just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

On Oct 9, 3:17*pm, "George" wrote:
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

It's more a feature of the type of lock, rather than the door. What is
a DG door, anyway?

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 3:17 pm, "George" wrote:
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

It's more a feature of the type of lock, rather than the door. What is
a DG door, anyway?

Double Glazed

"George" wrote in message
om...
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

Assuming it was a euro cyinder you might not have been able to open the door
even if you had a key, often a key left in the lock on the inside stops a
key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.

Scabbydug coughed up some electrons that declared:


"George" wrote in message
om...
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a
new letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

Assuming it was a euro cyinder you might not have been able to open the
door even if you had a key, often a key left in the lock on the inside
stops a key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.

I've just come across this with the new doors the landlord's just had
fitted. Bloody annoying. Something to check when I buy new door locks for
the bungalow...

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
Scabbydug coughed up some electrons that declared:

"George" wrote in message
om...
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a
new letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.
Assuming it was a euro cyinder you might not have been able to open the
door even if you had a key, often a key left in the lock on the inside
stops a key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.

I've just come across this with the new doors the landlord's just had
fitted. Bloody annoying. Something to check when I buy new door locks for
the bungalow...

Same as an ordinary mortice lock, then?

David

"Owain" wrote in message
et...
George wrote:
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a
new letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

Good job you weren't a burglar.

Owain



True :-) since found out that the key doesn't have to be in the door ie if
the door isn't locked a tap of the barrel from the inside releases that
notch that keeps the door from opening on the outside.
So in effect had I got a piece of wood and done the above I'd of been in but
I struggled to try and get the key out with a piece of wire coat hanger.
duh!

Assuming it was a euro cyinder you might not have been able to open the
door even if you had a key, often a key left in the lock on the inside
stops a key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.

I've just come across this with the new doors the landlord's just had
fitted. Bloody annoying. Something to check when I buy new door locks for
the bungalow...

Same as an ordinary mortice lock, then?

Nope, totally different mechanically.

Scabbydug wrote:
Assuming it was a euro cyinder you might not have been able to open the
door even if you had a key, often a key left in the lock on the inside
stops a key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.
I've just come across this with the new doors the landlord's just had
fitted. Bloody annoying. Something to check when I buy new door locks for
the bungalow...
Same as an ordinary mortice lock, then?

Nope, totally different mechanically.

I know, I meant in terms of:

...a key left in the lock on the inside
stops a key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.

David

In article , Lobster
writes
Tim S wrote:
Scabbydug coughed up some electrons that declared:

"George" wrote in message
om...
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a
new letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.
Assuming it was a euro cyinder you might not have been able to open the
door even if you had a key, often a key left in the lock on the inside
stops a key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.

I've just come across this with the new doors the landlord's just had
fitted. Bloody annoying. Something to check when I buy new door locks for
the bungalow...

Same as an ordinary mortice lock, then?

Except that standard mortice locks don't slam lock behind you, which I
think was the problem.

For Tim, if you do want euro then you can get double cylinders that
allow unlocking from the outside with the key inserted inside but they
are the exception rather than the norm. I can't for the life of me
remember the term used to describe such cylinders but a locksmith will
know what you're on about and should do supply only, they're an easy
fit.

I prefer a conventional mortice lock and upper cylinder lock on wooden
doors so don't have this kind of problem.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

Lobster coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:
Scabbydug coughed up some electrons that declared:

"George" wrote in message
om...
just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a
locksmith,no windows open to get through but managed to get in...will
have to buy a new letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the
lock inside.
Assuming it was a euro cyinder you might not have been able to open the
door even if you had a key, often a key left in the lock on the inside
stops a key inserted from the outside from unlocking the lock.

I've just come across this with the new doors the landlord's just had
fitted. Bloody annoying. Something to check when I buy new door locks for
the bungalow...

Same as an ordinary mortice lock, then?

David

Well... Except that a mortice lock has a good mechanical reason to be that
way, and if you're truely stuck, sometimes, just sometimes, you can use a
pokey think and wiggle the opposing key out.

You can't with the euro barrels and as they are actually two locks in one,
there isn't a fundamental mechanical reason for them to be that way - it's
a "feature" (in the Microsoft sense).

The overriding thing is, that you obviously can't lock yourself out with a
mortice lock as you'd have to have the lock clear inside in order to lock
it from the outside, then you have the key about your person. Your front
door with a euro barrel slams shut behind you and even if you have a key,
you're stuffed.

Having reasoned the above, I feel my statement of "bloody stupid" has moved
from emotive to logical reasoning.

Luckily, I am a pessimist, so I carry a back door key at all times too.
Handy on Tuesday, when our friend locked herself out thanks to Mr Euro...
Still had to leave work, come home, then go back.

