I am in search of a loo cistern ...

99% of loo pans are either close coupled or back to the wall but mine
is the traditional shape

I dont want a traditional shaped cistern above it, or an Edwardian
styled one. Ideally I'd like a modern looking ceramic push button
cistern but they dont seem to exist for standard shaped loos

Which leaves me with two options. The simple one is to have a
concealed cistern but before I go that route I wonder just what is
special about a close coupled cistern? Could I use one with a non
close coupled pan?

I went to have a look at some close coupled loos in a showroom today
but they were all connected up so I couldnt get a good look so my
questions are ...

- Is the pipe between the cistern and the loo the same diameter as it
would be on a non-closecoupled loo?

- Does the cistern hang off the wall or does it sit on the pan?

- Where the cistern meets the pan, is the shape of the cistern going
to look odd if there isnt a pan joined directly to it?

Thankyou
Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: * (+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

Anna Kettle wrote:

I went to have a look at some close coupled loos in a showroom today
but they were all connected up so I couldnt get a good look so my
questions are ...

- Is the pipe between the cistern and the loo the same diameter as it
would be on a non-closecoupled loo?

What pipe? The ones I've seen just have a big rubber "donut" as a washer.

Anna Kettle wrote:
I am in search of a loo cistern ...

99% of loo pans are either close coupled or back to the wall but mine
is the traditional shape

I dont want a traditional shaped cistern above it, or an Edwardian
styled one. Ideally I'd like a modern looking ceramic push button
cistern but they dont seem to exist for standard shaped loos

Which leaves me with two options. The simple one is to have a
concealed cistern but before I go that route I wonder just what is
special about a close coupled cistern? Could I use one with a non
close coupled pan?

I went to have a look at some close coupled loos in a showroom today
but they were all connected up so I couldnt get a good look so my
questions are ...

- Is the pipe between the cistern and the loo the same diameter as it
would be on a non-closecoupled loo?

- Does the cistern hang off the wall or does it sit on the pan?

- Where the cistern meets the pan, is the shape of the cistern going
to look odd if there isnt a pan joined directly to it?

Thankyou
Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: (+44) 01359 230642
Mob: (+44) 07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk
our close coupled cistern is flat across the bottom, the bracket that
joins the two parts together is only held on by the syphon so it can be
removed, so I guess you could a pipe to it but from memory its not
glazed at this joint as its normally not seen

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:29:13 +0000, Anna Kettle wrote:

I am in search of a loo cistern ...

99% of loo pans are either close coupled or back to the wall but mine
is the traditional shape

I dont want a traditional shaped cistern above it, or an Edwardian
styled one. Ideally I'd like a modern looking ceramic push button
cistern but they dont seem to exist for standard shaped loos

Which leaves me with two options. The simple one is to have a
concealed cistern but before I go that route I wonder just what is
special about a close coupled cistern? Could I use one with a non
close coupled pan?

I went to have a look at some close coupled loos in a showroom today
but they were all connected up so I couldnt get a good look so my
questions are ...

- Is the pipe between the cistern and the loo the same diameter as it
would be on a non-closecoupled loo?

- Does the cistern hang off the wall or does it sit on the pan?

- Where the cistern meets the pan, is the shape of the cistern going
to look odd if there isnt a pan joined directly to it?

Thankyou
Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: * (+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

=========================================
Two points to consider; your pan (non close coupled) probably has the
entry point (for flush water) at the back of the pan but the close
coupled type usually has flush water entry on top and the joint between
pan and cistern is sealed with a thick doughnut washer (about 3" diameter
x 1" thick). The second point is that the cistern (close coupled) is
supported *mainly* by the pan and the two screws (at the back) holding it
to the wall are *mainly* to locate it correctly. I think that the cistern
would break under its own weight if you tried to support it only by the
two screws.

