Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages, it's
most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't been
able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don

Donwill wrote:
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages, it's
most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't been
able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don



Sign up to someone like...

https://news.individual.net/register.php

10 euros a year.

Andy C

Donwill wrote:
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.

Highly likely it's Tiscali.

There are other usenet providers (Eternal-September, News Individual)
with better service. News Individual is not free, but 10 Euros / year
for a service with good retention and filtered from Spam.
http://www.individual.net/

Tiscali WAS a bottom feeder operation purely collecting subscriptions
and broken bits of infrastructure and pretending to be competant. It's
your descision whether to suffer on, and hope that the new owners
Carphone Warehouse can throw more monkeys at it - or find a faster and
cheaper service.

--
Adrian C

"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don


Your news reader is no longer supported, try a new one like window live mail
from get.live.com as its the M$ replacement for OE.

Failing that you could go into options-maintenance and reset the group so
it re-downloads all the headers and see if that helps.

"dennis@home" gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Your news reader is no longer supported, try a new one like window live
mail from get.live.com as its the M$ replacement for OE.

Or you could try an actual news client, instead of a fairly crap mail
client that just happens to also do news (badly).

On Aug 4, 9:36*am, Adrian C wrote:
Tiscali WAS a bottom feeder operation purely collecting subscriptions
and broken bits of infrastructure and pretending to be competant. It's
your descision whether to suffer on, and hope that the new owners
Carphone Warehouse can throw more monkeys at it

On the evidence of thier own news server, I wish you a long and happy
life, living in hope.

MBQ

Donwill wrote:
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages, it's
most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't been
able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don


Use an alternative one not connected to any ISP.

This one (albasani.net) only does a limited subset of text only, but its
more reliable than my ISP's was and is free.

AND I can now get ready to ditch my ISP and move later this year,
without having TOO much pain..

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
"dennis@home" gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Your news reader is no longer supported, try a new one like window live
mail from get.live.com as its the M$ replacement for OE.

Or you could try an actual news client, instead of a fairly crap mail
client that just happens to also do news (badly).

I have tried a few like xnews, they are all pretty cr@p.

"Huge" wrote in message
...


Better yet, completely ignore everything that Dennis says, preferably
by killfiling him, since he has to my knowledge never posted anything
useful, ever.

What's up huge, don't like it since you posted something in the other group
i use and they all said to killfile you like they already had?

"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don

Many thanks to you all, I have now paid my 10 Euros to Netnews, all I have
to do now is to set it up but there seems to be plenty of info on the site
to get started. I have OE and Mozilla Thunderbird on my computer, any advice
on which to use or perhaps some other one ?

Regards

Don

Donwill wrote:
"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don

Many thanks to you all, I have now paid my 10 Euros to Netnews, all I have
to do now is to set it up but there seems to be plenty of info on the site
to get started. I have OE and Mozilla Thunderbird on my computer, any advice
on which to use or perhaps some other one ?

Thunderbird is just 'good enough' whereas OE isn't IME fit for anything..


Regards

Don

On Aug 4, 10:15*am, Huge wrote:
On 2009-08-04, Adrian C wrote:

Tiscali WAS a bottom feeder operation purely collecting subscriptions
and broken bits of infrastructure and pretending to be competant. It's
your descision whether to suffer on, and hope that the new owners
Carphone Warehouse can throw more monkeys at it -

Don't hold your breath; CW are even bigger scum than Tiscali.

Maybe, but there's little to fault their broadband and phone service.

MBQ

Donwill wrote:
"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don

Many thanks to you all, I have now paid my 10 Euros to Netnews, all I have
to do now is to set it up but there seems to be plenty of info on the site
to get started. I have OE and Mozilla Thunderbird on my computer, any advice
on which to use or perhaps some other one ?


Thunderbird works quite well, it's free, and is regularly updated.
I find OE next to useless.

In article ,
Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote:
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between 29/07 and 03/08. I have
complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere. Does any
on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

I'm with Pipex - part of the same group - and some time ago they blocked
newsgroup access at certain times of the day. Is/was yours blocked all day?
Pipex has been back to normal for some time - after I sent them a
threatening letter. ;-)

--
*White with a hint of M42*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Use an alternative one not connected to any ISP.

