After much bollock scratching I've manage to upload a few pics. Please
hurl the usual derision.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
After much bollock scratching I've manage to upload a few pics. Please
hurl the usual derision.

Ah, that's better ;-)

Now reading between the lines, and comparing your pictures to those on
the TLC web site; I would guess that your pots are designed to be used
only with a gland since they don't include any explicit way of making an
earth connection and one would have to rely on the mechanical clamping
of the gland to a conductive box, or the use of a piranha style backnut
to get the earth connection (as with SWA). Whereas the ones pictured on
the TLC site:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P...3/MIRPS2L1.JPG

included soldered on tails for the purpose...

Yes. Never actually used those but knew they existed.

My assumption was that most here would likely use pyro in something like
a conservatory etc with bare brick walls. In which case switches and
sockets etc would be steel surface mount. Or BESA box fittings. But I
can't see anything against soldering an earth wire to the outside of a pot
- before fitting it - or using a clamp on the sheath - if the termination
is used elsewhere.

I remember ages ago installing a 2H16 riser on a house conversion to
flats where it had (practically) to be surface mount and this was the
neatest solution. And work hardening was something else pulling it through
a tortuous route. So it just had to be jointed at one point. Made a very
neat job using a BESA box - but the LEB inspector insisted on an external
earth bond between the sections, even although it tested perfectly.

(talking about said picture - any idea what the black round thing on the
left is?)

Not a clue. Weird.

Wonder how old the pic is by the sleeve colours? Mostly terminations come
(came) with just black sleeving so you had to identify them afterwards.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:31:34 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
After much bollock scratching I've manage to upload a few pics. Please
hurl the usual derision.

Ah, that's better ;-)

Now reading between the lines, and comparing your pictures to those on
the TLC web site; I would guess that your pots are designed to be used
only with a gland since they don't include any explicit way of making an
earth connection and one would have to rely on the mechanical clamping
of the gland to a conductive box, or the use of a piranha style backnut
to get the earth connection (as with SWA). Whereas the ones pictured on
the TLC site:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P...3/MIRPS2L1.JPG

included soldered on tails for the purpose...

Yes. Never actually used those but knew they existed.

My assumption was that most here would likely use pyro in something like
a conservatory etc with bare brick walls. In which case switches and
sockets etc would be steel surface mount. Or BESA box fittings. But I
can't see anything against soldering an earth wire to the outside of a pot
- before fitting it - or using a clamp on the sheath - if the termination
is used elsewhere.

Solder alone on a surface does not make a sound mechanical joint, it can
easily be torn off, which is why the ones in the TLC pic are (or appear
to be) soldered into holes drilled through the pot. Would be even
stronger if the ends were splayed out in a countersunk hole where we can
see the solder.

Phil

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
Solder alone on a surface does not make a sound mechanical joint, it can
easily be torn off, which is why the ones in the TLC pic are (or appear
to be) soldered into holes drilled through the pot. Would be even
stronger if the ends were splayed out in a countersunk hole where we can
see the solder.

IMHO soldering a piece of 1.5mm along the length of the pot would be
plenty strong - it's not going to be subject to any stress once installed.
But you could use a clamp instead.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:23:38 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
Solder alone on a surface does not make a sound mechanical joint, it can
easily be torn off, which is why the ones in the TLC pic are (or appear
to be) soldered into holes drilled through the pot. Would be even
stronger if the ends were splayed out in a countersunk hole where we can
see the solder.

IMHO soldering a piece of 1.5mm along the length of the pot would be
plenty strong - it's not going to be subject to any stress once installed.
But you could use a clamp instead.

In a straight pull, yes, but if there is any peeling action it wouldn't
stand a chance, even if they managed a perfectly soldered joint on that
chunk of brass. I'm pretty sure unaided solder is against some reg or
other, it was certainly bannned by Engineering and QC where I worked.

I would just mention the clamp option - anyone that's good enough at
soldering can make their own decision to do otherwise.

