Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.

We have twenty, single-glazed sash windows. I have temporarily put
secondary glazing film on the windows as they are very draughty. That
has made an improvement, but not enough!
The ground floor has a suspended timber floor with approximately 2' of
space underneath except for a small area in the middle of the house
where there is a cellar. It may be my imagination but the cellar seems
to be one of the warmest parts of the house.....
None of the reception or bedrooms have carpets - sanded floorboards
throughout. It looks like previous attempts have been made with
silicone to seal the gaps between the floorboards but this appears to
have disintegrated, presumably due to the movement of the timber
throughout the year. From peering between the gaps between the
floorboards there appears to be no insulation between floorboards and
the ceiling of the room below (or bare earth in the case of the ground
floor).
Both reception and bedrooms have fireplaces; most have a 'flap' on the
fireplace to close the flue, those that don't I have temporarily
blocked with a pillow in a bin bag with a bit of kitchen waste pipe at
the side to provide ventilation.

I realise this house will never be as energy efficient as a modern
house but I desperately need to improve its heat retention. Where am I
likely to be losing the most heat and what can I do about it? I can't
afford to replace the windows. Does anyone have experience of the
relative merits of secondary glazing units versus the brush pile
draughtproofing that you get from the likes of Reddiseals?
What about the floors? What's the best thing to seal the gaps between
the floorboards? Would insulation under the floorboards provide a
significant difference compared to merely sealing between them?
Anything else I should look at?

Many thanks!

Paul

Paul wrote:
Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.

xxxxxxx


Many thanks!

Paul

this house is very similar.

insulating the loft is easy - so do it
insulating the floor of the attic
is easier than insulating the angles of the roof
(and there's less area).

Next draughtproofing - carpets!

Upstairs floors dont need insulation cos theyre inside the house.

But what about the groundfloor floorboards over earth,
and the air bricks under there...
stage 1 is carpets.

I was thinking of putting plastic dampproof over the earth,
or under the floorboards and then kingspan,
but what if someone spills beer or there's another plumbing leak,
wouldnt the water sit on the plastic and rot the floorboards?

I'm in one small bedroom with a fan heater on - ive blocked the chimney.

And yes the cellar is warmer!

thin black work gloves are great too, and a hat...

[g]

Hi folks
Watch out for plastic sheet as secondry glazing on windows. I put some
2mm stuff up for somone recently and after a couple of months it all
started warping. I ended up having to fix extra clips at 6inch
centers to solve the problem, but would only use toughened glass in
the future.
Acrilic NOT silicone sealent works well on floor board gaps 6mm and
below, IMHO dark brown looks best, make sure floor has some external
ventilation though.

On 5 Feb, 15:23, Paul wrote:
Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.

We have twenty, single-glazed sash windows. I have temporarily put
secondary glazing film on the windows as they are very draughty. That
has made an improvement, but not enough!
The ground floor has a suspended timber floor with approximately 2' of
space underneath except for a small area in the middle of the house
where there is a cellar. It may be my imagination but the cellar seems
to be one of the warmest parts of the house.....
None of the reception or bedrooms have carpets - sanded floorboards
throughout. It looks like previous attempts have been made with
silicone to seal the gaps between the floorboards but this appears to
have disintegrated, presumably due to the movement of the timber
throughout the year. From peering between the gaps between the
floorboards there appears to be no insulation between floorboards and
the ceiling of the room below (or bare earth in the case of the ground
floor).
Both reception and bedrooms have fireplaces; most have a 'flap' on the
fireplace to close the flue, those that don't I have temporarily
blocked with a pillow in a bin bag with a bit of kitchen waste pipe at
the side to provide ventilation.

I realise this house will never be as energy efficient as a modern
house but I desperately need to improve its heat retention. Where am I
likely to be losing the most heat and what can I do about it? I can't
afford to replace the windows. Does anyone have experience of the
relative merits of secondary glazing units versus the brush pile
draughtproofing that you get from the likes of Reddiseals?
What about the floors? What's the best thing to seal the gaps between
the floorboards? Would insulation under the floorboards provide a
significant difference compared to merely sealing between them?
Anything else I should look at?

Many thanks!

Paul

Another possible source of heat loss is the walls themselves. My 18th
century stone cottage was refurbished in the 1920's with lathe and
plaster lining added along with suspended wooden floors with extensive
underfloor ventilation. This ventilation then passed up between the
plaster and the stone wall and probably made the house colder than
before the refurbishment !

I took off all the lathe and plaster, insulated and re-lined. Much
warmer - and no mould either.

Rob

In message
,
Paul writes
Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.


We also have a Victorian house. We can mostly keep it warm - warm-ish,
but it's not cheap

We have twenty, single-glazed sash windows. I have temporarily put
secondary glazing film on the windows as they are very draughty. That
has made an improvement, but not enough!
The ground floor has a suspended timber floor with approximately 2' of
space underneath except for a small area in the middle of the house
where there is a cellar. It may be my imagination but the cellar seems
to be one of the warmest parts of the house.....
None of the reception or bedrooms have carpets - sanded floorboards
throughout. It looks like previous attempts have been made with
silicone to seal the gaps between the floorboards but this appears to
have disintegrated, presumably due to the movement of the timber
throughout the year.

