We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was built in
1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically looks to be in
good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all brittle anywhere that I
can see.

The kitchen was refurbished 2 years ago so all circuits in there (1 RCD
protected ring main, 1 non-RCD protected radial for fridge and freezer, 1
cooker circuit and the lights) are all new and fed from a new 12-way
consumer unit that we had installed with the idea of carrying on and
rewiring the whole house.

The rationale for doing this was that we are now 55 years old and the wiring
is 44 years old. We could afford to do it now [1] even though it doesn't
really seem to *need* to be done and so we would rather get it done and
dusted rather than wait another 20 years when it may well *need* to be done,
but we'll be mid-seventies and neither able to afford it, nor put up with
all the mess at that age.

[1] Unfortunately, since the kitchen was refurbed and we first thought about
the whole-house rewire, I've been retired from work on ill-health grounds
and where I used to have a take-home pay of about £20k/year, I'm now on an
occupational pension of just under £6k/year so we're now beginning to wonder
about the wisdom of getting the house rewired and spending money when it
perhaps isn't strictly necessary.

So, what is the expected life-span of the cabling in here? Say we live until
we're 80, the cables will then be 69 - is that feasible? Do we really need
to rewire now?

The only drawback I can really come up with is that at the moment the wiring
is not split into up/downstairs - it's a whole-house ring main and
whole-house lights (apart from the kitchen of course), oh, and we don't have
enough sockets where we want them so we use a couple of 4-way trailing
extension leads where necessary, ie, TV, Sky+ box, AV receiver/amp and CD
player in one alcove (plugged into a double socket) and my computer over in
the dining room uses anoither 4-way lead.

There's only the two of us, we don't have any high-load items (other than
kitchen stuff on new circuits anyway), and really don't see us ever
overloading any circuit with anything.

What's your views folks?

TIA,

Dave

Dave used his keyboard to write :
We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was built in
1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically looks to be in
good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all brittle anywhere that I can
see.

Unless overloaded, or damaged, or subjected to excess heat, it should
not deteriorate.

My greatest concern would be the earthing circuits, particularly they
were not always certain to be installed on the lighting circuits.
Earthing and bonding was also generally not up to modern standards, but
at least some of this should have been addressed when your kitchen was
done.

Prior to Part P, I would have suggested you could have sorted out the
sockets yourself - perhaps split the upstairs circuit from the
downstairs. Splitting the upstairs lighting from the downstairs would
likely be even easier than splitting up the sockets.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave used his keyboard to write :
We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.

Unless overloaded, or damaged, or subjected to excess heat, it should
not deteriorate.

My greatest concern would be the earthing circuits, particularly they
were not always certain to be installed on the lighting circuits.
Earthing and bonding was also generally not up to modern standards,
but at least some of this should have been addressed when your
kitchen was done.

Prior to Part P, I would have suggested you could have sorted out the
sockets yourself - perhaps split the upstairs circuit from the
downstairs. Splitting the upstairs lighting from the downstairs would
likely be even easier than splitting up the sockets.

Thanks to both of you, Owain and Harry. You've given us plenty of food for
thought there and I think that we'll probably do some of the work you
suggest but not bother with the full rewire.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave used his keyboard to write :
We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.
Unless overloaded, or damaged, or subjected to excess heat, it should
not deteriorate.

My greatest concern would be the earthing circuits, particularly they
were not always certain to be installed on the lighting circuits.
Earthing and bonding was also generally not up to modern standards,
but at least some of this should have been addressed when your
kitchen was done.

Prior to Part P, I would have suggested you could have sorted out the
sockets yourself - perhaps split the upstairs circuit from the
downstairs. Splitting the upstairs lighting from the downstairs would
likely be even easier than splitting up the sockets.

Thanks to both of you, Owain and Harry. You've given us plenty of food for
thought there and I think that we'll probably do some of the work you
suggest but not bother with the full rewire.

Thanks,

Dave


Going forward try to ensure that all the power sockets are not on one
RCD and all the lighting sockets are not on one RCD. We intend to live
in our house until we are incapable of independent living and the
thought of losing all the power or all the lights in one go is not good.
(Been there before).

An RCD will trip on a neutral to earth fault and the MCBs only
disconnect the live. Therefore switching off the faulty circuit will not
allow the relevant RCD to be reset.

It is a bit expensive at present but circuits can be individually
protected by RCBOs which are combined MCBs and RCDs.

On Jul 28, 7:12*pm, "Dave" wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave used his keyboard to write :
We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.

Unless overloaded, or damaged, or subjected to excess heat, it should
not deteriorate.

My greatest concern would be the earthing circuits, particularly they
were not always certain to be installed on the lighting circuits.
Earthing and bonding was also generally not up to modern standards,
but at least some of this should have been addressed when your
kitchen was done.

Prior to Part P, I would have suggested you could have sorted out the
sockets yourself - perhaps split the upstairs circuit from the
downstairs. Splitting the upstairs lighting from the downstairs would
likely be even easier than splitting up the sockets.

Thanks to both of you, Owain and Harry. You've given us plenty of food for
thought there and I think that we'll probably do some of the work you
suggest but not bother with the full rewire.

