Is this the last ever series? It been longer than most - almost as if
they have been finishing off all the programmes they started (so there
are none to carry over to the next series). They have also been
revisiting anything they can.

Andrew

In article ,
Andrew May wrote:
Is this the last ever series?

Dunno.

It been longer than most - almost as if
they have been finishing off all the programmes they started (so there
are none to carry over to the next series). They have also been
revisiting anything they can.

Think there were only actually 4 new progs - unless I've missed one which
would be difficult. ;-)

I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough income
to make decent progs.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Think there were only actually 4 new progs - unless I've missed one which
would be difficult. ;-)

Oddly, they finished the run with a repeat which wasn't even a
revisit. I have to say that it looks like they aren't really
trying any more.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Think there were only actually 4 new progs - unless I've missed one which
would be difficult. ;-)

Oddly, they finished the run with a repeat which wasn't even a
revisit. I have to say that it looks like they aren't really
trying any more.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

McCleod didn't suggest that it was finishing for ever, when he was
interviewed a few weeks back in ...... TV Times mag I think I saw it. I
haven't been taking too much notice of the closing credits this series, but
they usually say something like

"If you have a Grand Design that you would like to see included in the next
series, go to Channel 4.com ... etc"

I think I've still got one recorded. I'll go look. Nope, I've deleted
them all !

Arfa

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew May wrote:
Is this the last ever series?

Dunno.

It been longer than most - almost as if
they have been finishing off all the programmes they started (so there
are none to carry over to the next series). They have also been
revisiting anything they can.

Think there were only actually 4 new progs - unless I've missed one which
would be difficult. ;-)

I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough income
to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Andrew May wrote:
Is this the last ever series? It been longer than most - almost as if
they have been finishing off all the programmes they started (so there
are none to carry over to the next series). They have also been
revisiting anything they can.

Andrew

Would be nice if they turned their attention to innovative small
builds.


NT

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

and I imagine it has just about the longest payback period
of pretty well anything being made for TV today.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote:
Andrew May wrote:
Is this the last ever series? It been longer than most - almost as if
they have been finishing off all the programmes they started (so there
are none to carry over to the next series). They have also been
revisiting anything they can.

Andrew

Would be nice if they turned their attention to innovative small
builds.


I'd like to see that. I don't think we're that far away from self-build
becoming popular.

Rob

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

and I imagine it has just about the longest payback period
of pretty well anything being made for TV today.

Apart from CSI, obviously. ;-)

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Rob coughed up some electrons that declared:

wrote:
Andrew May wrote:
Is this the last ever series? It been longer than most - almost as if
they have been finishing off all the programmes they started (so there
are none to carry over to the next series). They have also been
revisiting anything they can.

Andrew

Would be nice if they turned their attention to innovative small
builds.


I'd like to see that. I don't think we're that far away from self-build
becoming popular.

Rob

Wish they have something like that, with a strong educational angle for
people like me ;-)

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Would be nice if they turned their attention to innovative small
builds.


I'd like to see that. I don't think we're that far away from self-build
becoming popular.

Rob

Wish they have something like that, with a strong educational angle for
people like me ;-)

I do so agree. Even the most experienced DIYer - or even tradesman - could
learn or be reminded about techniques from a half decent approach to a
prog like this. Grand Designs sometimes comes close - of all these sort of
progs. The DIY ones are just rubbish.

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought that it
required very little in terms of production crew, and post production
processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of editing time etc ?
It's not as if the format has changed one iota since the very first one. The
opening and closing credits have been the same for at least the last 4
series, and the music - opening, closing and incidental - has never changed.
McCleod even writes his own scripts as I recall.

I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...

Arfa

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Would be nice if they turned their attention to innovative small
builds.


I'd like to see that. I don't think we're that far away from self-build
becoming popular.

Rob

Wish they have something like that, with a strong educational angle for
people like me ;-)

I do so agree. Even the most experienced DIYer - or even tradesman - could
learn or be reminded about techniques from a half decent approach to a
prog like this. Grand Designs sometimes comes close - of all these sort of
progs. The DIY ones are just rubbish.

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Well, there you go then Dave ! As someone who is in the production business,
I'm sure you must know some ears that you could whisper the idea into, and
I'm sure that there would be no shortage of volunteers to appear among the
good folk tradesman on this group. Get Tommy Walsh to front it up ...

