As header really.
The boiler installation is an old New World stowaway back boiler. Age
unknown but it was here when we moved in some years ago. Still works well
and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was somewhat clogged with
soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007 when it was also somewhat
clogged.
Over the last month or so the boiler has seen good use and now does not
appear to warm the house as it should.
I suspect the heat exchanger may be clogged.
AFAIK the flue has never been swept.
The boiler may be past its use by date but any constructive comments would
be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil.

"Phil" wrote in message
...
As header really.
The boiler installation is an old New World stowaway back boiler. Age
unknown but it was here when we moved in some years ago. Still works well
and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was somewhat clogged
with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007 when it was also
somewhat clogged.
Over the last month or so the boiler has seen good use and now does not
appear to warm the house as it should.
I suspect the heat exchanger may be clogged.
AFAIK the flue has never been swept.
The boiler may be past its use by date but any constructive comments would
be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil.

It has been a particuarly cold January (coldest winter for 13 years I heard
someone say on the radio just now), so the problem may not be with the
boiler, but just that its colder outside.

We had our subsidised cavity insulation installed back in December, it seems
to keep the inside about a couple of degrees warmer (not a formal measure I
know, but hopefully you know what I mean) than before.

Our council are offering a 70% subsidy, worth taking advantage of.

"Phil" wrote in message
...
As header really.
The boiler installation is an old New World stowaway back boiler. Age
unknown but it was here when we moved in some years ago. Still works well
and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was somewhat clogged
with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007 when it was also
somewhat clogged.
Over the last month or so the boiler has seen good use and now does not
appear to warm the house as it should.
I suspect the heat exchanger may be clogged.
AFAIK the flue has never been swept.
The boiler may be past its use by date but any constructive comments would
be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil.


I can't believe that a serviced boiler is creating soot. It really
shouldn't be if done by anyone half competant.

Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007 when it
was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007
when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

Or poor installation. Or hort ycling

I used to get this a lot with an unbalanced flue..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger
was somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in
2007 when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

Or poor installation. Or hort ycling

I used to get this a lot with an unbalanced flue..

Although he doesn't say, I suspect that this is not a room sealed boiler so
the "soot" could just be burnt fluff etc. that gets drawn into these boilers
rather than an indication of incomplete combustion.

Tim

On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:49:01 +0000, Phil wrote:

As header really.
The boiler installation is an old New World stowaway back boiler. Age
unknown but it was here when we moved in some years ago. Still works well
and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was somewhat clogged with
soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007 when it was also somewhat
clogged.

If the heat exchanger has got sooted up the flue should certainly have been
be checked for soot deposits (and any removed) before it was put back into
service. The /cause/ of the sooting up should also have been ascertained -
especially if it's happened twice! Whether that's inadequate ventilation,
inadequate flueing, wrong gas injectors or whatever, two sooting incidents
in 1-2 years indicates that something needs fixing, urgently.



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

militant pacifist

On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:58:38 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007
when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

This is the sort of boiler that just could possibly do you or someone
else some harm. There is a reason for the soot build up and it is certain
that the cause remains.

CO production will now be certain, and if the flue gases are not going up
the flue where will they be going....

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:58:38 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007
when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

This is the sort of boiler that just could possibly do you or someone
else some harm. There is a reason for the soot build up and it is certain
that the cause remains.

CO production will now be certain, and if the flue gases are not going up
the flue where will they be going....


Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot. Are
there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler in such
condition?

On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:20:47 +0000, Fred wrote:

Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot.
Are there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler
in such condition?

I can think of one: that he leaves it cut off from the gas supply with a
warning notice attached that it is "Immediately Dangerous".



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Extreme moderate

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:20:47 +0000, Fred wrote:

Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot.
Are there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler
in such condition?

I can think of one: that he leaves it cut off from the gas supply with a
warning notice attached that it is "Immediately Dangerous".


My thoughts from the initial post. Either that or he'd have fixed it.
Shame the OP hasn't come back. I can only assume the OP's been servicing it
himself.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Or hort ycling


Took me a while to get that one. You need a supercharger.

Andy

On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:38:52 +0000, Fred wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:20:47 +0000, Fred wrote:

Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot.
Are there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler
in such condition?

I can think of one: that he leaves it cut off from the gas supply with
a warning notice attached that it is "Immediately Dangerous".


My thoughts from the initial post. Either that or he'd have fixed it.
Shame the OP hasn't come back. I can only assume the OP's been
servicing it himself.

Very likely. There seems to have been treatment of the symptoms of soot
rather than their cause.

Most likely the causes are (but not limited to) lint on the air intake
gauzes, debris/lint on any part of the burn injector, mixing tubes, or
burner bar, wrong gas pressures, flaming back to the injector.
The list could go on an on, once soot builds up it makes things worse.
This boiler is an accident waiting to happen, I hope no one is currently
using it.