Thanks,

Dave


PVC cable will safely outlast you. Bonding main services and adding
RCD protection would be nice, but if youre on 6k pa its not something
I'd spend your few sheckles on. There are other risks orders of
magnitude higher in any house that you could spend money on with far
more effect. 2 of the prime ones are stair falls and fires, both of
which would genuinely benefit from above average protection. Smoke
detectors are so cheap you can put one in almost every room and much
reduce your risk there. Stairs: ensure theyre level and even, have 2
handrails, a nonslip surface and rounded nosings.


NT

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Jul 28, 7:12 pm, "Dave" wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave used his keyboard to write :
We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.

Unless overloaded, or damaged, or subjected to excess heat, it should
not deteriorate.

My greatest concern would be the earthing circuits, particularly they
were not always certain to be installed on the lighting circuits.
Earthing and bonding was also generally not up to modern standards,
but at least some of this should have been addressed when your
kitchen was done.

Prior to Part P, I would have suggested you could have sorted out the
sockets yourself - perhaps split the upstairs circuit from the
downstairs. Splitting the upstairs lighting from the downstairs would
likely be even easier than splitting up the sockets.

Thanks to both of you, Owain and Harry. You've given us plenty of food for
thought there and I think that we'll probably do some of the work you
suggest but not bother with the full rewire.

Thanks,

Dave


PVC cable will safely outlast you. Bonding main services and adding
RCD protection would be nice, but if youre on 6k pa its not something
I'd spend your few sheckles on. There are other risks orders of
magnitude higher in any house that you could spend money on with far
more effect. 2 of the prime ones are stair falls and fires, both of
which would genuinely benefit from above average protection. Smoke
detectors are so cheap you can put one in almost every room and much
reduce your risk there. Stairs: ensure theyre level and even, have 2
handrails, a nonslip surface and rounded nosings.





Handrails? non-slip surfaces? Power point for a Stenna Stair lift?
I'm the same age as the OP (55) but after reading this thread I'm
suddenly feeling considerably older.




--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:40:44 +0100, "Graham." had
this to say:

Handrails? non-slip surfaces? Power point for a Stenna Stair lift?
I'm the same age as the OP (55) but after reading this thread I'm
suddenly feeling considerably older.

Pah - youngsters, the lot of you :-)

More seriously, it would be interesting to have some sort of an idea
of the age profile of d-i-y types. The 'general public' consensus
seems to be that most are oldish, usually retired types, trying to
save a few bob by doing it themselves. Sadly there don't seem to be
all that many young d-i-y people, probably because schools rarely
teach such subjects as metalwork, woodwork and so on.

--
Frank Erskine

Frank Erskine explained :
More seriously, it would be interesting to have some sort of an idea
of the age profile of d-i-y types. The 'general public' consensus
seems to be that most are oldish, usually retired types, trying to
save a few bob by doing it themselves. Sadly there don't seem to be
all that many young d-i-y people, probably because schools rarely
teach such subjects as metalwork, woodwork and so on.

Age has nothing to do with it - I have always done what ever was needed
to be done myself from being a yoof and mostly self taught.

It was always less about money, more about convenience. My car always
had a mechanic on board where ever I drove it. My home always had a
heating engineer on standy even on Christmas day.

I don't think it has anything to do with modern youth not being taught
such subjects, it is more to do with modern youth not even being taught
to think and explore.

Given a battery, a bit of wire and a bulb at five years of age I would
have been experimenting with them. Give a modern five year old the same
and you get blank looks - no interest.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Frank Erskine wrote:

More seriously, it would be interesting to have some sort of an idea
of the age profile of d-i-y types. The 'general public' consensus
seems to be that most are oldish, usually retired types, trying to
save a few bob by doing it themselves. Sadly there don't seem to be
all that many young d-i-y people, probably because schools rarely
teach such subjects as metalwork, woodwork and so on.

My son, aged 31, does d-i-y stuff because he doesn't believe that anyone
else will do as good a job as he can. Some of the first 'toys' we got
for him were child-sized _real_ tools and bits of interesting hardware.

On Jul 28, 11:53*pm, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
Frank Erskine explained :

More seriously, it would be interesting to have some sort of an idea
of the age profile of d-i-y types. The 'general public' consensus
seems to be that most are oldish, usually retired types, trying to
save a few bob by doing it themselves. Sadly there don't seem to be
all that many young d-i-y people, probably because schools rarely
teach such subjects as metalwork, woodwork and so on.

Age has nothing to do with it - I have always done what ever was needed
to be done myself from being a yoof and mostly self taught.

It was always less about money, more about convenience. My car always
had a mechanic on board where ever I drove it. My home always had a
heating engineer on standy even on Christmas day.

I'm not sure I really understand the choosing to be a victim mindset,
popular as it seems. If I can fix it myself right now, or in half an
hour, and get on with my life, why wouldnt I? Why would I choose to
try to find someone else to do a crap job, rip me off, and just
generally remain a needer of such services, unable to solve my own
problems? All I needed do to get many skills was keep my eyes open
when I saw someone else do it.


I don't think it has anything to do with modern youth not being taught
such subjects, it is more to do with modern youth not even being taught
to think and explore.

