Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking tool,
but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

Cheers
Richard

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 07:58:56 -0800 (PST), geraldthehamster
wrote:

Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking tool,
but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

Cheers
Richard

You can hire the Record type from HSS

"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking tool,
but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

Cheers
Richard

....

Whatever you do, you need to allow for expansion and contraction across
the floorboards' width in response to changes in humidity and temperature.
This is why filling gaps in floorboard can be such a problem.
There's plenty of information on the internet on this topic.

michael adams

....

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking tool,
but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

Cheers
Richard

...

Whatever you do, you need to allow for expansion and contraction across
the floorboards' width in response to changes in humidity and temperature.
This is why filling gaps in floorboard can be such a problem.
There's plenty of information on the internet on this topic.

....


My apologies. You gave no indication that you didn't already know that.


Just taking a quick break and posting nonsense as a result.


michael adams

....

michael adams wrote:
"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking
tool, but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

Cheers
Richard

...

Whatever you do, you need to allow for expansion and contraction
across the floorboards' width in response to changes in humidity and
temperature. This is why filling gaps in floorboard can be such a
problem.
There's plenty of information on the internet on this topic.

michael adams

...

???? Well unless thoughts have changed since my apprenticeship very many
years ago, that sentence about quote "you need to allow for expansion and
contraction across the floorboards' width in response to changes in humidity
and temperature" unquote is a complete contradiction to what I was taught
both theoretically and practically.

You *ALWAYS* cramp any 'natural' softwood T&G or PSE flooring up until
there is a slight bow in it, and then nail the things down as tightly as you
can - and no matter how tight you cramped and nailed the things, they still
shrank over time.

As for 'filling gaps' in floorboards, that's a complete waste of time - you
are far better off taking the old boards up and relaying them - and make up
any difference with new boards that have been left in that room for several
months to acclimatise.

Now for cramping the boards as per the OP: If you don't want to go to the
expense of buying patent floor cramps - you can simply use one of the floor
boards temporarily nailed down and use a number of wooden wedges between
that and the rest to push the boards together. Or if you only have small
number to lay, use a wide lever to push the boards together (although this
would need two persons to - an that's where SWMBO would come in handy if
this is a DIY exercise g ).

Cash

geraldthehamster wrote:
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking tool,
but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

I've seen the bowrench advertised at £50 - £60. It looks exactly like the
Toolstation decking installation tool for less than £10

http://tinyurl.com/yfnye2s

I've got one for decking jobs. Very useful if you get the odd bent board,
fix one end, then use it to force the board straight as you screw it down.
Its not so much a cramp as sophisticated brute force. I'd highly reccommend
it for decking, not sure about floorboards.

It applies & considerable amount of force then 'locks' in place. Deck
boards are 28mm thick & it does on occassion bruise the edge. I'd worry
about what it could do to a tongue or groove.

Good video here http://www.abswood.com/pages/tool_bowrench.htm


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 3 Nov, 21:04, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
geraldthehamster wrote:
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking tool,
but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

I've seen the bowrench advertised at £50 - £60. *It looks exactly like the
Toolstation decking installation tool for less than £10

http://tinyurl.com/yfnye2s

I've got one for decking jobs. *Very useful if you get the odd bent board,
fix one end, then use it to force the board straight as you screw it down..
Its not so much a cramp as sophisticated brute force. *I'd highly reccommend
it for decking, not sure about floorboards.

It applies & considerable amount of force then 'locks' in place. *Deck
boards are 28mm thick & it does on occassion bruise the edge. *I'd worry
about what it could do to a tongue or groove.

Good video herehttp://www.abswood.com/pages/tool_bowrench.htm

Aha! Thank you. Someone on another forum [1] suggested Toostation, but
didn't tell me what the tool was called there. I think if I was using
this to cramp my floorboards, I'd lay them tongue first, so to speak,
and use the tool on the groove side, with a batten to spread the
pressure.

Cheers
Richard

On 3 Nov, 18:31, "Cash" wrote:

???? *Well unless thoughts have changed since my apprenticeship very many
years ago, that sentence about quote "you need to allow for expansion and
contraction across the floorboards' width in response to changes in humidity
and temperature" unquote *is a complete contradiction to what I was taught
both theoretically and practically.

You *ALWAYS* cramp any 'natural' softwood *T&G or PSE flooring up until
there is a slight bow in it, and then nail the things down as tightly as you
can *- and no matter how tight you cramped and nailed the things, they still
shrank over time.