The flue liner could be the problem but that would be determined in a
service with smoke matches (smatches) and a smoke pellet test.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007 when
it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the boiler
lacking an adequate supply of air.

Lacking an adequate supply of air or lacking an adequate exhaust facility?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007
when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the boiler
lacking an adequate supply of air.

Or poor installation. Or hort ycling

Que?

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger
was somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in
2007 when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

Or poor installation. Or hort ycling

I used to get this a lot with an unbalanced flue..

Although he doesn't say, I suspect that this is not a room sealed boiler
so the "soot" could just be burnt fluff etc. that gets drawn into these
boilers rather than an indication of incomplete combustion.

Thanks Tim,

certainly not a room sealed boiler. Your suggestion may be a possibility.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:58:38 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007
when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

This is the sort of boiler that just could possibly do you or someone
else some harm. There is a reason for the soot build up and it is certain
that the cause remains.

CO production will now be certain, and if the flue gases are not going up
the flue where will they be going....

Thus my OP.
Induction is good, exhaust is as yet unknown.

"Fred" wrote in message
...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:58:38 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Phil pretended :
Still works well and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was
somewhat clogged with soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007
when it was also somewhat clogged.

Producing soot is certainly not normal, it is an indication of the
boiler lacking an adequate supply of air.

This is the sort of boiler that just could possibly do you or someone
else some harm. There is a reason for the soot build up and it is certain
that the cause remains.

CO production will now be certain, and if the flue gases are not going up
the flue where will they be going....


Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot. Are
there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler in such
condition?

Well, I don't know the definition of soot but the fins in the heat exchanger
were clogged with a very fine black substance. Finer than talcum.

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:20:47 +0000, Fred wrote:

Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot.
Are there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler
in such condition?

I can think of one: that he leaves it cut off from the gas supply with a
warning notice attached that it is "Immediately Dangerous".

Thank you.
BG applied such a warning notice some years ago. They then came in to put it
right and issued a certificate saying that it was fir for use.
Said boiler maintained by them since.

"Fred" wrote in message
...

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:20:47 +0000, Fred wrote:

Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot.
Are there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler
in such condition?

I can think of one: that he leaves it cut off from the gas supply with a
warning notice attached that it is "Immediately Dangerous".


My thoughts from the initial post. Either that or he'd have fixed it.
Shame the OP hasn't come back. I can only assume the OP's been servicing
it himself.

Not any shame at all, I don't live on the pc.
I have not ever tried to service this myself and would never do so.
Your assumption is entirely incorrect and more shame to you.
I use the services of professionals. Costs a great deal of money and seems
to get me nowhere.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:38:52 +0000, Fred wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:20:47 +0000, Fred wrote:

Those are my thoughts as long as the OP is really OP is seeing soot.
Are there many instances where a service engineer would leave a boiler
in such condition?

I can think of one: that he leaves it cut off from the gas supply with
a warning notice attached that it is "Immediately Dangerous".


My thoughts from the initial post. Either that or he'd have fixed it.
Shame the OP hasn't come back. I can only assume the OP's been
servicing it himself.

Very likely. There seems to have been treatment of the symptoms of soot
rather than their cause.

Most likely the causes are (but not limited to) lint on the air intake
gauzes, debris/lint on any part of the burn injector, mixing tubes, or
burner bar, wrong gas pressures, flaming back to the injector.
The list could go on an on, once soot builds up it makes things worse.
This boiler is an accident waiting to happen, I hope no one is currently
using it.

The flue liner could be the problem but that would be determined in a
service with smoke matches (smatches) and a smoke pellet test.

--
Thank you,
I will try to find someone that might investigate and make a reasoned
report.

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:49:01 +0000, Phil wrote:

As header really.
The boiler installation is an old New World stowaway back boiler. Age
unknown but it was here when we moved in some years ago. Still works well
and is serviced annually. 2008 the heat exchanger was somewhat clogged
with
soot. This had been cleared previously in 2007 when it was also somewhat
clogged.

If the heat exchanger has got sooted up the flue should certainly have
been
be checked for soot deposits (and any removed) before it was put back into
service. The /cause/ of the sooting up should also have been ascertained -
especially if it's happened twice! Whether that's inadequate ventilation,
inadequate flueing, wrong gas injectors or whatever, two sooting incidents
in 1-2 years indicates that something needs fixing, urgently.


Thank you,

this was my immediate inclination.
I will find a pro to investigate.

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 20:19:10 UTC, "Phil" wrote:

Not any shame at all, I don't live on the pc.
I have not ever tried to service this myself and would never do so.
Your assumption is entirely incorrect and more shame to you.
I use the services of professionals.

I thought you said you used BG?

--
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