House needs a rewire, as does the workshop. Now that the price of
copper has fallen a bit, it's time to start work 8-)

Any advice on estimating this?

Both cables & sundries, but obviously cable lengths are the first
thing. The number of conduit saddles in the workshop is hardly a major
budget item, but it's still a pain to run out at the weekend.

As the workshop is going to be in 20mm PVC conduit, is there anything
to choose between running single wires, or T&E ? T&E is cheaper (about
the same as two cores), presumably owing to the greater sales.

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
House needs a rewire, as does the workshop. Now that the price of
copper has fallen a bit, it's time to start work 8-)

Any advice on estimating this?

I played the game of installing the ring circuits without cutting
the conductors, which meant making sure I bought a long enough reel
to do the whole ring in one piece. Not something I would advocate
unless you like a challenge or are OCD on perfection;-)

Both cables & sundries, but obviously cable lengths are the first
thing. The number of conduit saddles in the workshop is hardly a major
budget item, but it's still a pain to run out at the weekend.

I didn't worry about buying too much (although it wasn't expensive
back then). I tend to keep stocks of leftovers, which are often
useful later on.

As the workshop is going to be in 20mm PVC conduit, is there anything
to choose between running single wires, or T&E ? T&E is cheaper (about
the same as two cores), presumably owing to the greater sales.

Singles are much easier in conduit. I was about to say you probably
wouldn't get 2 T&E's in a 20mm conduit, but I just tried and you can.
Wouldn't like to pull it any distance or around corners though, and
you'd have to pull both in togther in one go (although you're supposed
to do that with singles too, to reduce risk of damage).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andy Dingley wrote:
House needs a rewire, as does the workshop. Now that the price of
copper has fallen a bit, it's time to start work 8-)

Any advice on estimating this?

I have got a full bill of materials list for my garage and workshop,
plus also a 3 bed semi rewire I did fir the previous neighbour if it
helps. Got circuit topology diagrams in Visio as well (could export to a
image file probably)

Both cables & sundries, but obviously cable lengths are the first
thing. The number of conduit saddles in the workshop is hardly a major
budget item, but it's still a pain to run out at the weekend.

As the workshop is going to be in 20mm PVC conduit, is there anything

The workshop I have got now was in 20mm conduit. I scrapped most of that
and did flush mount in the lining. (the previous owners idea of adequate
sockets as something like 3 doubles). I stuck about 14 doubles in there
IIRC.

to choose between running single wires, or T&E ? T&E is cheaper (about
the same as two cores), presumably owing to the greater sales.

Singles are easier to thread round corners etc. Having said that, if you
are using inspection elbows then T&E is not too difficult.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Dingley wrote:
House needs a rewire, as does the workshop. Now that the price of
copper has fallen a bit, it's time to start work 8-)

Any advice on estimating this?

For the cables, bite the bullet and pace it all out. For the
accessories, do drawings showing locations of all accessories and take a
bill of materials from same. For sundries, don't sweat it.

Depending on the size of your house and the extravagance of your wiring,
you'll probably end up needing 100-200m of 1.5 T&E, 100-200m of 2.5 T&E
and 50-100m of 1.5 3&E.

Everything else (cooker, shower, bonding, tails, etc) buy as cut lengths
(unless you get close to 50m or 100m), but be generous in your estimates.


Both cables & sundries, but obviously cable lengths are the first
thing. The number of conduit saddles in the workshop is hardly a major
budget item, but it's still a pain to run out at the weekend.

As the workshop is going to be in 20mm PVC conduit, is there anything
to choose between running single wires, or T&E ? T&E is cheaper (about
the same as two cores), presumably owing to the greater sales.

Wot Andy Gabriel says ;-)

Got circuit topology diagrams in Visio as well
I'd be interested in those to see how it ought to be done (a.k.a
plagiarise shamelessly). Can you please drop the Visio files
somewhere or mail them to me at usenet{AT}robinwillis.com?
--
Robin

On 21 Apr, 20:16, Dave Osborne wrote:

Depending on the size of your house and the extravagance of your wiring,
you'll probably end up needing 100-200m of 1.5 T&E, 100-200m of 2.5 T&E
and 50-100m of 1.5 3&E.