Yes. I think what Michael said is true for a floating floor, where an
expansion gap is needed at the edges, as expansion can ocur as well as
contraction. However, I don't think expansion is going to be my issue
here ;-)

As for 'filling gaps' in floorboards, that's a complete waste of time - you
are far better off taking the old boards up and relaying them - and make up
any difference with new boards that have been left in that room for several
months to acclimatise.

Then again if you're repairing a floor, it's a great deal less faff to
glue some slivers into gaps than take the damn floorboards up, even if
it doesn't look as good.

Now for cramping the boards as per the OP: If you don't want to go to the
expense of buying patent floor cramps - you can simply use one of the floor
boards temporarily nailed down and use a number of wooden wedges between
that and the rest to push the boards together. *Or if you only have small
number to lay, use a wide lever to push the boards together (although this
would need two persons to - an that's where SWMBO would come in handy if
this is a DIY exercise g ).

Wedges were my fallback option; however, the room is around 30 m2, so
I was hoping to avoid a lot of nailing and moving of battens.

Cheers
Richard

On 3 Nov, 22:04, geraldthehamster wrote:
On 3 Nov, 21:04, "The Medway Handyman"





wrote:
geraldthehamster wrote:
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking tool,
but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

I've seen the bowrench advertised at £50 - £60. *It looks exactly like the
Toolstation decking installation tool for less than £10

http://tinyurl.com/yfnye2s

I've got one for decking jobs. *Very useful if you get the odd bent board,
fix one end, then use it to force the board straight as you screw it down.
Its not so much a cramp as sophisticated brute force. *I'd highly reccommend
it for decking, not sure about floorboards.

It applies & considerable amount of force then 'locks' in place. *Deck
boards are 28mm thick & it does on occassion bruise the edge. *I'd worry
about what it could do to a tongue or groove.

Good video herehttp://www.abswood.com/pages/tool_bowrench.htm

Aha! Thank you. Someone on another forum [1] suggested Toostation, but
didn't tell me what the tool was called there. I think if I was using
this to cramp my floorboards, I'd lay them tongue first, so to speak,
and use the tool on the groove side, with a batten to spread the
pressure.

Cheers
Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry, I missed off my footnote [1], which was to the effect that I've
probably committed some solecism by referring to a newsgroup as a
"forum".

;-)

On 3 Nov, 18:31, "Cash" wrote:

You *ALWAYS* cramp any 'natural' softwood *T&G or PSE flooring up until
there is a slight bow in it, and then nail the things down as tightly as you
can *- and no matter how tight you cramped and nailed the things, they still
shrank over time.

Yes, but only after you've allowed the timber to condition somewhat to
room humidity.

If you do this with extra-dry timber fresh from the kiln, they'll bow
and pull the nails (or screws) loose, then you're left with a squeaky
floor.

On 3 Nov, 15:58, geraldthehamster wrote:
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing?

Cthulthu might, as he has enough tentacles to hold onto it while also
nailing down the boards.

Mortals buy a couple of Record floorboard cramp heads from eBay,
despite the postage cost on such a lump of cast iron. Or else hire, as
you don't often use them.

On 3 Nov, 22:15, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 3 Nov, 15:58, geraldthehamster wrote:

Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing?

Cthulthu might, as he has enough tentacles to hold onto it while also
nailing down the boards.

They lock, supposedly, according to what the manufacturer and the chap
above say ;-)

Failing that, I have a glamorous assistant.


Cheers
Richard

geraldthehamster wrote:
On 3 Nov, 18:31, "Cash" wrote:

???? Well unless thoughts have changed since my apprenticeship very
many years ago, that sentence about quote "you need to allow for
expansion and contraction across the floorboards' width in response
to changes in humidity and temperature" unquote is a complete
contradiction to what I was taught both theoretically and
practically.

You *ALWAYS* cramp any 'natural' softwood T&G or PSE flooring up
until there is a slight bow in it, and then nail the things down as
tightly as you can - and no matter how tight you cramped and nailed
the things, they still shrank over time.

Yes. I think what Michael said is true for a floating floor, where an
expansion gap is needed at the edges, as expansion can ocur as well as
contraction. However, I don't think expansion is going to be my issue
here ;-)

Now that's a different kettle of fish as they say lol

As for 'filling gaps' in floorboards, that's a complete waste of
time - you are far better off taking the old boards up and relaying
them - and make up any difference with new boards that have been
left in that room for several months to acclimatise.