I realise this house will never be as energy efficient as a modern
house but I desperately need to improve its heat retention. Where am I
likely to be losing the most heat and what can I do about it?

Loft, walls, doors and windows.

If the loft insulation isn't up to scratch (25 - 30 cm) top it up. Have
a look at grants/deals from the LA or your energy supplier at the most
it will cost is a few hundred.

Walls, almost certainly solid, realistically not much to do about that
that isn't very disruptive.

Windows and doors.

We have secondary glazing (here when we moved in) in a lot of the rooms.
It makes a noticeable comfort difference. The girls bedroom has none is
on a corner with 2 windows and struggles to keep up to temp at times.
Our bedroom has it, has 2 windows and 3 external walls and is more
comfortable. We will add it to the girls room soon.

Curtains. Decent lined curtains make a difference. Don't forget the
doors, esp if glazed. We put a curtain up over the french windows into
the conservatory this year, it has made a noticeable difference in the
sitting room. Ditto the glazed door to the garden from the hallway.

Obviously make sure the doors are draught proofed.

I can't
afford to replace the windows. Does anyone have experience of the
relative merits of secondary glazing units versus the brush pile
draughtproofing that you get from the likes of Reddiseals?
What about the floors? What's the best thing to seal the gaps between
the floorboards? Would insulation under the floorboards provide a
significant difference compared to merely sealing between them?
Anything else I should look at?

Sealing the gaps helps with draughts, carpet are warmer than bare
floors. unconvinced of the benefit of insulating underneath given the
disruption (though I do consider doing the cellar ceiling, which needs
permanent ventilation as it is damp so it's pretty cool down there in
winter.
--
Chris French

Housemartin wrote:

Hi folks
Watch out for plastic sheet as secondry glazing on windows. I put some
2mm stuff up for somone recently and after a couple of months it all
started warping. I ended up having to fix extra clips at 6inch
centers to solve the problem, but would only use toughened glass in
the future.

I had some a good few years ago, and used the magnetic strip
attachment method. It worked very well, and was only scrapped
when I had the windows replaced. What I did notice was that one
batch of sheet was still in excellent condition, whilst the other
had become very brittle.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 5 Feb, 16:23, Paul wrote:
Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.

We have twenty, single-glazed sash windows. I have temporarily put
secondary glazing film on the windows as they are very draughty. That
has made an improvement, but not enough!
The ground floor has a suspended timber floor with approximately 2' of
space underneath except for a small area in the middle of the house
where there is a cellar. It may be my imagination but the cellar seems
to be one of the warmest parts of the house.....
None of the reception or bedrooms have carpets - sanded floorboards
throughout. It looks like previous attempts have been made with
silicone to seal the gaps between the floorboards but this appears to
have disintegrated, presumably due to the movement of the timber
throughout the year. From peering between the gaps between the
floorboards there appears to be no insulation between floorboards and
the ceiling of the room below (or bare earth in the case of the ground
floor).
Both reception and bedrooms have fireplaces; most have a 'flap' on the
fireplace to close the flue, those that don't I have temporarily
blocked with a pillow in a bin bag with a bit of kitchen waste pipe at
the side to provide ventilation.

I realise this house will never be as energy efficient as a modern
house but I desperately need to improve its heat retention. Where am I
likely to be losing the most heat and what can I do about it? I can't
afford to replace the windows. Does anyone have experience of the
relative merits of secondary glazing units versus the brush pile
draughtproofing that you get from the likes of Reddiseals?
What about the floors? What's the best thing to seal the gaps between
the floorboards? Would insulation under the floorboards provide a
significant difference compared to merely sealing between them?
Anything else I should look at?

Many thanks!

Paul

Dear Paul
I endorse most of what has been said to date
In order of priority I suggest
1 draft proofing windows and doors in the external envelope
This can be done with the likes of Reddiseals for sash windows or B &
Q have similar products
It is time consuming but well worth it and a summer job. If the window
sashes are ok decoratively it can be done in about four hours per
window but if you need to paint or otherwise repair it will take
longer
Make sure the sashes fit he frame as ofen one has to plane or add bits
to get the angle right as the house has moved the window out of square
Secondary glazing is helpful but more of a sound reducer

A further option is to renew the sashes with double glazed units and
increase the weights but this is expensive and would not pay back for
many years if ever depending on the capital outlay
It is however much nicer as with the draft proofing you WILL get
condenation and to that end some condensation drains would not go
amiss

2) Roof insulation - 300 mm rockwook minimum properly installed with
ventilated void above and all pipes and tanks protected