Lighting in 1.5mm^2 or 1? I can see 1.5 for some runs to a whole
floor, but not for every individual switch. Even the big workshop
lights, 250W SON-Es (I have dozens of the things, from an auction
years ago), are only pulling 1A per circuit.

What's with all the 3+E, as opposed to 2 reds/browns+E ? I've a
couple of two-ways to do on the stairs, but otherwise I was expecting
to be using more of the 2 phase+E than 3+E. Are you pulling this down
to every switch as standard?

Andy Dingley coughed up some electrons that declared:

House needs a rewire, as does the workshop. Now that the price of
copper has fallen a bit, it's time to start work 8-)

Any advice on estimating this?

Both cables & sundries, but obviously cable lengths are the first
thing. The number of conduit saddles in the workshop is hardly a major
budget item, but it's still a pain to run out at the weekend.

As the workshop is going to be in 20mm PVC conduit, is there anything
to choose between running single wires, or T&E ? T&E is cheaper (about
the same as two cores), presumably owing to the greater sales.

I'm running a mixture. 10mm2 T+E will not fit in 20mm conduit and 25mm is a
bit too much wall chasing. So I'm running my cooker and heating (which has
9kW electric backup) in singles in conduit - but the runs are fairly
direct. The rest in T+E. I will probably do my roof void inspection lamps
in conduit and singles as it's easier to support a bot of conduit overhead
between rafters than dangle T+E where it might get damaged.

For 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 I would just get 100m reels. When that runs out (and
it will) take a guess at a 50m reel or whether you are so close to
finishing that a cut length is better.

Gilflex conduit from www.discount-electrical.co.uk is dirt cheap. Used some
today. The difference between it and MK Egatube (which they also sell for
much more dosh) is the quality of the plastic. Gilflex is slightly rough,
Egatube is smooth and shiney. However, both seem strong, solvent weld and
bend OK (though bending did handle differently).

For shoving in a wall or roof spaces, Gilflex should be fine. For better
presentation, I think I would by Egatube or some other "better" brand.

Get a conduit bending spring (or any bending spring about the right size) -
no need for swept bends unless you need an inspection type, it bends easily
by hand.

For overall estimation, I started with TLC's website (www.tlc-direct.co.uk)
and priced everything off there - they have most common stuff, and though
the prices can be bettered, their not outrageous for an estimate.

HTH

Tim

In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
As the workshop is going to be in 20mm PVC conduit, is there anything
to choose between running single wires, or T&E ? T&E is cheaper (about
the same as two cores), presumably owing to the greater sales.

I prefer to use PVC trunking - at least you can add to it later easily if
needed. And protects the cables just about as well.

--
*Modulation in all things *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Depending on the size of your house and the extravagance of your
wiring, you'll probably end up needing 100-200m of 1.5 T&E, 100-200m
of 2.5 T&E and 50-100m of 1.5 3&E.

Lighting in 1.5mm^2 or 1? I can see 1.5 for some runs to a whole
floor, but not for every individual switch. Even the big workshop
lights, 250W SON-Es (I have dozens of the things, from an auction
years ago), are only pulling 1A per circuit.

I tend to do the lighting in 1.5, but switch drops in 1.0.

What's with all the 3+E, as opposed to 2 reds/browns+E ? I've a
couple of two-ways to do on the stairs, but otherwise I was expecting
to be using more of the 2 phase+E than 3+E. Are you pulling this down
to every switch as standard?

3+E can be useful if you want switched floor outlets for table lamps, etc
- brings the correct neutral down to that level.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

neverwas wrote:

Got circuit topology diagrams in Visio as well

I'd be interested in those to see how it ought to be done (a.k.a
plagiarise shamelessly). Can you please drop the Visio files
somewhere or mail them to me at usenet{AT}robinwillis.com?

Help yourself:

http://www.internode.co.uk/ukdiy/

(I could not find a decent symbol set yo use, so in the end I created my
own)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 21 Apr, 20:16, Dave Osborne wrote:

Depending on the size of your house and the extravagance of your wiring,
you'll probably end up needing 100-200m of 1.5 T&E, 100-200m of 2.5 T&E
and 50-100m of 1.5 3&E.

Lighting in 1.5mm^2 or 1? I can see 1.5 for some runs to a whole
floor, but not for every individual switch. Even the big workshop

I always use 1.0 - massive overkill for a 6A circuit as it is!

lights, 250W SON-Es (I have dozens of the things, from an auction
years ago), are only pulling 1A per circuit.

