it is BT's way of hoping I will go onto a DD or something

Mike P

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On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:05:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but
the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according
to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.

I disagree.

Humans write the systems.

True but only to what the law says or their interpretation of the
badly thought through specification. The computer then follows that
blindly.

Humans ajudicate the edge cases.

When you can get one involved who has authority to make such
ajudications. Most teletubbies on "customer service" lines can only
follow the script in front of them, they cannot make adjudications
without refering to their "supervisor".

The problem is precisely one of people being tasked to implement rules,
not achieve a particular end result.

But some things are just a rule. Not renewing a SORN is an offence
end of story. What is the particular "end result" for SORN?


--
Cheers
Dave.

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Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:05:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.
Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but
the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according
to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.

I disagree.

Humans write the systems.

True but only to what the law says or their interpretation of the
badly thought through specification. The computer then follows that
blindly.

Humans ajudicate the edge cases.

When you can get one involved who has authority to make such
ajudications. Most teletubbies on "customer service" lines can only
follow the script in front of them, they cannot make adjudications
without refering to their "supervisor".

The problem is precisely one of people being tasked to implement rules,
not achieve a particular end result.

But some things are just a rule. Not renewing a SORN is an offence
end of story.

No. it isn't. There are many reasons why it might not be renewed.


What is the particular "end result" for SORN?

So that vehicles that are on the road do get licensed.

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"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jonathan wrote:
On 18 Nov, 09:16, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:16:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
And since license violation is by way of a civil action, not criminal,
Hmm - it might be different round your way, but in the rest of the UK
TV 'licence' offences come under the Communications Act 2003, which
comes under criminal law...
(Sad, I know!)
They certainly turn up in magistrates courts by the bucket load.
I had to sit through loads, whilst waiting for the case of a
stoned youth who kicked my wing mirror off.

I was also somewhat surprised that there were a few plausible
(to me) defenses launched against the prosecutions, but none
succeeded - magistrates view was definately if you appeared
in front of them, you were guilty, and if you claimed otherwise,
you just ****ed them off. So I wouldn't reckon on teasing the
inspectors and then mounting a defence in court.

What defences were offered out of curiosity?


--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

We have a flat that we are developing as a let. It is currently
uninhabitable and certainly has no TV. We have been harassed for 18
months by the licensing people and been threatened with court, despite
explaining the situation multiple time by letter and telephone.

Eventually a plea to my MP stopped it all and a £25 cheque by way of
an apology - Result!

After a couple of episodes of dealing with similar circumstances, I found
the easiest way was to write to them once with a polite letter explaining
the situation, saying that should the situation change we would of course
notify them and purchase a license, and this was "until further notice".
Then simply bin all further communications from them unopened, thus
without getting wound up by them. They still kept coming, although after a
while changed to be addressed to "The Occupier".





They do at least allow you to notify them via the web site now which saves
a stamp or premium rate phone call.


--
Cheers,

John.

Now I like the introduction of that service. No stamp or premimum rate call
needed

But the big problem is still there. You still have to have your house
inspected by a TVLA officer before the threatening letters stop.

I also notice that it is not mandatory to supply your name on the form.

There should be a box at the bottom that says

"Check this box if you would like to withdraw the implied right of access at
your property to our inspectors"

Adam

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In message , Tim W
writes
John Rumm
wibbled on Wednesday 18 November 2009 00:56

Richard Russell wrote:
On 17 Nov, 20:46, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
When I cancelled my AA membership I received a nice letter thanking me
for my previous years membership and a welcome back offer should I want
to rejoin them in the future.

When I cancelled my TV licence I was sent threatening letters saying I
am breaking the law.

These are simply not comparable. How, having cancelled your AA
membership, could you continue to receive their services for free? If
there was some foolproof technology whereby you *couldn't* watch TV
without a licence I'm sure TVLA would be just as polite, but the
regrettable fact is that many people cancel their licence with the
intention of continuing to watch TV without paying.

Even if that is the case, that is no justification whatsoever for their
intimidating and unpleasant behaviour. Although their communications do
not seem to acknowledge the fact, one is still innocent until *proven*
guilty[1].

I don't see the DVLA harassing unlicensed people on the presumption of
driving

[1] Yes I know that RIPA and various other bits of legislation have
destroyed this universal right without so much as a whimper from Jo
Public, but AFAIAA TVLA have not yet had similar powers of presumption
extended to them yet.


IME the only way of getting through to them is write a letter telling them
to **** off, absolutely literally. I did, and worse. It got an apologetic
reply starting with "I understand you aren't happy..." (really,
Sherlock...).

Yeah - same here (at work)


They then buggered off and left me alone.

Yeah same here ... for a while, then they started again

I don't have, nor do I intend to have one at work

The PRS are even worse

--
geoff

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In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.



Oh yes they do

they've all gone mad though

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8331446.stm


--
geoff

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geoff
wibbled on Wednesday 18 November 2009 21:47

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.



Oh yes they do

they've all gone mad though

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8331446.stm



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/8357592.stm

(Though the council saw the error of their ways and relented)

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

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In message , geoff
writes
In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.



Oh yes they do

they've all gone mad though

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8331446.stm


Just picked up on this

http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/n...ail-handing-gu
n/article-1509082-detail/article.html



--
geoff

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On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:47:59 +0000, geoff wrote:

Real people have very little to do with many transactions these
days.

Oh yes they do

they've all gone mad though

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8331446.stm

Councils excepted. And that is what I thought *before* I opened that
link.

But yet again it's the media making a mountain out of a mole hill.
The playgrounds are enclosed and supervised not not the open public
swings and roundabouts in the local park which is the impression the
headline and opening para gives.

--
Cheers
Dave.

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geoff
wibbled on Wednesday 18 November 2009 22:24

http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/n...ail-handing-gu
n/article-1509082-detail/article.html

Oh FFS.

Bloody judge must have been on crack. I hope this gets the treatment it
deserves at appeal.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

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"Tim W" wrote in message
...
geoff
wibbled on Wednesday 18 November 2009 21:47

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:53:03 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

When I finally DID they threatened me with prosecution!

Its an attitude and culture that has become totally prevalent in the
last ten years.

Obedience to the letter, and bugger the spirit.

Not so much culture, as in real people dealing with things, but the
blasted computers that run everything spewing out stuff according to
their programming. Real people have very little to do with many
transactions these days.



Oh yes they do

they've all gone mad though

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8331446.stm



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/8357592.stm

(Though the council saw the error of their ways and relented)

--
Tim Watts



Oh dear. And it not even a Sunday night

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...%20the%20ducks

Adam