3) insulation of the Ground Floor

Difficult but if you are going to do the job right I suggest
plastic dpm on the oversite (to reduce water vapour entry)
good clear sub floor voids
4" Kingspan (TP10 or the like PU) cut to fit the 4" of void between
the joists of the ground floor (your call as to whether to lift all
the boards or crawl under!!!! - Its a no brainer to me to lift the
boards and relay cramped together)
1" or 2" tacked over all the joists from underneath (no choice but to
feed it under and crawl)
All sealed at edges with foam using a proper foam gun
Vapour check on the top of the floor boards with a urethane sealer or
if you have to a polythene sheet under the floor boards over the joist
on the WARM side of the insualtion (not essential as it is foil
backed)

4) Walls
either external or internal

Internal is favourite as Victorian semis are normally nice brick
outside

Be prepared to lose 2.5" of every external wall if you do this
I did it and it was brilliant
I ignored the advice to put on battens as I wanted the space
I took off all architraves, skirtings, picture rails etc and lifted
floor boards at edges
using plasterboard adhesive and a serated trowel prepared the wall and
the 2" TP 10 PU foam sheet of 8 x 4 and fixed it to the wall direct
using 5 No EXTERNAL insluation plastic and stainless steel fixings
designed for the outside insulation
one at four corners and one in centre together with the glue applied
verically on one surface and horizontally on the other like a tile.
Did the same but staggering the plastic washer s/s pins at other
centres for 3/8" plasterboard (also staggerd joints)
scrimmed and skimmed the lot with finish
Put back all the joinery timbers with 5" long fixings or plaser board
fixings depending on need for load
put back floor boards

5) chimneys
(this should really be Number 2)
made a nice framed rectangle of 4" PU foam with wood around cut so
half in inside the fireplace and half outside and all fitting nicely
with ply surface
shoved it in the chimney hole
painted it nicely

keeps house warm
if you want a fire just take it out and put to one side

Chris

In message
,
writes
On 5 Feb, 16:23, Paul wrote:
Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.



I realise this house will never be as energy efficient as a modern
house but I desperately need to improve its heat retention. Where am I
likely to be losing the most heat and what can I do about it? I can't
afford to replace the windows. Does anyone have experience of the
relative merits of secondary glazing units versus the brush pile
draughtproofing that you get from the likes of Reddiseals?
What about the floors? What's the best thing to seal the gaps between
the floorboards? Would insulation under the floorboards provide a
significant difference compared to merely sealing between them?
Anything else I should look at?


4) Walls
either external or internal

Internal is favourite as Victorian semis are normally nice brick
outside

Be prepared to lose 2.5" of every external wall if you do this
I did it and it was brilliant
I ignored the advice to put on battens as I wanted the space
I took off all architraves, skirtings, picture rails etc and lifted
floor boards at edges

snip

Put back all the joinery timbers with 5" long fixings or plaser board
fixings depending on need for load
put back floor boards

A couple of points:

1. if you have nice coving you will loose that

2. You will need to replace or build out door casings, or around windows
if they are sashes fitted flush with the internal walls as in our house.

Not that we'd be allowed to even if we wanted to being listed
--
Chris French

the 2" TP 10 PU foam sheet of 8 x 4 and fixed it to the wall direct
using 5 No EXTERNAL insluation plastic and stainless steel fixings
designed for the outside insulation


what are these plastic and stainless teel fixings?
I cant find any online, cos i dont know what i'm looking for..

is the plastica wide washer to stop it digging into the insulation,
or something to stop heat loss?

have you a weblink for them please?

[g]

Housemartin posted
Hi folks
Watch out for plastic sheet as secondry glazing on windows. I put some
2mm stuff up for somone recently and after a couple of months it all
started warping.

I have never been able to cut it properly. It always breaks.

I ended up having to fix extra clips at 6inch
centers to solve the problem, but would only use toughened glass in
the future.

It's so damned heavy though. And more awkward to store away in summer.

--
Les
If people know by taking part in protests there is a danger of being searched,
they should think about not putting themselves in that position.

On Feb 5, 3:42*pm, "george (dicegeorge)" wrote:
Paul wrote:
Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.



Do you have any external walls that would be easy to insulate? Adding
60mm celotex on the inside reduces the U value from 2 to about 0.3
Watts/sqm.K . it's a dramatic change.

Robert

On 17 Feb, 09:39, RobertL wrote:
On Feb 5, 3:42*pm, "george (dicegeorge)" wrote:

Paul wrote:
Hi,

I moved into a three storey Victorian semi six months ago. In the last
few weeks of Summer sun the house was toasty. It got a bit cooler in
Autumn but has been absolutely freezing since winter set in.

Do you have any external walls that would be easy to insulate? *Adding
60mm celotex on the inside reduces the U value from 2 to about 0.3
Watts/sqm.K * *. *it's a dramatic change.

Robert

Lots of external walls but they all have 'features' so insulating over
the top would be difficult.

Paul.