Thank you to everyone who contributed and to those who offered good wishes.
It also surprised me how many people I know who know someone on Warfarin.
For those who asked, this is the latest situation.

There was a strong consensus that Warfarin is a serious intrusion upon your
lifestyle. As my GP put it, it is OK if all you are doing is sitting around,
not doing much, and taking your Warfarin, but not if you want to lead any
sort of active life. He also said he would have concerns about my liver,
given my previous history, if I were put on Warfarin. That was this morning
and only served to confirm the impression I had been getting from all other
sources. He also reinforced my view that there were likely to be significant
advances in cardiac medicine in the next 10-20 years, while Warfarin has not
been improved upon in the past 50 years. So, the result is that the
artificial valve is not an option I am prepared to consider.

Now I am waiting for an appointment with the surgeon, to see whether he
would be prepared to consider me for the Ross procedure, in which one of my
heart valves is used to replace the damaged aortic valve and the other valve
has the tissue replacement. It has the advantages that the aortic valve,
which is the most highly stressed, is a living valve that ought not to
deteriorate, the replacement valve should last longer in the alternative
position and replacing it is an easier operation. The downside is that it
adds about an hour to the operation, which increases the morbidity risk, and
I am borderline for the age at which it is usually carried out. I hope to
find out whether that is down to the accountants at NICE, because there are
good clinical reasons not to, or whether the concern is about older patient
survival rate. At least I am fairly fit and have excellent lung function,
which should help with the last.

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an adjacent
private hospital, still on the NHS and with the same surgical team. That
should both free up ITU beds in the main hospital and avoid the possibility
of exposing recovering heart patients to the disease, which I had been
wondering about. They are currently looking at booking me in around mid to
late August, subject to what the surgeon says. I'll post an update when I
know that.

Thanks to all

Colin Bignell

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an adjacent
private hospital, still on the NHS and with the same surgical team. That
should both free up ITU beds in the main hospital and avoid the possibility
of exposing recovering heart patients to the disease, which I had been
wondering about. They are currently looking at booking me in around mid to
late August, subject to what the surgeon says. I'll post an update when I
know that.


Best wishes for an uneventful surgery, and a speedy recovery.

Sheila

S Viemeister wrote:
nightjar cpb@ wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent private hospital, still on the NHS and with the same
surgical team. That should both free up ITU beds in the main
hospital and avoid the possibility of exposing recovering heart
patients to the disease, which I had been wondering about. They are
currently looking at booking me in around mid to late August,
subject to what the surgeon says. I'll post an update when I know
that.
Best wishes for an uneventful surgery, and a speedy recovery.

And from me.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
S Viemeister wrote:
nightjar cpb@ wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent private hospital, still on the NHS and with the same
surgical team. That should both free up ITU beds in the main
hospital and avoid the possibility of exposing recovering heart
patients to the disease, which I had been wondering about. They are
currently looking at booking me in around mid to late August,
subject to what the surgeon says. I'll post an update when I know
that.
Best wishes for an uneventful surgery, and a speedy recovery.

And from me.

Yes, all the best with it. I had a CABG 4 years back and worried like hell
about what i'd find/see when I woke up. I have to tell you, they have it
sorted, nothing to worry about.

"brass monkey" wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
S Viemeister wrote:
nightjar cpb@ wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent private hospital, still on the NHS and with the same
surgical team. That should both free up ITU beds in the main
hospital and avoid the possibility of exposing recovering heart
patients to the disease, which I had been wondering about. They are
currently looking at booking me in around mid to late August,
subject to what the surgeon says. I'll post an update when I know
that.
Best wishes for an uneventful surgery, and a speedy recovery.

And from me.

Yes, all the best with it. I had a CABG 4 years back and worried like hell
about what i'd find/see when I woke up. I have to tell you, they have it
sorted, nothing to worry about.

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.

Colin Bignell

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 23 July, 20:18, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent
private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!


Ward? I'm expecting a private room.

Colin Bignell

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 23 July, 20:18, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent
private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!


Ward? I'm expecting a private room.

Colin Bignell

Colin,

Don't build your hopes up too high!

My daughter had an NHS operation that was performed in a private hospital -
and she had to share a room with another patient. Daughter did say though
that she was glad of this, as it eased the boredom.

BTW, both of the patients were bed-bound for a few days after their ops
their and tempers were a little fraught as both were smokers - and it was
rather funny to watch their 'sufferings' over those few days.

Hell, they didn't half moan about it - nag, nag, nag nearly all visiting
time. LOL

All the best for a speedy recovery Colin.

Cash

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:40:13 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an

adjacent private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!