It would be like resurrecting the old Barry Bucknall DIY TV progs from the
50s !

Arfa

Arfa

On Wed, 13 May 2009 02:55:42 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought that it
required very little in terms of production crew, and post production
processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of editing time etc ?
It's not as if the format has changed one iota since the very first one. The
opening and closing credits have been the same for at least the last 4
series, and the music - opening, closing and incidental - has never changed.
McCleod even writes his own scripts as I recall.

I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...

Arfa



I think 6 site visits by a one man team would be cheap tv to make. But
then there's Kev and the fact they have at least 3 different camera
men and sound peeps for each show ...

They use aerial shots too which must be pricey.

Then there's all the post production staff ...

Having seen a news present say she's paid 92k (obscure one at that!) I
wouldn't be surprised if Kev was on shedloads.

And therein lies part of the problem with society. Footballers get
paid insane amounts of money to kick a ball about once a week for a
few months a year. This caused everyone else to want more money and
then everything spiralled and no one knows what their job is worth
these days.

I reckon we should get rid of celebrityness and only have sensible
news in the papers.

(I object greatly to presenters like Adrian Chiles walking on at the
start of that post-apprentice show - like he's some big fancy pants
man. He's not. He's a tv presenter who thinks he's god)

--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On Wed, 13 May 2009 02:59:58 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Would be nice if they turned their attention to innovative small
builds.


I'd like to see that. I don't think we're that far away from self-build
becoming popular.

Rob

Wish they have something like that, with a strong educational angle for
people like me ;-)

I do so agree. Even the most experienced DIYer - or even tradesman - could
learn or be reminded about techniques from a half decent approach to a
prog like this. Grand Designs sometimes comes close - of all these sort of
progs. The DIY ones are just rubbish.

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Well, there you go then Dave ! As someone who is in the production business,
I'm sure you must know some ears that you could whisper the idea into, and
I'm sure that there would be no shortage of volunteers to appear among the
good folk tradesman on this group. Get Tommy Walsh to front it up ...

It would be like resurrecting the old Barry Bucknall DIY TV progs from the
50s !

Arfa

Arfa


Is there nothing on you-tube?
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought
that it required very little in terms of production crew, and post
production processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of
editing time etc ? It's not as if the format has changed one iota since
the very first one. The opening and closing credits have been the same
for at least the last 4 series, and the music - opening, closing and
incidental - has never changed. McCleod even writes his own scripts as
I recall.

I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...

For a start they use the same crew throughout. Which involves travel costs.
A real el cheapo would use local people to save on that - where possible.
And the number of visits to the site. Doing this on separate occasions
pushes up the costs enormously. Far cheaper where a prog can be made in
one continuous period. They also use top quality equipment and
technicians. A real cheapo one would use semi pro equipment with just a
cameraman.
I'm not saying it costs anything like drama - which can be a million an
hour. Just that it's not a bargain basement prog.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I do so agree. Even the most experienced DIYer - or even tradesman -
could learn or be reminded about techniques from a half decent
approach to a prog like this. Grand Designs sometimes comes close - of
all these sort of progs. The DIY ones are just rubbish.

Well, there you go then Dave ! As someone who is in the production
business, I'm sure you must know some ears that you could whisper the
idea into,

Sadly I've nothing to do with the program ideas side - just an oily rag
techie...

and I'm sure that there would be no shortage of volunteers
to appear among the good folk tradesman on this group. Get Tommy Walsh
to front it up ...

It would be like resurrecting the old Barry Bucknall DIY TV progs from
the 50s !

Hardboard sales would go up, then?

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought
that it required very little in terms of production crew, and post
production processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of
editing time etc ? It's not as if the format has changed one iota since
the very first one. The opening and closing credits have been the same
for at least the last 4 series, and the music - opening, closing and
incidental - has never changed. McCleod even writes his own scripts as
I recall.

I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...

For a start they use the same crew throughout. Which involves travel
costs.
A real el cheapo would use local people to save on that - where possible.
And the number of visits to the site. Doing this on separate occasions
pushes up the costs enormously. Far cheaper where a prog can be made in
one continuous period. They also use top quality equipment and
technicians. A real cheapo one would use semi pro equipment with just a
cameraman.
I'm not saying it costs anything like drama - which can be a million an
hour. Just that it's not a bargain basement prog.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ah, OK. I wouldn't imagine for a moment that a company such as Channel 4
would commission or buy any programmes made with less than top-notch
equipment and people. I can't remember who the production company are, but I
would think that they are pretty small - and if they follow the trend of
many of the small not-quite-mainstream production companies, McCleod is
probably at least a director, if not part owner.

