Warning - I'm going say highly unfashionable things:

Having stripped some ceilings, I need a plan on making them look good again.

Skimming with plaster is out of the question (no money to get it done, and
I'm sure I can't manage to DIY it; walls yes, ceiling no).

I don't want to paper it again as it's also a fiddly job upside down and
it'll fall off anyway in the kitchen, with the steam from cooking.

So that last logical course of action is artex, with a weak texture,
like "broken leather", which is reasonably inoffensive, and paints and
cleans well.

But, before I go and order a load of bags, is there anything else I might
consider? eg is "artex" basically one product, or are there loads of makes
and types of similar stuff, but some are better than others? I basically
want "whipped cream" that "sticks like sh*t" and stays that way forever.

I assume it's best to PVA first, if the substrate has flaky bits?

Cheers

Tim

On 27 Feb, 10:45, Tim S wrote:
Warning - I'm going say highly unfashionable things:

Having stripped some ceilings, I need a plan on making them look good again.

Skimming with plaster is out of the question (no money to get it done, and
I'm sure I can't manage to DIY it; walls yes, ceiling no).

I don't want to paper it again as it's also a fiddly job upside down and
it'll fall off anyway in the kitchen, with the steam from cooking.

So that last logical course of action is artex, with a weak texture,
like "broken leather", which is reasonably inoffensive, and paints and
cleans well.

But, before I go and order a load of bags, is there anything else I might
consider?

Can't you whack up taper-edged plasterboard, tape, fill and sand,
instead?

coughed up some electrons that declared:

Can't you whack up taper-edged plasterboard, tape, fill and sand,
instead?

No - too much work[1] - also been done once already a couple of decades
back. I'm happy with an "artex" type textu I don't care about fashion -
just seeing if it's all the same or if a particular product is better than
the others - never done "artex" before.

[1] Already got too much to do ;-

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:

Can't you whack up taper-edged plasterboard, tape, fill and sand,
instead?

No - too much work[1] - also been done once already a couple of decades
back. I'm happy with an "artex" type textu I don't care about fashion -
just seeing if it's all the same or if a particular product is better than
the others - never done "artex" before.

[1] Already got too much to do ;-

Cheers

Tim

Skimming a ceiling that's already fairly flat is actually pretty easy if
you use Artex instead of plaster. Very forgiving stuff that you can
trowel and re-trowel for as long as you need. Working overhead is
exhausting though

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:

Can't you whack up taper-edged plasterboard, tape, fill and sand,
instead?

No - too much work[1] - also been done once already a couple of decades
back. I'm happy with an "artex" type textu I don't care about fashion
- just seeing if it's all the same or if a particular product is better
than the others - never done "artex" before.

[1] Already got too much to do ;-

Cheers

Tim

Skimming a ceiling that's already fairly flat is actually pretty easy if
you use Artex instead of plaster. Very forgiving stuff that you can
trowel and re-trowel for as long as you need. Working overhead is
exhausting though

Hmm - that's an angle I hadn't considered. After all, the ceiling is flat
and I don't need a hard mirror finish as it will be painted. It's just too
rough to paint right now due to infinite filled and patched area.

Cheers

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Warning - I'm going say highly unfashionable things:

Having stripped some ceilings, I need a plan on making them look good
again.

Skimming with plaster is out of the question (no money to get it done, and
I'm sure I can't manage to DIY it; walls yes, ceiling no).

I don't want to paper it again as it's also a fiddly job upside down and
it'll fall off anyway in the kitchen, with the steam from cooking.

So that last logical course of action is artex, with a weak texture,
like "broken leather", which is reasonably inoffensive, and paints and
cleans well.

But, before I go and order a load of bags, is there anything else I might
consider? eg is "artex" basically one product, or are there loads of makes
and types of similar stuff, but some are better than others? I basically
want "whipped cream" that "sticks like sh*t" and stays that way forever.

I assume it's best to PVA first, if the substrate has flaky bits?

Cheers

Tim

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver

Adam

ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver

I just did - that looks very interesting. Have you used it before Adam?

If it sticks well, and is stable, that could be just the job. I could use it
on the walls too instead of lining paper. In most places the plasters
sound - but as rough as a hedgehog's arse.

Cheers

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver

I just did - that looks very interesting. Have you used it before Adam?

If it sticks well, and is stable, that could be just the job. I could use
it
on the walls too instead of lining paper. In most places the plasters
sound - but as rough as a hedgehog's arse.

Cheers

Tim

I have not used it but friends of mine have. I will take some pictures of
the finished surface if you want. It did take a bit of time to sand down.

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver
I just did - that looks very interesting. Have you used it before Adam?

If it sticks well, and is stable, that could be just the job. I could use
it
on the walls too instead of lining paper. In most places the plasters
sound - but as rough as a hedgehog's arse.

Cheers

Tim

I have not used it but friends of mine have. I will take some pictures of
the finished surface if you want. It did take a bit of time to sand down.

Adam



IME you really can't get a smooth finish without a trowel of some kind,
and the "SmartSmoother" seems to be just another version of that. A
standard plastering trowel is the same thing with a handle for ease of
use. Why complicate things?

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

ARWadsworth wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver
I just did - that looks very interesting. Have you used it before Adam?

If it sticks well, and is stable, that could be just the job. I could
use it
on the walls too instead of lining paper. In most places the plasters
sound - but as rough as a hedgehog's arse.

Cheers

Tim

I have not used it but friends of mine have. I will take some pictures of
the finished surface if you want. It did take a bit of time to sand down.

Adam



IME you really can't get a smooth finish without a trowel of some kind,
and the "SmartSmoother" seems to be just another version of that. A
standard plastering trowel is the same thing with a handle for ease of
use. Why complicate things?

Well... I don't know.

I've just watched some videos on plaster skimming and it looks
straightforward. I'm the sort of person who learns by watching, not reading
(other than numeric data like mixing ratios and specs).

Daughter's new room in the old kitchen is completely knackered and *must* be
skimmed, so I might as well have a go on that - the walls are fairly small,
basically flat; looks like 1/4 to 1/2 bucket per wall to me. And I won't
feel bad hacking it off for another go if it goes wrong.

Still dubious about trying a ceiling though - brushing on a bit of artex and
squidging it around seems more withing my capabilities.

If it goes well, I might consider skimming more walls. If not, the Polycell
product looks OK, but it's more expensive at 3 quid/m2 (estimates on
plaster suggest light plaster skimming is in the order of 30-50p per m2 of
material costs and textured lining paper about 1 quid/m2).

Nothing to do now but have a go. Will report back in a couple of weeks or
so.

Cheers

Tim

Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound having
removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish plaster
be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

or

b) When it's dried?

Ta

Tim

I've just watched some videos on plaster skimming and it looks
straightforward. I'm the sort of person who learns by watching, not reading
(other than numeric data like mixing ratios and specs).

Daughter's new room in the old kitchen is completely knackered and *must* be
skimmed, so I might as well have a go on that - the walls are fairly small,
basically flat; looks like 1/4 to 1/2 bucket per wall to me. And I won't
feel bad hacking it off for another go if it goes wrong.

Still dubious about trying a ceiling though - brushing on a bit of artex and
squidging it around seems more withing my capabilities.

If it goes well, I might consider skimming more walls. If not, the Polycell
product looks OK, but it's more expensive at 3 quid/m2 (estimates on
plaster suggest light plaster skimming is in the order of 30-50p per m2 of
material costs and textured lining paper about 1 quid/m2).

Nothing to do now but have a go. Will report back in a couple of weeks or
so.

Cheers

Tim

Just do it!.. Its not rocket science at all .. just let the plaster know
that YOU are in charge of it, and not the other way around)..

Best tip is to get a good labourer .. one who can mix, clear up, wash
your tools and make tea)

Jobs a good 'un)....
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound having
removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish plaster
be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

or

b) When it's dried?

Both -- the PVA is performing two or three roles.

Firstly, it is stabalising the surface. For this, you dilute it
something like 1:5 with water, so it soaks into the surface and
binds it all together. You wait for this to dry.

Second, it's gluing the plaster to the wall -- finish coat doesn't
have much in the way of bonding about it, and if the underlaying
coat isn't something which the fine plaster will soak into, then
you'll need a glue to stick it on. For this, use PVA diluted 1:3
with water, and plaster onto it whilst still tacky. (It will
probably have dried by the time you finish getting the plaster on,
but that doesn't matter as the moisture in the plaster will wet
it enough to be tacky again.)

Thirdly, the PVA coats stop the underlaying layer sucking too
much water out of the plaster before it gets a chance to set.

Sometimes, I just do one PVA coat rather than the two.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound having
removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish plaster
be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

or

b) When it's dried?

Both -- the PVA is performing two or three roles.

Firstly, it is stabalising the surface. For this, you dilute it
something like 1:5 with water, so it soaks into the surface and
binds it all together. You wait for this to dry.

Second, it's gluing the plaster to the wall -- finish coat doesn't
have much in the way of bonding about it, and if the underlaying
coat isn't something which the fine plaster will soak into, then
you'll need a glue to stick it on. For this, use PVA diluted 1:3
with water, and plaster onto it whilst still tacky. (It will
probably have dried by the time you finish getting the plaster on,
but that doesn't matter as the moisture in the plaster will wet
it enough to be tacky again.)

Thirdly, the PVA coats stop the underlaying layer sucking too
much water out of the plaster before it gets a chance to set.

Sometimes, I just do one PVA coat rather than the two.


Cool - thanks Andrew - very precise instructions

Cheers

Tim

PS

One of the plastering vids on the internet showed the bloke rollering the
PVA on. Wasn't clear whether he left it to dry though.

Tim S wrote:
Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

ARWadsworth wrote:
"Tim S" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver
I just did - that looks very interesting. Have you used it before Adam?

If it sticks well, and is stable, that could be just the job. I could
use it
on the walls too instead of lining paper. In most places the plasters
sound - but as rough as a hedgehog's arse.

Cheers

Tim
I have not used it but friends of mine have. I will take some pictures of
the finished surface if you want. It did take a bit of time to sand down.

Adam


IME you really can't get a smooth finish without a trowel of some kind,
and the "SmartSmoother" seems to be just another version of that. A
standard plastering trowel is the same thing with a handle for ease of
use. Why complicate things?

Well... I don't know.

I've just watched some videos on plaster skimming and it looks
straightforward. I'm the sort of person who learns by watching, not reading
(other than numeric data like mixing ratios and specs).

Daughter's new room in the old kitchen is completely knackered and *must* be
skimmed, so I might as well have a go on that - the walls are fairly small,
basically flat; looks like 1/4 to 1/2 bucket per wall to me. And I won't
feel bad hacking it off for another go if it goes wrong.

Still dubious about trying a ceiling though - brushing on a bit of artex and
squidging it around seems more withing my capabilities.

If it goes well, I might consider skimming more walls. If not, the Polycell
product looks OK, but it's more expensive at 3 quid/m2 (estimates on
plaster suggest light plaster skimming is in the order of 30-50p per m2 of
material costs and textured lining paper about 1 quid/m2).

Nothing to do now but have a go. Will report back in a couple of weeks or
so.

Cheers

Tim

As a beginner, you can make the whole job much easier by using Artex
powder (or Gyproc joint filler) instead of plaster. I still find plaster
on a ceiling difficult to work with because I'm not fast enough, and
spend most of the time stopping it falling on the floor. I've finally
graduated to plaster on walls though :-)

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Warning - I'm going say highly unfashionable things:

Having stripped some ceilings, I need a plan on making them look good
again.

Skimming with plaster is out of the question (no money to get it done,
and
I'm sure I can't manage to DIY it; walls yes, ceiling no).

I don't want to paper it again as it's also a fiddly job upside down and
it'll fall off anyway in the kitchen, with the steam from cooking.

So that last logical course of action is artex, with a weak texture,
like "broken leather", which is reasonably inoffensive, and paints and
cleans well.

But, before I go and order a load of bags, is there anything else I might
consider? eg is "artex" basically one product, or are there loads of
makes
and types of similar stuff, but some are better than others? I basically
want "whipped cream" that "sticks like sh*t" and stays that way forever.

I assume it's best to PVA first, if the substrate has flaky bits?

Cheers

Tim

Have a look at Polycell SmoothOver

Adam

But first have a google to see if you can find anyone that has had success
using it and would recommend it.

I.e.

http://tinyurl.com/dfz7ol

http://tinyurl.com/d3232b

Stuart Noble wrote:
Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:

Can't you whack up taper-edged plasterboard, tape, fill and sand,
instead?

No - too much work[1] - also been done once already a couple of decades
back. I'm happy with an "artex" type textu I don't care about
fashion -
just seeing if it's all the same or if a particular product is better
than
the others - never done "artex" before.

[1] Already got too much to do ;-

Cheers

Tim

Skimming a ceiling that's already fairly flat is actually pretty easy if
you use Artex instead of plaster. Very forgiving stuff that you can
trowel and re-trowel for as long as you need. Working overhead is
exhausting though

To be fair, the first thing I ever skimmed was a ceiling, and it was not
that hard - at least to get a finish that looked better than artex.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim S wrote:
Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound having
removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish plaster
be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

Covering artex is what plasterers refer to as a "glue and set" IIUC.
Basically roller on a coat of dilute PVA, and then plaster while it is
still wet.

or

b) When it's dried?

Only if it badly needs stabilising first and you need to PVA twice.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Tim S wrote:
Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound having
removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish plaster
be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

Covering artex is what plasterers refer to as a "glue and set" IIUC.
Basically roller on a coat of dilute PVA, and then plaster while it is
still wet.

IME PVA serves no purpose other than to seal a porous surface. Plaster
sticks pretty well to Artex, as it does to plastic buckets and other
seemingly unsuitable surfaces.

or

b) When it's dried?

Only if it badly needs stabilising first and you need to PVA twice.

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

John Rumm wrote:
Tim S wrote:
Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound
having removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish
plaster be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

Covering artex is what plasterers refer to as a "glue and set" IIUC.
Basically roller on a coat of dilute PVA, and then plaster while it is
still wet.

IME PVA serves no purpose other than to seal a porous surface. Plaster
sticks pretty well to Artex, as it does to plastic buckets and other
seemingly unsuitable surfaces.


Might be getting a bit of the old chinese whispers he I'm not covering
artex - I'm looking to flatten damaged and part-painted walls and ceiling
using either plaster or artex (unfashionable I know!)

But the advice is useful - ta. Just didn't want you all wasting time helping
me to cover up lumpy artex, as I don't actually have any

Given the state of the walls (bare plaster, some painted and sound and some
painted and flaky) a good dose of PVA as a stabiliser for the powdery and
flaky bits seems in order - as that's about half the wall, I guess I might
as well just splat it on everywhere for good measure.

Cheers

Tim

Stuart Noble wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Tim S wrote:
Quick stupid question:

If sealing powdery and/or flaky painted walls (but basically sound
having
removed most of the offending loose bits) with PVA, should finish
plaster
be applied:

a) Whilst the PVA is tacky;

Covering artex is what plasterers refer to as a "glue and set" IIUC.
Basically roller on a coat of dilute PVA, and then plaster while it is
still wet.

IME PVA serves no purpose other than to seal a porous surface. Plaster
sticks pretty well to Artex, as it does to plastic buckets and other
seemingly unsuitable surfaces.

Depends on what the artex has been painted with, and also what pattern
it is.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim S wrote:

But the advice is useful - ta. Just didn't want you all wasting time helping
me to cover up lumpy artex, as I don't actually have any

yet ;-)

Given the state of the walls (bare plaster, some painted and sound and some
painted and flaky) a good dose of PVA as a stabiliser for the powdery and
flaky bits seems in order - as that's about half the wall, I guess I might
as well just splat it on everywhere for good measure.

Beware if you leave the plaster too shiny it can be a paint getting
emulsion to stick.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/