It might be even worse. I dont remember being taught to think or
explore as a kid, rather just managing to do it. Today kids are
positively prevented from any exploration, then folks wonder why
teenagers are so damn angry, because they feel hemmed in and prevented
at every turn - and are. Let them build rockets, and build confidence
and skills, and maybe less would utterly hate their lives. These
things are major components of happiness and successful living.


Given a battery, a bit of wire and a bulb at five years of age I would
have been experimenting with them. Give a modern five year old the same
and you get blank looks - no interest.

Yes. Though in fairness before computers became popular we had a whole
lot of time with no entertainment laid on. We could either explore or
expire of boredom. Kids now have enough computer based entertainment
that a bulb and battery must seem incredibly dull by comparison.


NT

On Jul 28, 9:40*pm, "Graham." wrote:
"NT" wrote in message
...

PVC cable will safely outlast you. Bonding main services and adding
RCD protection would be nice, but if youre on 6k pa its not something
I'd spend your few sheckles on. There are other risks orders of
magnitude higher in any house that you could spend money on with far
more effect. 2 of the prime ones are stair falls and fires, both of
which would genuinely benefit from above average protection. Smoke
detectors are so cheap you can put one in almost every room and much
reduce your risk there. Stairs: ensure theyre level and even, have 2
handrails, a nonslip surface and rounded nosings.



Handrails? non-slip surfaces? Power point for a Stenna Stair lift?
I'm the same age as the OP (55) but after reading this thread I'm
suddenly feeling considerably older.

Stair safety isnt just for the old and infirm, it causes in the region
of 1000 injuries a year, including deaths and permanent disabilities.
The standard arrangement clearly can be better, to some extent.


NT

"NT" wrote in message
...

It might be even worse. I dont remember being taught to think or
explore as a kid, rather just managing to do it. Today kids are
positively prevented from any exploration, then folks wonder why
teenagers are so damn angry, because they feel hemmed in and prevented
at every turn - and are.

That's not new by any means. Chucking them into factories at age 14 was one
way of knackering them sufficiently that they didn't seem so bad, but it's a
feature of teenagers forever.

Dave wrote:

We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was built in
1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically looks to be in
good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all brittle anywhere that I
can see.

Chances are it will stay that way unless overloaded (i.e. heated).

The kitchen was refurbished 2 years ago so all circuits in there (1 RCD
protected ring main, 1 non-RCD protected radial for fridge and freezer, 1
cooker circuit and the lights) are all new and fed from a new 12-way
consumer unit that we had installed with the idea of carrying on and
rewiring the whole house.

The rationale for doing this was that we are now 55 years old and the wiring
is 44 years old. We could afford to do it now [1] even though it doesn't
really seem to *need* to be done and so we would rather get it done and
dusted rather than wait another 20 years when it may well *need* to be done,
but we'll be mid-seventies and neither able to afford it, nor put up with
all the mess at that age.

[1] Unfortunately, since the kitchen was refurbed and we first thought about
the whole-house rewire, I've been retired from work on ill-health grounds
and where I used to have a take-home pay of about £20k/year, I'm now on an
occupational pension of just under £6k/year so we're now beginning to wonder
about the wisdom of getting the house rewired and spending money when it
perhaps isn't strictly necessary.

So, what is the expected life-span of the cabling in here? Say we live until
we're 80, the cables will then be 69 - is that feasible? Do we really need
to rewire now?

The cables are probably not your problem. Unlike old rubber wiring, PVC
does not suffer in the same way with age. However there may be some
difficulties to deal with:

The PVC cable you have may have undersized earth wires by today's
standard. The only time this really has an effect is when used with
rewireable fuses in 30A ring circuits, since they don't react fast
enough protect single runs of cable (as feeding spurs) from damage in
the event of a fault. Moving circuits of this type to a modern CU will
mitigate this problem.

With age, accessories will wear and need replacement. A 50 year old
socket is likely to have dirty contacts and will have lost spring
tension in them. This can result in local heating and damage when
feeding big loads. Batten holders can get brittle and the contacts wear
etc. So even if a full rewire is not needed, replacement of accessories
at some point will be. Given the age of the install I could see a good
case for doing that now, and perhaps adding more sockets where you need
them at the same time.

The other problem you may face is simply a lack of facilities where you
need them. Houses wired 40 years ago were designed with far fewer
sockets since there were not the modern proliferation of devices that
need power. This tends to lead to a over dependence on multiway
extension leads. While in many cases these are not heavily loaded, they
do add to trip risks, and are a good example of how unsuitable wiring
can make a house less safe and it be nothing to do with any direct
result of electricity.

The only drawback I can really come up with is that at the moment the wiring
is not split into up/downstairs - it's a whole-house ring main and

Regarding power circuits (i.e. sockets), the split of kitchen / rest of
house is actually quite a common arrangement and makes a good deal of
sense. (given the density of heavy current drawing appliances usually
found in kitchens). Having the lighting circuit split would be more
worthwhile so as to prevent loss of all lights on a circuit trip etc.