This one (albasani.net) only does a limited subset of text only, but its
more reliable than my ISP's was and is free.

When Pipex were blocking Giganews access some months ago, it also blocked
access to any of the other news suppliers I tried.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Donwill wrote:
"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don

Many thanks to you all, I have now paid my 10 Euros to Netnews, all I have
to do now is to set it up but there seems to be plenty of info on the site
to get started. I have OE and Mozilla Thunderbird on my computer, any advice
on which to use or perhaps some other one ?

Thunderbird.

There are some tips on setup and getting the most from it for news
access he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ps#Thunderbird


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:37:36 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
"dennis@home" gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Your news reader is no longer supported, try a new one like window live
mail from get.live.com as its the M$ replacement for OE.

Or you could try an actual news client, instead of a fairly crap mail
client that just happens to also do news (badly).

I have tried a few like xnews, they are all pretty cr@p.

40tude seems the easiest to use. I've tried about a dozen (including those
built in to other apps) and ditched them.

http://www.40tude.com/dialog/ has v2.0.15.1 but the latest is v2.0.15.84 -
but I can't remember where I got it from (it was a link on
news.software.readers).
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:50:39 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Donwill popple @diddle .dot wrote:
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between 29/07 and 03/08. I have
complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere. Does any
on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

I'm with Pipex - part of the same group - and some time ago they blocked
newsgroup access at certain times of the day. Is/was yours blocked all day?
Pipex has been back to normal for some time - after I sent them a
threatening letter. ;-)

It was the same with Homecall, now Tiscali, so I tried Albasani then went
to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that doesn't
get blocked. The server is reader443.eternal-september.org - the site is in
that.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's
most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been
able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

So I was not the only one to go down from the 29th to the 3rd.
Also went down for nearly a week about 3 weeks ago.
I too am getting a browned off with tiscali.

Don

"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a
blank period during which I cannot post a message or download messages,
it's most inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a
thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't
been able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

Don
Yes, I'm with Tiscali and had exactly the same problem, last time it was off
for even longer, otherwise quite happy with Tiscali.

Donwill used his keyboard to write :
Every now and again the NGS with my ISP (tiscali) seems to go through a blank
period during which I cannot post a message or download messages, it's most
inconvenient when you are in the middle of contributing to a thread.

For example there is a big gap in the uk.d-i-y downloads when I haven't been
able to download anything between
29/07 and 03/08.
I have complained to Tiscali but they say that it's my fault, but I don't
think it is and I've threatened to take my business elsewhere.
Does any on else have problems of this nature and which ISPs are the most
reliable in regard to Newsgroup servers?

I'm on Tiscali....

I can confirm that the Tiscali NG server (or the port) was unusable
round about that date. In the past there have been problems with the
port being blocked which stops you even accessing none Tiscali servers.

My work around is to use a newserver which can be accessed on other
than the default port and use a newsgroup reader which supports you
doing this.

I use Mesnews, which is free and have it connect to
news.eternal-september.org or as it used to be known - motzarella.org
on port 563, which is a free newserver.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
[snip]
to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that doesn't
get blocked. The server is reader443.eternal-september.org - the site is
in
that.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Roger R

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:46:37 +0100, Roger R wrote:

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
[snip]
to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that doesn't
get blocked. The server is reader443.eternal-september.org - the site is
in
that.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Roger R

er, pass. There was a list on the site when the change was made and Reader
seemed to be the logical one and was the same as I was using. It's he

http://www.eternal-september.org/

half way down on the rigght.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:46:37 +0100, Roger R wrote:

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
[snip]
to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that
doesn't
get blocked. The server is reader443.eternal-september.org - the site is
in
that.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Roger R

er, pass. There was a list on the site when the change was made and Reader
seemed to be the logical one and was the same as I was using. It's he

http://www.eternal-september.org/

half way down on the rigght.

