Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? What
variables need to be taken into account?

Keith

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Keefiedee
saying something like:

heating hot water in the summer

It's already hot.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:35:16 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Keefiedee
wrote this:-

Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? What
variables need to be taken into account?

It depends. Is the cylinder insulated with sprayed on insulation?
How long is the pipe run between boiler and cylinder? How old is the
boiler? How good are the controls?

Why not fit solar and get nearly all hot water in the summer from
the sun?



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Keefiedee wrote:
Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? What
variables need to be taken into account?

Keith

Gas CH boiler normally. If you have a cast iron exchanger boiler and a
long pipe run, immersion might beat it.


NT

wrote:
Keefiedee wrote:
Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? What
variables need to be taken into account?

Keith

Gas CH boiler normally. If you have a cast iron exchanger boiler and a
long pipe run, immersion might beat it.


NT

OP had just posted in another thread about additives for CH oil. So I
suspect not gas.

Effect, I'd guess, would be higher cost than gas? (For a variety of
reasons starting with oil itself and continuing with burner efficiency.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:22:46 +0000 someone who may be David Hansen
wrote this:-

It depends. Is the cylinder insulated with sprayed on insulation?
How long is the pipe run between boiler and cylinder? How old is the
boiler? How good are the controls?

Also, are the pipes between boiler and cylinder insulated? As others
have said, what is the fuel?



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Feb 5, 6:35*am, Keefiedee wrote:
Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? *What
variables need to be taken into account?

Keith

I remember calculating this back in 1987 and concluding that it was a
little cheaper to use the economy 7 immersion heater at night than
gas. but that electric heating at the day rate was more expensive than
gas.

However, I think now that gas is cheaper.

R

Keefiedee wrote:
Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? What
variables need to be taken into account?

Keith

depnds on fuel prices.

one litre of oil roughly equals ten kilowatt hours.

David Hansen wrote:
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:35:16 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Keefiedee
wrote this:-

Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? What
variables need to be taken into account?

It depends. Is the cylinder insulated with sprayed on insulation?
How long is the pipe run between boiler and cylinder? How old is the
boiler? How good are the controls?

Why not fit solar and get nearly all hot water in the summer from
the sun?



cos its expensive and ugly, and teh payback period is at least fifteen
years, by which time its clogged up and needs an expensive service?

wrote:

Keefiedee wrote:
Which is cheaper - heating hot water in the summer with an immersion
heater on economy 7, or using the central heating boiler? What
variables need to be taken into account?

Gas CH boiler normally. If you have a cast iron exchanger boiler and a
long pipe run, immersion might beat it.

If you have an old gas boiler with a pilot light, and you are
only using it for hot water in the summer, the cost of running
the pilot light can be significant.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:22:46 +0000, David Hansen wrote:

Why not fit solar and get nearly all hot water in the summer from
the sun?

Because you can probably save more money and energy spending the same
amount of money on draughtproofing, insulation, better heating controls, a
more efficient boiler even?

--
John Stumbles

You'll make some woman a fine husband, Dr Frankenstein

John Stumbles posted
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:22:46 +0000, David Hansen wrote:

Why not fit solar and get nearly all hot water in the summer from
the sun?

Because you can probably save more money and energy spending the same
amount of money on draughtproofing, insulation, better heating controls, a
more efficient boiler even?

It'd be interesting to know the numbers. Is it possible to get
dirt-cheap DIY-fittable solar heating panels, as it is with roof
insulation? Or are you stuck with getting some cowboy to do it for ten
grand?

--
Les

Big Les Wade wrote:
John Stumbles posted
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:22:46 +0000, David Hansen wrote:

Why not fit solar and get nearly all hot water in the summer from
the sun?

Because you can probably save more money and energy spending the same
amount of money on draughtproofing, insulation, better heating
controls, a
more efficient boiler even?

It'd be interesting to know the numbers. Is it possible to get
dirt-cheap DIY-fittable solar heating panels, as it is with roof
insulation? Or are you stuck with getting some cowboy to do it for ten
grand?

My silly father in law fitted two and a half grand of solar panels with
fancy meters and all. He thinks its fine.

The fancy sales blurb said 'up to half off your heating bills'.

Then lower down in teh small print it gave the best case solar output,
which equated at 100% efficiency to £165 a year worth of electricity or oil'

A net ROI of about 5%. At 100% efficiency.

Right.

I fact I suspect it's less than half that.

Now also consider that ter have been well document caes of thse pabnles
going wrong and clogging after a couple of years. Lichen dirt and crap
can cover them. If not well installed they can scale up. Pumps can and
do fail. If they are pumped..and how much electricity does the pump use?

Inshort, a complete and utter waste of money.

I get loads of solar power here. I draw the curtains in the living room
on sunny days. generally the room temp leaps by up to 2 degrees in
winter..nearer 5 in summer.

Cost me NOTHING to install.

In our climate solar power is a total utter and complete CON.

california or greece maybe..not here.

In article , Big Les Wade wrote:

It'd be interesting to know the numbers. Is it possible to get
dirt-cheap DIY-fittable solar heating panels

At the lower extreme there are people who have made their own from scrap.
(Efficiency is lower than decent purpose made stuff, obviously, but so is
cost.) You can get DIY kits too. Fitting it safely to a roof can be
non-trivial though.