Also adding some emergency lighting can be very well worth doing
(depends a bit on how much free light you get from street lights etc).
But an emergency light by the consumer unit, and another over the
stairs, are sensible precautions and need not cost much.

whole-house lights (apart from the kitchen of course), oh, and we don't have
enough sockets where we want them so we use a couple of 4-way trailing
extension leads where necessary, ie, TV, Sky+ box, AV receiver/amp and CD
player in one alcove (plugged into a double socket) and my computer over in
the dining room uses anoither 4-way lead.

Leads tucked away behind computer desks and hifi stacks are generally
not much of a risk. The ones you need to look out for are ones that
drape across places you need to walk, or hot surfaces in the kitchen
etc. Lack of socket that force you to carry out tasks in places that you
would rather not do them are another consideration.

There's only the two of us, we don't have any high-load items (other than
kitchen stuff on new circuits anyway), and really don't see us ever
overloading any circuit with anything.

What's your views folks?

From you description it sounds as if a package of some sensible
upgrading is in order rather than a full rewire. This need not cost
much, and you could probably do all or at least most of the work
yourself. I would suggest things like:

1) Moving all exiting circuits over to the new CU and introducing RCD
protection for most sockets. (I am assuming that the main equipotential
bonding was verified / upgraded when the CU was installed. If that is
not the case, then doing that it is another cheap and easy fail safe
mechanism)

2) Splitting the lights circuit into two and adding some emergency lights

3) Adding some mains powered interlinked smoke alarms on their own circuit.

4) Replacing tired sockets and switches and lamp holders

5) Adding extra sockets where they are going to help. Think also in
terms of making them more accessible as well so that you can get to some
without bending so much.

6) Think about if extra lighting points are needed - and in some cases
more importantly would extra switch positions help. For example, many
houses let you switch the landing light from the hall or vice versa -
however being able to do both is far more useful and a good improvement
to safety on the stairs.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
Frank Erskine explained :
More seriously, it would be interesting to have some sort of an idea
of the age profile of d-i-y types. The 'general public' consensus
seems to be that most are oldish, usually retired types, trying to
save a few bob by doing it themselves. Sadly there don't seem to be
all that many young d-i-y people, probably because schools rarely
teach such subjects as metalwork, woodwork and so on.

Age has nothing to do with it - I have always done what ever was needed to
be done myself from being a yoof and mostly self taught.

It was always less about money, more about convenience. My car always had
a mechanic on board where ever I drove it. My home always had a heating
engineer on standy even on Christmas day.

I don't think it has anything to do with modern youth not being taught
such subjects,

My daughter went on a plumbing and bricklaying course when she was about 10.
They local college offered it to all the primary schools in the area.

She plumbed in a sink using solder fittings and built a small wall.

She still recalls some of it 13 years later.

Not every parent allowed their kids to go! 8-(

it is more to do with modern youth not even being taught to think and
explore.

I blame it on the "progressive" education experiments in the '60s.
Many pupils were taught using these odd methods and left school with very
poor education as a result.
I know people in the 40-55 years age range that still struggle with reading
who were taught under these experiments.

The result is their kids never learnt to read before they went to school and
those kids children were even worse off.

When my wife was governor at a primary school ten years ago some of the kids
arriving there had never held a pen in their life.

What chance do they have of ever being able to think and do stuff for
themselves?



The other problem kids have these days is that manufacturing is good.
You go into toysrus and there are huge numbers of toys, all with a serious
problem.. they are complete and do only one thing.
Its so bad that you get dolls houses where all the fittings/furniture are
glued in.
Just how is a child supposed to use their imagination when everything is
fixed in place?

The first toy I buy for toddlers is a bucket of stickle bricks, followed by
duplo and then meccano, whatever sex they are.
They get far more fun out of playing with them than the other junk sold.

John Rumm wrote:
Dave wrote:

We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.

Chances are it will stay that way unless overloaded (i.e. heated).

The kitchen was refurbished 2 years ago so all circuits in there (1
RCD protected ring main, 1 non-RCD protected radial for fridge and
freezer, 1 cooker circuit and the lights) are all new and fed from a
new 12-way consumer unit that we had installed with the idea of
carrying on and rewiring the whole house.

The rationale for doing this was that we are now 55 years old and
the wiring is 44 years old. We could afford to do it now [1] even
though it doesn't really seem to *need* to be done and so we would
rather get it done and dusted rather than wait another 20 years when
it may well *need* to be done, but we'll be mid-seventies and
neither able to afford it, nor put up with all the mess at that age.

[1] Unfortunately, since the kitchen was refurbed and we first
thought about the whole-house rewire, I've been retired from work on
ill-health grounds and where I used to have a take-home pay of about
£20k/year, I'm now on an occupational pension of just under £6k/year
so we're now beginning to wonder about the wisdom of getting the
house rewired and spending money when it perhaps isn't strictly
necessary. So, what is the expected life-span of the cabling in here? Say
we
live until we're 80, the cables will then be 69 - is that feasible?
Do we really need to rewire now?

The cables are probably not your problem. Unlike old rubber wiring,
PVC does not suffer in the same way with age. However there may be
some difficulties to deal with:

The PVC cable you have may have undersized earth wires by today's
standard. The only time this really has an effect is when used with
rewireable fuses in 30A ring circuits, since they don't react fast
enough protect single runs of cable (as feeding spurs) from damage in
the event of a fault. Moving circuits of this type to a modern CU will
mitigate this problem.

