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#1
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Boiler for heating with output connected directly to input pipe
I have an oil-fired boiler for heating the house. The hot water
output goes to conventional radiators, plus a radiant floor system. The odd thing, to me, about this system is that the boiler output, besides branching off to the radiators and the radiant floor system, loops back directly into the cold-water return. This loop-back takes place immediately above the boiler, so the distance that some of the output hot water takes is only about 8 feets before it returns to the boiler via the cool-water return pipe. Thus the "cold-water" return pipe is just a hot as the hot-water pipe leaving the boiler (i.e., you can't touch it with your bare hands). There is a shut-off valve which can break this loop. I have asked some plumbers and some say that that is an efficiency issue, needed to prevent the boiler from having to heat up the fully heat-released return water; i.e., since the return water is hot, the boiler doesn't have to work as hard. This sounds true but nuts to me (and to some other plumbers), since much of the water is bypassing heating the house and is just cycling directly (and to me, pointlessly) back into the boiler. Can anyone clarify if this makes sense (to have this immediate feedback), or can I safely eliminate this loop by using the shutoff valve? |
#2
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Boiler for heating with output connected directly to input pipe
On 3 Feb, 18:44, wrote:
I have an oil-fired boiler for heating the house. *The hot water output goes to conventional radiators, plus a radiant floor system. The odd thing, to me, about this system is that the boiler output, besides branching off to the radiators and the radiant floor system, loops back directly into the cold-water return. *This loop-back takes place immediately above the boiler, so the distance that some of the output hot water takes is only about 8 feets before it returns to the boiler via the cool-water return pipe. *Thus the "cold-water" return pipe is just a hot as the hot-water pipe leaving the boiler (i.e., you can't touch it with your bare hands). *There is a shut-off valve which can break this loop. *I have asked some plumbers and some say that that is an efficiency issue, needed to prevent the boiler from having to heat up the fully heat-released return water; i.e., since the return water is hot, the boiler doesn't have to work as hard. *This sounds true but nuts to me (and to some other plumbers), since much of the water is bypassing heating the house and is just cycling directly (and to me, pointlessly) back into the boiler. Can anyone clarify if this makes sense (to have this immediate feedback), or can I safely eliminate this loop by using the shutoff valve? take a look at bypass circuits, especially in conjunction with TRVs on the radiators and zone control valves |
#4
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Boiler for heating with output connected directly to input pipe
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:54:53 +0000, David Hansen wrote:
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:44:34 -0800 (PST) someone who may be wrote this:- I have an oil-fired boiler for heating the house. The hot water output goes to conventional radiators, plus a radiant floor system. The odd thing, to me, about this system is that the boiler output, besides branching off to the radiators and the radiant floor system, loops back directly into the cold-water return. This loop-back takes place immediately above the boiler, so the distance that some of the output hot water takes is only about 8 feets before it returns to the boiler via the cool-water return pipe. Two likely reasons for this pipe. Thermostatic valves have already been mentioned. Do you have any? Secondly, the pipe is raising the return water temperature in order to minimise corrosion of the boiler. Thermostatic valves can be fitted to the pipe to minimise heat losses. I would suspect all those are true. Probably the valve shouldn't be all the way open, though - it should make a high resistance path compared to the main heating loop, otherwise you probably won't get much hot going round that way.. |
#5
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Boiler for heating with output connected directly to input pipe
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#6
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Boiler for heating with output connected directly to input pipe
On Feb 4, 10:19*am, Harry Parkes wrote:
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:44:34 -0800 (PST), wrote: I have an oil-fired boiler for heating the house. *The hot water output goes to conventional radiators, plus a radiant floor system. The odd thing, to me, about this system is that the boiler output, besides branching off to the radiators and the radiant floor system, loops back directly into the cold-water return. *This loop-back takes place immediately above the boiler, so the distance that some of the output hot water takes is only about 8 feets before it returns to the boiler via the cool-water return pipe. *Thus the "cold-water" return pipe is just a hot as the hot-water pipe leaving the boiler (i.e., you can't touch it with your bare hands). *There is a shut-off valve which can break this loop. *I have asked some plumbers and some say that that is an efficiency issue, needed to prevent the boiler from having to heat up the fully heat-released return water; i.e., since the return water is hot, the boiler doesn't have to work as hard. *This sounds true but nuts to me (and to some other plumbers), since much of the water is bypassing heating the house and is just cycling directly (and to me, pointlessly) back into the boiler. Can anyone clarify if this makes sense (to have this immediate feedback), or can I safely eliminate this loop by using the shutoff valve? This is a bypass to prevent the pump from working against to higher resistance if all of the radiators are shut off or restricted by TRVs. I don't believe it is for the flow resistence; most CH pumnps are designed to handle zero flow consitions. AIUI it's a tempertaure issue: If TRVs all switch to off then (without this loop) there would be no flow at all and the boiler "flow temperature" sensor would not detect the rising temperature of the water in the heat exchanger which could then lead to overheating. Such a loop, with a tap in it set to 'trickle' is used so that there is a small flow even if all the TRVs are off. Thus the flow temp sensor detects the high flow temp and turns off the heat properly. Robert |
#7
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Boiler for heating with output connected directly to input pipe
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 04:33:18 -0800 (PST) someone who may be RobertL
wrote this:- Such a loop, with a tap in it set to 'trickle' It should be set so that the manufacturer's specified minimum flow rate through the boiler is maintained under all conditions. We still haven't heard whether there are any TRVs in the heating system. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
#8
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Boiler for heating with output connected directly to input pipe
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:44:34 -0800 (PST) someone who may be wrote this:- I have an oil-fired boiler for heating the house. The hot water output goes to conventional radiators, plus a radiant floor system. The odd thing, to me, about this system is that the boiler output, besides branching off to the radiators and the radiant floor system, loops back directly into the cold-water return. This loop-back takes place immediately above the boiler, so the distance that some of the output hot water takes is only about 8 feets before it returns to the boiler via the cool-water return pipe. Two likely reasons for this pipe. Thermostatic valves have already been mentioned. Do you have any? Secondly, the pipe is raising the return water temperature in order to minimise corrosion of the boiler. Thermostatic valves can be fitted to the pipe to minimise heat losses. Correct. To prevent condensation inside the boiler by raising the return temp. With having low temp UFH on and rads off, the return temp will be too low for the boiler and condensation will occur inside the boiler rotting it. It should have a blending valve on the boiler return keeping the return temp just above dew-point. As it stands it probably just needs the gate valve cracked open. |
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