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How loud is 43Db
How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a
slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. I obviously do not own a decibel meter (I am sure they are not called that). So could anyone offer a comparison. Thanks AndyP |
How loud is 43Db
How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db.
43dB is quite a reduction from 52dB and well worth having. It is the difference between the figures that is important, not their ratios. Christian. |
How loud is 43Db
Christian, thanks. It is a 20% reduction which I agree would be very
noticeable. My quandary is whether or not 52db would be invasive in an open plan kitchen/dining area, but this could be subjective anyway. Appliance in question is a dishwasher (we do not have one currently). The comparison is between an AEG (43db) and a Bosch (52db). I have no data on our existing Hotpoint washing machine to see what noise rating that has. AndyP "Christian McArdle" wrote in message t... How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. 43dB is quite a reduction from 52dB and well worth having. It is the difference between the figures that is important, not their ratios. Christian. |
How loud is 43Db
"Dee" wrote in message ... How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. I obviously do not own a decibel meter (I am sure they are not called that). So could anyone offer a comparison. Thanks AndyP A quick Google search would have removed the need for the question (!) and found: Decibel ratings and common sounds Decibel Level Example 0 Lowest sound audible to human ear 10 Quiet library, soft whisper 30 Quiet office, living room, bedroom away from traffic 40 Light traffic at a distance, refrigerator, gentle breeze 50 Air conditioner at 20 feet, conversation, sewing machine 60 Busy traffic, office tabulator, noisy restaurant 80 Subway, heavy city traffic, alarm clock at 2 feet, factory noise 100 Truck traffic, noisy home appliances, shop tools, lawnmower 110 Chain saw, boiler shop, pneumatic drill 120 Rock concert in front of speakers, sandblasting, thunderclap 140 Gunshot blast, jet plane 180 Rocket launching pad -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
How loud is 43Db
Decibel ratings and common sounds Decibel Level Example 0 Lowest sound audible to human ear 10 Quiet library, soft whisper 30 Quiet office, living room, bedroom away from traffic 40 Light traffic at a distance, refrigerator, gentle breeze 50 Air conditioner at 20 feet, conversation, sewing machine 60 Busy traffic, office tabulator, noisy restaurant 80 Subway, heavy city traffic, alarm clock at 2 feet, factory noise 100 Truck traffic, noisy home appliances, shop tools, lawnmower 110 Chain saw, boiler shop, pneumatic drill 120 Rock concert in front of speakers, sandblasting, thunderclap 140 Gunshot blast, jet plane 180 Rocket launching pad -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) Bob, thanks for that. I have been googling all afternoon comparing prices and spec of kitchen appliances search as you have never crossed my mind. Thanks. AndyP |
How loud is 43Db
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:15:59 +0100, "Dee" wrote:
How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. I obviously do not own a decibel meter (I am sure they are not called that). So could anyone offer a comparison. Thanks AndyP It's almost 10 times quieter. However, the figures, and the behaviour of the ear are logarithmic (approximately). The difference between the figures is important, as is the method of measurement and the distance. Unless these are the same, you can't compare the figures. Assuming that the conditions are the same, then if noise is a concern, this is a difference worth having. ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
How loud is 43Db
In article ,
Dee wrote: How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. If you give the average person a volume control and get them to set it to half the level, and then measure it, it will be about 10 dB, so the difference between 43 and 52 is, in practice, a great deal. -- *Born free - taxed to death * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
How loud is 43Db
Christian, thanks. It is a 20% reduction which I agree would be very
noticeable. It isn't a 20% reduction. The different between 52 and 43 is the same as the difference between 10 and 1. It is even the same as reducing 5 to -4. It is reducing the power of the noise by a factor of 8. Ears have an amazing dynamic range, so it won't actually be perceived as an 8 times reduction. I would guess it will sound about half as loud. Christian. |
How loud is 43Db
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:15:59 +0100, "Dee" wrote:
How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db 9dB difference. 3dB is a doubling, which is also roughly the smallest level that you'll notice. So this is about "3 subjective notches" louder. 43 dB is a "typical room" sort of level. 52dB is "outdoors on a city street". (Yes, and I _know_ that dB aren't an absolute measure) -- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods |
How loud is 43Db