What's with all the 3+E, as opposed to 2 reds/browns+E ? I've a
couple of two-ways to do on the stairs, but otherwise I was expecting
to be using more of the 2 phase+E than 3+E. Are you pulling this down
to every switch as standard?

I find in a house rewire, I only typically use 20m of the stuff - a
couple of runs for bidirectional two way switching on the stairs etc.
Perhaps more if there are lots of PIR controlled lights, where being
able to pipe about live and switched live leaves lots of options open
for slaving PIRs, and lights in various ways.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 21 Apr, 20:16, Dave Osborne wrote:

Depending on the size of your house and the extravagance of your wiring,
you'll probably end up needing 100-200m of 1.5 T&E, 100-200m of 2.5 T&E
and 50-100m of 1.5 3&E.

Lighting in 1.5mm^2 or 1?

I'm with you (and also John R) with this, but over the years, I've just
standardised on 1.5-and-be-done-with-it.

What's with all the 3+E, as opposed to 2 reds/browns+E ?

2-way light switching and linked mains smoke detectors.

Help yourself:

Thanks. I finally got around to looking at them this morning. Helpful.
And I was comforted to see that even you had not rattled off plans, 2
elevations and an overview with perspective


--
Robin

neverwas wrote:
Help yourself:

Thanks. I finally got around to looking at them this morning. Helpful.
And I was comforted to see that even you had not rattled off plans, 2
elevations and an overview with perspective

Ah, well if I had known you wanted those as well... have a look on this
web page:

http:\\http://www.internode.co.uk\na-only-k...-not_that_sad\

Basic circuit topology is all you need really.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 21 Apr, 17:31, Andy Dingley wrote:

Any advice on estimating this?

Realised my only real question is buying 50m vs. 100m rolls. I don't
save by buying more, I won't be buying cut lengths for anything except
shower cabling. I won't pull more than 50m of cable in a day anyway.

Then I get to TLC and find they only have 100m rolls anyway, and they
"don't get much call" for twin-brown 2P+E (!?) so it looks like all
the switches will be run back to their loopins as 3+E anyway.

What a faff to influence nothing in the end!

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 21 Apr, 17:31, Andy Dingley wrote:

Any advice on estimating this?

Realised my only real question is buying 50m vs. 100m rolls. I don't
save by buying more, I won't be buying cut lengths for anything except
shower cabling. I won't pull more than 50m of cable in a day anyway.

I must admit I never bother buying small reels (for common sizes) - you
always find a use for any leftovers in time.

Then I get to TLC and find they only have 100m rolls anyway, and they
"don't get much call" for twin-brown 2P+E (!?) so it looks like all
the switches will be run back to their loopins as 3+E anyway.

Quite often when I internet order form them, they spend a couple of days
shuffling stuff to the local branch from others it seems. That suggests
that turning up on the door hoping for less common stuff may leave you
disappointed more often than not.

What a faff to influence nothing in the end!

Such is life!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Quite often when I internet order form them, they spend a couple of days
shuffling stuff to the local branch from others it seems. That suggests
that turning up on the door hoping for less common stuff may leave you
disappointed more often than not.

I've found that internet ordering (for collection from you local branch)
takes longer that getting the branch to do it for you. Most things I seem
to want they'll have in stock and get those not usually by the next day.
Internet orders seem to take 2-3 days to get there.

--
*OK, who stopped payment on my reality check?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

John Rumm wrote:
neverwas wrote:
Help yourself:

Thanks. I finally got around to looking at them this morning.
Helpful. And I was comforted to see that even you had not rattled off
plans, 2 elevations and an overview with perspective

Ah, well if I had known you wanted those as well... have a look on this
web page:

http:\\http://www.internode.co.uk\na-only-k...-not_that_sad\


Tried that URL John and it didn't work??? ;-P

Dave Osborne wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
neverwas wrote:
Help yourself:

Thanks. I finally got around to looking at them this morning.
Helpful. And I was comforted to see that even you had not rattled off
plans, 2 elevations and an overview with perspective

Ah, well if I had known you wanted those as well... have a look on
this web page:

http:\\http://www.internode.co.uk\na-only-k...-not_that_sad\


Tried that URL John and it didn't work??? ;-P

You don't sound too disappointed! ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/