As far as the travel costs go, I wouldn't have expected that to come to more
than the amount that they sell one episode for, for the entire crew, and
entire series. For a few of tens of thousands, they could hire a luxury
coach to haul themselves and their gear around this small island for the
whole series, couldn't they ? Unless they are all staying in 5 star luxury,
I wouldn't have expected the accommodation costs for a small crew to be that
much, either. What's a Travel Lodge ? Forty quid a night ? Perfectly
adequate accommodation for production crew, I would have thought ? Or is it
all done differently to that ? Point taken that it is not "bargain basement"
though, as some satelllite offerings are. Again, I'm sure you are in a
better position to know, given that you are 'in the business' as it were.
Interesting stuff ...

Arfa

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
I do so agree. Even the most experienced DIYer - or even tradesman -
could learn or be reminded about techniques from a half decent
approach to a prog like this. Grand Designs sometimes comes close - of
all these sort of progs. The DIY ones are just rubbish.

Well, there you go then Dave ! As someone who is in the production
business, I'm sure you must know some ears that you could whisper the
idea into,

Sadly I've nothing to do with the program ideas side - just an oily rag
techie...


Oh come now Dave - I'm sure you do yourself a grave injustice ! Are the
directors and so on really so far above the rest of us 'on the ground' erks,
that they don't associate ? I would have thought that in order to get the
best from crews, they would have wanted to have known them, and kept them
working for them as teams, as much as possible. No ?

Arfa

On 13 May, 08:36, mogga wrote:

They use aerial shots too which must be pricey.

Aerial shots aren't that expensive, because they merely need a few
cheap helicopter pilots, not anyone _really_ expensive like a best
boy's grip wrangler. TV is one of the few industries that can make
aerospace look cheap (and then film does the same to TV).

Arfa Daily wrote:

I can't remember who the production company are, but I
would think that they are pretty small - and if they follow the trend of
many of the small not-quite-mainstream production companies, McCleod is
probably at least a director, if not part owner.


The production company is Talkback Thames. So not exactly small. IIRC
they are or part of them are what was once Thames TV but others my know
the exact heritage.

On Tue, 12 May 2009 21:59:50 +0100, Tim S wrote:
I'd like to see that. I don't think we're that far away from self-build
becoming popular.

Wish they have something like that, with a strong educational angle for
people like me ;-)

Hmm, I saw a DIY show in the US a few years ago which was all about
building the house from scratch, rather than the typical room make-over
progs which are commonplace. Sadly I've not seen it since, so maybe it
just didn't get the interest (which is a bit odd, because self-build is
very popular here*).

* one of the benefits of building pretty much everything with wood.

cheers

J.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought
that it required very little in terms of production crew, and post
production processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of
editing time etc ? It's not as if the format has changed one iota since
the very first one. The opening and closing credits have been the same
for at least the last 4 series, and the music - opening, closing and
incidental - has never changed. McCleod even writes his own scripts as
I recall.

I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...

For a start they use the same crew throughout. Which involves travel costs.
A real el cheapo would use local people to save on that - where possible.
And the number of visits to the site. Doing this on separate occasions
pushes up the costs enormously. Far cheaper where a prog can be made in
one continuous period. They also use top quality equipment and
technicians. A real cheapo one would use semi pro equipment with just a
cameraman.
I'm not saying it costs anything like drama - which can be a million an
hour. Just that it's not a bargain basement prog.

I wounder how many builds they start following which don't lead to
a programme? e.g. if they go bust in the middle, couple split up,
never gets finished, etc. That's another cost.

Perhaps there's some material for an "Over-grand Designs" series? ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought
that it required very little in terms of production crew, and post
production processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of
editing time etc ? It's not as if the format has changed one iota since
the very first one. The opening and closing credits have been the same
for at least the last 4 series, and the music - opening, closing and
incidental - has never changed. McCleod even writes his own scripts as
I recall.

I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...