With age, accessories will wear and need replacement. A 50 year old
socket is likely to have dirty contacts and will have lost spring
tension in them. This can result in local heating and damage when
feeding big loads. Batten holders can get brittle and the contacts
wear etc. So even if a full rewire is not needed, replacement of
accessories at some point will be. Given the age of the install I could
see a good
case for doing that now, and perhaps adding more sockets where you
need them at the same time.

The other problem you may face is simply a lack of facilities where
you need them. Houses wired 40 years ago were designed with far fewer
sockets since there were not the modern proliferation of devices that
need power. This tends to lead to a over dependence on multiway
extension leads. While in many cases these are not heavily loaded,
they do add to trip risks, and are a good example of how unsuitable wiring
can make a house less safe and it be nothing to do with any direct
result of electricity.

The only drawback I can really come up with is that at the moment
the wiring is not split into up/downstairs - it's a whole-house ring
main and

Regarding power circuits (i.e. sockets), the split of kitchen / rest
of house is actually quite a common arrangement and makes a good deal
of sense. (given the density of heavy current drawing appliances
usually found in kitchens). Having the lighting circuit split would
be more worthwhile so as to prevent loss of all lights on a circuit
trip etc.
Also adding some emergency lighting can be very well worth doing
(depends a bit on how much free light you get from street lights etc).
But an emergency light by the consumer unit, and another over the
stairs, are sensible precautions and need not cost much.

whole-house lights (apart from the kitchen of course), oh, and we
don't have enough sockets where we want them so we use a couple of
4-way trailing extension leads where necessary, ie, TV, Sky+ box, AV
receiver/amp and CD player in one alcove (plugged into a double
socket) and my computer over in the dining room uses anoither 4-way
lead.

Leads tucked away behind computer desks and hifi stacks are generally
not much of a risk. The ones you need to look out for are ones that
drape across places you need to walk, or hot surfaces in the kitchen
etc. Lack of socket that force you to carry out tasks in places that
you would rather not do them are another consideration.

There's only the two of us, we don't have any high-load items (other
than kitchen stuff on new circuits anyway), and really don't see us
ever overloading any circuit with anything.

What's your views folks?

From you description it sounds as if a package of some sensible
upgrading is in order rather than a full rewire. This need not cost
much, and you could probably do all or at least most of the work
yourself. I would suggest things like:

1) Moving all exiting circuits over to the new CU and introducing RCD
protection for most sockets. (I am assuming that the main
equipotential bonding was verified / upgraded when the CU was
installed. If that is not the case, then doing that it is another cheap
and easy fail safe
mechanism)

2) Splitting the lights circuit into two and adding some emergency
lights
3) Adding some mains powered interlinked smoke alarms on their own
circuit.
4) Replacing tired sockets and switches and lamp holders

5) Adding extra sockets where they are going to help. Think also in
terms of making them more accessible as well so that you can get to
some without bending so much.

6) Think about if extra lighting points are needed - and in some cases
more importantly would extra switch positions help. For example, many
houses let you switch the landing light from the hall or vice versa -
however being able to do both is far more useful and a good
improvement to safety on the stairs.

Thanks John, lots of very good suggestions there and I think that that's
finally sealed the deal as they way to go forward.

Dave

Owain wrote:
On 28 July, 21:40, "Graham." wrote:
Handrails? non-slip surfaces? Power point for a Stenna Stair lift?

I'd like to see one of those, the new Irish Sea crossing for
wrinklies :-)

I'm the same age as the OP (55) but after reading this thread I'm
suddenly feeling considerably older.

Well, we were asked to look ahead. And there's a lot to be said for
growing old - 10% discount at B&Q and a free bus pass to bring it all
home with.


Thinking about this, there are other reasons to rewire a 1965 house than
simple safety.

You might simply want more sockets in more places..


and some computer, alarm., and TV cabling in.


Owain

In message , Harry
Bloomfield writes
Given a battery, a bit of wire and a bulb at five years of age I would
have been experimenting with them. Give a modern five year old the same
and you get blank looks - no interest.

Grandfather territory, I remember around that age being given a
tupperware box that contained half a dozen bulbs, bulb holders,
switches, lengths of wire and various other electrical bits n pieces
including a 4.5v battery with plastic thumb screw terminals on the top
(any ideas as to the type, square cornered box type, smaller than the
metal shell lantern battery and larger than the type with 'leaf spring'
contacts?).
--
Clint Sharp

Clint Sharp pretended :
Grandfather territory, I remember around that age being given a tupperware
box that contained half a dozen bulbs, bulb holders, switches, lengths of
wire and various other electrical bits n pieces including a 4.5v battery
with plastic thumb screw terminals on the top (any ideas as to the type,
square cornered box type, smaller than the metal shell lantern battery and
larger than the type with 'leaf spring' contacts?).

The battery would I think be intended for the valve heater circuit of a
portable radio - of the pre-transistor era.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Jul 29, 11:01*am, "Dave" wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Dave wrote:

We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.