Cheers

Tim

For Tim, if you do want euro then you can get double cylinders that allow
unlocking from the outside with the key inserted inside but they are the
exception rather than the norm. I can't for the life of me remember the
term used to describe such cylinders but a locksmith will know what you're
on about and should do supply only, they're an easy fit.

Cylinder with thumbturn is the general term, in premises such as hotels &
guest houses the fire officer usually insists on them.
On external doors in private properties the insurance companies are a bit
iffy about them, if someone breaks in through a window for instance, they
can open the door from the inside and let their mates in and escape easily
with the loot.

Scabbydug coughed up some electrons that declared:





For Tim, if you do want euro then you can get double cylinders that allow
unlocking from the outside with the key inserted inside but they are the
exception rather than the norm. I can't for the life of me remember the
term used to describe such cylinders but a locksmith will know what
you're on about and should do supply only, they're an easy fit.

Cylinder with thumbturn is the general term, in premises such as hotels &
guest houses the fire officer usually insists on them.
On external doors in private properties the insurance companies are a bit
iffy about them, if someone breaks in through a window for instance, they
can open the door from the inside and let their mates in and escape easily
with the loot.

Thanks both of you - I know what to ask for now

One day, when I get fancy, I'd love to put an electronic proximity lock on,
so I can just walk in when laden with shopping.

Cheers

Tim

Scabbydug coughed up some electrons that declared:


Cylinder with thumbturn is the general term, in premises such as hotels &
guest houses the fire officer usually insists on them.
On external doors in private properties the insurance companies are a bit
iffy about them, if someone breaks in through a window for instance, they
can open the door from the inside and let their mates in and escape
easily with the loot.

Oh - and to consider the "thumbturn" aspect:

Had one of these on my last flat - it was backed up with a mortice lock.

I leave the key in lock at night to aid escape in a fire.

I also reckon, that if the burglimen get in your house, it's better to give
them a direct means of escape. That way, should you surprise them in the
act, you've got a better chance they'll take flight out the door, rather
than finding it deadlocked, being trapped between you and it then coshing
you on the way past (cornered rat syndrome).

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:

One day, when I get fancy, I'd love to put an electronic proximity lock on,
so I can just walk in when laden with shopping.


Simple way to do that. Trot along to the local vet and ask to be
microchipped (same as done to Fido the pet). Shouldn't cost or hurt (much).

Then ask about one of those RFID controlled cat flaps, which vets sell
at a discount rather than those offered online by JW ents. Gut one of
them and tie the electronics to an electrically operated lock and put
the sensor at a height somewhere close to the scruff of ye neck.

Sorted. Woof!

--
Adrian C

Adrian C coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:

One day, when I get fancy, I'd love to put an electronic proximity lock
on, so I can just walk in when laden with shopping.


Simple way to do that. Trot along to the local vet and ask to be
microchipped (same as done to Fido the pet). Shouldn't cost or hurt
(much).

I *could* wait for the State to do it - sure it's on their roundtuit list
somewhere....

Then ask about one of those RFID controlled cat flaps, which vets sell
at a discount rather than those offered online by JW ents. Gut one of
them and tie the electronics to an electrically operated lock and put
the sensor at a height somewhere close to the scruff of ye neck.

Sorted. Woof!


And dispense me a pint when I walk into the kitchen. Perhaps the Professor
of Cybernetics at Reading (if he's still there) has done it already...

In article , Tim S
writes
Scabbydug coughed up some electrons that declared:

For Tim, if you do want euro then you can get double cylinders that allow
unlocking from the outside with the key inserted inside but they are the
exception rather than the norm. I can't for the life of me remember the
term used to describe such cylinders but a locksmith will know what
you're on about and should do supply only, they're an easy fit.

Cylinder with thumbturn is the general term, in premises such as hotels &
guest houses the fire officer usually insists on them.
On external doors in private properties the insurance companies are a bit
iffy about them, if someone breaks in through a window for instance, they
can open the door from the inside and let their mates in and escape easily
with the loot.

Thanks both of you - I know what to ask for now

A thumbturn wasn't what I was referring to but it sounds like you're not
to fussed about having the door openable from the inside without a key
(which is what a thumbturn cylinder does). The original problem (aside
from the slam lockout) was that leaving a key on the inside of a double
cylinder (keyslot on inside and outside) usually means that you can't
unlock the door from the outside. The name of a double cylinder where
this isn't a problem still escapes me but it something like safety
cylinder (but isn't).

One day, when I get fancy, I'd love to put an electronic proximity lock on,
so I can just walk in when laden with shopping.

Nice idea but they just don't make them strong enough.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

fred coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article , Tim S

One day, when I get fancy, I'd love to put an electronic proximity lock
on, so I can just walk in when laden with shopping.

Nice idea but they just don't make them strong enough.