We have a 46dB Dishwasher (Bosch) and its very quiet - much quieter than the one it
replaced - this was also a Bosch but 20 years older (never went wrong) and we gave to a friend 30 months ago, who still runs it twice a day in a B and B !! (its well shagged though now !) 46dB is quiet enough to have a normal conversation 4 feet away in a quiet room and only notice its on when someone points out it is on - not even obtrusive - it was selected for its quietness as its in the kitchen / diner where the family seem to spend most of their time !! Hope that helps... Nick |
How loud is 43Db
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:01:41 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote: 43 dB is a "typical room" sort of level. 52dB is "outdoors on a city street". The following web page provides dB(A) ratings for a personal computer, though I'm not sure (okay, okay, I don't know) what the "A" represents: http://www.quietpc.com/uk/cpucooling.php Above 35dB(A) is, in PC terms, loud. Less than 25dB(A) is extremely quiet. I can vouch for these figures having fitting a couple of ultraquiet fans to my PCs. PoP |
How loud is 43Db
Dee wrote:
How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. I obviously do not own a decibel meter (I am sure they are not called that). So could anyone offer a comparison. Oh. Its 9 dB quieter. Thats quite a bit quieter. :-) Thanks AndyP |
How loud is 43Db
Dee wrote:
Christian, thanks. It is a 20% reduction Not in any known engineering quintity it ain't. Its actually about ten times less noisy. |
How loud is 43Db
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:15:59 +0100, "Dee" wrote: How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db 9dB difference. 3dB is a doubling, which is also roughly the smallest level that you'll notice. So this is about "3 subjective notches" louder. One decibel is DEFINED as teh smallest difference in sound you can hear volume wise. Or was, Then they took the results of teh tests and expressed it in energy per squarte foot or something. 43 dB is a "typical room" sort of level. 52dB is "outdoors on a city street". Nah, thats more lke 85dB 43dB is quite. 52dB is quiet converstaion when you don't want to be overheard. (Yes, and I _know_ that dB aren't an absolute measure) -- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods |
How loud is 43Db
db sometimes ...dBA at others ....the dBA is used more often as the human ear
is not as receptive at some frequencies as at others. The dBA values take this into account. There are also other db variations. Pressure ...power ..intensity.... 50 dBA is low and 40ish extremely low! |
How loud is 43Db
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:29:42 +0100, PoP wrote:
The following web page provides dB(A) ratings for a personal computer, though I'm not sure (okay, okay, I don't know) what the "A" represents: I think dB(A) has the scale adjusted so it more closely matches typical human hearing. |
How loud is 43Db
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:01:44 +0100, "froggers"
wrote: 46dB is quiet enough to have a normal conversation 4 feet away in a quiet room and only notice its on when someone points out it is on - not even obtrusive - it was selected for its quietness as its in We got the model below that one - 51db - and most of the time you don't really know it's on, and the kitchen is the quietest room in the house in relation to traffic and other noise. We get more noise in the front room from someone passing in the street :) That's *passing* for any of you that might think summat else :oD cheers witchy/binarydinosaurs |
How loud is 43Db
If the dishwasher is anything like their washing machines then go for a
different make. We have a Bosch and it's VERY noisy. Even Which magazine points that out even though they recommend it. "Dee" wrote in message ... Christian, thanks. It is a 20% reduction which I agree would be very noticeable. My quandary is whether or not 52db would be invasive in an open plan kitchen/dining area, but this could be subjective anyway. Appliance in question is a dishwasher (we do not have one currently). The comparison is between an AEG (43db) and a Bosch (52db). I have no data on our existing Hotpoint washing machine to see what noise rating that has. AndyP "Christian McArdle" wrote in message t... How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. 43dB is quite a reduction from 52dB and well worth having. It is the difference between the figures that is important, not their ratios. Christian. |
How loud is 43Db
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:49:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: One decibel is DEFINED as teh smallest difference in sound you can hear volume wise. No it isn't. And you can hear much less than this, if you're trying to listen for "which tone is louder" experiments. I'm not even going to start posting the definition of the Bel. UFGFFS. 43 dB is a "typical room" sort of level. 52dB is "outdoors on a city street". Nah, thats more lke 85dB "city street with no heavy traffic" I live out in the sticks. -- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods |
How loud is 43Db
"Dee" wrote in message ...
