Not strictly DIY but I know someone here may have an answer.

My parents are having quotes to replace their 26 year old boiler replaced.
She's had two quotes, one using a Gloworm Flexicom 30SX and one with a
Keston C40. The Gloworm quote is significantly cheaper and it's obvious when
I look at the prices of the boilers on line. The Gloworms typically go for
about £700 and the Kestons £1600.

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even six
are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a lot
better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are Kestons
generally better anyway?

Thanks

In article ,
elziko wrote:
Not strictly DIY but I know someone here may have an answer.

My parents are having quotes to replace their 26 year old boiler
replaced. She's had two quotes, one using a Gloworm Flexicom 30SX and
one with a Keston C40. The Gloworm quote is significantly cheaper and
it's obvious when I look at the prices of the boilers on line. The
Gloworms typically go for about £700 and the Kestons £1600.

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even
six are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a
lot better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are
Kestons generally better anyway?

Have a look at Viessmann too. I recently bought a system boiler from them
for a four bed Victorian semi and it cost less than the 1600 quid you
mention. It's beautifully made.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"elziko" writes:
Not strictly DIY but I know someone here may have an answer.

My parents are having quotes to replace their 26 year old boiler replaced.
She's had two quotes, one using a Gloworm Flexicom 30SX and one with a
Keston C40. The Gloworm quote is significantly cheaper and it's obvious when
I look at the prices of the boilers on line. The Gloworms typically go for
about £700 and the Kestons £1600.

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even six
are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a lot
better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are Kestons
generally better anyway?

I've got a Keston C25 (no longer manufactured).
I bought mine in 2002, probably about half way through the
manufacturing life of that model. At that time, Keston
manufactured only condensing boilers (even before they became
almost mandatory), and hence their customers were primarily
DIY people like me who were willing to spend money on
technology, and local authorities who are spending someone
else's money. (I believe they cam into this market from
manufacturing large commercial condensing boilers.) They
had a good reputation in the self-build groups for helping
DIY installers, and offered a commissioning service. That all
came to an end, parts became difficult to get, and it turned
out there were parts in the boilers which weren't really up
to the job (flue pipework and igniters being common failures).
Keston seemed to have an improvement program (the flue pipe
was changed at least a couple of times during the manufacturing
life, and the ignitor at least once). I liked the technology,
and it's a simple efficient unit. It's OK for me who can fiddle
with it and replace bits that fail, but it's not a boiler I'd
put in my parents' house, where it's just got to work.

Now I did see improvements throughout the manufacturing life,
and if Keston have learned from the issues, it could be that
their current boilers are wonderful now. I'd want to find
some evidence of that before committing to another one.

I'd also check that there's a supply route for spare parts I
can access (which rules out HRPC, and I think that was the only
parts outlet Keston had). Condensing boilers are beyond most
gas installers to diagnose and repair when they go wrong
(excepting the ones here, but you're very lucky to find such
a good one out in the wild). That means I have to do it myself.

Keston C40 sounds very large for a semi. If it's not doing
instant water heating (as a combi does), I doubt you'd need
any more than 20kW. A larger boiler won't modulate down as
far (11kW is lowest for the C40, and about 7kW for my C25).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:18:46 +0000, elziko wrote:

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even six
are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a lot
better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are Kestons
generally better anyway?

The Kestons are probably more sophisticated, but from what I hear on this
group they aren't brilliantly reliable. And however smart they are I doubt
they're worth double the price of a quite reasonable boiler. The others
I'd consider (in the Glow-worm rather than Keston price range) are
Worcester and Vaillant (who own Glow-worm).



--
YAPH http://yaph.co.uk

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

In message , YAPH
writes
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:18:46 +0000, elziko wrote:

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even six
are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a lot
better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are Kestons
generally better anyway?

The Kestons are probably more sophisticated, but from what I hear on this
group they aren't brilliantly reliable. And however smart they are I doubt
they're worth double the price of a quite reasonable boiler. The others
I'd consider (in the Glow-worm rather than Keston price range) are
Worcester and Vaillant (who own Glow-worm).

Worcesters seem to be the fitters choice of boiler

However, I do see a hell of a lot of Worcs Fans and pcbs coming in for
repair that are not as old as I would expect


--
geoff

In article ,
geoff writes:
Worcesters seem to be the fitters choice of boiler

However, I do see a hell of a lot of Worcs Fans and pcbs coming in for
repair that are not as old as I would expect

Do you see much Keston kit come in, specifically the C25?