Phil

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
IMHO soldering a piece of 1.5mm along the length of the pot would be
plenty strong - it's not going to be subject to any stress once installed.
But you could use a clamp instead.

In a straight pull, yes, but if there is any peeling action it wouldn't
stand a chance, even if they managed a perfectly soldered joint on that
chunk of brass. I'm pretty sure unaided solder is against some reg or
other, it was certainly bannned by Engineering and QC where I worked.

I would just mention the clamp option - anyone that's good enough at
soldering can make their own decision to do otherwise.

Don't think so. If anyone needs a termination with earth wire these can be
bought - as John described

I'm quite happy 'inventing' such things for my own use in my own place -
but wouldn't recommend it in such an article. I think I'm already pushing
my luck by giving a method to fit the termination without using the
special tools. Remembering dribble and the hacksaw...

FWIW, I've never really come across a situation where such an earth wire
is needed. If the feeds to your pyro installation are in TW&E, use a BESA
box as the JB, and connect the TW&E earth to that - there's a threaded
hole provided for an earth screw.

--
*Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.) *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:28:25 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
IMHO soldering a piece of 1.5mm along the length of the pot would be
plenty strong - it's not going to be subject to any stress once installed.
But you could use a clamp instead.

In a straight pull, yes, but if there is any peeling action it wouldn't
stand a chance, even if they managed a perfectly soldered joint on that
chunk of brass. I'm pretty sure unaided solder is against some reg or
other, it was certainly bannned by Engineering and QC where I worked.

I would just mention the clamp option - anyone that's good enough at
soldering can make their own decision to do otherwise.

Don't think so. If anyone needs a termination with earth wire these can be
bought - as John described

Agreed, I was just picking up on the bit where you said you could use a
clamp instead.

I'm quite happy 'inventing' such things for my own use in my own place -
but wouldn't recommend it in such an article.

Fair enough, and aol me to /aol

I think I'm already pushing
my luck by giving a method to fit the termination without using the
special tools.

Not at all, I found it really useful - I have a small garden workshop on
my wish list and I'm now in a much better position to weigh-up pyro as
an option to get power out there.

Remembering dribble and the hacksaw...

Indeed, but did you look at page 13 of
http://www.tycothermal.com/uk/englis...DE-0801_R2.pdf

FWIW, I've never really come across a situation where such an earth wire
is needed. If the feeds to your pyro installation are in TW&E, use a BESA
box as the JB, and connect the TW&E earth to that - there's a threaded
hole provided for an earth screw.

Phil

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
I think I'm already pushing my luck by giving a method to fit the
termination without using the special tools.

Not at all, I found it really useful - I have a small garden workshop on
my wish list and I'm now in a much better position to weigh-up pyro as
an option to get power out there.

It was only really for interest. Don't expect many to make use of it.

To get power to an outbuilding I'd say SWA a better option. And cheaper,
as well as more readily available. Inside the workshop, my choice would be
steel conduit and steel surface mount accessories.

Pyro has largely gone out of use because there are easier and cheaper
alternatives. As I said at the start of the article it's only really
worth using for cosmetic reasons in most domestic situations. Like running
across an exposed oak beam. Or brickwork in a conservatory, etc.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:23:19 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
I think I'm already pushing my luck by giving a method to fit the
termination without using the special tools.

Not at all, I found it really useful - I have a small garden workshop on
my wish list and I'm now in a much better position to weigh-up pyro as
an option to get power out there.

It was only really for interest. Don't expect many to make use of it.

To get power to an outbuilding I'd say SWA a better option. And cheaper,
as well as more readily available. Inside the workshop, my choice would be
steel conduit and steel surface mount accessories.

Pyro has largely gone out of use because there are easier and cheaper
alternatives. As I said at the start of the article it's only really
worth using for cosmetic reasons in most domestic situations. Like running
across an exposed oak beam. Or brickwork in a conservatory, etc.

Whoa, I didn't say pyro's my chosen option!! You've helped me decide
NOT to choose it, LOL. It's marketed as a fireproof cabling system which
it does appear to excel at.

Phil