How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. I obviously do not own a decibel meter (I am sure they are not called that). So could anyone offer a comparison. Thanks AndyP As a very rough rule of thumb (with all sorts of caveats), 10 db equates to a perceived difference of 2:1, thus 10dB greater will sound twice as loud, and 10dB lower will sound half as loud. Similarly, a 3dB change will be detectable if switched quickly from one level to the other, but not detectable in a longer-term comparison test (using a chi-squared test for example). Bear in mind that the response of the ear is quasi-logarithmic, rather than linear. CRB |
How loud is 43Db
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes snipped One decibel is DEFINED as teh smallest difference in sound you can hear volume wise. 1dB is reckoned to be about the smallest difference you can detect listening to a pure tone; 3dB is about the smallest difference for 'normal' sounds. All other things being equal, 43dB will sound noticeably quieter than 52dB. Cheers -- Keith Wootten |
How loud is 43Db
In uk.d-i-y, Andy Dingley wrote:
I'm not even going to start posting the definition of the Bel. UFGFFS. Putting on my super-crypto-decoding hat: Word 1 starts with a U. I think it's Use. Word 3 starts with a G. As we're talking of searching for info, it must be Google. Word 4 starts with a Fuh. Like Ferry, as in Gerry and his Pacemakers. But here I think it's another 3-letter job; specifically, "for". Word 6 then pops out as the four-letter word "sake". Words 2 (or at least its unparticipled root) and 5 are spelt out with a single transposition error on T-shirts bought overpriced (or knockoffs at market stalls) by wannabe rebelious yoof. Yeah, go on, rebel: be just like all the other induhviduals making a personal fashion statement against global capatalism by buying up the image of a global brand... Hey, Andy, can I have that job at GCHQ now? ;-) |
How loud is 43Db
"Dee" wrote in :
Bob, thanks for that. I have been googling all afternoon comparing prices and spec of kitchen appliances search as you have never crossed my mind. Thanks. Don't worry about it, if everybody was a google expert the ng would have to shut up shop, unless we could find a few wannabe trolls to have some fun with - and I wouldn't have seen that handy list - I'll make a point to use earplugs on a rocket lauching pad next time mike r |
How loud is 43Db
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How loud is 43Db
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:36:40 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote: Get me my job at HP back You probably wouldn't want to go back. HP has changed enormously in recent years since Carlie took over, but it was changing before that under Lew Platt. PoP |
How loud is 43Db
In uk.d-i-y, PoP wrote:
You probably wouldn't want to go back. HP has changed enormously in recent years since Carlie took over, but it was changing before that under Lew Platt. Change is the only constant. (That's from the MBA's Little Book of Cliche, not to be confused with the far superior Myles na Gopaleen version. But - uncharacteristically - I digress). HP, like the Metropolitan Police*, is a large organisation whose character varies enourmously from one bit to another. HPLabs, where I'm lucky to work, still has the mandate for "blue skies" R&D, and though we've always been measured ultimately on the value of that R&D to the corporation, the evaluation of that Value is done over multi-year timescales, rather than "what have you done for me this quarter". (Of course, the canny lab manager will arrange to have a few relevance-bones to toss to the value-for-money-attack-dogs most quarters, and will when something Big comes off (say, inkjet printing; say, commercialised RISC architecture; say, a deep Linux capability; say, supply-chain modelling/mgmt to make the outsourced manufacturing we've moved to manageable and profitable) to be quite shameless in announcing "ha ha, we've been investing in that on the quiet for the last 5+ years, never've done that if we'd been funded on a contract model, now carry on paying up and you might get another egg-o-gold one day". We work much more closely with the consulting arm and potential suppliers/collaborators than we did 10 or more years ago, but the basic mission hasn't changed. In other bits of the company, change has been much bigger - if you worked in manufacturing, you've become much more of an integrator of suppliers' efforts than a horny-handed go-and-turn-a-batch-on-the-lathe-if-someone's-sick jockey. And lots of people now work for HP who've been brought in as part of an IT outsourcing deal (e.g. most of the IT staff at Proctor & Gamble) who've not previously worked for HP, and don't see an immediate change in their working conditions or relationships. * Ah yes, my candidate for frankest-radio-interview-ever story. Some twenty years ago now, someone from the Met's River Police was being interviewed at discursive length on R4. "Nice thing about the Met", he says, "is it's big enough that people can pursue their passions and talents. People with a thing for horses find their way to the Mounted Section. Me, I love messing about in boats - and here I am on the river. And," he carried on, voice wonderfully flat, "those with a grudge against humanity work in Traffic." It's true, I Heard It Myself. Stefek |
How loud is 43Db
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How loud is 43Db
"Dee" wrote in message ... How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. I obviously do not own a decibel meter (I am sure they are not called that). So could anyone offer a comparison. I have my eye on that AEG too for the same reason. Lets us know what's it's like if you purchase it? Suzanne PS Can I just point out that a baby can cry at 115dB! -somewhere between a pneumatic drill and a rock concert in front of the speakers. Hearing damage starts at 90dB. |
How loud is 43Db
John Armstrong wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:29:42 +0100, PoP wrote: The following web page provides dB(A) ratings for a personal computer, though I'm not sure (okay, okay, I don't know) what the "A" represents: I think dB(A) has the scale adjusted so it more closely matches typical human hearing. Weighted to allow for ear's lack of sensitivity to low and high frequences. |
How loud is 43Db
Many thanks for all the replies. Off work yesterday but read them all this
morning. I've learnt alot again. Oh how I wish I made more attention at school. Logarithims and noise levels we must have studied it but sure as hell have forgotten. Well as 43db is 10 times quieter than 52 then the AEG will be the one AndyP "Dee" wrote in message ... How loud is 43Db when compared with 52Db. Sorry to ask what seems to me as a slightly daft question but our kitchen is open plan and noisy appliances are not welcome. I obviously do not own a decibel meter (I am sure they are not called that). So could anyone offer a comparison. Thanks AndyP |
How loud is 43Db
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:49:59 +0100, "Dee" wrote:
Many thanks for all the replies. Off work yesterday but read them all this morning. I've learnt alot again. Oh how I wish I made more attention at school. Logarithims and noise levels we must have studied it but sure as hell have forgotten. Well as 43db is 10 times quieter than 52 then the AEG will be the one It's not exactly clear what "10 times" means... Almost certainly not that you could have 10 of them on at the same time and only making the same amount of noise as 1 of the louder variety. Fwiw (and there are some sound gurus lurking around here), I believe the average ear can only discern a change of about 3dB (maybe 2). 10dB is perceived as an approximate doubling in volume, iirc. Nevertheless, the quieter machine will be noticeably quieter, but perhaps not throughout its full cycle. They probably use some averaging algorithm to quote results. -- John Mail john rather than nospam... |
How loud is 43Db
In article ,
Dee wrote: Well as 43db is 10 times quieter than 52 then the AEG will be the one Think you should read the thread through again. ;-) To the average human - not measuring instrument - a 10dB reduction results in a halving of the perceived sound level. -- *I used up all my sick days so I called in dead Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
How loud is 43Db
In article ,
John Laird wrote: It's not exactly clear what "10 times" means... Almost certainly not that you could have 10 of them on at the same time and only making the same amount of noise as 1 of the louder variety. Fwiw (and there are some sound gurus lurking around here), I believe the average ear can only discern a change of about 3dB (maybe 2). 10dB is perceived as an approximate doubling in volume, iirc. I'm fairly certain the origin of the decibel (or bel, of which it is a tenth) is that it is the minimum change in level that the average ear can determine in its most sensitive range. 3dB might well be a more practical amount, though, as an average across the audible spectrum. Nevertheless, the quieter machine will be noticeably quieter, but perhaps not throughout its full cycle. They probably use some averaging algorithm to quote results. I'd hope they're quoting the peak level, and it should be 'A' weighted to take into account the varying sensitivity of the ear to different frequencies. -- *What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