Then again if you're repairing a floor, it's a great deal less faff to
glue some slivers into gaps than take the damn floorboards up, even if
it doesn't look as good.

The problem that you can get then, is a rather persistent and annoying
squeak as bits of board rub together when your walking over them - or being
overly energetic in the bedroom (so I have been told by the odd one or two
people that I have done this job for (against my advice and better
judgement) in the long-ago past g.

Now for cramping the boards as per the OP: If you don't want to go
to the expense of buying patent floor cramps - you can simply use
one of the floor boards temporarily nailed down and use a number of
wooden wedges between that and the rest to push the boards together.
Or if you only have small number to lay, use a wide lever to push
the boards together (although this would need two persons to - an
that's where SWMBO would come in handy if this is a DIY exercise g
).

Wedges were my fallback option; however, the room is around 30 m2, so
I was hoping to avoid a lot of nailing and moving of battens.

Just put down as many boards that you want to fix in one go, push them so
that they form a gently bow, temporarily nail the last board tight against
the board and they will go down as you nail them into a nice tight fit on
the joints - should only take a small number of 'moves'. As a matter of
interest, when I was doing that stuff for a living, I never used a floor
cramp and just resorted to the board and wedge jobbie.

BTW, if you can, try and stick the boards in the same room (or one with a
similar humidity) for a few weeks to acclimatise and you really will have a
lot less shrinkage of the boards - not normally possible I know but if you
can....and if these boards are to left exposed, then the difference will be
remarkable in the long term.

As a matter of interest, are the boards from new stock or reclaimed from an
old building?

Best of luck on the job, and I glad I've now retired from that sort of
heaving and banging job - but I suppose that's a damn site easier, and less
tiresome, than sticking T&G boards on walls and ceilings (ouch!)

Cash

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 3 Nov, 18:31, "Cash" wrote:

You *ALWAYS* cramp any 'natural' softwood T&G or PSE flooring up
until there is a slight bow in it, and then nail the things down as
tightly as you can - and no matter how tight you cramped and nailed
the things, they still shrank over time.

Yes, but only after you've allowed the timber to condition somewhat to
room humidity.

As I've stated already Andy, but that is not always possible - especially if
there is no room to store them, or people (or the bloody gaffer) want the
job done ASAP.

If you do this with extra-dry timber fresh from the kiln, they'll bow
and pull the nails (or screws) loose, then you're left with a squeaky
floor.

You wouldn't normally get flooring that dry when I was doing the work in the
distant past - the timber merchants that I dealt with stored the stuff in
buildings with a roof and open sides, and the timber would absorb the
ambient, seasonal moisture.

It used to be great fun trying to nail down boards that could be used as
propellers on 'planes. ;-)

Cash

geraldthehamster wrote:
On 3 Nov, 21:04, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
geraldthehamster wrote:
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking
tool, but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock
tightly.

I've seen the bowrench advertised at £50 - £60. It looks exactly
like the Toolstation decking installation tool for less than £10

http://tinyurl.com/yfnye2s

I've got one for decking jobs. Very useful if you get the odd bent
board, fix one end, then use it to force the board straight as you
screw it down. Its not so much a cramp as sophisticated brute force.
I'd highly reccommend it for decking, not sure about floorboards.

It applies & considerable amount of force then 'locks' in place. Deck
boards are 28mm thick & it does on occassion bruise the edge. I'd
worry about what it could do to a tongue or groove.

Good video herehttp://www.abswood.com/pages/tool_bowrench.htm

Aha! Thank you. Someone on another forum [1] suggested Toostation, but
didn't tell me what the tool was called there. I think if I was using
this to cramp my floorboards, I'd lay them tongue first, so to speak,
and use the tool on the groove side, with a batten to spread the
pressure.


And 'that's the way to do it' as they say!

All great fun Richard - but I think I'll stick to the odd bit of essential
maintenance around the house now - with the odd 'special project' that my
wife, kids (and grandchildren) throw at me these days.

Cash

On 3 Nov, 22:36, "Cash" wrote:
BTW, if you can, try and stick the boards in the same room (or one with a
similar humidity) for a few weeks to acclimatise and you really will have a
lot less shrinkage of the boards - not normally possible I know but if you
can....and if these boards are to left exposed, then the difference will be
remarkable in the long term.