For a start they use the same crew throughout. Which involves travel
costs. A real el cheapo would use local people to save on that - where
possible. And the number of visits to the site. Doing this on separate
occasions pushes up the costs enormously. Far cheaper where a prog can be
made in one continuous period. They also use top quality equipment and
technicians. A real cheapo one would use semi pro equipment with just a
cameraman.
I'm not saying it costs anything like drama - which can be a million an
hour. Just that it's not a bargain basement prog.

I wounder how many builds they start following which don't lead to
a programme? e.g. if they go bust in the middle, couple split up,
never gets finished, etc. That's another cost.

Perhaps there's some material for an "Over-grand Designs" series? ;-)


There's a whole new series: Self build disasters, or "I'm living in a
tarpauline covered steel frame"

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
Ah, OK. I wouldn't imagine for a moment that a company such as Channel 4
would commission or buy any programmes made with less than top-notch
equipment and people. I can't remember who the production company are,
but I would think that they are pretty small - and if they follow the
trend of many of the small not-quite-mainstream production companies,
McCleod is probably at least a director, if not part owner

It's Talkback Thames - IIRC the largest independant in the UK and owned by
RTL (Radio Luxembourg). They are perhaps most famous as makers of The Bill.

--
*I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I wounder how many builds they start following which don't lead to
a programme? e.g. if they go bust in the middle, couple split up,
never gets finished, etc. That's another cost.

There's been at least one episode where the guy building it started with
one woman by his side and finally moved in with another :-)

Andrew

On Wed, 13 May 2009 10:45:49 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

I wouldn't have expected the accommodation costs for a small crew to be
that much, either. What's a Travel Lodge ? Forty quid a night ?

I wish... The flexible rates start at £41/night but vary from there up
depending on the demand at a particular lodge on a particular night. Ones
around here are charging over £50/night for tonight. These rates do not
include breakfast.

Travel Lodge are the cheapest of the half decent accommodation chains.
Comfort Inn, Premmier Inn, Holiday Inn, Marriott, Ibis, Ramada Jarvis etc
are consistently more expensive in my experience.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 15:03:21 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2009 10:45:49 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

I wouldn't have expected the accommodation costs for a small crew to be
that much, either. What's a Travel Lodge ? Forty quid a night ?

I wish... The flexible rates start at £41/night but vary from there up
depending on the demand at a particular lodge on a particular night. Ones
around here are charging over £50/night for tonight. These rates do not
include breakfast.

Travel Lodge are the cheapest of the half decent accommodation chains.
Comfort Inn, Premmier Inn, Holiday Inn, Marriott, Ibis, Ramada Jarvis etc
are consistently more expensive in my experience.

Holiday Inn includes breakfast, so factor that in.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Tim S wrote:
Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought
that it required very little in terms of production crew, and post
production processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of
editing time etc ? It's not as if the format has changed one iota since
the very first one. The opening and closing credits have been the same
for at least the last 4 series, and the music - opening, closing and
incidental - has never changed. McCleod even writes his own scripts as
I recall.
I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...
For a start they use the same crew throughout. Which involves travel
costs. A real el cheapo would use local people to save on that - where
possible. And the number of visits to the site. Doing this on separate
occasions pushes up the costs enormously. Far cheaper where a prog can be
made in one continuous period. They also use top quality equipment and
technicians. A real cheapo one would use semi pro equipment with just a
cameraman.
I'm not saying it costs anything like drama - which can be a million an
hour. Just that it's not a bargain basement prog.
I wounder how many builds they start following which don't lead to
a programme? e.g. if they go bust in the middle, couple split up,
never gets finished, etc. That's another cost.

Perhaps there's some material for an "Over-grand Designs" series? ;-)


There's a whole new series: Self build disasters, or "I'm living in a
tarpauline covered steel frame"

Isn't that prog called DIY SOS?

Dave

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

For a start they use the same crew throughout. Which involves travel costs.
A real el cheapo would use local people to save on that - where possible.
And the number of visits to the site. Doing this on separate occasions
pushes up the costs enormously.

A lot cheaper than Grand Designs Abroad though. IIRC they only made one
series of that although there have been a couple of 'revisits'.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Think there were only actually 4 new progs - unless I've missed one which
would be difficult. ;-)

More than that. There was, in no particular order:

The South Wales Folly

The New Farmhouse

The Passivaus, the the arch that collapsed

The house with the heated windows that was discussed here

The house with the angled pod for the master suite

The New England water mill that ran foul of the planners

The French eco-house built from tyres and old bottles

The house next to the Mill somewhere near Bath

So eight new episodes in total. IIRC there are usually only six episodes
to a series which is why I thought that maybe they were wrapping it all
up and finishing off all the builds that they had on the go. Is there
some rule of thumb that says that TV series should be in 4, 6 or 13 parts?