With age, accessories will wear and need replacement. A 50 year old
socket is likely to have dirty contacts and will have lost spring
tension in them. This can result in local heating and damage when
feeding big loads. Batten holders can get brittle and the contacts
wear etc. So even if a full rewire is not needed, replacement of
accessories at some point will be. Given the age of the install I could
see a good
case for doing that now, and perhaps adding more sockets where you
need them at the same time.

IME with old installs you'll' probably find 2 or 3 accessories that
need replacing, generally the rest are fine. Look for switches that
sit half way, when they should be physically unable to, and any socket
that gets hot under load needs replacing.

I cant see any need for a partial rewire tbh. A new CU would give rcd
protection, which lots of houses dont have, and address the earth
conductor size. But on 6k pa?


NT

NT wrote:
On Jul 29, 11:01 am, "Dave" wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Dave wrote:

We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.


With age, accessories will wear and need replacement. A 50 year old
socket is likely to have dirty contacts and will have lost spring
tension in them. This can result in local heating and damage when
feeding big loads. Batten holders can get brittle and the contacts
wear etc. So even if a full rewire is not needed, replacement of
accessories at some point will be. Given the age of the install I could
see a good
case for doing that now, and perhaps adding more sockets where you
need them at the same time.

IME with old installs you'll' probably find 2 or 3 accessories that
need replacing, generally the rest are fine. Look for switches that
sit half way, when they should be physically unable to, and any socket
that gets hot under load needs replacing.

I cant see any need for a partial rewire tbh. A new CU would give rcd
protection, which lots of houses dont have, and address the earth
conductor size. But on 6k pa?

He's already got the new CU - just not got all the circuits on it yet IIUC.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Jul 31, 11:57*pm, John Rumm wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jul 29, 11:01 am, "Dave" wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Dave wrote:

We live in a 3-bed semi-detached dormer (chalet) bungalow that was
built in 1965. The wiring is grey, flat twin & earth and physically
looks to be in good condition, ie, still flexible and not at all
brittle anywhere that I can see.

With age, accessories will wear and need replacement. A 50 year old
socket is likely to have dirty contacts and will have lost spring
tension in them. This can result in local heating and damage when
feeding big loads. Batten holders can get brittle and the contacts
wear etc. So even if a full rewire is not needed, replacement of
accessories at some point will be. Given the age of the install I could
see a good
case for doing that now, and perhaps adding more sockets where you
need them at the same time.

IME with old installs you'll' probably find 2 or 3 accessories that
need replacing, generally the rest are fine. Look for switches that
sit half way, when they should be physically unable to, and any socket
that gets hot under load needs replacing.

I cant see any need for a partial rewire tbh. A new CU would give rcd
protection, which lots of houses dont have, and address the earth
conductor size. But on 6k pa?

He's already got the new CU - just not got all the circuits on it yet IIUC.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|
\================================================= ================/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just keep rewiring a section at a time observing good wiring practices
etc. And in a couple of years it'll all be done. Wiring isn't that
difficult a job and it is quite fun.

BTW what's all this about being mid 70s?????

Am approaching 76 and currently painting outside of my single storey
72 by 37 foot house. Presently got the edge of the roof and two foot
soffit overhang on it's third and finish coat of paint using a home
made ladder modified for suitable height for this job. Don't expect
any trouble with re-staining the rest of the outside walls which are
clapboard. IIRC this is fourth time have painted in some 39 years? But
am sort of conscious this will likely be last time I will paint this
house myself? Take my time because after a few hours up and down
ladders the old knees do get a bit sore; wearing boots to support
ankles is a good tip.
..
Then on to the windows, which have done an excellent job since we (two
carpenters and myself) built this house in 1970 (When I was 36). The
windows will involve removing some 50 pieces/metal-frames each with
glass, averaging about 30 inches high by 24 to 30 inches wide. And
four sections of sliding glass doors to the deck. Cleaning and
painting the window boxes, cleaning every window glass and
reinstalling them.

Still pleased with many/most of the decisions made when we built this,
our second house. Maintaining it ourselves. Low to the ground one can
reach just about everything outside from step ladder. Main floor is
level, with no steps, one set of stairs to full in ground basement.
Electric heating with individual room thermostats (less than $100
maintenance since built, no rain gutters (the 2 foot overhangs keep
water away).
Front door recessed out of wind. No windows in the garage, originally
a car-port, until we enclosed it into the garage and a storeroom for
small business, facing the prevailing westerly wind. But next year
will have to do some work on that most exposed west wall; since it was
built only as outer wall for the carport suspect we do not have any
insulation or any interior vapour barrier so may need to rebuild it a
portion of its 35 length, by some 10 foot high, at a time. After get
the sail boat adjacent to the wall restored and moved out of the way.

Planted lots of trees which even in winter without leaves provide some
wind shelter. Only had to shovel snow off the low and low sloping roof
twice in 39 years, it normally blows away! Windows not too large which
conserves heat loss. Might add a porch (outside in the recessed area,
sort of out of the wind); because the front door which opens into the
hallway, even with the original storm door outside it is still a bit
drafty. Need a little bit of work around the garage door and repaint
it again.

Having fun!

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Clint Sharp pretended :
Grandfather territory, I remember around that age being given a
tupperware box that contained half a dozen bulbs, bulb holders,
switches, lengths of wire and various other electrical bits n pieces
including a 4.5v battery with plastic thumb screw terminals on the
top (any ideas as to the type, square cornered box type, smaller than
the metal shell lantern battery and larger than the type with 'leaf
spring' contacts?).