I believe that you could overcome both of the above potential problems.
The first by using an adapter washer or bung (about 2" diameter)of some
kind at the bottom of the cistern with a modified (or possibly
flexible) connecting pipe. Supporting the cistern wouldn't be a major
problem because there is a range of supporting brackets available. These
were in use until quite recently for low level separate pans / cisterns
and of course there were the elaborate brackets used on high level
cisterns.

A quick browse at Wickes or B&Q should give you some idea of what's
available in the way of pipes and washers but you might find it easier to
make your own cistern support brackets.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Anna Kettle wrote:

I am in search of a loo cistern ...

99% of loo pans are either close coupled or back to the wall but mine
is the traditional shape

I dont want a traditional shaped cistern above it, or an Edwardian
styled one. Ideally I'd like a modern looking ceramic push button
cistern but they dont seem to exist for standard shaped loos

Which leaves me with two options. The simple one is to have a
concealed cistern but before I go that route I wonder just what is
special about a close coupled cistern? Could I use one with a non
close coupled pan?

I went to have a look at some close coupled loos in a showroom today
but they were all connected up so I couldnt get a good look so my
questions are ...

- Is the pipe between the cistern and the loo the same diameter as it
would be on a non-closecoupled loo?

- Does the cistern hang off the wall or does it sit on the pan?

- Where the cistern meets the pan, is the shape of the cistern going
to look odd if there isnt a pan joined directly to it?

Thankyou
Anna

As far as I know, you can use more or less any cistern on either a
close-coupled or rear-entry pan.

Each cistern has a large hole at the bottom through which the threaded
outlet pipe from the syphon protrudes, held in place by a large (usually
plastic) nut.

If used with a close-coupled pan, this oulet pipe simply has a large rubber
doughnut round it which seals between cistern and pan. The large plastic nut
also holds a cranked metal plate in place. Two bolts extend downwards from
the right and left of the plate to attach it to the pan.

If used with a conventional pan, an additional fitting screws onto the
syphon outlet pipe, to attach a J-shaped pipe which goes down and into the
back of the pan.

In the close-coupled setup, the weight of the cistern is supported by the
pan - and it's just steadied by a couple of screw into the wall. With a
conventional pan, the cistern needs a couple of wall-mounted brackets under
it for support.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Thanks for your comments ...

So it seems that the concept is possible and now I have to decide
whether it is worth the faff to find and fit a close coupled type
cistern or whether it will be easier to just get a hidden cistern and
box it in ...

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: * (+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

Roger Mills wrote:

In the close-coupled setup, the weight of the cistern is supported by the
pan - and it's just steadied by a couple of screw into the wall. With a
conventional pan, the cistern needs a couple of wall-mounted brackets
under it for support.

The brackets probably aren't necessary. The low level cistern in our
previous house was held up with just 2 screws and had been like that for
about 40 years by the time we moved out. The current house has 2 toilets,
one close-coupled and one low level. The low level one is supported by just
a couple of Rawlbolts, it's probably been there for ten to twenty years and
is showing no sign of wanting to part company from the wall.

--
Mike Clarke

"Mike Clarke" wrote in message
et...
Roger Mills wrote:

In the close-coupled setup, the weight of the cistern is supported by the
pan - and it's just steadied by a couple of screw into the wall. With a
conventional pan, the cistern needs a couple of wall-mounted brackets
under it for support.

The brackets probably aren't necessary. The low level cistern in our
previous house was held up with just 2 screws and had been like that for
about 40 years by the time we moved out. The current house has 2 toilets,
one close-coupled and one low level. The low level one is supported by
just
a couple of Rawlbolts, it's probably been there for ten to twenty years
and
is showing no sign of wanting to part company from the wall.

--
Mike Clarke

.............until the flush diaphragm starts to fail and people get violent
with the handle!

John wrote:

............until the flush diaphragm starts to fail and people get
violent with the handle!

That's happened several times and it still stayed on the wall.

--
Mike Clarke

Roger Mills wrote:
SNIP

As far as I know, you can use more or less any cistern on either a
close-coupled or rear-entry pan.

Each cistern has a large hole at the bottom through which the threaded
outlet pipe from the syphon protrudes, held in place by a large
(usually plastic) nut.