Andrew

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 13 May, 08:36, mogga wrote:

They use aerial shots too which must be pricey.

Aerial shots aren't that expensive, because they merely need a few
cheap helicopter pilots, not anyone _really_ expensive like a best
boy's grip wrangler. TV is one of the few industries that can make
aerospace look cheap (and then film does the same to TV).

A pilot's time might be cheap, but helicopter time isn't.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Wed, 13 May 2009 10:45:49 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

I wouldn't have expected the accommodation costs for a small crew to be
that much, either. What's a Travel Lodge ? Forty quid a night ?

I wish... The flexible rates start at £41/night but vary from there up
depending on the demand at a particular lodge on a particular night. Ones
around here are charging over £50/night for tonight. These rates do not
include breakfast.

Travel Lodge are the cheapest of the half decent accommodation chains.
Comfort Inn, Premmier Inn, Holiday Inn, Marriott, Ibis, Ramada Jarvis etc
are consistently more expensive in my experience.

--
Cheers
Dave.

OK, 40, 50 , even 60 quid a night, but not 200 or anything ...

Arfa

In article ,
Gib Bogle wrote:
Aerial shots aren't that expensive, because they merely need a few
cheap helicopter pilots, not anyone _really_ expensive like a best
boy's grip wrangler. TV is one of the few industries that can make
aerospace look cheap (and then film does the same to TV).

A pilot's time might be cheap, but helicopter time isn't.

I did wonder - I'd been led to believe that in London at least they were
prohibitively expensive. I haven't had one on a shoot for some 20 years -
and that's on drama where budgets are very much larger.
Of course you could use a model one equipped with a suitable camera. But
those don't come cheap either.

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say it's suffering from the current ITV malaise - not enough
income to make decent progs.


Can't get much lower budget than that surely.

Oh yes you can. It's not a cheap prog to make.

What particularly causes it to be "not cheap" ? I would have thought
that it required very little in terms of production crew, and post
production processing. Cameraman, soundman, junior director, bit of
editing time etc ? It's not as if the format has changed one iota
since the very first one. The opening and closing credits have been
the same for at least the last 4 series, and the music - opening,
closing and incidental - has never changed. McCleod even writes his
own scripts as I recall.

I'm sure as you are in that business, you know better than I. Just
interested ...

For a start they use the same crew throughout. Which involves travel
costs.
A real el cheapo would use local people to save on that - where
possible. And the number of visits to the site. Doing this on
separate occasions pushes up the costs enormously. Far cheaper where
a prog can be made in one continuous period. They also use top
quality equipment and technicians. A real cheapo one would use semi
pro equipment with just a cameraman.
I'm not saying it costs anything like drama - which can be a million
an hour. Just that it's not a bargain basement prog.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ah, OK. I wouldn't imagine for a moment that a company such as
Channel 4 would commission or buy any programmes made with less than
top-notch equipment and people. I can't remember who the production
company are, but I would think that they are pretty small - and if
they follow the trend of many of the small not-quite-mainstream
production companies, McCleod is probably at least a director, if not
part owner.
As far as the travel costs go, I wouldn't have expected that to come
to more than the amount that they sell one episode for, for the
entire crew, and entire series. For a few of tens of thousands, they
could hire a luxury coach to haul themselves and their gear around
this small island for the whole series, couldn't they ? Unless they
are all staying in 5 star luxury, I wouldn't have expected the
accommodation costs for a small crew to be that much, either. What's
a Travel Lodge ? Forty quid a night ? Perfectly adequate
accommodation for production crew, I would have thought ? Or is it
all done differently to that ? Point taken that it is not "bargain
basement" though, as some satelllite offerings are. Again, I'm sure
you are in a better position to know, given that you are 'in the
business' as it were. Interesting stuff ...

There speaketh a man who hasn't recently stayed in a Travelodge. I wouldn't
keep a dog in a Travelodge. They're like the hotel of your nightmares -
bookings often seem to go awry, the rooms stink of fags and they're
generally bloody unpleasant.