The battery would I think be intended for the valve heater circuit of a
portable radio - of the pre-transistor era.

No. They are 1.5v and very large.

That is a lantern battery of some sort.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:32:31 -0700 (PDT), stan wrote:

BTW what's all this about being mid 70s?????

Am approaching 76 and currently painting outside of my single storey
72 by 37 foot house. Presently got the edge of the roof and two foot
soffit overhang on it's third and finish coat of paint using a home
made ladder modified for suitable height for this job. Don't expect
any trouble with re-staining the rest of the outside walls which are
clapboard. IIRC this is fourth time have painted in some 39 years? But
am sort of conscious this will likely be last time I will paint this
house myself? Take my time because after a few hours up and down
ladders the old knees do get a bit sore; wearing boots to support
ankles is a good tip.
.
Then on to the windows, which have done an excellent job since we (two
carpenters and myself) built this house in 1970 (When I was 36). The
windows will involve removing some 50 pieces/metal-frames each with
glass, averaging about 30 inches high by 24 to 30 inches wide. And
four sections of sliding glass doors to the deck. Cleaning and
painting the window boxes, cleaning every window glass and
reinstalling them.

Still pleased with many/most of the decisions made when we built this,
our second house. Maintaining it ourselves. Low to the ground one can
reach just about everything outside from step ladder. Main floor is
level, with no steps, one set of stairs to full in ground basement.
Electric heating with individual room thermostats (less than $100
maintenance since built, no rain gutters (the 2 foot overhangs keep
water away).
Front door recessed out of wind. No windows in the garage, originally
a car-port, until we enclosed it into the garage and a storeroom for
small business, facing the prevailing westerly wind. But next year
will have to do some work on that most exposed west wall; since it was
built only as outer wall for the carport suspect we do not have any
insulation or any interior vapour barrier so may need to rebuild it a
portion of its 35 length, by some 10 foot high, at a time. After get
the sail boat adjacent to the wall restored and moved out of the way.

Planted lots of trees which even in winter without leaves provide some
wind shelter. Only had to shovel snow off the low and low sloping roof
twice in 39 years, it normally blows away! Windows not too large which
conserves heat loss. Might add a porch (outside in the recessed area,
sort of out of the wind); because the front door which opens into the
hallway, even with the original storm door outside it is still a bit
drafty. Need a little bit of work around the garage door and repaint
it again.

Having fun!

Good for you Stan! Chap next door was up on the 2-storey roof, repairing
the flashing around the chimney stack and chacking other things, at the age
of 73.
I'm still wondering why I built a shed for £200 more than buying one, with
lots of treatment on it, all stainless steel fasteners, Onduline roof and
strong frame and cladding - it'll last at least 50 years with some
maintenance and I'm 62! Still, if I can be using it in 2060...
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Clint Sharp pretended :
Grandfather territory, I remember around that age being given a
tupperware box that contained half a dozen bulbs, bulb holders,
switches, lengths of wire and various other electrical bits n pieces
including a 4.5v battery with plastic thumb screw terminals on the
top (any ideas as to the type, square cornered box type, smaller than
the metal shell lantern battery and larger than the type with 'leaf
spring' contacts?).

The battery would I think be intended for the valve heater circuit of a
portable radio - of the pre-transistor era.

Those batteries were useful for doorbells, odd circuits etc because they
were easy to connect to wires. Back in the days when the bell and
battery did not live all together in a pretty plastic case.

In my youth I built a 2 valve radio with separate HT and LT batteries
but I cannot remember the voltage of the valve heaters or the battery used.
Some years later in the lab in the EMI apprentice training place I moved
on to building an FM tuner on a chassis made of bent tin plate.

Now I am feeling seriously old :-(

Invisible Man wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Clint Sharp pretended :
Grandfather territory, I remember around that age being given a
tupperware box that contained half a dozen bulbs, bulb holders,
switches, lengths of wire and various other electrical bits n pieces
including a 4.5v battery with plastic thumb screw terminals on the
top (any ideas as to the type, square cornered box type, smaller than
the metal shell lantern battery and larger than the type with 'leaf
spring' contacts?).

The battery would I think be intended for the valve heater circuit of
a portable radio - of the pre-transistor era.

Those batteries were useful for doorbells, odd circuits etc because they
were easy to connect to wires. Back in the days when the bell and
battery did not live all together in a pretty plastic case.

In my youth I built a 2 valve radio with separate HT and LT batteries
but I cannot remember the voltage of the valve heaters or the battery used.

typically heaters were all 1.5v. BIG collections of cells.

two pin polarised plug in the top.

HT was a variety..hearing aids with micro valves as low as 15v or 22.5v.
I've seen 45v HT batteries, but 90v was the usual value for the direct
heated normal sized valves.

Some years later in the lab in the EMI apprentice training place I moved
on to building an FM tuner on a chassis made of bent tin plate.

Now I am feeling seriously old :-(

Only built one valve thing..and that didn't work well, so I moved to
trannies as soon as they came out.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

...snip..

