http://www.dysonceramics.f9.co.uk/burners.htm


---
BigWallop

http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 30/06/03

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:09:00 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.net...

Come on IMM, a golden opportunity to sell me one of those flameless
boilers
you are fond of. Where can I get them? What is the SEDBUK rating? How much
do they cost? I am a very persuadable type, but I haven't come across any
in
my travels.

Christian,

Here is some info. They even have a combi version:

NST, an Italian company, has introduced the first domestic NO-FLAME gas
boiler with "constant" efficiencies of 96% at full or part-load, at either
end of the modulated burner range, without using condenser technology. They
exceed the EU standard on energy saving going higher than the 4 star
maximum. The emissions are super low compared to traditional rail burners.

On part-load conventional boiler efficiency drops off being highest at full
load. Boiler efficiencies were rated not taking into account of the latent
heat available. So, when condensing boiler came along (developed in
Holland), extract latent heat from the flue gasses, efficiencies of over
100% could be reached. These efficiencies are never constant due to the
loading factors of the system and boiler.

All boilers have 2 ranges of:
1. 8kW - 22kW
2. 8kW - 24kW

The boilers are the:
Sogno Mark 1 - An unvented cylinder combi.
Sogno Mark 2 - A "instantaneous" combi.
Sogno Mark 3 - System boiler.

The heat exchanger is a stainless steel cylinder with a spiral copper tube.
The control system is a computer controlled PID controller with a PC
interface. An anti-cycling device is incorporated.

No-Flame Boiler

Using a process of low temperature combustion that does not support a flame
high radiant heat is produced. No-flame ceramic fibre burners produce heat
by combustion of air and gas burning at a temperature below that which
supports a flame. No-flame burner boilers offer very high efficiencies,
irrespective of the temperature of the return pipe, unlike condensing
boilers, and maintain this efficiency throughout the modulated range of the
gas burner. The radiant qualities of the burners make them suited to spiral
tube heat exchangers.

With condensing boilers, to gain maximum efficiencies a system ideally will
be engineered to keep the return temperature as low as possible. No-flame
boilers give constant high efficiency at full or part load, releasing the
designer of the constraint of condensing boiler system design. A low return
temperature may not be achievable in some situations, especially when fixing
a boiler to an existing system.

A brief description of the No Flame ceramic fibre burner.

New to the domestic market, this state-of-the-art technology offers high
efficiencies over the full modulated range of the boiler output. Full
efficiency is maintained at full and part load of the boiler. The gas does
not burn with a visual flame. Air and gas, thoroughly pre-mixed, burn on
the outer surface of a ceramic fibre radiant burner of a long cylindrical
shape. Operating below the temperature necessary to support flame
combustion, a low intensity radiant heat is produced. A bright orange
incandescence is visible from the burner. Most of the heat generated by the
combustion process is transmitted by radiant flux. The core of the burner
fibre material is a stable low temp of 20-30C, while the surface is
stabilised at 900-1000C. No-flame burners are silent. The burners, when
used with spiral tube heat exchangers produce a uniform heat flow, with high
efficiency at low power. The low burn temperature drastically reduces the
formation of Nitrogen Oxide (NOx). A comparison of polluting gas emissions
shows that a boiler with an atmospheric burner produces an average of 100
parts per million (ppm) of nitrogen-oxides. However, as a result of the
surface combustion of no-flame burners, Nitrogen Oxide levels of 2 to 12
ppm, a reduction of 90%, while maintaining very low CO emissions between 10
and 40 ppm, are achieved.

The boilers are imported to the UK by a company near Liverpool:

AEL,
6 Berkeley Crt,
Manor Park,
Runcorn,
Cheshire
WA7 1TQ

Tel: 1928 579068

When asking for details ask for the Sogno Mark 1, 2 & 3 brochure.

This technology has been in commercial boilers for a while and is now
filtered down to the domestic market. I see them replacing condensers, or
an advanced condenser version being introduced if the there is enough useful
heat left in the flue gasses. This is the first and no doubt there will be
many more to come by other makers, probably with higher efficiencies. NST
are a large company, with a good pedigree, that make commercial boilers.

I would like to see independent tests of the boiler - it would be
interesting reading




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 05/06/2003


Sorry but your info re AEL is out of date, they have gone into
liquidation. they are trading under a different name now. I do not
recommend buying a Sogno from them. How do I know? I bought a Sogno Mk
2 a couple of years ago from them, it went wrong last year and the
only way I got the part was to contact NST in Italy after a 6 week run
around from AEL. Needless to say I got the part from NST in three
days, not bad considering the Italian post is not supposed to be that
good.

Jan.....

"Jan Piechocki" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:09:00 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.net...

Come on IMM, a golden opportunity to sell me one of those flameless
boilers
you are fond of. Where can I get them? What is the SEDBUK rating? How
much
do they cost? I am a very persuadable type, but I haven't come across
any
in
my travels.