How loud is 43Db
I'm fairly certain the origin of the decibel (or bel, of which it is a
tenth) is that it is the minimum change in level that the average ear can determine in its most sensitive range. Nah, the magnitude of a decibel is simply based on 1/10 of a log10 and, so, is mathematically determined. However, you may be getting confused with your story, as when calibrated for use as a noise measure, 0dB is set at a standard threshold of human hearing level by convention. Christian. |
How loud is 43Db
In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote: I'm fairly certain the origin of the decibel (or bel, of which it is a tenth) is that it is the minimum change in level that the average ear can determine in its most sensitive range. Nah, the magnitude of a decibel is simply based on 1/10 of a log10 and, so, is mathematically determined. However, you may be getting confused with your story, as when calibrated for use as a noise measure, 0dB is set at a standard threshold of human hearing level by convention. Well, regardless of where you start the scale, the bel must be a 'quantity' based on something as any unit is. -- *If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
How loud is 43Db
In uk.d-i-y, Dave Plowman wrote:
Well, regardless of where you start the scale, the bel must be a 'quantity' based on something as any unit is. Actually no - it's a "dimensionless" unit, 'cuz it expresses the ratio of one measurement [in this case of a sound level] to another measurement of the same thing. So the 'base of the unit' as you put is divided away to nuttin'. And hence the insistence of the pedants on saying "you can't give a value in decibels without also giving the reference value"; they're right in an anal sort of way, but for common level measurements there's a widely accepted reference level - for audible sound pressure 0dB is "person with good hearing (barely) can't hear it [but if it's made a bit louder they will]; for audio levels it's 0.775V into 600 ohms if I recall correctly. To express a wide range of ratios with smaller numbers, we then take the logarithm of the ratio, so that a difference in level of 1000 times is 3 bels (1000 being 10*10*10 - three tens), a difference in level of one-hundredth is -2 bels (1/100 being 1/(10*10) - two tens on the bottom). And in a final twist to confuse the unwary (maybe for marketing reasons? gawd knows) we use the decibel, tenth-of-a-bel, for common use; so a ratio of 100 gets called 20dB, a ratio of a million is 60dB, and a doubling is just about 3dB, since the base-10 log of 2 is about 0.3010 from memory (you can tell I went to school when log tables were still standard issue - but only just!). It's as if we measured speeds as a ratio to some Standard, say a British Standard Walking Speed of 4mph. Then a speed of 30mph would get called "7.5", a speed of 1mph would be called "0.25", and so on. If the Metrication Council then demanded we recalibrate the British Standard Walking Speed to be expressed as 6.437376 km/h, the 30mph = 48.28032 kp/h would still be called "7.5" (wot with 48.280832 being 7.5 times bigger'n 6.437376). The underlying arbirtrary unit has been divided out, leaving the "dimensionless" ratio. HTH, Stefek |
How loud is 43Db
In article ,
harrogate wrote: Almost correct - I think? Except 0dB in audio is actually 0dBm which equates to 1mW into a resistive load, by convention accepted as 600R unless otherwise stated. 1mW into 600R is almost exactly 775mV. Indeed. And with 'voltage' dBs, which will be the type used for quoting the loudness of appliances etc, 6dB is a doubling of the actual voltage measured. 3dB is a doubling of power, so applies to amplifiers, etc. -- *He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
How loud is 43Db
Dave Plowman wrote in message ...
Well, regardless of where you start the scale, the bel must be a 'quantity' based on something as any unit is. Not quite. A bel is a ratio, not a unit. CRB |
How loud is 43Db
In article ,
CRB wrote: Well, regardless of where you start the scale, the bel must be a 'quantity' based on something as any unit is. Not quite. A bel is a ratio, not a unit. Why give it a name then if it is purely abstract? FWIW, my dictionary says it's a unit for measuring sound. -- *Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
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