Thanks for the link.
On the technical page I found the others listed:
http://www.eternal-september.org/ind...wpage=techinfo

Possibly the alternatives are useful in case of difficulty.
As there is no specific guidance, looks like take your pick.

Roger R

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Aug 4, 10:15 am, Huge wrote:
On 2009-08-04, Adrian C wrote:

Tiscali WAS a bottom feeder operation purely collecting subscriptions
and broken bits of infrastructure and pretending to be competant. It's
your descision whether to suffer on, and hope that the new owners
Carphone Warehouse can throw more monkeys at it -

Don't hold your breath; CW are even bigger scum than Tiscali.

Maybe, but there's little to fault their broadband and phone service.

MBQ

I've never been able to get the Talktalk News Server to work despite
emailing and telephoning them. They don't maintain it and just say it's my
fault. I gave up long ago and use eternal-september (and its predecessor)
Free and very reliable. The Talktalk phone & broadband service are good
value, but their customer service is still abysmal when it all goes wrong.

John

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:46:37 +0100, Roger R wrote:

to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that
doesn't get blocked.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Port 563 is designated as NNTPS ("secure" Network News Transport
Protocol).

Port 443 is desiganted as HTTPS ("secure" Hyper Text Transport
Protocol).

443 is not likely to be blocked otherwise people wouldn't be able to
do their online shopping or home banking... 563 could be.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:58:57 +0100, Roger R wrote:

On the technical page I found the others listed:
http://www.eternal-september.org/ind...wpage=techinfo

Possibly the alternatives are useful in case of difficulty.
As there is no specific guidance, looks like take your pick.

Well, that was the problem! 'Reader' was the only guide, even if not
technically correct - any clue will do!
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:30:33 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:46:37 +0100, Roger R wrote:

to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that
doesn't get blocked.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Port 563 is designated as NNTPS ("secure" Network News Transport
Protocol).

Port 443 is desiganted as HTTPS ("secure" Hyper Text Transport
Protocol).

443 is not likely to be blocked otherwise people wouldn't be able to
do their online shopping or home banking... 563 could be.

Ah, I vaguely remember seeing HTTPS somewhere and deciding against it -
might be part of the reason for still using 443.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

"PeterC" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:30:33 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:46:37 +0100, Roger R wrote:

to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that
doesn't get blocked.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Port 563 is designated as NNTPS ("secure" Network News Transport
Protocol).

Port 443 is desiganted as HTTPS ("secure" Hyper Text Transport
Protocol).

443 is not likely to be blocked otherwise people wouldn't be able to
do their online shopping or home banking... 563 could be.

Ah, I vaguely remember seeing HTTPS somewhere and deciding against it -
might be part of the reason for still using 443.

Don't you mean the opposite - If you decided against HTTPS then you don't
want 443!

For news you shouldn't you be using 563?
Or have i got the wrong end of the stick about this?

Roger R

On 5 aug, 12:58, "Roger R" wrote:
"PeterC" wrote in message

.. .





On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:30:33 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:46:37 +0100, Roger R wrote:

to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that
doesn't get blocked.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Port 563 is designated as NNTPS ("secure" Network News Transport
Protocol).

Port 443 is desiganted as HTTPS ("secure" Hyper Text Transport
Protocol).

443 is not likely to be blocked otherwise people wouldn't be able to
do their online shopping or home banking... 563 could be.

Ah, I vaguely remember seeing HTTPS somewhere and deciding against it -
might be part of the reason for still using 443.

Don't you mean the opposite - If you decided against HTTPS then you don't
want 443!

For news you shouldn't you be using 563?
Or have i got the wrong end of the stick about this?

Roger R- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

A month or so ago, there was a similar thread to this by our brothers
and sisters on uk.rec.gardening.
Also there I asked this question:
why is GoogleGroups so "frowned upon" ?
Is it just big business / big brother prejudice (like anti Micosoft
flames) or are there genuine reasons?
I just like the simple interface, the bundling of a newsreader with
Dejanews achive facilities and that there is no (apparent) downloads
that have to be cleaned up. I agree thread structure is less easy to
follow but I can live with that.
(Reasoned answers only ! ! )
Rob

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:58:39 +0100, Roger R wrote:

"PeterC" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:30:33 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:46:37 +0100, Roger R wrote:

to Motzarella, now Eternal September as it uses Port 443 and that
doesn't get blocked.

What's the difference to news.eternal-september.org on port 563 ?

Port 563 is designated as NNTPS ("secure" Network News Transport
Protocol).

Port 443 is desiganted as HTTPS ("secure" Hyper Text Transport
Protocol).

443 is not likely to be blocked otherwise people wouldn't be able to
do their online shopping or home banking... 563 could be.

Ah, I vaguely remember seeing HTTPS somewhere and deciding against it -
might be part of the reason for still using 443.

Don't you mean the opposite - If you decided against HTTPS then you don't
want 443!

For news you shouldn't you be using 563?
Or have i got the wrong end of the stick about this?

Roger R

Oh, good point. ISTR that when I first applied, 443 was the port specified
for the connection, so I stuck with it. The servers and ports a

Client Settings
Server name: news.eternal-september.org
Port : 119 (NNTP)
Port : 563 (encrypted connection NNTPS)

Servername: reader80.eternal-september.org
Port : 80

Servername: reader443.eternal-september.org
Port : 443 (encrypted connection NNTPS)

so 563 is the secure news server.

Semms to me that if 443 is unlikely to be blocked it's a good one to use;
80 is the other possibility but does it get blocked?

I was rather ubcertain at the time, especially as the e-mail from Motz
looked like spam/malware as some numpty had included loadsa users in it and
the useful bit was at the bottom.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

In uk.d-i-y, Topaz wrote:
why is GoogleGroups so "frowned upon" ?
Is it just big business / big brother prejudice (like anti Micosoft
flames) or are there genuine reasons?
I just like the simple interface, the bundling of a newsreader with
Dejanews achive facilities and that there is no (apparent) downloads
that have to be cleaned up. I agree thread structure is less easy to
follow but I can live with that.
(Reasoned answers only ! ! )

Mostly Google Groups seems to be frowned upon because it's widely used
by spammers. Therefore, in other groups that I inhabit, people often set
their kill rules (which you don't have in GG :-[ ) to hide postings
originating from Google Groups. This means that if you do use GG for
legitimate postings, many people won't see what you write.

Also Google Groups users somehow seem to manage to quote other postings
without the proper "" quoting characters. And they often seem to manage
to get "-- Hide quoted text --" and "-- Show quoted text --" in there as
well. These problems are presumably due to defects in the GG software.

And GG users often don't know what a newsgroup is and how to behave in
one. Some non-GG users also suffer from that problem, but IME the
probability is much higher for a GG user.

Other than that, I've no idea.

--
Mike Barnes

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:50:53 UTC, Topaz wrote:

just like the simple interface, the bundling of a newsreader with
Dejanews achive facilities and that there is no (apparent) downloads
that have to be cleaned up. I agree thread structure is less easy to
follow but I can live with that.

Any decent newsreader will clean up for you, keeping local copies for
whichever period you like before purging them. Not bothered about thread
structure, but killfiling, ignoring a whole thread forever, etc. is much
easier with a specialised program (i.e. a newsreader).

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:12:14 +0100, Mike Barnes wrote:

Mostly Google Groups seems to be frowned upon because it's widely used
by spammers.

And there is no spam filtering on GG, so a user of that system sees
all the spam. Being on NIN I very rarely see any spam at all.

Also Google Groups users somehow seem to manage to quote other postings
without the proper "" quoting characters. And they often seem to manage
to get "-- Hide quoted text --" and "-- Show quoted text --" in there as
well. These problems are presumably due to defects in the GG software.

And the GG software or the way some users use it break threads.

And GG users often don't know what a newsgroup is and how to behave in
one. Some non-GG users also suffer from that problem, but IME the
probability is much higher for a GG user.

That as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:11:45 +0100, PeterC wrote:

Semms to me that if 443 is unlikely to be blocked it's a good one to
use; 80 is the other possibility but does it get blocked?

Well if "they" start to notice NNTPS traffic on 443 rather than HHTPS
(if they can mind) "they" might start to traffic shape there.
Personally I'd use 119 unless that was being "got at" then 563.
Keeping 80 and 443 in reserve. I can't see the point in a "secure"
link for NNTP in public newsgroups, what you send or receive is going
to be in plain text on many servers all over the world. I guess the
paranoid might be worried about their login details being stolen but
I can't see those being of great value.

Blocking 80 or 443 would not be popular. 99.99% of "internet" users
would be locked out. 80 is the default for World Wide Web access and
443 the "secure" version of the same.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:14:16 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:11:45 +0100, PeterC wrote:

Semms to me that if 443 is unlikely to be blocked it's a good one to
use; 80 is the other possibility but does it get blocked?

Well if "they" start to notice NNTPS traffic on 443 rather than HHTPS
(if they can mind) "they" might start to traffic shape there.
Personally I'd use 119 unless that was being "got at" then 563.
Keeping 80 and 443 in reserve. I can't see the point in a "secure"
link for NNTP in public newsgroups, what you send or receive is going
to be in plain text on many servers all over the world. I guess the
paranoid might be worried about their login details being stolen but
I can't see those being of great value.

119 is the one that Tiscali blocks in the evenings, so that's no good.
Neither Albasani nor Motz would work, so it wasn't just the server.
As I said, when I first went to Motz (because Albasani on 119 was blocked)
it had to be 443, so I stuck with it when changing to EternalSeptember.

Blocking 80 or 443 would not be popular. 99.99% of "internet" users
would be locked out. 80 is the default for World Wide Web access and
443 the "secure" version of the same.

Just trying 80 and it's OK; I'll give 563 a go. I don't see the point of
the secure server, but that's what was specified.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Mike Barnes wrote:


And GG users often don't know what a newsgroup is and how to behave in
one. Some non-GG users also suffer from that problem, but IME the
probability is much higher for a GG user.

There are shades of the original problem that AOL created when they
unleashed their walled garden audience on usenet - at the time without
any real explanation as to what it was and how to use it.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Topaz wrote:

A month or so ago, there was a similar thread to this by our brothers
and sisters on uk.rec.gardening.
Also there I asked this question:
why is GoogleGroups so "frowned upon" ?
Is it just big business / big brother prejudice (like anti Micosoft
flames) or are there genuine reasons?

Some may object for "big business" reasons, however for me there are a
number of technical points that make it a non ideal way of gaining
usenet access. These operate on two levels really - those that make
usenet less powerful for the user, and those that hinder / irritate
other usenet users.

Over the years (and note that this is a moving target as the google
software evolves) they have managed to break usenet functionality in a
multitude of ways - especially with threading, and quoting. This has
often resulted in message threads being broken up by any gg posts etc.
Quoting has been haphazard - in some cases encouraging top posting etc.
The other oft cited problem is one of gg being a vector for spammers.

The ways in which it makes life harder for the user, are varied - many
simply stem from the fact that a web based interface is so much slower
to use. The lack of flexibility in threading, the non availability of
kill files, and user defined filters etc. It means it is much harder to
say to it say: ok show me all the threads in this group to which I have
contributed, and have received any new contributions by others since I
last looked. Just the fact that it does not remember which messages are
"read" my me since my last visit makes it vastly harder to keep track of.

I just like the simple interface, the bundling of a newsreader with
Dejanews achive facilities and that there is no (apparent) downloads
that have to be cleaned up. I agree thread structure is less easy to
follow but I can live with that.

The searching and archiving are good - and unlike a local newsfeed at
least, don't expire so soon (or hopefully ever). The user profiling
tools can also be handy. GG Does many things very well, but conventional
news feeds / readers do some things better.

--
Cheers,

John.

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On 6 aug, 01:05, John Rumm wrote:
Topaz wrote:
A month or so ago, there was a similar thread to this by our brothers
and sisters on uk.rec.gardening.
Also there I asked this question:
* *why is GoogleGroups so "frowned upon" ?
Is it just big business / big brother prejudice (like anti Micosoft
flames) or are there genuine reasons?