Christian,

Here is some info. They even have a combi version:

NST, an Italian company, has introduced the first domestic NO-FLAME gas
boiler with "constant" efficiencies of 96% at full or part-load, at
either
end of the modulated burner range, without using condenser technology.
They
exceed the EU standard on energy saving going higher than the 4 star
maximum. The emissions are super low compared to traditional rail
burners.

On part-load conventional boiler efficiency drops off being highest at
full
load. Boiler efficiencies were rated not taking into account of the
latent
heat available. So, when condensing boiler came along (developed in
Holland), extract latent heat from the flue gasses, efficiencies of over
100% could be reached. These efficiencies are never constant due to the
loading factors of the system and boiler.

All boilers have 2 ranges of:
1. 8kW - 22kW
2. 8kW - 24kW

The boilers are the:
Sogno Mark 1 - An unvented cylinder combi.
Sogno Mark 2 - A "instantaneous" combi.
Sogno Mark 3 - System boiler.

The heat exchanger is a stainless steel cylinder with a spiral copper
tube.
The control system is a computer controlled PID controller with a PC
interface. An anti-cycling device is incorporated.

No-Flame Boiler

Using a process of low temperature combustion that does not support a
flame
high radiant heat is produced. No-flame ceramic fibre burners produce
heat
by combustion of air and gas burning at a temperature below that which
supports a flame. No-flame burner boilers offer very high efficiencies,
irrespective of the temperature of the return pipe, unlike condensing
boilers, and maintain this efficiency throughout the modulated range of
the
gas burner. The radiant qualities of the burners make them suited to
spiral
tube heat exchangers.

With condensing boilers, to gain maximum efficiencies a system ideally
will
be engineered to keep the return temperature as low as possible.
No-flame
boilers give constant high efficiency at full or part load, releasing the
designer of the constraint of condensing boiler system design. A low
return
temperature may not be achievable in some situations, especially when
fixing
a boiler to an existing system.

A brief description of the No Flame ceramic fibre burner.

New to the domestic market, this state-of-the-art technology offers high
efficiencies over the full modulated range of the boiler output. Full
efficiency is maintained at full and part load of the boiler. The gas
does
not burn with a visual flame. Air and gas, thoroughly pre-mixed, burn on
the outer surface of a ceramic fibre radiant burner of a long cylindrical
shape. Operating below the temperature necessary to support flame
combustion, a low intensity radiant heat is produced. A bright orange
incandescence is visible from the burner. Most of the heat generated by
the
combustion process is transmitted by radiant flux. The core of the
burner
fibre material is a stable low temp of 20-30C, while the surface is
stabilised at 900-1000C. No-flame burners are silent. The burners, when
used with spiral tube heat exchangers produce a uniform heat flow, with
high
efficiency at low power. The low burn temperature drastically reduces
the
formation of Nitrogen Oxide (NOx). A comparison of polluting gas
emissions
shows that a boiler with an atmospheric burner produces an average of 100
parts per million (ppm) of nitrogen-oxides. However, as a result of the
surface combustion of no-flame burners, Nitrogen Oxide levels of 2 to 12
ppm, a reduction of 90%, while maintaining very low CO emissions between
10
and 40 ppm, are achieved.

The boilers are imported to the UK by a company near Liverpool:

AEL,
6 Berkeley Crt,
Manor Park,
Runcorn,
Cheshire
WA7 1TQ

Tel: 1928 579068

When asking for details ask for the Sogno Mark 1, 2 & 3 brochure.

This technology has been in commercial boilers for a while and is now
filtered down to the domestic market. I see them replacing condensers,
or
an advanced condenser version being introduced if the there is enough
useful
heat left in the flue gasses. This is the first and no doubt there will
be
many more to come by other makers, probably with higher efficiencies.
NST
are a large company, with a good pedigree, that make commercial boilers.

I would like to see independent tests of the boiler - it would be
interesting reading




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 05/06/2003


Sorry but your info re AEL is out of date, they have gone into
liquidation. they are trading under a different name now. I do not
recommend buying a Sogno from them. How do I know? I bought a Sogno Mk
2 a couple of years ago from them, it went wrong last year and the
only way I got the part was to contact NST in Italy after a 6 week run
around from AEL. Needless to say I got the part from NST in three
days, not bad considering the Italian post is not supposed to be that
good.

Jan.....

Who are the Sogno dealers now? How is the boiler? Performance? Economy?
Etc?


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 05/06/2003

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:20:45 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

..

Who are the Sogno dealers now? How is the boiler? Performance? Economy?
Etc?


Why don't you call them in Italy? There might be a business
opportunity for you......


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Why don't you call them in Italy? There might be a business
opportunity for you......

As residential consultant, hopefully.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn