Yet another...



Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic
politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.


==Draughtproofing==
Draughtproofing is an easy minimum cost way to save energy in old
houses. Self adhesive foam strip, profiled rubber strip and brush
strip are all effective. Low cost self adhesive foams tend to have
short life, but still save money. Draughtproof all 4 edges of doors,
windows and letterbox.



==Insulation==
===Cavity wall insulation===
Make sure you've got it, if you have cavity walls of a suitable type
(rattrap bond and rubble walls should ''not'' be cavity filled.)
Grants are widely available. The increased cost to heat a house for
several years without [[insulation]] is greater than the cost of the
insulation.


===Loft insulation===
Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve
payback.

Where goods are stored in the loft, boxed items trap air and thus have
some insulating value.


===Solid wall insulation===
Non-cavity walls can have [[insulation]] applied to the inner or outer
surface. The cost and work involved are of course greater than cavity
fill.

There are 3 ways to fit interior insulation.
# Timber battens, insulation between, plasterboard, skim with plaster
# Solid sheet insulation, plasterboard, skim
# Solid sheet insulation with a hard cement front surface, skim

Exterior insulation usually consists of solid sheet insulation, with
EML screwed in place over it, then rendered with cement mortar.
Insulating render is an alternative option with lower insulation
levels.

For the financially struggling, its possible to insulate walls for £2
where appearance doesn't matter. Cardboard or narrow card boxes
brushed with borax solution are held in place with wallpaper adhesive.


===Underfloor insulation===
Some people retrofit insulation under suspended timber floors and
concrete floors. Both involve taking the whole floor up, so are only
occasionally practical. The saving can be significant over time, if
the floor had to come up anyway. If not, there's a lot of input to pay
back.


==Windows==
===Double glazing===
Retrofitting double glazing usually fails to pay its costs back. Also
it incurs the additional cost (and energy use) of replacing failed
sealed glazing units.


===Secondary glazing===
* can pay back
* can cause rot of timber windows
* Acrylic secondary glazing eventually deteriorates, unlike glass.
* Secondary glazing starts at about £6 a window using plastic film
glazing. This lasts a couple of years if not abused, but is very
vulnerable to kids.
* Polythene sheet costs less than £1 a window, but isn't clear and
doesn't shrink flat with a hairdryer. It does not look good.


===Sash windows===
Sliding sash windows can be draughty. A few types of draughtproofing
can be fitted.

A favoured method is to remove the sliding sash, route a groove around
its perimeter and insert a thin brush strip. This works well and stops
rattles too, though it does make the window slide less freely. One
alternative product used in the same way is a simple flexible plastic
strip.

The cheapest method is to apply sellotape all along the gap where sash
meets frame. Don't forget the gap where the 2 sashes meet.


===Leaded lights===
Lead is an excellant thermal conductor, leaded windows have lots of
it, and the design of these windows often leads to draughts. Secondary
glazing dramatically improves the performance of these windows.

===Curtains===
Heavy curtains help reduce heat loss at night.


===Metal windows===
The steel frames conduct heat out of the building. Secondary glazing
is beneficial.

If a steel window doesn't close properly, excess paint build up is
often the cause. Crittall steel windows were only designed to tolerate
upto 3 layers of paint, and most are now old enough to have a good
deal more than that on them.

Damaged windows that don't align properly can be draughtproofed by
applying silicone, placing polythene sheet over the silicone to
prevent it sticking to the opening sash, and closing the window. The
sealant is thus moulded in situ to block any gaps.


==Heating==
===Room stat===
There are some heating systems around with no room thermostat! if you
can't find a room stat, you need one.


===Boiler===
Some old boilers used cast iron heat exchangers. These exchangers are
horribly inefficient and should be replaced.

The cost versus saving case is less clear cut for the more common old
boilers with pressed metal exchangers. Modern boilers often have much
shorter lives and higher repair costs, offsetting quite a lot of fuel
saving.

Boiler efficiency and maximum heating system output both depend on the
temperature of the primary heating water circuit, which is usually
controlled by a thermostat on the boiler. Reducing this temperature
reduces max system heat output, but improves efficiency. The
thermostat on the boiler can be turned down in milder weather, and up
again in cold times.


===Programmable room stat===
These save money if you use them to heat the house to a lower temp for
part of the day. if you don't, they won't save a thing.

===TRVs===
TRVs improve the room by room thermal control, shaving costs. Despite
the name they are only partially thermostatic, and offer improvement
rather than complete control. Heating systems should have a TRV on all
radiators except one.

===Turn radiators off===
Turn off radiators in spare rooms etc

===Room programmers & thermostats===
Controlling the timing of heating or the temperature indiviually for
each room trims waste further. However its not trivial to fit such
control systems, and not many DIYers do so.

===Electric heating===
This costs much more than mains gas to run.

===Clothes===
Wearing clothes saves energy. Wearing additional clothes saves more
energy. It seems obvious, but does get overlooked.


==Lighting==
Replacing filament with [[CFL]] saves money - not everyone likes them
though. Ignore the claimed equivalents on the packet, 4x is a more
realistic rule of thumb, with 3x for reflector types.

Where appearance doesn't matter, eg for garages, linear fluorescent is
the most energy efficient of all domestic lighting types. The longer
the tubes, the more efficient.

Halogen downlighting is a particularly energy hungry type of domestic
lighting. Energy use can be cut by a fator of 10x by changing to CFL
lights, not using them as downlighting.

The appearance of halogen can be retained to a fair extent by using 5w
or 10w halogen spotlights and adding concealed CFL or linear
fluorescent lighting.

A lot of 500w halogen outdoor lighting can have the bulbs replaced
with 150w ones.

[[Dimmed PIR Lights|Dimming PIR fittings]] waste thousands of pounds.
See [[Dimmed PIR Lights]]

A switchbank can much reduce lighting cost in many cases.

Dimmers only work with filament lamps, and produce little saving
compared to full brightness, and waste energy compared to switching
less total bulb power on.


==Kitchen==
===Dishwasher===
Packing the machine full before use reduces frequency of run and total
energy use. Its quite common to see machines run when they could have
twice as much in them and still clean everything. A full machine costs
half as much per week to run, and the machine lasts much longer.

If you use a high temperature wash, a lower temp wash program saves
energy.


===Washing machine===
40C washes use less energy than hotter programs, but machines do need
at least an occasional hot wash to clean the machine. Pongs result
otherwise.

Washing below 40 isn't recommended, muck builds up and pong eventually
takes over. Buying a new machine because you used cool washes is not
energy efficiency!

An occasional boil wash with citric acid helps keep the machine clean,
prolonging is useful life. For maximum effectiveness, when the water
in the tub has reached close to boiling, switch machine off and leave
overnight. Complete the wash program in the morning.

Users of economy 7 type schemes may find the washing machine too noisy
to run at night on half price leccy. This is often solvable by fitting
noise reduction to the machine.


===Tumble drier===
Most of the energy use of tumble driers can be avoided with this
[[Clothes Dryer]]

Drying clothes on a line outdoors costs nothing in summer.


===Oven===
Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's
ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time.
I've never found any downside to this.



===Hob===
Use lids on pans, turning the gas down very low. Once water is at
boiling point, its impossible to make foods cook any faster. Its
common to see people using over 10x as much gas as is needed to cook
the food.

Note that all the food must be covered by water or some won't cook so
quickly. Cooking on high heat causes the water level in the pan to
fall, resulting in slowed cooking if anything less than high heat is
used to maintain steam above the water. This leads some to mistakenly
think if they reduce the heat their food wont cook as quickly.

On high setting, a lot of the flame's heat passes right by the pan. On
a low setting, heat transfer is efficient.

Glass plates can be used on pans that don't have glass lids. They make
the food visible, and are the right shape to return the steam
condensate back to the food. Glass pans make it easier to see that the
food is still boiling, but not too vigorously.

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.



===Microwave===
Vegetables can be microwaved instead of boiled, giving better flavour,
less loss of nutrients, quicker cooking and much less energy use. Add
1tb of butter & water to the veg, cover, shake to mix, and nuke.

Soups that were traditionally cooked for an hour plus can usually be
cooked much quicker in the microwave, with better flavour. Also many
soups only need some of the ingredients cooking, and others (eg tinned
ingredients) can be added after the cooking.

Potato skin should not be eaten if cooked in a microwave, as it doesnt
get enough time to fully neutralise the toxins.

A microwave & convection combi cooker can cook with both methods at
once. This can produce oven like results with a fraction of the
cooking time and energy use.



===Extractor fan===
Kitchen extractor fans can throw a fair bit of heat away. They reduce
the sticky grease that's caused by boiling food on the hob - so
there's no point using them in winter when only the oven's on. Use the
minimum fan speed required to remove most of the steam.

Using low hob power with lids eliminates most of the kitchen grease
formation.


===Kettle===
Old non-jug kettles waste energy by boiling more water than is often
needed.

Boiling the exact amount of water needed reduces energy use. This is
hard to judge but easy to measure. A kettle uses around half as much
energy as a microwave if the exact amount of water is boiled.


===Bulk cooking===
If keen to save energy, cooking lots of servings at once and freezing
uses less energy per meal. The savings are even greater with baby
meals, which are pricey in jars, considering the content.

===Low energy cooking===
A few methods can be used by people really determined to save energy.

There are many hot dishes that require little or no cooking. Short
order cooking is the name of the art of creating good quality dishes
very quickly.

Haybox cookery produces slow cooked meals using only enough power to
heat them up.

Thermos cooking is the modern version of the haybox. Soups can be put
in a thermos uncooked, and be ready by lunch time. The small capacity
of thermoses is a major limitation though.



===Freezer===
On some freezers a non-obvious fault makes the compressor run
continuously. This increases electricity consumption to in the region
of £50-£70 a year, or upto £200 a year for freezers decades old. At
£500-£2000 per decade its cheaper to buy a new one. Its caused by
partial loss of coolant, and can happen at any time to any freezer.

Occasionally people have stuck polystyrene foam insulation over the
outside of their freezer to cut energy consumption even further. This
does work, and is sometimes considered by people running a very small
offgrid power system.

Old freezers from the 1970s consume enough extra power to cost more
even if they were free.



==Electricity meter==
A power monitoring meter makes people aware of what is using how much,
and this usually results in painless energy reductions. There are 2
types of meter. One indicates total house power consumption. The other
monitors the power use over time of one appliance or one lead. Savings
usually pay for the meter cost.



==Computer==
A desktop PC may use 70w and its monitor 30-70w, versus a laptop's 20w
(approx variable figures). If a machine's in use 24/7, the difference
between the 2 is around £50 per year. Whether its worth moving over to
a laptop depends on the laptop cost.

Desktop computer power supplies often have poor efficiency due to cost
cutting. High efficiency power supplies for use in desktop machines
are available.


==TV & Monitor==
LCD monitors use less power than CRTs. However its not enough saving
to offset the cost of replacing them, or the embodied energy.

Plasma TVs are power hungry, LCDs use far less.


==Standby power==
Much political mileage has been made of appliances consuming power
while on standby. All consume some, but the quantity and cost of this
power is in most cases tiny. There are occasional exceptions, and if
found such items can be switched fully off when not in use.



==Hot water==
Ensure your cylinder has either a foam coating or a fitted jacket.
With jackets, check for any gaps.

Check for dripping or dribbling taps.

Hot water cylinders are usually fitted in restricted spaces, creating
a space around the cylinder where more insulation can be added at no
cost. Packaging peanuts, bubble wrap, jiffy bags, polystyrene foam,
and even screwed up paper all trap air and provide insulation. Ensure
you don't cover the electrical lead to an immersion heater.


==Shower==
Use a lower water flow. Turn off booster pumps. If necessary, turn
water off while soaping.

link to tenagers taking forever
[how to stop teenagers taking forever in the shower]


==Baths==
4-6" of water was standard war time practice, and it does the job.


==Batteries==
Batteries are highly inefficient ways to store energy.

Using rechargeable batteries gives a good saving on a lot of battery
appliances. A £10 set of NiMH batteries with charger can achieve
500-1000 charge cycles, replacing anything up to 1000 batteries.
That's a cost equivalent to 1p per dry battery.

Rechargeables aren't well suited to all tasks, as they tend to self
discharge when sitting unused.

Running battery items from a wallwart wipes out almost all the run
cost of batteries.


==Prices==
Finally, check youre getting the best deal on power.


==See Also==
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/01/
are_you_paying_too_much_for_ga.html Are you being charged triple for
your gas?]
* [[Special:Allpages|Wiki Contents]]
* [[Special:Categories|Wiki Subject Categories]]



[[Category:
[[Category:



NT

wrote:
Yet another...

SNIP

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

Confucius say "woman who cook potato's and peas in same pot most unhygenic".


What about pressure cookers? Much more efficient for lots of stuff.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

wrote in message
...
Yet another...

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic
politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.


It is now that companies supplying it are out to make big money!
With the use of energy saving products this has really hit the profits
of some companies so they have increased the prices to meet their
projected income targets. Also to keep shareholders happy.


==Draughtproofing==

Causes condensation.

==Insulation==
===Cavity wall insulation===
Make sure you've got it, if you have cavity walls of a suitable type

If you do not have all your walls inspected this can lead to major
damp problems as the insulation retains moisture!

===Loft insulation===
Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve
payback.

Not that good at saving money is it! Payback is in about 10 years.

Where goods are stored in the loft, boxed items trap air and thus have
some insulating value.

No that is wrong! Why do modern houses have vents that take
outside air in to a loft then - as part of building regulations?


==Solid wall insulation===

Waste of time and effort. Causes huge redecorating costs.


===Underfloor insulation===

Waste of time and money.


==Windows==
===Double glazing===

Well worth the money! With new glass coatings it keeps a room warmer.

===Secondary glazing===
* never pays back
* will cause rot of timber windows
* Acrylic secondary glazing eventually deteriorates, unlike glass.

This is a waste of time.

===Sash windows===

Fit double glazing.

===Leaded lights===

Fit double glazing.

===Curtains===
Heavy curtains help reduce heat loss at night.

No they don't, unless you glue the edges around the window frame!
Air circulates around them.


===Metal windows===
The steel frames conduct heat out of the building. Secondary glazing
is beneficial.

Wrong! Heat is conducted from the building, a bit of plastic
sheet willnot stop that.

==Heating==
===Room stat===
There are some heating systems around with no room thermostat! if you
can't find a room stat, you need one.

Not always, it depends on the heating and insulations used.


===Boiler===
Some old boilers used cast iron heat exchangers. These exchangers are
horribly inefficient and should be replaced.

No they are not, I would challenge you to put your hand in a heat
exchanger and fire up the boiler.


===Programmable room stat===
These save money if you use them to heat the house to a lower temp for
part of the day. if you don't, they won't save a thing.

WRONG!

===TRVs===

They are of no benefit, it depends how your heating is zoned, your
insulation methods and where thermostats are.

===Turn radiators off===
Turn off radiators in spare rooms etc

NO! This can mean that you get condensation.


===Room programmers & thermostats===
Controlling the timing of heating or the temperature indiviually for
each room trims waste further. However its not trivial to fit such
control systems, and not many DIYers do so.


That is a stupid idea and very expensive to fit.

===Electric heating===
This costs much more than mains gas to run.

Probably not now after the 220% increase in British Gas costs over the
last 5 years. Customers are stupid enough to stay with them!!!

===Clothes===
Wearing clothes saves energy. Wearing additional clothes saves more
energy. It seems obvious, but does get overlooked.

No it doesn't, if I put my coat on now it will not cost me any less for gas.

==Lighting==
Replacing filament with [[CFL]] saves money -

It doesn't because the companies INCREASE prices to meet projected
income figures. For example, I used to pay 9p per unit for electric, two
years later it is 14p per unit! That is because demand fell and companies
still wanted the same income.


==Kitchen==
===Dishwasher===

Water and a sink! Saves a fortune.

===Washing machine===
40C washes use less energy than hotter programs, but machines do need
at least an occasional hot wash to clean the machine. Pongs result
otherwise.

Washing below 40 isn't recommended, muck builds up and pong eventually
takes over. Buying a new machine because you used cool washes is not
energy efficiency!


Oh how wrong you are again, mine washes at 30degrees perfectly well.


==Tumble drier===
Most of the energy use of tumble driers can be avoided with this
[[Clothes Dryer]]

Drying clothes on a line outdoors costs nothing in summer.

You are really sounding thick now!

===Oven===
Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's
ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time.
I've never found any downside to this.

I would but mine will burn the food doing this. That means wasted
energy and cost of replacement.


===Hob===
Use lids on pans, turning the gas down very low.

Don't use gas. Putting lids on can cause foods or sauces to be too
concentrated. It also causes condensation problems.

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

No they can't.

===Microwave===
Vegetables can be microwaved instead of boiled, giving better flavour,
less loss of nutrients, quicker cooking and much less energy use. Add
1tb of butter & water to the veg, cover, shake to mix, and nuke.

Completely ruins the flavour. A microwave used 10 times the power
of an electric ring, so it's cheaper to cook them as normal.

Potato skin should not be eaten if cooked in a microwave, as it doesnt
get enough time to fully neutralise the toxins.

No one I know has ever been poisoned or killed.

A microwave & convection combi cooker can cook with both methods at
once. This can produce oven like results with a fraction of the
cooking time and energy use.

No it doesn't!!!!! Look at the values.

===Extractor fan===
Kitchen extractor fans can throw a fair bit of heat away. They reduce
the sticky grease that's caused by boiling food on the hob - so
there's no point using them in winter when only the oven's on. Use the
minimum fan speed required to remove most of the steam.

Using low hob power with lids eliminates most of the kitchen grease
formation.

WRONG, it tkes steam away and reduces condensation and mould.

===Kettle===
Old non-jug kettles waste energy by boiling more water than is often
needed.

How do you know how much water I want!

===Bulk cooking===
If keen to save energy, cooking lots of servings at once and freezing
uses less energy per meal. The savings are even greater with baby
meals, which are pricey in jars, considering the content.


RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH!!! No wonder people are fat today.

===Low energy cooking===
A few methods can be used by people really determined to save energy.

Why bother?

===Freezer===
On some freezers a non-obvious fault makes the compressor run
continuously.

All fridges and freezers are fitted with a thermal cut-out, so this hasn't
happened since the 80's.

==Electricity meter==
A power monitoring meter makes people aware of what is using how much,
and this usually results in painless energy reductions.

No one supplies them in the UK.

==Computer==
A desktop PC may use 70w and its monitor 30-70w, versus a laptop's 20w
(approx variable figures). If a machine's in use 24/7, the difference
between the 2 is around £50 per year. Whether its worth moving over to
a laptop depends on the laptop cost.


So you are not taking everything in to consideration. For example, a
so-called
energy saving bulb will cost less to run but far more to buy!

Desktop computer power supplies often have poor efficiency due to cost
cutting. High efficiency power supplies for use in desktop machines
are available.

Name them ! switching mode power supplies are used which are extremely
efficient compared to an equivalent type built using transformers - if
anyone
was mad enough to try it.

==TV & Monitor==
LCD monitors use less power than CRTs. However its not enough saving
to offset the cost of replacing them, or the embodied energy.

*NO* they do not use less. My 32" LCD uses 180Watts, my old 28" CRT
uses 130W. The same for a 37" LCD, it uses 200Watts.

Plasma TVs are power hungry, LCDs use far less.

Wrong again, they do NOT.


==Standby power==

That depends what you are using. My TV uses 1Watt on standby. My doorbell
transformer uses more than that and is on 24hours!

==Hot water==

I use a combination boiler, no need to store hot water and waste money.


==Shower==
Use a lower water flow. Turn off booster pumps. If necessary, turn
water off while soaping.

Lower water flow means a hotter shower.


==Baths==
4-6" of water was standard war time practice, and it does the job.

No it doesn't, my bath is nearly 3ft deep and gets filled.

==Batteries==
Batteries are highly inefficient ways to store energy.

No they are not or they wouldn't be used. You can recharge normal
batteries now. You have been able to for the last 15 years!

==Prices==
Finally, check youre getting the best deal on power.

Oh you're quick.

==See Also==
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/01/
are_you_paying_too_much_for_ga.html Are you being charged triple for
your gas?]
* [[Special:Allpages|Wiki Contents]]
* [[Special:Categories|Wiki Subject Categories]]


COMPLETELY OUTDATED and bad advice, it must be from WIKI!!!!



[[Category:
[[Category:



NT

James R wrote:
wrote in message
...

Yet another...

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic
politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.


It is now that companies supplying it are out to make big money!

Welcome back Mr Drivel.


NT

wrote in message
...
James R wrote:
wrote in message
...

Yet another...

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic
politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.


It is now that companies supplying it are out to make big money!

Welcome back Mr Drivel.


NT

It is not Drivel but an inbred relative of his who found his way here via
x-postings.

Adam

On 21 Feb, 15:33, Owain wrote:


It's even cheaper if you take your charger to work and recharge
batteries on the work's electricity.

Owain

The old problem - taking chargers to work doesn't save energy - even
if it saves costs. What are we trying to discuss here? Economics or
physics?

Rod

Owain wrote:
wrote:

===Oven===
Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's
ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time.
I've never found any downside to this.

Doesn't work with bread, or things that really do need a *hot* oven.


Actually, it _does_ work with bread, if the bread is put in before it's
fully risen. It will do its final rise as the oven warms up. Baking
times will need to be adjusted, though.

Sheila

wrote:

[...]
Interesting reading.

Re sashes ...
I've had 15 year's life from Acrylic secondary glazing on some large
Victorian sash windows. Been assuming it'd cloud or yellow but
surprisingly the stuff remains crystal clear.
(Wickes)

On 21 Feb 2009 12:16:20 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2009-02-21, wrote:

Potato skin should not be eaten if cooked in a microwave, as it doesnt
get enough time to fully neutralise the toxins.

I would dispute this. Especially since boiling potatoes does not destroy
toxins, either, so if this is true, you shouldn't eat boiled new potatoes
with their skins on.

You shouldn't eat green potatoes, not because the green colour is poisonous
(it isn't - it's cholorophyll) but because potatoes that have been exposed
to light have increased levels of solanine and chaconine.


Huge, should one worry about chip shop chips which are made from
potatoes loaded into the rumbling machine (which might well remove the
green) a sack at a time, and then chipped without further inspection?

Derek

ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote in message
...
James R wrote:
wrote in message
...

Yet another...

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot
topic politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save
energy. It is now that companies supplying it are out to make big
money!

Welcome back Mr Drivel.


NT

It is not Drivel but an inbred relative of his who found his
way here via x-postings.

It's a genetically-engineered super-Drivel, resistant to all strains of
common-sense or reality.

One thing, Dave, about pressure cookers that mithers me.

Now don't get me wrong I think they are great, you cook several things in
one pan for a shorter time.

One very popular make, the first that probably comes to mind if in the UK
( as you are ), used to be made of aluminium - maybe they still are.

Now do I remember reading it years ago about using aluminium pans and the
possible links to altsimers (sp) in later life or is it my imagination? Hope
it is.
I seem to have this fixed in my mind somehow but for years we often used a
pressure cooker, and still have it, though rarely use it.
We use stainless steel pans now most of the time but we don't have an
alternative pressure cooker.

I'm 57 now and of the age where such things are important to me - though if
the link is real it maybe too late after years of use.
My daughter is only 20 though so would welcome any Internet links on the
subject.

Just realised I've top posted - it's my brain, I'm sure there's something
wrong with it.

Am I going up these stairs or going down?

Humour apart, altsimers is a terrible affliction and may we all remain free
of it.

JD


--
The eMail address used in newsgroups is invalid - reply to group only for me
to see.
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
wrote:
Yet another...

SNIP

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

Confucius say "woman who cook potato's and peas in same pot most
unhygenic".


What about pressure cookers? Much more efficient for lots of stuff.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

James R wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yet another...

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic
politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.


It is now that companies supplying it are out to make big money!
With the use of energy saving products this has really hit the profits
of some companies so they have increased the prices to meet their
projected income targets. Also to keep shareholders happy.


==Draughtproofing==

Causes condensation.

==Insulation==
===Cavity wall insulation===
Make sure you've got it, if you have cavity walls of a suitable type

If you do not have all your walls inspected this can lead to major
damp problems as the insulation retains moisture!

Depends on the type of cavity wall fill

===Loft insulation===
Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve
payback.

Not that good at saving money is it! Payback is in about 10 years.

Not if its fitted free it isn't!

Where goods are stored in the loft, boxed items trap air and thus have
some insulating value.

No that is wrong! Why do modern houses have vents that take
outside air in to a loft then - as part of building regulations?

Whether the vents are fitted or not, boxes will have some form
of insulation value

==Solid wall insulation===

Waste of time and effort. Causes huge redecorating costs.

Depends on the type of insulation and decoration.

===Underfloor insulation===

Waste of time and money.

Considering heat rises, then in fact it could be more
efficient - thus saving money!

==Windows==
===Double glazing===

Well worth the money! With new glass coatings it keeps a room warmer.

Partly true, but takes many years to reclaim the capital cost in
energy saving.

===Secondary glazing===
* never pays back

True.

* will cause rot of timber windows

How?

* Acrylic secondary glazing eventually deteriorates, unlike glass.

True - but as glass is classed as a fluid (look it up) then that
will eventually sink to the bottom.

This is a waste of time.

===Sash windows===

Fit double glazing.

No capital cost saving unless orginal windows are rotten.

===Leaded lights===

Fit double glazing.

No capital cost saving unless orginal windows are rotten.

===Curtains===
Heavy curtains help reduce heat loss at night.

No they don't, unless you glue the edges around the window frame!
Air circulates around them.

If properly fitted (without the glue :-) ) then thet will
*help*, not stop, but help.

===Metal windows===
The steel frames conduct heat out of the building. Secondary glazing
is beneficial.

Wrong! Heat is conducted from the building, a bit of plastic
sheet willnot stop that.

In this case, properly fitted secondary double glazing can be of
benefit - and I mean units.

==Heating==
===Room stat===
There are some heating systems around with no room thermostat! if you
can't find a room stat, you need one.

Not always, it depends on the heating and insulations used.

If no room stat is used, how do you stop the boiler overheating
those rooms?

===Boiler===
Some old boilers used cast iron heat exchangers. These exchangers are
horribly inefficient and should be replaced.

No they are not, I would challenge you to put your hand in a heat
exchanger and fire up the boiler.

It depends on what the OP means by inefficient surely?

===Programmable room stat===
These save money if you use them to heat the house to a lower temp for
part of the day. if you don't, they won't save a thing.

WRONG!

Please explain your answer to this.

===TRVs===

They are of no benefit, it depends how your heating is zoned, your
insulation methods and where thermostats are.

Again, please explain your answer to this - as a TRV do save fuel.

===Turn radiators off===
Turn off radiators in spare rooms etc

NO! This can mean that you get condensation.

Please explain. Your reply suggests you know little of the causes
of condensation!

===Room programmers & thermostats===
Controlling the timing of heating or the temperature indiviually for
each room trims waste further. However its not trivial to fit such
control systems, and not many DIYers do so.


That is a stupid idea and very expensive to fit.

The idea is good - but as you say, expensive.

===Electric heating===
This costs much more than mains gas to run.

Probably not now after the 220% increase in British Gas costs over the
last 5 years. Customers are stupid enough to stay with them!!!

Please explain both your answers to this. As a matter of interest,
the gas savings are minimal between the various companies after the
savings on the initial change.

===Clothes===
Wearing clothes saves energy. Wearing additional clothes saves more
energy. It seems obvious, but does get overlooked.

No it doesn't, if I put my coat on now it will not cost me any less
for gas.

It will if you have gas heating - and turn the roomstat down to
compensate for the extra hot air you produce.

==Lighting==
Replacing filament with [[CFL]] saves money -

It doesn't because the companies INCREASE prices to meet projected
income figures. For example, I used to pay 9p per unit for electric,
two years later it is 14p per unit! That is because demand fell and
companies still wanted the same income.

So you are inferring that the cost of electricity is based on type
of bulb used and *NOT* an oil crisis?

==Kitchen==
===Dishwasher===

Water and a sink! Saves a fortune.

Agreed

===Washing machine===
40C washes use less energy than hotter programs, but machines do need
at least an occasional hot wash to clean the machine. Pongs result
otherwise.

Washing below 40 isn't recommended, muck builds up and pong eventually
takes over. Buying a new machine because you used cool washes is not
energy efficiency!


Oh how wrong you are again, mine washes at 30degrees perfectly well.

Ours does, but the manufacturer recommends a very hot cleaning wash
every month.

==Tumble drier===
Most of the energy use of tumble driers can be avoided with this
[[Clothes Dryer]]

Drying clothes on a line outdoors costs nothing in summer.

You are really sounding thick now!

Please explain - as what he says is actually true - and the clothes
smell better!

===Oven===
Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's
ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time.
I've never found any downside to this.

I would but mine will burn the food doing this. That means wasted
energy and cost of replacement.

How does an oven "burn" food because it's not preheated - that's
down to your incompetence surely?

===Hob===
Use lids on pans, turning the gas down very low.

Don't use gas. Putting lids on can cause foods or sauces to be too
concentrated. It also causes condensation problems.

Now I know that you are either winding the OP up - or a thick
yourself!

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

No they can't.

Oh yes they can - I do it regularly to save tine and space - but I
know how to cook, unlike you!

===Microwave===
Vegetables can be microwaved instead of boiled, giving better flavour,
less loss of nutrients, quicker cooking and much less energy use. Add
1tb of butter & water to the veg, cover, shake to mix, and nuke.

Completely ruins the flavour. A microwave used 10 times the power
of an electric ring, so it's cheaper to cook them as normal.

If use properly, there is no flavour difference - and it really does
save energy because of the way it cooks.

Potato skin should not be eaten if cooked in a microwave, as it doesnt
get enough time to fully neutralise the toxins.

No one I know has ever been poisoned or killed.

Now the OP is talking like a potato head!

A microwave & convection combi cooker can cook with both methods at
once. This can produce oven like results with a fraction of the
cooking time and energy use.

No it doesn't!!!!! Look at the values.

Please explain!

===Extractor fan===
Kitchen extractor fans can throw a fair bit of heat away. They reduce
the sticky grease that's caused by boiling food on the hob - so
there's no point using them in winter when only the oven's on. Use the
minimum fan speed required to remove most of the steam.

Using low hob power with lids eliminates most of the kitchen grease
formation.

WRONG, it tkes steam away and reduces condensation and mould.

But you said above that cooking without lids reduces condensation -
make up your bloody mind!!

===Kettle===
Old non-jug kettles waste energy by boiling more water than is often
needed.

How do you know how much water I want!

He doesn't - but you do - and he's correct.

===Bulk cooking===
If keen to save energy, cooking lots of servings at once and freezing
uses less energy per meal. The savings are even greater with baby
meals, which are pricey in jars, considering the content.


RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH!!! No wonder people are fat today.


*TRUE*, *TRUE*, *TRUE* - I do it regularly - as I said, I can cook!

===Low energy cooking===
A few methods can be used by people really determined to save energy.

Why bother?

Apart from energy saving, some types of food taste better believe it
or not!

===Freezer===
On some freezers a non-obvious fault makes the compressor run
continuously.

All fridges and freezers are fitted with a thermal cut-out, so this
hasn't happened since the 80's.

Try saying that to the five year old freezer of mine that had just
that fault three years ago!

==Electricity meter==
A power monitoring meter makes people aware of what is using how much,
and this usually results in painless energy reductions.

No one supplies them in the UK.

Monitors are available - perhaps the OP worded the statement badly!

==Computer==
A desktop PC may use 70w and its monitor 30-70w, versus a laptop's 20w
(approx variable figures). If a machine's in use 24/7, the difference
between the 2 is around £50 per year. Whether its worth moving over to
a laptop depends on the laptop cost.


Possible!

So you are not taking everything in to consideration. For example, a
so-called
energy saving bulb will cost less to run but far more to buy!

Not sure who I'm replying to now - but what a load of ******** with
bulbs now at less the a quid.

Desktop computer power supplies often have poor efficiency due to cost
cutting. High efficiency power supplies for use in desktop machines
are available.

Name them ! switching mode power supplies are used which are
extremely efficient compared to an equivalent type built using
transformers - if anyone
was mad enough to try it.

Go on try it, you seem "mad enough" LOL

==TV & Monitor==
LCD monitors use less power than CRTs. However its not enough saving
to offset the cost of replacing them, or the embodied energy.

*NO* they do not use less. My 32" LCD uses 180Watts, my old 28" CRT
uses 130W. The same for a 37" LCD, it uses 200Watts.

For once you are actually *CORRECT* - give the man a coconut!

Plasma TVs are power hungry, LCDs use far less.

Wrong again, they do NOT.

==Standby power==

That depends what you are using. My TV uses 1Watt on standby. My
doorbell transformer uses more than that and is on 24hours!

Shows how much you actually know about the subject!

==Hot water==

I use a combination boiler, no need to store hot water and waste
money.

Until you try to run the bath, use the washing machine and
dishwasher and wash up at the same time!

==Shower==
Use a lower water flow. Turn off booster pumps. If necessary, turn
water off while soaping.

Lower water flow means a hotter shower.

The theory of the OP is correct, in practice well...

==Baths==
4-6" of water was standard war time practice, and it does the job.

No it doesn't, my bath is nearly 3ft deep and gets filled.

What a hypocrite you are - especially when the OP is correct for
energy saving!

==Batteries==
Batteries are highly inefficient ways to store energy.

No they are not or they wouldn't be used. You can recharge normal
batteries now. You have been able to for the last 15 years!

In practice battery storage is highly inefficient - that's why only
a few vehicles use them. And
it takes a lot of power to charge them - and the original reason for
this post is...?

==Prices==
Finally, check youre getting the best deal on power.

Oh you're quick.

Rather quicker than you methinks. ROTFL

Now I know that I'm bloody bored tonight replying to this load of drivel
(with another load myself) - especially as I have the OP killfiled because
he gets on my wick[i] with some of the stuff that he posts.

Ah well, let's see if aioe lets this post go through without trouble!

Big Grin

Big Grin wrote:
James R wrote:
wrote in message


One HUGE snip
[i]
==Prices==
Finally, check youre getting the best deal on power.

Oh you're quick.

Rather quicker than you methinks. ROTFL

Now I know that I'm bloody bored tonight replying to this load of
drivel (with another load myself) - especially as I have the OP
killfiled because he gets on my wick with some of the stuff that
he posts.
Ah well, let's see if aioe lets this post go through without trouble!

Big Grin


Bloody hell it did, now that's a first for me with this size of post!!


Big Grin

I decided to look it up tonight in Google after my post to dispel or confirm
my 'mind fixture'.

See this
http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/script...?documentID=99

I was sure I was going up the stairs.

JD


--
The eMail address used in newsgroups is invalid - reply to group only for me
to see.
"JDT2Q" wrote in message
...
One thing, Dave, about pressure cookers that mithers me.

Now don't get me wrong I think they are great, you cook several things in
one pan for a shorter time.

One very popular make, the first that probably comes to mind if in the UK
( as you are ), used to be made of aluminium - maybe they still are.

Now do I remember reading it years ago about using aluminium pans and the
possible links to altsimers (sp) in later life or is it my imagination?
Hope it is.
I seem to have this fixed in my mind somehow but for years we often used a
pressure cooker, and still have it, though rarely use it.
We use stainless steel pans now most of the time but we don't have an
alternative pressure cooker.

I'm 57 now and of the age where such things are important to me - though
if the link is real it maybe too late after years of use.
My daughter is only 20 though so would welcome any Internet links on the
subject.

Just realised I've top posted - it's my brain, I'm sure there's something
wrong with it.

Am I going up these stairs or going down?

Humour apart, altsimers is a terrible affliction and may we all remain
free of it.

JD


--
The eMail address used in newsgroups is invalid - reply to group only for
me to see.
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
wrote:
Yet another...

SNIP

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

Confucius say "woman who cook potato's and peas in same pot most
unhygenic".


What about pressure cookers? Much more efficient for lots of stuff.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

JDT2Q wrote:
One thing, Dave, about pressure cookers that mithers me.

Now don't get me wrong I think they are great, you cook several things in
one pan for a shorter time.

One very popular make, the first that probably comes to mind if in the UK
( as you are ), used to be made of aluminium - maybe they still are.

Now do I remember reading it years ago about using aluminium pans and the
possible links to altsimers (sp) in later life or is it my imagination? Hope
it is.
I seem to have this fixed in my mind somehow but for years we often used a
pressure cooker, and still have it, though rarely use it.
We use stainless steel pans now most of the time but we don't have an
alternative pressure cooker.

I'm 57 now and of the age where such things are important to me - though if
the link is real it maybe too late after years of use.
My daughter is only 20 though so would welcome any Internet links on the
subject.

Just realised I've top posted - it's my brain, I'm sure there's something
wrong with it.

Am I going up these stairs or going down?

Humour apart, altsimers is a terrible affliction and may we all remain free
of it.

JD


Many years ago a connection between Altzheimer's and aluminium cooking
pans was suggested. Then dismissed. Quite possibly several times over.
Last time I looked, aluminium pans were in the clear.

The Prestige pressure cookers were aluminium. We had one. And, as a
child, most of the rest of our pans were also aluminium. (Aluminium is
also widely used in commercial kitchens.)

Later, when setting up on my own, I went for a stainless pressure cooker
(Kuhn Rikon) and avoided aluminium, but that was partly because I had a
dishwasher...

Anyway, it was my stepfather (who was not subject to the cookware I grew
up with) who died of Altzheimer's.

And I don't worry about aluminium pans - though the only aluminium
cookware we currently have is hard anodised (and it has been suggested
that avoids the problem - whether or not it exists).

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:49:27 -0000, "JDT2Q" wrote:

One thing, Dave, about pressure cookers that mithers me.

Now don't get me wrong I think they are great, you cook several things in
one pan for a shorter time.

One very popular make, the first that probably comes to mind if in the UK
( as you are ), used to be made of aluminium - maybe they still are.

Now do I remember reading it years ago about using aluminium pans and the
possible links to altsimers (sp) in later life or is it my imagination? Hope
it is.
I seem to have this fixed in my mind somehow but for years we often used a
pressure cooker, and still have it, though rarely use it.
We use stainless steel pans now most of the time but we don't have an
alternative pressure cooker.

I'm 57 now and of the age where such things are important to me - though if
the link is real it maybe too late after years of use.
My daughter is only 20 though so would welcome any Internet links on the
subject.

Just realised I've top posted - it's my brain, I'm sure there's something
wrong with it.

Am I going up these stairs or going down?

Humour apart, altsimers is a terrible affliction and may we all remain free
of it.

JD

You might save a few kwh but I doubt that pressure cookers are cost
efficient if you already have saucepans. Have you looked at the cost
of a pressure cooker? They seem to me to be very expensive.

If cost is a consideration, you can quite easily cook three vegetables
with one pan using steamers, we do.

"Big Grin" wrote in message
...
James R wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yet another...




===Loft insulation===
Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve
payback.

Not that good at saving money is it! Payback is in about 10 years.

Not if its fitted free it isn't!


If you have no loft insulation at all I would expect a payback of 2 to 3
years at most if you have to pay for it installing. Increasing the loft
insulation from 100mm (the old standard) to 270mm (the new standard) depth
will take longer for payback (about 5 to 7 years ISTR) but as Big Grin
points out you may be able to get it fitted for free and the sheds often do
BOGOF on insulation for the DIYers.

Adam

wrote:
Yet another...

latest version, after incorporating much input...


Save Energy


Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot topic
politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save energy.


==Draughtproofing==
Draughtproofing is an easy minimum cost way to save energy in old
houses. Self adhesive foam strip, profiled rubber strip and brush
strip are all effective. Low cost self adhesive foams tend to have
short life, but still save money. Draughtproof all 4 edges of doors,
windows and letterbox.



==Insulation==
===Cavity wall insulation===
Make sure you've got it, if you have cavity walls of a suitable type
(rattrap bond and rubble walls should ''not'' be cavity filled.)
Grants are widely available. The increased cost to heat a house for
several years without [[insulation]] is greater than the cost of the
insulation.


===Loft insulation===
Lots of it. Loft insulation is an especially effective way to achieve
payback.

Where goods are stored in the loft, boxed items trap air and thus have
some insulating value.


===Solid wall insulation===
Non-cavity walls can have [[insulation]] applied to the inner or outer
surface. The cost and work involved are of course greater than cavity
fill.

There are 3 ways to fit interior insulation.
# Timber battens, insulation between, plasterboard, skim with plaster
# Solid sheet insulation, plasterboard, skim
# Solid sheet insulation with a hard cement front surface, skim

Exterior insulation usually consists of solid sheet insulation, with
EML screwed in place over it, then rendered with cement mortar.
Insulating render is an alternative option with lower insulation
levels.

For the financially struggling, its possible to insulate walls for £2
where appearance doesn't matter. Cardboard or narrow card boxes
brushed with borax solution are held in place with wallpaper adhesive.


===Underfloor insulation===
Some people retrofit insulation under suspended timber floors and
concrete floors. Both usually involve taking the whole floor up, so
are only occasionally practical. The saving can be significant over
time, if the floor had to come up anyway. If not, there's a lot of
input to pay back.

In a minority of cases there's a crawl space to enable fitting without
disturbing the floor.

Less effective but still useful methods for draught prone ground floor
floorboards are
* sheet hardwood laid over the floor to block draughts
* carpeting underlay to both draughtproof and insulate.


==Windows==
===Double glazing===
Retrofitting double glazing usually fails to pay its costs back. Also
it incurs the additional cost (and energy use) of replacing failed
sealed glazing units.

However when windows must be replaced for other reasons, choosing
double glazing usually makes sense.


===Secondary glazing===
* can pay back
* can cause condensation & rot of timber windows
* can be applied as opening sheets or non-opening.
* is easily made removable

Types:
* Acrylic secondary glazing eventually deteriorates, unlike glass, but
it can last decades.
* Secondary glazing starts at about £6 a window using a plastic film
glazing kit. This lasts a couple of years if not abused, but its weak
and easily damaged. Holes can be patched, and if necessary the panel
can be retaughtened with a hair dryer.
* Polythene sheet costs less than £1 a window, but isn't fully clear
and doesn't shrink flat with a hairdryer. It does not look good.



===Sash windows===
Sliding sash windows can be draughty. A few types of draughtproofing
can be fitted.

A favoured method is to remove the sliding sash, route a groove around
its perimeter and insert a thin brush strip. This works well and stops
rattles too, though it does make the window slide less freely. One
alternative product used in the same way is a simple flexible plastic
strip.

The cheapest method is to apply sellotape all along the gap where sash
meets frame. Don't forget the gap where the 2 sashes meet.


===Leaded lights===
Lead is an excellant thermal conductor, leaded windows have lots of
it, and the design of these windows often leads to them leaking air as
well. Secondary glazing dramatically improves the performance of these
windows.

===Curtains===
Heavy curtains help reduce heat loss at night by slowing air
circulation past the window. The benefit is not comparable with double
or secondary glazing.

===Blinds===
Roller blinds give the same air slowing effect as curtains. Minimising
the gap between blind and window maximises this effect.

Slatted blinds let a lot more air through.


===Metal windows===
The steel frames conduct heat out of the building. Secondary glazing
is beneficial.

If a steel window doesn't close properly, excess paint build up is
often the cause. Crittall steel windows were only designed to tolerate
upto 3 layers of paint, and most are now old enough to have a good
deal more than that on them.

Damaged windows that don't align properly can be draughtproofed by
applying silicone, placing polythene sheet over the silicone to
prevent it sticking to the opening sash, and closing the window. The
sealant is thus moulded in situ to block any gaps.


==Heating==
===Room stat===
There are some heating systems around with no room thermostat! if you
can't find a room stat, you need one. TRVs are only partially
thermostatic, and can not replace the function of the room stat.


===Boiler===
Some old boilers used cast iron heat exchangers. These exchangers are
horribly inefficient and such boilers should be replaced.

The cost versus saving case is less clear cut for the more common old
boilers with pressed metal exchangers. Modern boilers often have much
shorter lives and higher repair costs, offsetting quite a lot of fuel
saving.

Boiler efficiency and maximum heating system output both depend on the
temperature of the primary heating water circuit, which is usually
controlled by a thermostat on the boiler. Reducing this temperature
reduces max system heat output, but improves efficiency to some
extent. The gain is greater with condensing boilers. The thermostat on
the boiler can be turned down in milder weather, and up again in cold
times. Weather compensation does this automatically, but is not
usually found on domestic heating.


===Programmable room stat===
These save money if you use them to heat the house to a lower temp for
part of the day. If you don't, they won't save a thing.

===TRVs===
TRVs improve the room by room thermal control, shaving costs. Despite
the name they are only partially thermostatic, and offer improvement
rather than complete control. Heating systems should have a TRV on all
radiators except one.

===Turn radiators off===
Turn off radiators in spare rooms etc

===Room programmers & thermostats===
Controlling the timing of heating or the temperature individually for
each room trims waste further. However its not trivial to fit such
control systems, and not many DIYers do so.

===Electric heating===
This costs much more than mains gas to run.

[[electric heating|Storage heating]] on a reduced night time tariff
costs much less than [[electric heating|plug-in heaters]].

With [[electric heating]] there is a big saving to be had by heating 1
or 2 rooms only. With gas central heating on the other hand, heating 1
or 2 rooms electrically may save nothing due to the higher cost of
electric heat.


===Clothes===
Wearing clothes saves energy. Wearing additional clothes saves more
energy. It seems obvious, but is sometimes overlooked.


==Lighting==
Replacing filament with [[CFL]] saves money - not everyone likes them
though. The claimed power equivalents on the packet are misleading
comparisons with softone lamps, not the popular GLS filament lamps.
4x is a more realistic rule of thumb, with 3x for reflector types, and
down to 2x for very compact reflector types where the majority of the
reflector is blocked by the tube.

Where appearance doesn't matter, eg for garages, linear fluorescent is
the most energy efficient of all domestic lighting types. The longer
the tubes, the more efficient.

Halogen downlighting is a particularly energy hungry type of domestic
lighting. Energy use can be cut by a fator of 10x by changing to CFL
lights, and not using them as downlighting.

The appearance of halogen can be retained to a fair extent by using 5w
or 10w halogen spotlights and adding concealed [[CFL]] or linear
[[Fluorescent Lighting|fluorescent lighting]].

A lot of 500w [[halogen]] outdoor lighting can have the bulbs replaced
with 150w ones.

[[Dimmed PIR Lights|Dimming PIR fittings]] waste thousands of pounds.
See [[Dimmed PIR Lights]]

A switchbank can much reduce lighting cost in many cases.

Dimmers only work with filament lamps, and produce little saving
compared to full brightness, and waste energy compared to switching
less total bulb power on.


==Kitchen==
===Dishwasher===
Packing the machine full before use reduces frequency of run and total
energy use. Its quite common to see machines run when they could have
twice as much in them and still clean everything. A full machine costs
half as much per week to run, and the machine lasts much longer.

If you use a high temperature wash, a lower temp wash program saves
energy.


===Washing machine===
40C washes use less energy than hotter programs, but machines do need
at least an occasional hot wash to clean the machine. Pongs result
otherwise.

Washing below 40 isn't recommended, muck builds up and pong eventually
takes over. Some people do this, but buying a new machine because you
used cool washes is not energy efficiency.

An occasional boil wash with [[limescale|citric acid]] helps keep the
machine clean, prolonging is useful life. For maximum effectiveness,
when the water in the tub has reached close to boiling, switch machine
off and leave overnight. Complete the wash program in the morning.

Users of economy 7 type schemes may find the washing machine too noisy
to run at night on half price leccy. This is often solvable by fitting
noise reduction to the machine.


===Tumble drier===
Most of the energy use of tumble driers can be avoided with this
[[Clothes Dryer]]

Drying clothes on a line outdoors costs nothing in summer.


===Oven===
Put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The food's
ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on-time.
This works with all foods, but with fast cooking items it alters the
cooking times a little.



===Hob===
Use lids on pans, turning the gas down very low. Once water is at
boiling point, its impossible to make foods cook any faster. Its
common to see people using over 10x as much gas as is needed to cook
the food.

Note that all the food must be covered by [[water]] or some won't cook
so quickly. Cooking on high heat causes the water level in the pan to
fall, resulting in slowed cooking if anything less than high heat is
used to maintain steam above the water. This leads some to mistakenly
think if they reduce the heat their food won't cook as quickly.

On high setting, a lot of the flame's heat passes right past the pan.
On a low setting, heat transfer is efficient.

Glass plates can be used on pans that don't have glass lids. They make
the food visible, and are the right shape to return the steam
condensate back to the food. Glass pans make it easier to see that the
food is still boiling, but not too vigorously, and glass behaves very
well with low power cooking.

Sometimes 2 foods can be cooked in the one pan together.

Pressure cookers also cook many foods faster than boiling. These work
by cooking at above boiling point.


===Microwave===
Vegetables can be microwaved instead of boiled, giving less loss of
flavour & nutrients, quicker cooking and much less energy use. One way
is to add 1tb of butter & water to the veg, cover, shake to mix, and
nuke.

Soups that were traditionally cooked for an hour plus can usually be
cooked much quicker in the microwave, with better flavour. Also many
soups only need some of the ingredients cooking, and the others (eg
tinned ingredients) can be added after the cooking.

A microwave & convection combi cooker can cook with both methods at
once. This can produce oven like results with a fraction of the
cooking time and energy use.



===Extractor fan===
Kitchen extractor fans can throw a fair bit of heat away. They reduce
the sticky grease that's caused by boiling food on the hob - so
there's no point using them in winter when only the oven's on. Use the
minimum fan speed required to remove most of the steam.

Using low hob power with lids eliminates most of the kitchen grease
formation.


===Kettle===
Old non-jug kettles waste energy by often boiling more water than is
needed.

Boiling the exact amount of water needed reduces energy use. This is
hard to judge but easy to measure. A kettle uses around half as much
energy as a microwave if the exact amount of water is boiled.


===Bulk cooking===
If keen to save energy, cooking lots of servings at once and freezing
uses less energy per meal.


===Low energy cooking===
A few methods can be used by people really determined to save energy.

There are many hot dishes that require little or no cooking. The art
of creating good quality dishes very quickly is called short order
cooking.

Haybox cookery produces slow cooked meals using only enough power to
heat them up. The food is brought to boiling, then buried under hay.
This keeps it hot, like a slow cooker.

Thermos cooking is the modern version of the haybox. Soups can be put
in a thermos boiling hot but uncooked, and be ready by lunch time. The
small capacity of these vacuum flasks is a major limitation though.

Slow cookers can save energy only if they're well insulated.

Steamers avoid heating up a large amount of water.


===Freezer===
On some freezers a non-obvious fault makes the compressor run
continuously. This increases electricity consumption to in the region
of £50-£70 a year, or upto £200 a year for freezers decades old. At
£500-£2000 per decade its cheaper to buy a new one than to use the old
one. This fault is caused by partial loss of coolant, and can happen
at any time to any freezer. Although the coolant can be topped up, if
it leaked once it will again.

Occasionally people have stuck polystyrene foam [[insulation]] over
the outside of their freezer to cut energy consumption even further.
This does work, and is sometimes considered by people running a very
small offgrid power system.

Old freezers from the 1970s consume enough extra power to cost more
than a new freezer, even if they were free.



==Electricity meter==
A power monitoring meter makes people aware of what is using how much,
and this usually results in painless energy reductions. There are 2
types of meter. One indicates total house power consumption. The other
monitors the power use over time of one appliance or one lead. Savings
usually pay for the meter cost.



==Computer==
A desktop PC may use 70w and its monitor 30-70w, versus a laptop's 20w
(approx & variable figures). If a machine's in use 24/7, the
difference between the 2 is around £50 per year. Whether its worth
moving over to a laptop depends on the laptop cost and hours of use,
but usually its not, for cost saving alone.

Most desktop computer power supplies have an efficiency percentage in
the 70s due to cost cutting. More effieicnt power supplies in the 80s
or 90s percent are available for desktop machines.


==TV & Monitor==
LCD monitors often use less power than CRTs, but this isn't always so.
Its not enough saving to offset the cost of replacing them however, or
the embodied energy.

Plasma TVs are much more power hungry than LCD.


==Standby power==
Much political mileage has been made of appliances consuming power
while on standby. All consume some, but the quantity and cost of this
power is in most cases tiny. There are occasional exceptions, and if
found such items can be switched fully off when not in use.



==Hot water==
Ensure your cylinder has either a foam coating or a fitted jacket.
With jackets, check for any gaps.

Check for dripping or dribbling taps.

Hot water cylinders are usually fitted in restricted spaces, creating
a space around the cylinder where more insulation can be added at no
cost. Packaging peanuts, bubble wrap, jiffy bags, [[insulation|
polystyrene foam]], and even screwed up paper all trap air and provide
[[insulation]]. Ensure you don't cover the [[flex|electrical lead]] to
an [[Immersion Heaters|immersion heater]].

See also [[:Categoryomestic Hot Water]]


==Shower==
Use a lower water flow. Turn off booster pumps. If necessary, turn
water off while [[detergent|soaping]].

link to [how to stop teenagers taking forever in the shower]


==Baths==
4-6" of water was standard war time practice, and it does the job.


==Batteries==
Batteries are highly inefficient ways to store energy.

Using rechargeable batteries gives a good saving on a lot of battery
appliances. A £10 set of NiMH batteries with charger can achieve
500-1000 charge cycles, replacing anything up to 1000 batteries.
That's a cost equivalent to 1p per dry battery.

Rechargeables aren't well suited to all tasks, as they tend to self
discharge when sitting unused.

Running battery items from a wallwart wipes out almost all the run
cost of batteries.


==Prices==
Finally, check you're getting the best deal on power.


==See Also==
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/01/
are_you_paying_too_much_for_ga.html Are you being charged triple for
your gas?]
* [[Special:Allpages|Wiki Contents]]
* [[Special:Categories|Wiki Subject Categories]]



[[Category:
[[Category:


NT

In article ,
Rod wrote:
Anyway, it was my stepfather (who was not subject to the cookware I grew
up with) who died of Altzheimer's.

Don't think it actually kills you - you die with it rather than because of
it.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Steve Walker wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote in message
...
James R wrote:
wrote in message
...

Yet another...

Energy is ever more expensive, and its use has become a hot
topic politically. Here are various ways DIYers can save
energy. It is now that companies supplying it are out to make big
money!

Welcome back Mr Drivel.


NT

It is not Drivel but an inbred relative of his who found his
way here via x-postings.

It's a genetically-engineered super-Drivel, resistant to all strains
of common-sense or reality.

I thought that was Dennis?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod wrote:
Anyway, it was my stepfather (who was not subject to the cookware I grew
up with) who died of Altzheimer's.

Don't think it actually kills you - you die with it rather than because of
it.

He couldn't eat, he had no voluntary movement, no obvious signs of
'intelligence' and was in extreme pain (so far as anyone could judge). I
think most people would accept a colloquial definition of it killing
him, albeit a medical person might wish to put 'heart attack while
suffering from Altzheimer's' (or whatever they did write).

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

JDT2Q wrote:
One thing, Dave, about pressure cookers that mithers me.

Now don't get me wrong I think they are great, you cook several
things in one pan for a shorter time.

One very popular make, the first that probably comes to mind if in
the UK ( as you are ), used to be made of aluminium - maybe they
still are.

Mines stainless steel.

Now do I remember reading it years ago about using aluminium pans and
the possible links to altsimers (sp) in later life or is it my
imagination? Hope it is.

Never heard that one.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

eseIn article ,
Rod wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod wrote:
Anyway, it was my stepfather (who was not subject to the cookware I
grew up with) who died of Altzheimer's.

Don't think it actually kills you - you die with it rather than
because of it.

He couldn't eat, he had no voluntary movement, no obvious signs of
'intelligence' and was in extreme pain (so far as anyone could judge).

Not all of these are symptoms of Alzheimer's, though.

I think most people would accept a colloquial definition of it killing
him, albeit a medical person might wish to put 'heart attack while
suffering from Altzheimer's' (or whatever they did write).

I'm not so sure. While generally a disease of old age it's not always so -
and sufferers can live for a very long time.

--
*Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Big Grin" wrote:

True - but as glass is classed as a fluid (look it up) then that
will eventually sink to the bottom.

Glass isn't a fluid and it doesn't flow. That it does is an urban legend
of astonishing durability.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod wrote:
Anyway, it was my stepfather (who was not subject to the cookware I grew
up with) who died of Altzheimer's.

Don't think it actually kills you - you die with it rather than because of
it.

Oh it kills you in the end. After memory goes various things like
noticing you are hungry and thirsty.

Generally about 8 years from first symptoms on average.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Don't think it actually kills you - you die with it rather than
because of it.

Oh it kills you in the end. After memory goes various things like
noticing you are hungry and thirsty.

If you're in that state you'd be in care and I'd hope they'd not let you
starve to death.

Generally about 8 years from first symptoms on average.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Don't think it actually kills you - you die with it rather than
because of it.

Oh it kills you in the end. After memory goes various things like
noticing you are hungry and thirsty.

If you're in that state you'd be in care and I'd hope they'd not let you
starve to death.


They do. You cant force feed someone and putting them on a drip is
expensive and merely prolongs the utter misery. A more and more brain
****s down, something gives. Generally herat falure through deydration.

To be honest, having watched someone go through it all, up to the point
of death, if I ever get diagnosed, I'll ram the car into a bridge instead.


If my mother had been a dog, I'd have put her down out of love and
kindness. You aren't allowed to do that though.

Generally about 8 years from first symptoms on average.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rod wrote:
Anyway, it was my stepfather (who was not subject to the cookware I
grew up with) who died of Altzheimer's.

Don't think it actually kills you - you die with it rather than
because of
it.

Oh it kills you in the end. After memory goes various things like
noticing you are hungry and thirsty.

Generally about 8 years from first symptoms on average.

I think that is about what it took.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

The Medway Handyman wrote:


Never heard that one.


Is Aluminium a risk factor in Alzheimer's Disease?

Aluminium is the third most abundant element in the earth's crust. The
main sources of aluminium in our diet include tea, beer, baked products,
drinking water, toothpaste, aluminium-based antacids, aluminium cookware
and some canned beverages. The average daily intake of aluminium from
food by UK adults is estimated as 3.9mg which is well below
internationally recognised safe limits.

Aluminium uptake from our diets is usually very low, with more than 99%
passing through the digestive system unabsorbed. Absorption increases
significantly in the presence of acidic foods such as orange juice. The
small amount of aluminium that is absorbed into the body is rapidly
excreted by the kidneys in urine except in individuals with impaired
kidney function where aluminium retention within the body is responsible
for dialysis dementia.

Alzheimer's disease is a degenerative condition resulting in dementia,
occurring mainly in the elderly. Aluminium has been suggested as a
possible cause of or risk factor for Alzheimer's Disease due to its
presence in the brains of Alzheimer's Disease patients (specifically
beta-amyloid plaques and neurofibrillary tangles). The proposed link
between dietary aluminium intake and Alzheimer's Disease is still the
subject of considerable debate. No causal relationship has been
established, and accumulation of aluminium in the brain may be a natural
part of the disease process. Recent studies have reported the
identification of various genes associated with the disease, suggesting
that sufferers may have a genetic predisposition to the condition.

Aluminium cookware is generally considered safe to use. But acidic
foods, such as tomatoes and other fruits, should not be cooked in
aluminium pans - particularly those of a lower quality. This is because
aluminium is leached from utensils by acidic foods and this process can
contribute significant quantities of aluminium to the diet. In addition,
aluminium cookware should not be used by kidney dialysis patients or
anyone with renal insufficiency.

http://www.ifr.ac.uk/public/FoodinfoSheets/aluminium.html

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:

The Prestige pressure cookers were aluminium. We had one. And, as a
child, most of the rest of our pans were also aluminium. (Aluminium is
also widely used in commercial kitchens.)

We had one in the past like that, however our current Prestige one is
stainless...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Rod
writes
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Never heard that one.

Is Aluminium a risk factor in Alzheimer's Disease?

.... ...

Aluminium cookware is generally considered safe to use. But acidic
foods, such as tomatoes and other fruits, should not be cooked in
aluminium pans - particularly those of a lower quality. This is because
aluminium is leached from utensils by acidic foods and this process can
contribute significant quantities of aluminium to the diet. In
addition, aluminium cookware should not be used by kidney dialysis
patients or anyone with renal insufficiency.

http://www.ifr.ac.uk/public/FoodinfoSheets/aluminium.html

Or as a container for brewing beer in

--
geoff

wrote:

wrote:
Yet another...

latest version, after incorporating much input...


Save Energy

[...]
NT

'Tis good!.

D.M. Procida wrote:
"Big Grin" wrote:

True - but as glass is classed as a fluid (look it up)
then that will eventually sink to the bottom.

Glass isn't a fluid and it doesn't flow. That it does is an urban
legend of astonishing durability.

Daniele


Daniele,

I read a technical piece on this very subject about 9 months ago which
categorically stated that glass was a very slow moving liquid - but as
usual, I have passed that paper on. I did a very quick google "I'm feeling
lucky" and came up with -
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...ass/glass.html - but there
are also further 'hits' such as -http://www.osgco.com/eigo/e_glassarem.html


And below is the conclusion to the first 'hit'.
Conclusion
There is no clear answer to the question "Is glass solid or liquid?". In
terms of molecular dynamics and thermodynamics it is possible to justify
various different views that it is a highly viscous liquid, an amorphous
solid, or simply that glass is another state of matter which is neither
liquid nor solid. The difference is semantic. In terms of its material
properties we can do little better. There is no clear definition of the
distinction between solids and highly viscous liquids. All such phases or
states of matter are idealisations of real material properties.
Nevertheless, from a more common sense point of view, glass should be
considered a solid since it is rigid according to everyday experience. The
use of the term "supercooled liquid" to describe glass still persists, but
is considered by many to be an unfortunate misnomer that should be avoided.
In any case, claims that glass panes in old windows have deformed due to
glass flow have never been substantiated. Examples of Roman glassware and
calculations based on measurements of glass visco-properties indicate that
these claims cannot be true. The observed features are more easily
explained as a result of the imperfect methods used to make glass window
panes before the float glass process was invented.



Pick the bones out of all that info and decide yourself!

Bloody hell, now I'm getting as bad as *eg* - I must
get out more and finish all those jobs that I have startedf. ROTFL

Big Grin

"Big Grin" wrote:

True - but as glass is classed as a fluid (look it up)
then that will eventually sink to the bottom.

Glass isn't a fluid and it doesn't flow. That it does is an urban
legend of astonishing durability.

I read a technical piece on this very subject about 9 months ago which
categorically stated that glass was a very slow moving liquid - but as
usual, I have passed that paper on.

Glass is generally considered a non-crystalline amorphous solid.

Glass, at temperatures below 270C, cannot be subjected to forces that
would cause it to flow (because those forces will simply cause it to
break).

This really has been debunked time and time again. Ask
alt.folklore.urban, if you don't mind being chased out of the room with
a mound of equations and citations.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D.

D.M. Procida wrote:
"Big Grin" wrote:

True - but as glass is classed as a fluid (look it up)
then that will eventually sink to the bottom.

Glass isn't a fluid and it doesn't flow. That it does is an urban
legend of astonishing durability.

I read a technical piece on this very subject about 9 months ago
which categorically stated that glass was a very slow moving liquid
- but as usual, I have passed that paper on.

Glass is generally considered a non-crystalline amorphous solid.

Glass, at temperatures below 270C, cannot be subjected to forces that
would cause it to flow (because those forces will simply cause it to
break).

This really has been debunked time and time again. Ask
alt.folklore.urban, if you don't mind being chased out of the room
with a mound of equations and citations.

Daniele

Hi Daniele,

I must admit that I disagree with you on that subject - and as I really
replied to a reply in this thread in a moment of complete and utter boredom
(age and retirement does occasionally have its downside) and light
heartedness I really don't wish to get bogged down in any heavy technical
discussions - so shall we agree to disagree?

As for folklore - I've been around long enough to have probably have made
some of that myself in my misspent youth - I was forever having the old
village constable (yep they even had one of those where I grew up) chasing
my proverbial bum - and getting the often much deserved clip around the
lughole of him - ahhhhhh, the memories LOL.

Oh! And by the way, there has often been a great deal of truth in
folklore -- so you never know, the glass in your windows may well drip down
to the bottom in one big amorphous lump in a few millions years. Come back
to the group then and let us all know who was correct. ;-)

All the best

Big Grin

In article , Big Grin wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:
"Big Grin" wrote:

True - but as glass is classed as a fluid (look it up)
then that will eventually sink to the bottom.

Glass isn't a fluid and it doesn't flow. That it does is an urban
legend of astonishing durability.
[...]
discussions - so shall we agree to disagree?

It won't change the fact that he's right and you are wrong.


to the bottom in one big amorphous lump in a few millions years. Come back
to the group then and let us all know who was correct. ;-)

Or you could save time by looking at a piece of volcanic glass a few
million years old, and noticing it still has sharp edges. On a slightly
smaller timescale, you can see sharp engraving on Roman glass in museums.

Huge coughed up some electrons that declared:

On 2009-02-23, Alan Braggins wrote:

Or you could save time by looking at a piece of volcanic glass a few
million years old, and noticing it still has sharp edges. On a slightly
smaller timescale, you can see sharp engraving on Roman glass in museums.

My wife has two pieces of Roman glass (she collects "art glass"). Neither
of them show any evidence of flow, and both are well over 1000 years old.


Not intending to disagree - I don;t know anything about glass flow anyway:
but *what* was all that stuff about in my 5th form physics books, where
they said that glass flow was detectable in stained glass in some older
cathedrals, to quote from memory "glass was found to be a mm or two thicker
at the base than the top after about 900 years".

Curious...

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:

Not intending to disagree - I don;t know anything about glass flow anyway:
but *what* was all that stuff about in my 5th form physics books, where
they said that glass flow was detectable in stained glass in some older
cathedrals, to quote from memory "glass was found to be a mm or two thicker
at the base than the top after about 900 years".

.... and at the sides, and at the top, and and various places in the
middle too... because that's how glass was made in those days.

As I said, it's one of those urban legends that just won't let go.

Daniele

D.M. Procida wrote:

Tim S wrote:

I don't know anything about glass flow anyway:

it's one of those urban legends that just won't let go.

But if you do want to see a very slow liquid "in action" try this

http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/pitchdrop/pitchdrop.shtml

D.M. Procida wrote:
Tim S wrote:

Not intending to disagree - I don;t know anything about glass flow
anyway: but *what* was all that stuff about in my 5th form physics
books, where they said that glass flow was detectable in stained
glass in some older cathedrals, to quote from memory "glass was
found to be a mm or two thicker at the base than the top after about
900 years".

... and at the sides, and at the top, and and various places in the
middle too... because that's how glass was made in those days.

As I said, it's one of those urban legends that just won't let go.

Daniele

Daniele,

So what about the old farmers who were once breeding cows with only three
legs so that they could:

A - Milk them easier.
B - As a safety measure (even had elf and safety in them days) - so that
if they tried to kick the farmer they would fall over.

But as farmers then were losing cash when they sold them (the cows were a
bit short on leather and meat) they returned to breeding four legged ones -
always said farmers were tight fisted!

Now is that an 'urban' or a 'country' legend, or could it even be a bit of
folklore - or even a fact?

By the way, can you get glass wedges anywhere, as I'm stuck for a few to
hold the sagging glass up in one of my windows?

Big Grin