If used with a close-coupled pan, this oulet pipe simply has a large
rubber doughnut round it which seals between cistern and pan. The
large plastic nut also holds a cranked metal plate in place. Two
bolts extend downwards from the right and left of the plate to attach
it to the pan.

Some of the close coupled ones have SS bolts & cone shaped rubber washers
which go through holes in the bottom of the cistern, that type wouldn't be
ideal for a J pipe connection.

If used with a conventional pan, an additional fitting screws onto the
syphon outlet pipe, to attach a J-shaped pipe which goes down and
into the back of the pan.

In the close-coupled setup, the weight of the cistern is supported by
the pan - and it's just steadied by a couple of screw into the wall.
With a conventional pan, the cistern needs a couple of wall-mounted
brackets under it for support.

I've only ever come across lightweight plastic cisterns like this, which are
just held by 2 screws, no brackets - they seem to hold up OK. Now you
mention it though, thats quite a weight of water being held by just 2
screws.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Mike Clarke wrote:
John wrote:

............until the flush diaphragm starts to fail and people get
violent with the handle!

That's happened several times and it still stayed on the wall.

They do seem to stay put.

If you ever replace one its a right bugger getting the rusty screws out!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:24:41 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Mike Clarke wrote:
John wrote:

............until the flush diaphragm starts to fail and people get
violent with the handle!

That's happened several times and it still stayed on the wall.

They do seem to stay put.

If you ever replace one its a right bugger getting the rusty screws out!

=========================================
A good reason to use hex head coach screws for this kind of job and for
radiators. Much less danger of damaging with hex head / socket spanner
combination.

Cic.
--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I've only ever come across lightweight plastic cisterns like this, which
are just held by 2 screws, no brackets - they seem to hold up OK. *Now you
mention it though, thats quite a weight of water being held by just 2
screws.

Not much weight really, even an old 9 litre cistern would only hold 9Kg of
water.

--
Mike Clarke

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Roger Mills wrote:
SNIP

As far as I know, you can use more or less any cistern on either a
close-coupled or rear-entry pan.

Each cistern has a large hole at the bottom through which the threaded
outlet pipe from the syphon protrudes, held in place by a large
(usually plastic) nut.

If used with a close-coupled pan, this oulet pipe simply has a large
rubber doughnut round it which seals between cistern and pan. The
large plastic nut also holds a cranked metal plate in place. Two
bolts extend downwards from the right and left of the plate to attach
it to the pan.

Some of the close coupled ones have SS bolts & cone shaped rubber washers
which go through holes in the bottom of the cistern, that type wouldn't be
ideal for a J pipe connection.

If used with a conventional pan, an additional fitting screws onto the
syphon outlet pipe, to attach a J-shaped pipe which goes down and
into the back of the pan.

In the close-coupled setup, the weight of the cistern is supported by
the pan - and it's just steadied by a couple of screw into the wall.
With a conventional pan, the cistern needs a couple of wall-mounted
brackets under it for support.

I've only ever come across lightweight plastic cisterns like this, which
are just held by 2 screws, no brackets - they seem to hold up OK. Now you
mention it though, thats quite a weight of water being held by just 2
screws.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



My close coupled one has some very rusty screw heads - but of course the
weight is taken by the pan

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Anna Kettle) saying
something like:

I dont want a traditional shaped cistern above it, or an Edwardian
styled one. Ideally I'd like a modern looking ceramic push button
cistern but they dont seem to exist for standard shaped loos

Which leaves me with two options. The simple one is to have a
concealed cistern but before I go that route I wonder just what is
special about a close coupled cistern? Could I use one with a non
close coupled pan?

You certainly can, for most of them. Just add in a conventional flush
kit and pipe along with the push-button kit and mix and match the bits
you need. Basically, most close-coupled cisterns have the same bottom
hole as a normal one and holding it up is accomplished by brackets
underneath as convention.

Of course, if you choose some Italian piece of china, all bets are off.