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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Moisture?
My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour
through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. My mate doesn't care because the insurance co are paying, but do I detect the smell of bull****e here? I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Where does the 17% 'criteria' come from? And isn't 100% moisture content - just water? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#2
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Moisture?
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Building surveyors use moisture meters on the brickwork of old buildings, to check if the dampcourse hasn't been breached. Bertie |
#3
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Moisture?
The Medway Handyman wrote:
My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. If the ceiling is plasterboard and it is not actually 'falling' apart (some minor bulging is allowed) - then if it's left alone to dry naturally it will be ok. My mate doesn't care because the insurance co are paying, but do I detect the smell of bull****e here? Depends on the severity of the damage - and if the ceiling has retained its position after a 'soaking' and a moisture meter has to be used to detect the damp, then the answer is *no*. I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Where does the 17% 'criteria' come from? And isn't 100% moisture content - just water? One can also be used on walls (to detect rising damp etc) - and as for 'moisture content' your own body is around 90% moisture (IIRC so don't hang me on that one) and the moisture content of the timber that you use in your decking is around 18% - 22% - oh! and a 100% moisture content of the plasterboard will guarantee a new ceiling. :-) A tip BTW, to reduce water damage to a plasterboard ceiling after a leak, find the lowest point where the water is coming from and simply bang a screwdriver through the ceiling and let the water drain into a bucket below - and then leave well alone until the ceiling is dry - This will usually 'save' around 60% to 80% of them. Seen hundreds of 'em Dave over the years - even in my own house when the CH sprang a leak. Tanner-'op Who must be in a good mood tonight. |
#4
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Moisture?
In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes: I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? The reading is only valid on wood. The meter (or any multi meter) is useful to indicate presence of moisture in masonary, but the only way to actually measure it is to take a lump of the masonary, weigh it, dry it out, and weigh it again to see how much mosture was present. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#5
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Moisture?
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , "The Medway Handyman" writes: I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? The reading is only valid on wood. The meter (or any multi meter) is useful to indicate presence of moisture in masonary, but the only way to actually measure it is to take a lump of the masonary, weigh it, dry it out, and weigh it again to see how much mosture was present. Thats what I thought. I wonder where this 17% is acceptable 'criteria' came from? The 100% moisture content also confuses me. If we adopt your rational test, 100% moisture content must be water? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#6
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Moisture?
On Oct 14, 8:16*pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. |
#7
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Moisture?
I'm told that the salts that may be present in many materials can
strongly influence conductivity, particularly where it's caused my migrating damp, as salts can be transported and concentrated. I'd imagine to get an accurate reading you would need a set of samples of that material at known moisture levels to calibrate from, as I wouldn't expect conductivity to be particularly linear with moisture content, or consistent between different materials. |
#8
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Moisture?
wrote in message On Oct 14, 8:16 pm, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. My mate doesn't care because the insurance co are paying, but do I detect the smell of bull****e here? I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Where does the 17% 'criteria' come from? And isn't 100% moisture content - just water? Indeed. An unusual ceiling construction there. Seriosly those meters are well known for their inaccuracy when used on things other than wood. This is a handy ref by buildingpreservation.com, highlighting the difference between carbide (invasive) and electric (non-invasive) moisture meters http://preview.tinyurl.com/4fnwya I know the RICS caution surveyors about relying overmuch on meters and prefer experience, touch, smell etc to determine damp. However the may be some further notes in the links in RICS Books: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3toz74 Bertie |
#9
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Moisture?
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote: They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. A perfectly good tool used by charlatans for a purpose it wasn't designed for. -- *Change is inevitable ... except from vending machines * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#10
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Moisture?
The Medway Handyman wrote:
My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. My mate doesn't care because the insurance co are paying, but do I detect the smell of bull****e here? I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Where does the 17% 'criteria' come from? And isn't 100% moisture content - just water? 17% is the level at which softwood supposedly ceases to be vulnerable to a whole load of fungal infections. Scandinavian redwood is termed "shipping dry" at 17%, mainly to avoid the dreaded blue stain. |
#11
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Moisture?
stuart noble wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote: My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. My mate doesn't care because the insurance co are paying, but do I detect the smell of bull****e here? I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Where does the 17% 'criteria' come from? And isn't 100% moisture content - just water? 17% is the level at which softwood supposedly ceases to be vulnerable to a whole load of fungal infections. Scandinavian redwood is termed "shipping dry" at 17%, mainly to avoid the dreaded blue stain. I rather thought 17% was the average 'outdoors but undercover' content that wood dried out to if left long enough. |
#12
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Moisture?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
stuart noble wrote: The Medway Handyman wrote: My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. My mate doesn't care because the insurance co are paying, but do I detect the smell of bull****e here? I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Where does the 17% 'criteria' come from? And isn't 100% moisture content - just water? 17% is the level at which softwood supposedly ceases to be vulnerable to a whole load of fungal infections. Scandinavian redwood is termed "shipping dry" at 17%, mainly to avoid the dreaded blue stain. I rather thought 17% was the average 'outdoors but undercover' content that wood dried out to if left long enough. Well, it's that too, and the level at which it can be machined without tearing the grain. All good reasons why timber exporters need to get it down to that level prior to shipping, especially as it often spends months strapped up in 5 cubic metre packs without any circulation of air between the pieces. |
#13
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Moisture?