I'd like to think that a private hospital taking on cardiac work also
has the backup of a resus/ITU just down the corridor. It has been
known for private patients being shipped to NHS ITUs when it all goes
pear shaped in the private theatre or afterwards.

Colin will not need those things of course but...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:40:13 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an

adjacent private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!

I'd like to think that a private hospital taking on cardiac work also
has the backup of a resus/ITU just down the corridor. It has been
known for private patients being shipped to NHS ITUs when it all goes
pear shaped in the private theatre or afterwards.

Colin will not need those things of course but...

The private hospital does seem to be well equipped; it has a laminar flow
operating theatre for example. After the operation I will be in a critical
care level 2 facility, which seems to cover everything short of complete
respiratory support or multiple organ failure. Fortunately, given the number
of tubes and wires I will be attached to, I probably won't recall much of
the first couple of days, when I am in there.

Colin Bignell

"Cash" wrote in message
...
"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 23 July, 20:18, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent
private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!


Ward? I'm expecting a private room.

Colin Bignell

Colin,

Don't build your hopes up too high!

My daughter had an NHS operation that was performed in a private
hospital - and she had to share a room with another patient. Daughter did
say though that she was glad of this, as it eased the boredom.

The hospital web site does promise single bed private rooms, but that may
only be for the private patients. I have been stockpiling books for months
now, so I'm not expecting boredom to be a problem. Experience suggests that
Owain is right about the nurses. I suspect the pretty ones look for jobs in
private hospitals, to catch themselves rich husbands. I had my gall bladder
out privately - the pain was too much to wait 14 months for the NHS. One of
the nurses became decidely less friendly when she discovered that one of my
female visitors was my long term partner.

BTW, both of the patients were bed-bound for a few days after their ops
their and tempers were a little fraught as both were smokers - and it was
rather funny to watch their 'sufferings' over those few days.

Hell, they didn't half moan about it - nag, nag, nag nearly all visiting
time. LOL

Fortunately, not a problem for me. When the nurse did my lung function test
she could tell I'd never smoked.


All the best for a speedy recovery Colin.

Thank you

Colin Bignell

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.

I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us soon.

Dave

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:38:55 +0100, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk wrote:


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ill.co.uk...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:40:13 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an

adjacent private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!

I'd like to think that a private hospital taking on cardiac work also
has the backup of a resus/ITU just down the corridor. It has been
known for private patients being shipped to NHS ITUs when it all goes
pear shaped in the private theatre or afterwards.

Colin will not need those things of course but...

The private hospital does seem to be well equipped; it has a laminar flow
operating theatre for example. After the operation I will be in a critical
care level 2 facility, which seems to cover everything short of complete
respiratory support or multiple organ failure. Fortunately, given the number
of tubes and wires I will be attached to, I probably won't recall much of
the first couple of days, when I am in there.

Hopefully you'll be among other cardiac patients who are also awaiting
similar procedures, rather than a general unit wherein you get, trust
me, some very ahem "interesting" and ummm "entertaining" room
mates - for some reason they mostly kick off at night.
The thing to look out for is when the nurse tells you to take a deep
breath as she removes the urinary catheter. Do take a deep breath, but
also find something to hold on to, tightly ;-

"nightjar.me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 23 July, 20:18, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent
private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!


Ward? I'm expecting a private room.

You will wake up in the nhs hospital next door if anything goes wrong
though. 8-)

I don't know what you are worrying about.. its not like they are doing an op
to remove an unknown lump from your thyroid gland like they did with me 20
years ago.

"We have done a needle biopsy and its clear but we had better take a look
anyway"

The worst part is the sheer boredom of being in hospital.

I went home early complete with the stitches around my throat and came back
to have the removed as I couldn't stand it any longer.
Colin Bignell

"nightjar.me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
news
The private hospital does seem to be well equipped; it has a laminar flow
operating theatre for example. After the operation I will be in a critical
care level 2 facility, which seems to cover everything short of complete
respiratory support or multiple organ failure. Fortunately, given the
number of tubes and wires I will be attached to, I probably won't recall
much of the first couple of days, when I am in there.

Sounds like my nearest NHS hospital except they have more than one.
I suppose you only need one in a private hospital as they only do planned
stuff.



Colin Bignell

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:12:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.

I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us soon.

Dave

Hmmm, our experience of MREH is not quite so good.

My wife has had a peripheral vision problem since March of last year and
was referred to MREH. This problem is stopping her driving (she
misinterprets speed and distance of objects approaching from the left) and
as she is a Community Psychiatric Nurse, not being able to drive means she
cannot work.

After being bounced from one department to another (five conmsultants so
far), with a six week wait for each, then six weeks to have tests
(frequently repeats of tets that the other consultants have already had
done), then another four weeks before she can see someone to get the
results, she is getting nowhere.

