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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Controlling new complex heating system
Hi,
We are greatly extending our house and with it fitting a new heating/ hot water system. In summary it will consist of the following.. - 2 system boilers - Megaflow tank - One room (zone) with water UFH - 3 zones (1 per floor) for the heating - 1 "zone" to cover the towel rails in the bathrooms so that they can be warm in summer with the heating off - secondary loop for the hot water to reduce draw down time of the hot water in the other side of the house - all rads with TRVs The question is how on earth do I control all this??? Having looked her and search the web a lot, I have seen the following "possible" solutions and was wondering if anyone here has a fairly cost effective solution? Option 1 - programmable room stats The thought here was to have a programmable room stat per zone (assuming the UFH is an additional zone) located in the hallway/ landing of each floor and in the room with UFH. Centrally control the hot water and towel rails on a timer. Seemed a good solution until my wife thought about the scenario where we come in during a time when the heating is off and want to turn it on again. We would have to go to each room stat and turn it on.... Option 2 - use some X10 controllers I have not had any experience with these but in theory I guess you could control them via a timer and also in the scenario of coming in when everything is off, switch them on with a central controller(s) from anywhere in the house. Has anyone used these? Is this a good idea? Option 3 - a comercial controller. I saw that Honeywell seem to do a fancy controller which optimises the bolier firing and timing based on your temperature requirements and the outside temperature. I couldn't get a great deal of information (nor find anyone who sold it!!) but believe it is called an AQ2000. This would resolve the issue of managing the 2 boilers and the central control when you get into the house but then provides the flip side of how do you switch the heating on when you are upstairs? In summary, despite a great deal of searching, I haven't been able to come up with anything that is flexible and resolves the problems above. Wouldn't it be great if you could call it to turn the heating on on your way home (like you can with alarms to switch them off)?? All ideas and thoughts appreciated. Also, any issues with the current design? thanks in advance Lee. |
#2
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Controlling new complex heating system
wrote in message ... Hi, We are greatly extending our house and with it fitting a new heating/ hot water system. In summary it will consist of the following.. - 2 system boilers - Megaflow tank - One room (zone) with water UFH - 3 zones (1 per floor) for the heating - 1 "zone" to cover the towel rails in the bathrooms so that they can be warm in summer with the heating off - secondary loop for the hot water to reduce draw down time of the hot water in the other side of the house - all rads with TRVs The question is how on earth do I control all this??? Firstly a simple system change. Get rid of the Megalow and fit a heat bank/thermal store. This does the DHW at mains pressure. All the zone can be taken off the store of water directly or a small header for the 3 rads zones and bathroom rail zone. Each zone has a pump and check valve in front. Simple and the same price as zone valves and less problematical. The rad and rail zones can have Smart pumps on each, which means TRVs all around and no silly by-pass valves or wall thermostats. The UFH can be taken directly off the thermal store cylidner lower down where temperaures are lower. Use a single speed pump and blending valve. The boilers? Take each one to the store cylidner with its own flow and return. No header. No need to sequence the boilers. Have two cylinder stats for anti-boiler cycling purposes - the boiler comes in the reheat the whole cylidner ASAP in one long efficvient burn. That is the mechanical side sorted. Control: Timer for DHW, which calls in the boilers. In summer one can be manually switched out. Each boiler requires its own isolating switch. Cheap single stage Timer for each zone. It switches on a relay. The relay switches the Pump for the zone and the boilers. Relays are approx £5 from Maplin and put in a nice large plastic box. Have a wall stat for the UFH between the timer and the pump. The timers can all be in one position in the house. Each function (zone, boioer DHW) work totally independently. In winter have the DHW come well before the CH, so that the CH rads get hot immediately by dumping the hot water directly into heating loops from the cylidner store. For an explanation: http://www.heatweb.com These will make the thermal store/heat bank for you. Specify the number of tappings, etc. Stainless steel. http://www.advanceappliances.co.uk/g...e_systems.html Get back if you wnat to know more. |
#4
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Controlling new complex heating system
John,
Thanks very much for your reply..... Sounds like a plan but I am a little confused about the following When you come in, you flick the programmer back to always on. The prog stats will then set about heating any zone that is currently below its target temperature for that time period. In normal operation, wouldn't the programmer be set to "always on" anyway as we are relying on the programmable stats to decide when heating should be on by zone? If it wasn't for some reason, switching it to "always on" wouldn't override the times set on the stats would it. i.e. if the stat says turn off/ go to minimum temp at 10:00 and at 11:00 I switch the central programmer to "always on", the stat will override it? thanks Lee. |
#5
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Controlling new complex heating system
wrote:
John, Thanks very much for your reply..... Sounds like a plan but I am a little confused about the following When you come in, you flick the programmer back to always on. The prog stats will then set about heating any zone that is currently below its target temperature for that time period. In normal operation, wouldn't the programmer be set to "always on" anyway as we are relying on the programmable stats to decide when heating should be on by zone? If it wasn't for some reason, switching Yes, it to "always on" wouldn't override the times set on the stats would it. i.e. if the stat says turn off/ go to minimum temp at 10:00 and at 11:00 I switch the central programmer to "always on", the stat will override it? This is true. I was assuming you would set the stats such that they keep the house at the temperature you require when you require it. However the addition of the programmer would would allow you to reduce the heating for times when you are not following your normal pattern of occupation - i.e. everyone out for the day, or on holls etc. You would then have the timer set to run the heating just enough to keep it ticking over. To be fair a frost prevention stat would probably do this just as well. If you particularly wanted to be able to force the heating on at a time when the programmable stats are already satisfied, there is nothing stopping you adding an override switch or programmer. A simple one that has a "boost" facility would allow you to push one button and have the heating run for an hour regardless of the stats being satisfied. However I am not quite sure why you would want to do that unless you plan to program the stats to a very low temperature for the bulk of the day when you expect to be out, and need to account for unexpected periods of occupation. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#6
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Controlling new complex heating system
If you particularly wanted to be able to force the heating on at a time when the programmable stats are already satisfied, there is nothing stopping you adding an override switch or programmer. A simple one that has a "boost" facility would allow you to push one button and have the heating run for an hour regardless of the stats being satisfied. However I am not quite sure why you would want to do that unless you plan to program the stats to a very low temperature for the bulk of the day when you expect to be out, and need to account for unexpected periods of occupation. -- Hi John, This is exactly what we wanted . However, I guess the programmable room stats would turn a motorised valve on as well as firing the boiler. In the case of hitting the boost button, the boiler may start but the valves not open. Not sure if this is the way it works though? thanks Lee. |
#7
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Controlling new complex heating system
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#8
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Controlling new complex heating system
wrote:
If you particularly wanted to be able to force the heating on at a time when the programmable stats are already satisfied, there is nothing stopping you adding an override switch or programmer. A simple one that has a "boost" facility would allow you to push one button and have the heating run for an hour regardless of the stats being satisfied. However I am not quite sure why you would want to do that unless you plan to program the stats to a very low temperature for the bulk of the day when you expect to be out, and need to account for unexpected periods of occupation. -- This is exactly what we wanted . However, I guess the programmable room stats would turn a motorised valve on as well as firing the boiler. In the case of hitting the boost button, the boiler may start but the valves not open. Not sure if this is the way it works though? You would connect your override button(s)/programmer across the contacts of the room stat(s). That way it will fire the system/zone in exactly the same way as the stat. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#9
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Controlling new complex heating system
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