There are also plastic panels which are cheap(ish) but only good for lower
temperatures - but might be fine for an outdoor swimming pool if you have
the area for them.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

In our climate solar power is a total utter and complete CON.

Utter cock. You keep trotting this old ****e out and totally ignoring
the diy aspect of it. DIY solar works very well and that's what the
question related to.
If you've nothing constructive to add, just **** off.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

In our climate solar power is a total utter and complete CON.

Utter cock. You keep trotting this old ****e out and totally ignoring
the diy aspect of it. DIY solar works very well and that's what the
question related to.

Well if you wantto commit to a **** load of plumbing and =several dys
laboutr to rean less than you could've laboring for someone else, be my
guest.

If you've nothing constructive to add, just **** off.

And precisely what constructive ideas have you contributed with this post?


Its not MY fault if you've been conned. Don't shoot the messenger

On 6 Feb 2009 23:58:56 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

Why not fit solar and get nearly all hot water in the summer from
the sun?

Because you can probably save more money and energy spending the same
amount of money on draughtproofing, insulation, better heating controls, a
more efficient boiler even?

As I have said many times, passive measures like insulation should
always be undertaken before considering a gadget to "make" energy.

I could have a boilerplate piece of text to that effect, but someone
would no-doubt complain about that.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

If you've nothing constructive to add, just **** off.

And precisely what constructive ideas have you contributed with this post?

At least the OP now has an idea that it can be done by himself. All he
needs to do now is drive google for ten seconds.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

In our climate solar power is a total utter and complete CON.

That is so wrong. DIYed DHW solar is cost effective. All the heat you get
is for free. As fuel prices go up, the payback period shortens
dramatically.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

If you've nothing constructive to add, just **** off.

And precisely what constructive ideas have you contributed with this post?

He told you to eff off which is constructive enough.

Grimly Curmudgeon posted
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

If you've nothing constructive to add, just **** off.

And precisely what constructive ideas have you contributed with this post?

At least the OP now has an idea that it can be done by himself. All he
needs to do now is drive google for ten seconds.

What terms should I search on?

--
Les
If people know by taking part in protests there is a danger of being searched,
they should think about not putting themselves in that position.

Big Les Wade wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon posted
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

If you've nothing constructive to add, just **** off.

And precisely what constructive ideas have you contributed with this
post?

At least the OP now has an idea that it can be done by himself. All he
needs to do now is drive google for ten seconds.

What terms should I search on?

try 'green****' and 'ecobollox' and 'how I spent a monthn and 500 quid
on diesel raiding scrap yards and constructing an unreliable ugly piece
of **** that saved me 25 quid a year till it broke'

On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:26:56 +0000 someone who may be Big Les Wade
wrote this:-

At least the OP now has an idea that it can be done by himself. All he
needs to do now is drive google for ten seconds.

What terms should I search on?

That is up to you. However, a little effort on your part should
fairly rapidly lead you to http://www.navitron.org.uk, which is
one place where you will find various bits that may be of advantage
in doing a DIY installation.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Big Les Wade
saying something like:

At least the OP now has an idea that it can be done by himself. All he
needs to do now is drive google for ten seconds.

What terms should I search on?

"diy solar heating"

Enjoy; you'll be there for ages, leafing through the things people have
done - it actually works and sometimes bloody well. The key is to diy -
commercial kits and installs don't make financial sense.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

try 'green****' and 'ecobollox' and 'how I spent a monthn and 500 quid
on diesel raiding scrap yards and constructing an unreliable ugly piece
of **** that saved me 25 quid a year till it broke'

Bitter little man.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Big Les Wade
saying something like:

What terms should I search on?

Another one to add to your search is www.homepower.com and ignore the
lentil tendency - the back issues are full of practical tried and tested
installations done by contributors, many of whom live at a similar
latitude to us.

A sometimes useful newsgroup is alt.energy.homepower - there are lots of
links in some contributors' sigs and a simple question along the lines
of what you asked here will get you many replies, but do a google search
first on it - it's definitely an FAQ.

In article , Big Les Wade wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon posted
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

If you've nothing constructive to add, just **** off.

And precisely what constructive ideas have you contributed with this post?

At least the OP now has an idea that it can be done by himself. All he
needs to do now is drive google for ten seconds.

What terms should I search on?

To find DIY solar panels? Why not try "DIY solar panels"?

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

try 'green****' and 'ecobollox' and 'how I spent a monthn and 500 quid
on diesel raiding scrap yards and constructing an unreliable ugly piece
of **** that saved me 25 quid a year till it broke'

Bitter little man.

Not bitter, realistic.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Not bitter, realistic.

I don't disagree with you about the snake oil that is sold commercially,
but you throw the brat out with the bathwater when you dismiss out of
hand the very real gains to be had if it's done by oneself, as is
supposed to be what this group is about.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Not bitter, realistic.

I don't disagree with you about the snake oil that is sold commercially,
but you throw the brat out with the bathwater when you dismiss out of
hand the very real gains to be had if it's done by oneself, as is
supposed to be what this group is about.

Well I thought this group was more about saving yourself money and/or
doing a better job than the professional to get an overall useful solution.

I can make and electric motor with two nails, a horseshoe magnet and a
but of insulated wire as well, but I don't expect it to do anything USEFUL.

Or insulate my house by stuffing newspapers in the cavities..