Reasonable expenses for someone travelling and staying away from home are
more like £60 a night for basic accomodation (Premier inn or similar) £7-10
for breakfast, £10-£20 for dinner and £5-10 for lunch. If you're at the
upper end of that (which is very easy, if you happen to be billeted in a
vaguely posh area, even outside of the south east), you're into the thick
end of £100 a day. Plus 40p a mile for travel.

The other thing with Grand Designs is that it's obviously not a cheap
programme - the whole thing appears to be done very slickly, with very
little re-use of footage within the programme, unlike 90% of the dross on TV
that seems to be a 30 minute programme dragged out to last an hour.

Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009 15:03:21 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2009 10:45:49 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

I wouldn't have expected the accommodation costs for a small crew
to be that much, either. What's a Travel Lodge ? Forty quid a night
?

I wish... The flexible rates start at £41/night but vary from there
up depending on the demand at a particular lodge on a particular
night. Ones around here are charging over £50/night for tonight.
These rates do not include breakfast.

Travel Lodge are the cheapest of the half decent accommodation
chains. Comfort Inn, Premmier Inn, Holiday Inn, Marriott, Ibis,
Ramada Jarvis etc are consistently more expensive in my experience.

Holiday Inn includes breakfast, so factor that in.

IME Holiday Inn is usually about £90 a night.

Doki wrote:

The other thing with Grand Designs is that it's obviously not a cheap
programme - the whole thing appears to be done very slickly, with very
little re-use of footage within the programme, unlike 90% of the dross
on TV that seems to be a 30 minute programme dragged out to last an hour.

Although if you cut all the adverts out the one hour programme is only
46 minutes in total. But agreed, it does seem to be better put together
than a lot of them.

Andrew

On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:11:43 +0100, Doki wrote:

I wouldn't keep a dog in a Travelodge. They're like the hotel of your
nightmares - bookings often seem to go awry,

Not my experience, they are at least consistent and generally well
maintained, you know what you are going to get. The online booking system
works well unlike some other chains sites that are so full of javascript
that unless you have the latest high power PC and/or use IE are pig slow..

the rooms stink of fags

Not any more *all* rooms are non-smoking. They did at one time have rooms
in which you could smoke and they where bloody awful and you could select
at booking for a non-smoking room but the system was a little confusing.
The one time I made a mistake I jumped up and down and they moved me. B-)

and they're generally bloody unpleasant.

There speaketh a man who hasn't recently stayed in a private hotel in the
similar price bracket. Travel Lodges are at least have good sized rooms
with decent furnishings and are clean and warm. The same can't be said for
many private hotels with rooms were 90% of the floor space is taken by the
bed, the facilities are old and dirty and the carpet moves on it's own.

Reasonable expenses for someone travelling and staying away from home
are more like £60 a night for basic accomodation (Premier inn or
similar) £7-10 for breakfast, £10-£20 for dinner and £5-10 for lunch. If
you're at the upper end of that (which is very easy, if you happen to be
billeted in a vaguely posh area, even outside of the south east), you're
into the thick end of £100 a day. Plus 40p a mile for travel.

On scale rates, rather than actuality, the bed part is only about £40
before the taxman starts to take an interest and your meals are a few quid
above what HMR&C allow as well. The total 24hr allowance (unreceipted) is
around £60/day. Of course if you go actuality and provide the receipts
then these limits don't apply but you can't mix 'n match you are either on
scale rates or on actuality. 40p/mile scale rate only applies to the first
10,000 miles/year after that it drops to something around 20p/mile.

The other thing with Grand Designs is that it's obviously not a cheap
programme - the whole thing appears to be done very slickly, with very
little re-use of footage within the programme, unlike 90% of the dross
on TV that seems to be a 30 minute programme dragged out to last an
hour.

Agreed, it is properly made programme that doesn't assume the audience has
the attention span of a goldfish.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Andrew May wrote:

Doki wrote:

The other thing with Grand Designs is that it's obviously not a cheap
programme - the whole thing appears to be done very slickly, with very
little re-use of footage within the programme, unlike 90% of the dross
on TV that seems to be a 30 minute programme dragged out to last an hour.

Although if you cut all the adverts out the one hour programme is only
46 minutes in total.

Chop out the titles, credits and the recap after the breaks, watch it at
110% speed and you can carve another 10 minutes off that.