Of course, there's relatively little out there compared
with the main stream makes. After they turned their back
on the DIY/self-build market, and everyone else started
making condensing boilers, they sort of vanished from the
scene, which was a shame.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
geoff writes:
Worcesters seem to be the fitters choice of boiler

However, I do see a hell of a lot of Worcs Fans and pcbs coming in for
repair that are not as old as I would expect

Do you see much Keston kit come in, specifically the C25?


Hardly any

the occasional fan, a few ignition boards but that's about it

Having had a chat with Ed the other day when he popped into the factory,
it seems that most of them are already broken before they get installed

Ed's new nickname ... "sparky"

ha ha

--
geoff

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:18:46 +0000, elziko wrote:

Not strictly DIY but I know someone here may have an answer.

My parents are having quotes to replace their 26 year old boiler
replaced. She's had two quotes, one using a Gloworm Flexicom 30SX and
one with a Keston C40. The Gloworm quote is significantly cheaper and
it's obvious when I look at the prices of the boilers on line. The
Gloworms typically go for about £700 and the Kestons £1600.

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even
six are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a
lot better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are
Kestons generally better anyway?

Thanks

See the Boiler Choice FAQ.

My boiler choice is subject to a number of factors (unless the customer
has fixed ideas).

Kestons when the flue route is complex, the cost saving in using the
plastic pipe rather than proprietary parts is vast.

Vaillants for combi and plain heating up 24kW (N.B. the 24kW combi can
only do 19kW heating).

Worceter-Bosch for non-combi 24kW , and when keeping a open header
primary circuit.

I'd look at Veissman and MHT if someone wanted me too but I'd work hard to
talk people out of anything below mid-market.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"elziko" writes:
Not strictly DIY but I know someone here may have an answer.

My parents are having quotes to replace their 26 year old boiler replaced.
She's had two quotes, one using a Gloworm Flexicom 30SX and one with a
Keston C40. The Gloworm quote is significantly cheaper and it's obvious when
I look at the prices of the boilers on line. The Gloworms typically go for
about £700 and the Kestons £1600.

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even six
are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a lot
better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are Kestons
generally better anyway?

I've got a Keston C25 (no longer manufactured).
I bought mine in 2002, probably about half way through the
manufacturing life of that model. At that time, Keston
manufactured only condensing boilers (even before they became
almost mandatory), and hence their customers were primarily
DIY people like me who were willing to spend money on
technology, and local authorities who are spending someone
else's money. (I believe they cam into this market from
manufacturing large commercial condensing boilers.) They
had a good reputation in the self-build groups for helping
DIY installers, and offered a commissioning service. That all
came to an end, parts became difficult to get, and it turned
out there were parts in the boilers which weren't really up
to the job (flue pipework and igniters being common failures).
Keston seemed to have an improvement program (the flue pipe
was changed at least a couple of times during the manufacturing
life, and the ignitor at least once). I liked the technology,
and it's a simple efficient unit. It's OK for me who can fiddle
with it and replace bits that fail, but it's not a boiler I'd
put in my parents' house, where it's just got to work.

Now I did see improvements throughout the manufacturing life,
and if Keston have learned from the issues, it could be that
their current boilers are wonderful now. I'd want to find
some evidence of that before committing to another one.

I'd also check that there's a supply route for spare parts I
can access (which rules out HRPC, and I think that was the only
parts outlet Keston had). Condensing boilers are beyond most

Stevenson Sales
http://www.stevenson.uk.com

Carry a wide range of Keston spares, are good at getting things in the
post quickly, take credit/debit cards and will deal with individuals...

Cheers,

William.


gas installers to diagnose and repair when they go wrong
(excepting the ones here, but you're very lucky to find such
a good one out in the wild). That means I have to do it myself.

Keston C40 sounds very large for a semi. If it's not doing
instant water heating (as a combi does), I doubt you'd need
any more than 20kW. A larger boiler won't modulate down as
far (11kW is lowest for the C40, and about 7kW for my C25).

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:26:47 +0000, geoff wrote:

Worcesters seem to be the fitters choice of boiler

However, I do see a hell of a lot of Worcs Fans and pcbs coming in for
repair that are not as old as I would expect

Any particular models? (I see quite a lot of Worcs but apart from the
dodgy relay pcb track on the 24i-s get very few problems with them).

(You'll tell me know how many Worcs bits you've sold me :-))

--
YAPH http://yaph.co.uk

Life is nature's way of keeping meat fresh

In message , YAPH
writes
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:26:47 +0000, geoff wrote:

Worcesters seem to be the fitters choice of boiler

However, I do see a hell of a lot of Worcs Fans and pcbs coming in for
repair that are not as old as I would expect

Any particular models? (I see quite a lot of Worcs but apart from the
dodgy relay pcb track on the 24i-s get very few problems with them).

(You'll tell me know how many Worcs bits you've sold me :-))


Last week, I had more 24i / 28i boards go out than suprimas

and I get a lot of junior pcbs where the fan relay has given up the
ghost

They don't seem to go for very good quality bearings in their fans
either

24/28-i/CDi fans are coming in like there's no tomorrow


--
geoff

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news snipped
I'd look at Veissman and MHT if someone wanted me too but I'd work hard to
talk people out of anything below mid-market.

Did a search on MHT boilers "nothing". Google suggested MHS Boilers, did you
mean MHS or am I missing something here Ed?
Don

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:30:38 +0000, Donwill wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
I'd look at Veissman and MHT if someone wanted me too but I'd work hard
to talk people out of anything below mid-market.

Did a search on MHT boilers "nothing". Google suggested MHS Boilers, did
you mean MHS or am I missing something here Ed? Don

Yes MHS, The late Andy Hall condiered these the best (and probably the
most expensive - up front!) boiler.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:18:46 +0000, elziko wrote:

Not strictly DIY but I know someone here may have an answer.

My parents are having quotes to replace their 26 year old boiler
replaced. She's had two quotes, one using a Gloworm Flexicom 30SX and
one with a Keston C40. The Gloworm quote is significantly cheaper and
it's obvious when I look at the prices of the boilers on line. The
Gloworms typically go for about £700 and the Kestons £1600.

Considering the fact that the house is a semi-detached period house (no
double glazing etc.) that would happily house a family of five or even
six are both of these boilers suitable and is the Keston going to be a
lot better? Is its only advantage its increased power output or are
Kestons generally better anyway?

Thanks

See the Boiler Choice FAQ.

My boiler choice is subject to a number of factors (unless the customer
has fixed ideas).

Kestons when the flue route is complex, the cost saving in using the
plastic pipe rather than proprietary parts is vast.

About the only advantage these days. Not sure about the Qudos reliability.

Vaillants for combi and plain heating up 24kW (N.B. the 24kW combi can
only do 19kW heating).

Worceter-Bosch for non-combi 24kW , and when keeping a open header
primary circuit.

I'd look at Veissman and MHT if someone wanted me too but I'd work hard to
talk people out of anything below mid-market.

The Broag range are the best price/performance available in quality kit.
Their control system is OpenTherm with weather compensation as standard, and
beats all of those, although Viessmann and Keston do have OpenTherm. The
Broag has a duel temperature boiler temperature system - calls for DHW and
the boiler runs up to maximum temp, after it reverts to weather
compensation. Broag are better than Vaillant...and much cheaper too.
http://www.avantaplus.co.uk

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

I've got a Keston C25 (no longer manufactured).
I bought mine in 2002, probably about half way through the
manufacturing life of that model. At that time, Keston
manufactured only condensing boilers (even before they became
almost mandatory), and hence their customers were primarily
DIY people like me who were willing to spend money on
technology,

Keston had a boiler that was super simple (forget the number) - discontinued
around 2001. It never had a pcb. It was simple and never needed the heat
exchanger cleaning either. A fit and forget model. When fitted to rads it
cycled like hell, unless they were over large rads. Many selfbuilders
fitted them to thermal stores doing UFH. Then they shined and never cycled
at all. The perfect match for a store.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:30:38 +0000, Donwill wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
I'd look at Veissman and MHT if someone wanted me too but I'd work hard
to talk people out of anything below mid-market.

Did a search on MHT boilers "nothing". Google suggested MHS Boilers, did
you mean MHS or am I missing something here Ed? Don

Yes MHS, The late Andy Hall condiered these the best (and probably the
most expensive - up front!) boiler.

I put him onto it. It was always way ahead of all others on the control
system, to the point it stood out - many are catching up, like Keston and
Broag. It also modulates down to around 3kW. The lowest of any domestic
boiler I know of, unless a few others have now reached this I don't know of.

Some models are rebadged under Eco-Hometec.