She recently saw a consultant who told her that "we need to get to the
bottom of this" and made an appointment to see her again three weeks later
- when she went in, he was not available and she saw a different
consultant, who said that he didn't know what the problem was, but could
cure her problems surgically, by permanently blinding her in the left eye!
He then wrote a letter to her GP saying that this was the solution he was
offering and other than that he was taking no further action!

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

SteveW

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:38:55 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

The private hospital does seem to be well equipped; it has a laminar
flow operating theatre for example.

That rings the "marketing puff" alarm bell in my mind. I'd rather
know that the autoclaves are properly maintained and used correctly
so that all the bits of steel they stick in me are clean and sterile
and that their procedures for rotating stocks of consumables are
robust so nothing is "out of date" and that the prodecures for
counting all the bits in and all the bits out are similary robust.

--
Cheers
Dave.

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

SteveW

cant you test this theory by wearing an eyepatch over one eye for a week?

Pirates are in fashion!

[g]

"Dave" wrote in message
...
nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my
partner is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me
regular reports on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be
encouraging her.

I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

When I were a lad, my dentist used to use general anaesthetic for almost
everything short of a minor filling. I have also been under a general for a
gall bladder removal, about 8 years ago. Rohipnol seems to have been the
drug of choice for most procdures since. It is weird to discover you have
had a long telephone conversation with someone and not be able to recall
even phoning.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last October I
was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina sorted.
They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later I was
wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have a full
before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had leaped
from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the sight in
my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my worry about not
coming round from going under. I even threatened the anethasist that I
would come back and haunt him if I died.

I think eye problems worry me a lot more than the heart operation. I won't
know if I die, but I would know if I went blind. I waited three months for
an eye clinic appointment and, when the consultant saw me, he said, come in
tomorrow at 9am. I'm operating on you then. When the NHS works that fast it
is worrying.. Fortunately, my retina was only torn and had not detached, so
it was a quick and simple repair job and I was out of hospital by 11am.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has moved
on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

This is what I'm gambling on with the valve choice.


Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us soon.

So am I., but I'm having a will drawn up, just in case.

Colin Bignell

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:38:55 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

The private hospital does seem to be well equipped; it has a laminar
flow operating theatre for example.

That rings the "marketing puff" alarm bell in my mind. I'd rather
know that the autoclaves are properly maintained and used correctly
so that all the bits of steel they stick in me are clean and sterile
and that their procedures for rotating stocks of consumables are
robust so nothing is "out of date" and that the prodecures for
counting all the bits in and all the bits out are similary robust.

I used to be in medical device manufacture and my check list is a lot longer
than that, but I doubt I get much choice in the matter and they will be
keeping me away from people with flu.

Colin Bignell

"Harry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:38:55 +0100, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk wrote:


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
hill.co.uk...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:40:13 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an

adjacent private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!

I'd like to think that a private hospital taking on cardiac work also
has the backup of a resus/ITU just down the corridor. It has been
known for private patients being shipped to NHS ITUs when it all goes
pear shaped in the private theatre or afterwards.

Colin will not need those things of course but...

The private hospital does seem to be well equipped; it has a laminar flow
operating theatre for example. After the operation I will be in a critical
care level 2 facility, which seems to cover everything short of complete
respiratory support or multiple organ failure. Fortunately, given the
number
of tubes and wires I will be attached to, I probably won't recall much of
the first couple of days, when I am in there.

Hopefully you'll be among other cardiac patients who are also awaiting
similar procedures, rather than a general unit wherein you get, trust
me, some very ahem "interesting" and ummm "entertaining" room
mates - for some reason they mostly kick off at night.

I've been in a few general wards, but I usually sleep through anything that
goes on and only find out about it next morning.

The thing to look out for is when the nurse tells you to take a deep
breath as she removes the urinary catheter. Do take a deep breath, but
also find something to hold on to, tightly ;-

I think they are supposed to deflate the balloon before pulling it out ::-0

Colin Bignell

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"nightjar.me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 23 July, 20:18, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
One advantage of swine flu; heart operations are being moved to an
adjacent
private hospital

Wehey! Prettier nurses, better food and cleaner wards!


Ward? I'm expecting a private room.

You will wake up in the nhs hospital next door if anything goes wrong
though. 8-)

I don't know what you are worrying about.. its not like they are doing an
op to remove an unknown lump from your thyroid gland like they did with me
20 years ago.

"We have done a needle biopsy and its clear but we had better take a look
anyway"

Nasty. I presume it worked out OK, given that you are still here 20 years
later.

The worst part is the sheer boredom of being in hospital.

I've been stockpiling books for months.

I went home early complete with the stitches around my throat and came
back to have the removed as I couldn't stand it any longer.