As a matter of interest, are the boards from new stock or reclaimed from an
old building?

The boards are pitch pine, resawn two years ago from old beams. They
spent 18 months in my garage (which is a bit open at the edges as so
subject to the seasonal climate). They're currently stacked, with
battens between, in another room uprstairs, where I aim to leave them
for three weeks or so (is that sufficient, do you think?)

Cheers
Richard

On Nov 3, 10:22*pm, geraldthehamster wrote:

They lock, supposedly, according to what the manufacturer and the chap
above say ;-)

Failing that, I have a glamorous assistant.

I've just taken delivery of two of these Bowrench-a-likes, from
Toolstation. They're made by Silverline. I can't see any way of
locking them once pressure has been applied, so it looks as if my
glamorous assistant is in a job ;-)

Cheers
Richard

On Nov 5, 11:46*am, geraldthehamster wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:22*pm, geraldthehamster wrote:

They lock, supposedly, according to what the manufacturer and the chap
above say ;-)

Failing that, I have a glamorous assistant.

I've just taken delivery of two of theseBowrench-a-likes, from
Toolstation. They're made by Silverline. I can't see any way of
locking them once pressure has been applied, so it looks as if my
glamorous assistant is in a job ;-)

Cheers
Richard

And replying to my own post again (there's nothing like talking to
yourself) - having watched the Bowrench video linked to above, it's
clearer to me now how it does lock in place.

Cheers
Richard

On 3 Nov, 18:31, "Cash" wrote:
michael adams wrote:
"geraldthehamster" wrote in message
...
Would anyone here recommend a Bowrench to cramp up pitch pine
floorboards before nailing? It seems to be designed as a decking
tool, but is a lot less expensive than the Record-style cramps. I'm
wondering if a Bowrench would apply enough pressure, or lock tightly.

Cheers
Richard

...

Whatever you do, you need to allow for expansion and contraction
across the floorboards' width in response to changes in humidity and
temperature. This is why filling gaps in floorboard can be such a
problem.
There's plenty of information on the internet on this *topic.

michael adams

...

???? *Well unless thoughts have changed since my apprenticeship very many
years ago, that sentence about quote "you need to allow for expansion and
contraction across the floorboards' width in response to changes in humidity
and temperature" unquote *is a complete contradiction to what I was taught
both theoretically and practically.

You *ALWAYS* cramp any 'natural' softwood *T&G or PSE flooring up until
there is a slight bow in it, and then nail the things down as tightly as you
can *- and no matter how tight you cramped and nailed the things, they still
shrank over time.

As for 'filling gaps' in floorboards, that's a complete waste of time - you
are far better off taking the old boards up and relaying them - and make up
any difference with new boards that have been left in that room for several
months to acclimatise.

Now for cramping the boards as per the OP: If you don't want to go to the
expense of buying patent floor cramps - you can simply use one of the floor
boards temporarily nailed down and use a number of wooden wedges between
that and the rest to push the boards together. *Or if you only have small
number to lay, use a wide lever to push the boards together (although this
would need two persons to - an that's where SWMBO would come in handy if
this is a DIY exercise g ).

Cash

Cash is dead right in all respects
Folding sliding wedges on a nailed batten will do the trick
It IS sensible to leave a gap around the perimeter under the skirting
Chris

On 4 Nov, 12:20, geraldthehamster wrote:
On 3 Nov, 22:36, "Cash" wrote:

BTW, if you can, try and stick the boards in the same room (or one with a
similar humidity) for a few weeks to acclimatise and you really will have a
lot less shrinkage of the boards - not normally possible I know but if you
can....and if these boards are to left exposed, then the difference will be
remarkable in the long term.

As a matter of interest, are the boards from new stock or reclaimed from an
old building?

The boards are pitch pine, resawn two years ago from old beams. They
spent 18 months in my garage (which is a bit open at the edges as so
subject to the seasonal climate). They're currently stacked, with
battens between, in another room uprstairs, where I aim to leave them
for three weeks or so (is that sufficient, do you think?)

Cheers
Richard

I would go for more than 3 weeks at Room Temp - and I would simple
measure a few samples in a known place until they stop shrinking
not point in doing this and then having gaps
Also consider Sound Deadening quilt
Chris