In my youth I built a 2 valve radio with separate HT and LT batteries
but I cannot remember the voltage of the valve heaters or the battery
used.

typically heaters were all 1.5v. BIG collections of cells.

two pin polarised plug in the top.
Yes I remember now

HT was a variety..hearing aids with micro valves as low as 15v or 22.5v.
I've seen 45v HT batteries, but 90v was the usual value for the direct
heated normal sized valves.
90v it was

Some years later in the lab in the EMI apprentice training place I
moved on to building an FM tuner on a chassis made of bent tin plate.

Now I am feeling seriously old :-(

Only built one valve thing..and that didn't work well, so I moved to
trannies as soon as they came out.

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:44:38 +0100, Invisible Man
wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Clint Sharp pretended :
Grandfather territory, I remember around that age being given a
tupperware box that contained half a dozen bulbs, bulb holders,
switches, lengths of wire and various other electrical bits n pieces
including a 4.5v battery with plastic thumb screw terminals on the
top (any ideas as to the type, square cornered box type, smaller than
the metal shell lantern battery and larger than the type with 'leaf
spring' contacts?).

The battery would I think be intended for the valve heater circuit of a
portable radio - of the pre-transistor era.

Those batteries were useful for doorbells, odd circuits etc because they
were easy to connect to wires. Back in the days when the bell and
battery did not live all together in a pretty plastic case.

Indeed. In the 50s and 60s I lived in houses where the bell battery
was conveniently (ha!) situated in the attic.

I remember bell batteries with brass screw terminals, which pre-dated
the plastic screw terminals mentioned above. I also had a grid bias
battery where the voltage could be varied between 1.5 and 9v.

John

On Sat, 1 Aug 2009 07:06:13 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:32:31 -0700 (PDT), stan wrote:

BTW what's all this about being mid 70s?????

Am approaching 76 and currently painting outside of my single storey
72 by 37 foot house. Presently got the edge of the roof and two foot
soffit overhang on it's third and finish coat of paint using a home
made ladder modified for suitable height for this job. Don't expect
any trouble with re-staining the rest of the outside walls which are
clapboard. IIRC this is fourth time have painted in some 39 years? But
am sort of conscious this will likely be last time I will paint this
house myself? Take my time because after a few hours up and down
ladders the old knees do get a bit sore; wearing boots to support
ankles is a good tip.
.
Then on to the windows, which have done an excellent job since we (two
carpenters and myself) built this house in 1970 (When I was 36). The
windows will involve removing some 50 pieces/metal-frames each with
glass, averaging about 30 inches high by 24 to 30 inches wide. And
four sections of sliding glass doors to the deck. Cleaning and
painting the window boxes, cleaning every window glass and
reinstalling them.

Still pleased with many/most of the decisions made when we built this,
our second house. Maintaining it ourselves. Low to the ground one can
reach just about everything outside from step ladder. Main floor is
level, with no steps, one set of stairs to full in ground basement.
Electric heating with individual room thermostats (less than $100
maintenance since built, no rain gutters (the 2 foot overhangs keep
water away).
Front door recessed out of wind. No windows in the garage, originally
a car-port, until we enclosed it into the garage and a storeroom for
small business, facing the prevailing westerly wind. But next year
will have to do some work on that most exposed west wall; since it was
built only as outer wall for the carport suspect we do not have any
insulation or any interior vapour barrier so may need to rebuild it a
portion of its 35 length, by some 10 foot high, at a time. After get
the sail boat adjacent to the wall restored and moved out of the way.

Planted lots of trees which even in winter without leaves provide some
wind shelter. Only had to shovel snow off the low and low sloping roof
twice in 39 years, it normally blows away! Windows not too large which
conserves heat loss. Might add a porch (outside in the recessed area,
sort of out of the wind); because the front door which opens into the
hallway, even with the original storm door outside it is still a bit
drafty. Need a little bit of work around the garage door and repaint
it again.

Having fun!

Good for you Stan! Chap next door was up on the 2-storey roof, repairing
the flashing around the chimney stack and chacking other things, at the age
of 73.
I'm still wondering why I built a shed for £200 more than buying one, with
lots of treatment on it, all stainless steel fasteners, Onduline roof and
strong frame and cladding - it'll last at least 50 years with some
maintenance and I'm 62! Still, if I can be using it in 2060...

My father-in-law was up on the roof adjusting the TV aerial at the age of
70 - three weeks after being diagnosed with stomach cancer and two weeks
before he died!

SteveW

In article ,
Steve Walker writes:

My father-in-law was up on the roof adjusting the TV aerial at the age of
70 - three weeks after being diagnosed with stomach cancer and two weeks
before he died!

At least he didn't do a Rod Hull...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 01 Aug 2009 18:34:01 GMT, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Steve Walker writes:

My father-in-law was up on the roof adjusting the TV aerial at the age of
70 - three weeks after being diagnosed with stomach cancer and two weeks
before he died!

At least he didn't do a Rod Hull...

I suppose that if you are going to go on the roof, doing it while you're
terminally ill is the best time! He didn't actually know that it was
terminal at that point though, he'd been offered treatment, but
deteriorated too much before they could start - the scans had reported a 1"
tumor, but it turned out to be 8-1/2"

SteveW