Colin Bignell

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:46:41 +0100, george (dicegeorge) wrote:


So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

SteveW

cant you test this theory by wearing an eyepatch over one eye for a week?

Pirates are in fashion!

[g]

She has done this and yes it works, but we feel it is somewhat drastic to
be permanently blinded in one eye when there is no diagnosis. Once there is
a diagnosis, there may or may not be other options. There have been
suggestions that it may actually be an ear problem, causing balance
problems and interfering with the signals from the eye, but this particular
consultant does not seem interested in finding out.

We are particularly reluctant to go the currently suggested surgical route,
as we know two people who being already blind in one eye, have suffered
accidental eye injuries, one of whom was lucky that he lost his blind eye,
the other is now totally blind (from the age of 23). My own father suffered
a detached retina and has lost part of his sight in one eye. Eyes are too
precious and vulnerable to lightly sacrifice the built in redundancy of
having two!

We are currently seeking a second opinion, specifically from the consultant
that wanted to investigate further.

SteveW

Steve Walker wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:12:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.
I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us soon.

Dave

Hmmm, our experience of MREH is not quite so good.

My wife has had a peripheral vision problem since March of last year and
was referred to MREH. This problem is stopping her driving (she
misinterprets speed and distance of objects approaching from the left) and
as she is a Community Psychiatric Nurse, not being able to drive means she
cannot work.

After being bounced from one department to another (five conmsultants so
far), with a six week wait for each, then six weeks to have tests
(frequently repeats of tets that the other consultants have already had
done), then another four weeks before she can see someone to get the
results, she is getting nowhere.

She recently saw a consultant who told her that "we need to get to the
bottom of this" and made an appointment to see her again three weeks later
- when she went in, he was not available and she saw a different
consultant, who said that he didn't know what the problem was, but could
cure her problems surgically, by permanently blinding her in the left eye!
He then wrote a letter to her GP saying that this was the solution he was
offering and other than that he was taking no further action!

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

That is not the sort of treatment I got from the retinal unit. From
start to discharge, they were superb. What department was your wife
visiting?

Your wife has my sympathy, as a visit to both of our children requires
us to drive 35, or 266 miles to see them and I very much doubt that my
wife would drive the 266 miles for a second time.

Dave

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:20:17 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:38:55 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

The private hospital does seem to be well equipped; it has a laminar
flow operating theatre for example.

That rings the "marketing puff" alarm bell in my mind. I'd rather
know that the autoclaves are properly maintained and used correctly
so that all the bits of steel they stick in me are clean and sterile
and that their procedures for rotating stocks of consumables are
robust so nothing is "out of date" and that the prodecures for
counting all the bits in and all the bits out are similary robust.

Our local hospital had problems with outsourcing of its equipment
sterilisation and a number of operations had to be cancelled due to visibly
dirty equipment. This may have had something to do with the fact that they
gave my wife two, possibly three infections in theatre during an emergency
ceasarean - they admitted that that was the most likely source of the
infections. When she went back a fortnight later, feeling wretched, they
told us that had she come in a few hours later, she'd very likely have
died. As it was, they had great difficulty in getting antibiotics into her,
as her veins had begun to collapse.

I must admit that with the next child they treated her very well, even
providing a private room free of charge. Arrangements for equipment
sterilisation had been changed by then!

SteveW

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:28:44 +0100, Dave wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:12:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.
I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us soon.

Dave

Hmmm, our experience of MREH is not quite so good.

My wife has had a peripheral vision problem since March of last year and
was referred to MREH. This problem is stopping her driving (she
misinterprets speed and distance of objects approaching from the left) and
as she is a Community Psychiatric Nurse, not being able to drive means she
cannot work.

After being bounced from one department to another (five conmsultants so
far), with a six week wait for each, then six weeks to have tests
(frequently repeats of tets that the other consultants have already had
done), then another four weeks before she can see someone to get the
results, she is getting nowhere.

She recently saw a consultant who told her that "we need to get to the
bottom of this" and made an appointment to see her again three weeks later
- when she went in, he was not available and she saw a different
consultant, who said that he didn't know what the problem was, but could
cure her problems surgically, by permanently blinding her in the left eye!
He then wrote a letter to her GP saying that this was the solution he was
offering and other than that he was taking no further action!

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

That is not the sort of treatment I got from the retinal unit. From
start to discharge, they were superb. What department was your wife
visiting?

The main ones were Opthalmology, Neuro-opthalmolgy and ENT.

Your wife has my sympathy, as a visit to both of our children requires
us to drive 35, or 266 miles to see them and I very much doubt that my
wife would drive the 266 miles for a second time.

Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving her
anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her! I'm dreading our next drive to France,
having recently done Manchester, Stranraer, Belfast, Belleek and back in
just over 30 hours for a funeral (Irish funerals are generally held within
48 hours of death, with the first service held within 24 hours and with
short notice and awkward plane times, it's sometimes just not possible to
get a suitable flight). Just to add to the fun we had our 5, 3 and 1 year
old kids with us - sheer masochism!

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:28:44 +0100, Dave wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:12:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the
same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my
partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular
reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.
I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us
soon.

Dave

Hmmm, our experience of MREH is not quite so good.

My wife has had a peripheral vision problem since March of last year and
was referred to MREH. This problem is stopping her driving (she
misinterprets speed and distance of objects approaching from the left)
and
as she is a Community Psychiatric Nurse, not being able to drive means
she
cannot work.

After being bounced from one department to another (five conmsultants so
far), with a six week wait for each, then six weeks to have tests
(frequently repeats of tets that the other consultants have already had
done), then another four weeks before she can see someone to get the
results, she is getting nowhere.

She recently saw a consultant who told her that "we need to get to the
bottom of this" and made an appointment to see her again three weeks
later
- when she went in, he was not available and she saw a different
consultant, who said that he didn't know what the problem was, but could
cure her problems surgically, by permanently blinding her in the left
eye!
He then wrote a letter to her GP saying that this was the solution he
was
offering and other than that he was taking no further action!

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an
undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

That is not the sort of treatment I got from the retinal unit. From
start to discharge, they were superb. What department was your wife
visiting?

The main ones were Opthalmology, Neuro-opthalmolgy and ENT.

Your wife has my sympathy, as a visit to both of our children requires
us to drive 35, or 266 miles to see them and I very much doubt that my
wife would drive the 266 miles for a second time.

Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving her
anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her! I'm dreading our next drive to France,
having recently done Manchester, Stranraer, Belfast, Belleek and back in
just over 30 hours for a funeral (Irish funerals are generally held within
48 hours of death, with the first service held within 24 hours and with
short notice and awkward plane times, it's sometimes just not possible to
get a suitable flight). Just to add to the fun we had our 5, 3 and 1 year
old kids with us - sheer masochism!

Steve, have you paid any shekels to see someone privately? If not, give it a
try. It might well be worth the 100, 150, 200 squids. The trick is to find
someone who actually has a clue, ask around at the hospital, the staff
usually know whom to steer clear of. I'm afraid you have to put your foot
down with a firm hand with these 'specialists'. When you get to see one have
your bull**** filter switched on. If you're lucky you'll find one who
actually knows what he's talking about. If not, try again. Sight is far too
precious to screw around with.
The main thing is, if you find a good bloke and accept his suggestions,
you'll get a fair way towards the top of the list.

Steve Walker wrote:


Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving her
anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her! I'm dreading our next drive to France,
having recently done Manchester, Stranraer, Belfast, Belleek and back in
just over 30 hours for a funeral (Irish funerals are generally held within
48 hours of death, with the first service held within 24 hours and with
short notice and awkward plane times, it's sometimes just not possible to
get a suitable flight). Just to add to the fun we had our 5, 3 and 1 year
old kids with us - sheer masochism!

You have my sympathy for that again.

For anyone reading this post, anyone who is over the age of 60 and has
an eye problem, the NHS provides a private ambulance service to get you
to your appointment at the designated hospital. It is done using
volunteer drivers paid by the mile and using their own cars.

The only problem is, you have to be assertive to find your local number
to request it.

Dave

"brass monkey" wrote in message
...

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:28:44 +0100, Dave wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:12:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the
same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my
partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular
reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.
I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a
full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last
October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later
I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have
a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my
worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward
to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us
soon.

Dave

Hmmm, our experience of MREH is not quite so good.

My wife has had a peripheral vision problem since March of last year
and
was referred to MREH. This problem is stopping her driving (she
misinterprets speed and distance of objects approaching from the left)
and
as she is a Community Psychiatric Nurse, not being able to drive means
she
cannot work.

After being bounced from one department to another (five conmsultants
so
far), with a six week wait for each, then six weeks to have tests
(frequently repeats of tets that the other consultants have already had
done), then another four weeks before she can see someone to get the
results, she is getting nowhere.

She recently saw a consultant who told her that "we need to get to the
bottom of this" and made an appointment to see her again three weeks
later
- when she went in, he was not available and she saw a different
consultant, who said that he didn't know what the problem was, but
could
cure her problems surgically, by permanently blinding her in the left
eye!
He then wrote a letter to her GP saying that this was the solution he
was
offering and other than that he was taking no further action!

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem
is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an
undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

That is not the sort of treatment I got from the retinal unit. From
start to discharge, they were superb. What department was your wife
visiting?

The main ones were Opthalmology, Neuro-opthalmolgy and ENT.

Your wife has my sympathy, as a visit to both of our children requires
us to drive 35, or 266 miles to see them and I very much doubt that my
wife would drive the 266 miles for a second time.

Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving her
anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her! I'm dreading our next drive to France,
having recently done Manchester, Stranraer, Belfast, Belleek and back in
just over 30 hours for a funeral (Irish funerals are generally held
within
48 hours of death, with the first service held within 24 hours and with
short notice and awkward plane times, it's sometimes just not possible to
get a suitable flight). Just to add to the fun we had our 5, 3 and 1 year
old kids with us - sheer masochism!

Steve, have you paid any shekels to see someone privately? If not, give it
a try. It might well be worth the 100, 150, 200 squids. The trick is to
find someone who actually has a clue, ask around at the hospital, the
staff usually know whom to steer clear of. I'm afraid you have to put your
foot down with a firm hand with these 'specialists'. When you get to see
one have your bull**** filter switched on. If you're lucky you'll find one
who actually knows what he's talking about. If not, try again. Sight is
far too precious to screw around with.
The main thing is, if you find a good bloke and accept his suggestions,
you'll get a fair way towards the top of the list.

I should add that although the system is corrupt (IMHO), money talks in this
situation, spend some.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:38:35 +0100, brass monkey wrote:

"brass monkey" wrote in message
...

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:28:44 +0100, Dave wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:12:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the
same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case, my
partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me regular
reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.
I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a
full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last
October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes later
I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to have
a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my
worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward
to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst us
soon.

Dave

Hmmm, our experience of MREH is not quite so good.

My wife has had a peripheral vision problem since March of last year
and
was referred to MREH. This problem is stopping her driving (she
misinterprets speed and distance of objects approaching from the left)
and
as she is a Community Psychiatric Nurse, not being able to drive means
she
cannot work.

After being bounced from one department to another (five conmsultants
so
far), with a six week wait for each, then six weeks to have tests
(frequently repeats of tets that the other consultants have already had
done), then another four weeks before she can see someone to get the
results, she is getting nowhere.

She recently saw a consultant who told her that "we need to get to the
bottom of this" and made an appointment to see her again three weeks
later
- when she went in, he was not available and she saw a different
consultant, who said that he didn't know what the problem was, but
could
cure her problems surgically, by permanently blinding her in the left
eye!
He then wrote a letter to her GP saying that this was the solution he
was
offering and other than that he was taking no further action!

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem
is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an
undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

That is not the sort of treatment I got from the retinal unit. From
start to discharge, they were superb. What department was your wife
visiting?

The main ones were Opthalmology, Neuro-opthalmolgy and ENT.

Your wife has my sympathy, as a visit to both of our children requires
us to drive 35, or 266 miles to see them and I very much doubt that my
wife would drive the 266 miles for a second time.

Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving her
anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her! I'm dreading our next drive to France,
having recently done Manchester, Stranraer, Belfast, Belleek and back in
just over 30 hours for a funeral (Irish funerals are generally held
within
48 hours of death, with the first service held within 24 hours and with
short notice and awkward plane times, it's sometimes just not possible to
get a suitable flight). Just to add to the fun we had our 5, 3 and 1 year
old kids with us - sheer masochism!

Steve, have you paid any shekels to see someone privately? If not, give it
a try. It might well be worth the 100, 150, 200 squids. The trick is to
find someone who actually has a clue, ask around at the hospital, the
staff usually know whom to steer clear of. I'm afraid you have to put your
foot down with a firm hand with these 'specialists'. When you get to see
one have your bull**** filter switched on. If you're lucky you'll find one
who actually knows what he's talking about. If not, try again. Sight is
far too precious to screw around with.
The main thing is, if you find a good bloke and accept his suggestions,
you'll get a fair way towards the top of the list.

I should add that although the system is corrupt (IMHO), money talks in this
situation, spend some.

We would love to, but I am currently out of work, having spent the previous
couple of years working only part time due to illness. I am now recovered
and looking hard for full-time work, but my wife is on reduced pay due to
extended sick leave (she would by now have been sacked, except that she was
on maternity leave, so instead of being off ill since March '08, she has
only been off since Jan '09). Unfortunately I cannot currently find
reasonably well paid work and if I return on too little, we will be unable
to pay the mortgage and other bills that are at present being paid by
insurance policies that will cease as soon as I start work, no matter how
poorly paid. It is unfortunate, but due to my extended illness, we have run
up debts that need to be paid - our combined income dropped from around
£60,000 to less than £20,000, but of course our fixed commitments have not
dropped to the same extent. Hopefully I will soon have work and the
situation will ease considerably.