Some may object for "big business" reasons, however for me there are a
number of technical points that make it a non ideal way of gaining
usenet access. These operate on two levels really - those that make
usenet less powerful for the user, and those that hinder / irritate
other usenet users.

Over the years (and note that this is a moving target as the google
software evolves) they have managed to break usenet functionality in a
multitude of ways - especially with threading, and quoting. This has
often resulted in message threads being broken up by any gg posts etc.
Quoting has been haphazard - in some cases encouraging top posting etc.
The other oft cited problem is one of gg being a vector for spammers.

The ways in which it makes life harder for the user, are varied - many
simply stem from the fact that a web based interface is so much slower
to use. The lack of flexibility in threading, the non availability of
kill files, and user defined filters etc. It means it is much harder to
say to it say: ok show me all the threads in this group to which I have
contributed, and have received any new contributions by others since I
last looked. *Just the fact that it does not remember which messages are
"read" my me since my last visit makes it vastly harder to keep track of.

I just like the simple interface, the bundling of a newsreader with
Dejanews achive facilities and that there is no (apparent) downloads
that have to be cleaned up. *I agree thread structure is less easy to
follow but I can live with that.

The searching and archiving are good - and unlike a local newsfeed at
least, don't expire so soon (or hopefully ever). The user profiling
tools can also be handy. GG Does many things very well, but conventional
news feeds / readers do some things better.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|
\================================================= ================/

Thanks to those of you who gave full and reasoned answers.
Years ago I started newsreading with OE but switched to GG when my ISP
became hopeless with the feeds (as this thread illustrates).
I think I will try and go back to a good classical newsreader, to see
how I like it.
The big difference seems to me is the accessible posts being available
in entirety on the web versus just a minute subset downloaded on your
own PC.
How, for example, do you answer the question "I'm sure there was a
thread about six months ago about Whitworth bolts?" without leaving
your non-GG newsreader ?
Rob (or was it Topaz this time - another GG quirk)

John Miller wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Aug 4, 10:15 am, Huge wrote:
On 2009-08-04, Adrian C wrote:

Tiscali WAS a bottom feeder operation purely collecting subscriptions
and broken bits of infrastructure and pretending to be competant. It's
your descision whether to suffer on, and hope that the new owners
Carphone Warehouse can throw more monkeys at it -
Don't hold your breath; CW are even bigger scum than Tiscali.

Maybe, but there's little to fault their broadband and phone service.

MBQ

I've never been able to get the Talktalk News Server to work despite
emailing and telephoning them. They don't maintain it and just say it's my
fault. I gave up long ago and use eternal-september (and its predecessor)
Free and very reliable. The Talktalk phone & broadband service are good
value, but their customer service is still abysmal when it all goes wrong.

My experience of TalkTalk broadband is that it will provide a
rudimentary service sometimes. If it works ok first time, then you
should be ok. If you have difficulties however you are quite possibly
screwed!

My SiL went with them in the early days, against advice, with the oft
repeated argument "but they are free!". Anyway, by the time she had
spent £700+ on their premium rate tech support line (mostly waiting two
hours at a time in a queue before speaking to anyone), attempting to get
them to raise a fault with BT to fix an obvious line fault[1], talking
to "tech" support people who were completely technically clueless, she
was getting a bit annoyed when anyone (me mostly!) told her "but they
are free!"

Eventually she managed to get freed from her contract by writing to the
MD and got some of the support phone charges refunded. Got a MAC code
out of them, ported her to plusnet, as expected the line was still
broken, raised a plusnet support request, and they had BT fix it in a
couple of days.

(experience with a handful of other clients etc who have used them seems
to be on par with the general assessment)

[1] With a router plugged into the internal master socket connection and
no other equipment or extensions etc, it still failed to get DSL sync,
and swapping out the router etc made no difference, it was pretty
obvious that it was a line problem. However she could never get past the
driods with the Q&A lists that would have her recheck TCP/IP settings,
or re-ininstall her OS, or more often than not say "oh we don't support
Macs", or "routers" and put the phone down on her.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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