On Oct 15, 8:37*am, "Bertie Doe" wrote:
wrote in message On Oct 14, 8:16 pm, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: My mate over the road had a leak in the bathroom causing water to pour through the ceiling & soak the hall carpet. He reported it to his insurance co, who sent Chem Dri around to do a report. They used a 'moisture meter' and determined that the ceiling had a 20% moisture content and the flooring 100%. Apparently the 'criteria' is that below 17% moisture in a floor or ceiling needs no action, anything above does. My mate doesn't care because the insurance co are paying, but do I detect the smell of bull****e here? I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Where does the 17% 'criteria' come from? And isn't 100% moisture content - just water? Indeed. An unusual ceiling construction there. Seriosly those meters are well known for their inaccuracy when used on things other than wood. This is a handy ref by buildingpreservation.com, highlighting the difference between carbide (invasive) and electric (non-invasive) moisture metershttp://preview.tinyurl.com/4fnwya Some interesting points in that article, but at the end of the day its just another example of very biased writing reaching a conclusion not logically supported. To explain further: Frst the article completely ignores a number of real world issues, such as changes in conductitivety caused by: past spills contamination deposits from past leaks kitchen cooking contamination detergent contamination inappropriately applied foil backed paper lime mortar behind cement mortar These things are common in century old properties, which is the type of property these damp detectors are most used on. Then there are several issues the article mentions, but then chooses to overlook: Lime mortar giving high readings Lime plaster ditto Presence of salts from sources other than a present damp problem Damp at non-problem levels "Unfortunately, the majority of surveyors do not appear to understand how an electrical moisture meter should be used" "using it like this will almost certainly lead to a high number of wrong diagnoses!" transient surface condensation condensation Surface readings being a problem in winter Surface readings being a problem in summer "The isolated individual readings obtained during most surveys are of little value and will certainly increase the chances of misdiagnosis!" There are some good points made in the article, but as a piece of logical writing it simply isn't. NT |
#14
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Moisture?
wrote in message On Oct 15, 8:37 am, "Bertie Doe" wrote: This is a handy ref by buildingpreservation.com, highlighting the difference between carbide (invasive) and electric (non-invasive) moisture metershttp://preview.tinyurl.com/4fnwya Some interesting points in that article, but at the end of the day its just another example of very biased writing reaching a conclusion not logically supported. To explain further: Frst the article completely ignores a number of real world issues, such as changes in conductitivety caused by: past spills contamination deposits from past leaks kitchen cooking contamination detergent contamination inappropriately applied foil backed paper lime mortar behind cement mortar snip Agreed and this is a much better article by Jeff Howell of South Bank Uni http://tinyurl.com/485onl BD |
#15
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Moisture?
Bertie Doe wrote:
wrote in message On Oct 15, 8:37 am, "Bertie Doe" wrote: This is a handy ref by buildingpreservation.com, highlighting the difference between carbide (invasive) and electric (non-invasive) moisture metershttp://preview.tinyurl.com/4fnwya Some interesting points in that article, but at the end of the day its just another example of very biased writing reaching a conclusion not logically supported. To explain further: Frst the article completely ignores a number of real world issues, such as changes in conductitivety caused by: past spills contamination deposits from past leaks kitchen cooking contamination detergent contamination inappropriately applied foil backed paper lime mortar behind cement mortar snip Agreed and this is a much better article by Jeff Howell of South Bank Uni http://tinyurl.com/485onl Thanks for that, interesting reading. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#16
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Moisture?
On Oct 15, 10:31*pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: Bertie Doe wrote: wrote in message On Oct 15, 8:37 am, "Bertie Doe" wrote: This is a handy ref by buildingpreservation.com, highlighting the *difference between carbide (invasive) and electric (non-invasive) moisture *metershttp://preview.tinyurl.com/4fnwya Some interesting points in that article, but at the end of the day its just another example of very biased writing reaching a conclusion not logically supported. To explain further: Frst the article completely ignores a number of real world issues, such as changes in conductitivety caused by: past spills contamination deposits from past leaks kitchen cooking contamination detergent contamination inappropriately applied foil backed paper lime mortar behind cement mortar * * * * * * * * snip Agreed and this is a much better article by Jeff Howell of South Bank Unihttp://tinyurl.com/485onl Thanks for that, interesting reading. Ta, will check that out when more awake NT |
#17
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Moisture?
Bertie Doe wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message I thought moisture meters were only useable on wood, not floors & ceilings? Building surveyors use moisture meters on the brickwork of old buildings, to check if the dampcourse hasn't been breached. Not proper ones; only those trying to sell unnecessary DPCs use them. Oh, and estate agents. -- Hugo Nebula "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed"? |
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