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:38:35 +0100, brass monkey wrote:

"brass monkey" wrote in message
...

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:28:44 +0100, Dave wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:12:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

Thank you all. Having spoken to a couple of people who have had the
same
operation, I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. In any case,
my
partner
is doing enough worrying for both of us. She keeps giving me
regular
reports
on how Betty Boothroyd is doing, which seems to be encouraging her.
I know my problem is dwarfed by yours, but parts of what I have gone
through might ring a bell with you.

Until recently, the only opperation I have had where I have had a
full,
was when I was seven years old. I can't remember it.

All subsequent ones have been done under a local. However, last
October
I was wheeled down for an op under a local to have a detached retina
sorted. They hooked me up to monitoring devices and ten minutes
later
I
was wheeled back up to the ward after being told I would have to
have
a
full before they could opperate. By this time, my blood pressure had
leaped from very high to above cloud level with worry about losing
the
sight in my left eye and undergoing a full. On top of this was my
worry
about not coming round from going under. I even threatened the
anethasist that I would come back and haunt him if I died.

In the end, I wondered what I had worried about. Modern medicine has
moved on so much, it is nothing like it was 10 years ago.

Manchester's Royal eye hospital retinal unit is a centre of absolute
excelence in my mind, after spending Fri. Sat. Sunday there.

I won't wish you good luck, but I will say that I am looking forward
to
new posts from you. I am that confident you will be back amongst
us
soon.

Dave

Hmmm, our experience of MREH is not quite so good.

My wife has had a peripheral vision problem since March of last year
and
was referred to MREH. This problem is stopping her driving (she
misinterprets speed and distance of objects approaching from the
left)
and
as she is a Community Psychiatric Nurse, not being able to drive
means
she
cannot work.

After being bounced from one department to another (five conmsultants
so
far), with a six week wait for each, then six weeks to have tests
(frequently repeats of tets that the other consultants have already
had
done), then another four weeks before she can see someone to get the
results, she is getting nowhere.

She recently saw a consultant who told her that "we need to get to
the
bottom of this" and made an appointment to see her again three weeks
later
- when she went in, he was not available and she saw a different
consultant, who said that he didn't know what the problem was, but
could
cure her problems surgically, by permanently blinding her in the left
eye!
He then wrote a letter to her GP saying that this was the solution he
was
offering and other than that he was taking no further action!

So here we are 15 months down the line, with no idea what the problem
is
and only an offer of permanently blinding her in one eye. We politely
informed him that this course of action was too drastic for an
undiagnosed
condition, but he has since sent a letter pushing her to go for this
option.

That is not the sort of treatment I got from the retinal unit. From
start to discharge, they were superb. What department was your wife
visiting?

The main ones were Opthalmology, Neuro-opthalmolgy and ENT.

Your wife has my sympathy, as a visit to both of our children requires
us to drive 35, or 266 miles to see them and I very much doubt that my
wife would drive the 266 miles for a second time.

Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving
her
anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her! I'm dreading our next drive to France,
having recently done Manchester, Stranraer, Belfast, Belleek and back
in
just over 30 hours for a funeral (Irish funerals are generally held
within
48 hours of death, with the first service held within 24 hours and with
short notice and awkward plane times, it's sometimes just not possible
to
get a suitable flight). Just to add to the fun we had our 5, 3 and 1
year
old kids with us - sheer masochism!

Steve, have you paid any shekels to see someone privately? If not, give
it
a try. It might well be worth the 100, 150, 200 squids. The trick is to
find someone who actually has a clue, ask around at the hospital, the
staff usually know whom to steer clear of. I'm afraid you have to put
your
foot down with a firm hand with these 'specialists'. When you get to see
one have your bull**** filter switched on. If you're lucky you'll find
one
who actually knows what he's talking about. If not, try again. Sight is
far too precious to screw around with.
The main thing is, if you find a good bloke and accept his suggestions,
you'll get a fair way towards the top of the list.

I should add that although the system is corrupt (IMHO), money talks in
this
situation, spend some.

We would love to, but I am currently out of work, having spent the
previous
couple of years working only part time due to illness. I am now recovered
and looking hard for full-time work, but my wife is on reduced pay due to
extended sick leave (she would by now have been sacked, except that she
was
on maternity leave, so instead of being off ill since March '08, she has
only been off since Jan '09). Unfortunately I cannot currently find
reasonably well paid work and if I return on too little, we will be unable
to pay the mortgage and other bills that are at present being paid by
insurance policies that will cease as soon as I start work, no matter how
poorly paid. It is unfortunate, but due to my extended illness, we have
run
up debts that need to be paid - our combined income dropped from around
£60,000 to less than £20,000, but of course our fixed commitments have not
dropped to the same extent. Hopefully I will soon have work and the
situation will ease considerably.

SteveW

That's a real bummer, Steve. Let's hope you find something suitable soon.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:43:10 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Unfortunately I cannot currently find reasonably well paid work and if I
return on too little, we will be unable to pay the mortgage and other
bills that are at present being paid by insurance policies that will
cease as soon as I start work, no matter how poorly paid.

Welcome to the poverty trap.

I had a good year a couple or so back, more than 5k up on the
previous years, might have *turned over* the national average of 24k
or so. How much of that 5k actually ended up as extra money in my
pocket? About 1.5k after taking into account tax and the dramatic
reduction in Working Tax Credit, don't know why I bothered for a
measly 1.5k...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Steve Walker writes:

She has done this and yes it works, but we feel it is somewhat drastic to
be permanently blinded in one eye when there is no diagnosis. Once there is
a diagnosis, there may or may not be other options. There have been
suggestions that it may actually be an ear problem, causing balance
problems and interfering with the signals from the eye, but this particular
consultant does not seem interested in finding out.

There's an arc reflex from the balance organs to the orbit muscles,
which is very easy to demonstrate to yourself. Hold a piece of A4
typed text at arm's length, and you should be able to read it easily
with normal vision (corrected if necessary).

Now shake the piece of paper in your hand -- doesn't need to be very
fast or more than 1/2" displacement, but you won't be able to read it.

Now, instead of shaking the piece of paper, shake your head. You will
find that you can read the paper in this case, even when shaking your
head by the equivalent of moving the paper by many inches.

Why the difference between shaking your head and shaking the paper?
In the case of shaking the paper, in order to read the paper, your
eyes have to track the paper movement. This means detecting than the
paper has moved by processing the image in the brain in real-time,
and feeding back appropriate movements to the orbit muscles. Our
brains can't do this anything like fast enough.
In the case of shaking your head, an arc reflex transfers the head
movement from the balance organs to the orbit muscles, without going
through the brain. This pathway, if it's working, is orders of
magnitude faster than the case of shaking the paper and the image
processing pathway through the brain.
The orbit muscles in each eye are driven by the balance organ on
the same side. However, if the balance organs on one side stop
generating any signal, after a period of time, the arc reflex gets
rewired so both eyes are driven from the balance organ on the other
side. Unfortunately, the balance organs can fail in such a way as
to generate random data (e.g. Meniere's disease), and in bad cases,
the auditory nerve can be surgically cut to prevent this (hearing
has already been lost anyway by this point), and then relying on
the arc reflex rewiring to the other balance organ.

If you try the paper test with a view to actually checking that arc
reflex is intact, test with each eye separately. OTOH, if you think
there's any chance of a detached retina, shaking your head is a bad
idea.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:45:25 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving
her anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her!

Get a car with rear-facing seats? :-)

--
John Stumbles

Women always generalise

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:14:16 +0100, "nightjar" cpb@ wrote:

So am I., but I'm having a will drawn up, just in case.

Dunno how old you are Colin. I remember the Beatles at Shea Stadium being
on the news when I was a kid, and all their singles, as well as "one small
step for man". Touch wood I've been healthy so far but I'm aware the odds
get stacked higher by the year. All the best with whatever op you go
for/can get.

--
John Stumbles

Pessimists are never disappointed

John Stumbles wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:45:25 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Sometimes I think I need some of the sympathy - it's not easy driving
her anywhere as she's prone to screaming out whenever she perceives that
something is coming towards her!

Get a car with rear-facing seats? :-)


I once had to go from Preston, Lancs. to Portsmouth by Virgin trains. I
booked well in advance one way, as I was bringing our son's car back
North. I chose a forward looking seat.

The train arrived at Birmingham New Street to the usual dismal lighting
and after a short engineering delay, we pulled out backwards. The train
terminated at Reading, still going backwards and we all had to get off
and make for a train to take us to another station in which we travelled
backwards again, where we had to get off again to get a train to
Portsmouth. I think we travelled forwards on this one.

Not only do Virgin trians not go all the way, like their namesake, but
it was the next day before my eyes got used to not travelling backwards.

So I can't recomend a backward facing seat :-((

Dave

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:14:16 +0100, "nightjar" cpb@ wrote:

So am I., but I'm having a will drawn up, just in case.

Dunno how old you are Colin. I remember the Beatles at Shea Stadium being
on the news when I was a kid, and all their singles, as well as "one small
step for man".

I remember trams in London.

Touch wood I've been healthy so far but I'm aware the odds
get stacked higher by the year.

My problem is a birth defect. It has just taken a while to be detected :-)

All the best with whatever op you go
for/can get.

Thank you

Colin Bignell