I wasn't thinking necessarily of a Yale-type electric strike plate: I agree
they are horribly weak.

When I worked at Imperial College, we had an electronic coded proximity lock
on the computer room door, which was secured with a combination of maglock
and electric shoot bolt.

The maglocks aren't invincible (big bloke can shoulder them) and need
permanent power, but the shoot bolt was pretty solid, being buried in the
door.

The only thing with that is it didn't have a physical override from inside,
though it there might be options.

Cheers

Tim

On Oct 9, 3:43*pm, "George" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...
On Oct 9, 3:17 pm, "George" wrote:

just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

It's more a feature of the type of lock, rather than the door. What is
a DG door, anyway?

Double Glazed

Right, so it is the lock that's the problem, not the door.

MBQ

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 3:43 pm, "George" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...
On Oct 9, 3:17 pm, "George" wrote:

just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a
new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

It's more a feature of the type of lock, rather than the door. What is
a DG door, anyway?

Double Glazed

Right, so it is the lock that's the problem, not the door.

MBQ

Well yeah...but isnt it fair to say that the lock is an integral part of the
door pertaining to DG doors?

In article , Tim S
writes

I wasn't thinking necessarily of a Yale-type electric strike plate: I agree
they are horribly weak.

When I worked at Imperial College, we had an electronic coded proximity lock
on the computer room door, which was secured with a combination of maglock
and electric shoot bolt.

The maglocks aren't invincible (big bloke can shoulder them) and need
permanent power, but the shoot bolt was pretty solid, being buried in the
door.

I've looked at similar ideas in the past and came to the conclusion that
even the best were weak compared with the cheapest of BS3621 approved
mortice deadlocks.

When you look at the build and dismantle one of those you can see the
features that have been added over the years to thwart the various
attacks that burglars come up with and none of the electrically operated
locks I have seen have them. The only exception I could think of would
be to fit a BS mortice and leave a key on the inside with a motor drive
to rotate it ;-).
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

On Oct 10, 10:16*am, "George" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...
On Oct 9, 3:43 pm, "George" wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...
On Oct 9, 3:17 pm, "George" wrote:

just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a locksmith,no
windows open to get through but managed to get in...will have to buy a
new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

It's more a feature of the type of lock, rather than the door. What is
a DG door, anyway?

Double Glazed

Right, so it is the lock that's the problem, not the door.

MBQ

Well yeah...but isnt it fair to say that the lock is an integral part of the
door pertaining to DG doors?

DG doors don't have to have locks that allow you to lock yourself out.
None of my eight DG doors allow you to lock yourself out.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:

On Oct 10, 10:16*am, "George" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in

roups.com... On Oct 9, 3:43 pm, "George"
wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in

egroups.com... On Oct 9, 3:17 pm, "George"
wrote:


DG doors don't have to have locks that allow you to lock yourself out.
None of my eight DG doors allow you to lock yourself out.

MBQ

A typical DG front door handle arrangement is Pad on the outside and
Lever inside.

The Pad handle is fixed, it will not turn.

Shut the door from outside and the only way back in is by use of the
key.



--
"S'ils te mordent, mords-les"

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:16 am, "George" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...
On Oct 9, 3:43 pm, "George" wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...
On Oct 9, 3:17 pm, "George" wrote:

just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a
locksmith,no windows open to get through but managed to get
in...will have to buy a new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

It's more a feature of the type of lock, rather than the door. What
is a DG door, anyway?

Double Glazed

Right, so it is the lock that's the problem, not the door.

MBQ

Well yeah...but isnt it fair to say that the lock is an integral
part of the
door pertaining to DG doors?

DG doors don't have to have locks that allow you to lock yourself out.
None of my eight DG doors allow you to lock yourself out.

I've never come across one that didn't lock you out. I usually pull the
inside handle up so the catches protrude & the door can't slam if I have to
pop out to the van for something.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:16 am, "George" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...
On Oct 9, 3:43 pm, "George" wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...
On Oct 9, 3:17 pm, "George" wrote:

just locked meself out and didnt have the cash of £57 for a
locksmith,no windows open to get through but managed to get
in...will have to buy a new
letterbox now though. :-( good job key was in the lock inside.

It's more a feature of the type of lock, rather than the door. What
is a DG door, anyway?

Double Glazed

Right, so it is the lock that's the problem, not the door.

MBQ

Well yeah...but isnt it fair to say that the lock is an integral
part of the
door pertaining to DG doors?

DG doors don't have to have locks that allow you to lock yourself out.
None of my eight DG doors allow you to lock yourself out.

I've never come across one that didn't lock you out. I usually pull the
inside handle up so the catches protrude & the door can't slam if I have
to pop out to the van for something.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



There are two ways you can have a stanard DG door lock Dave...
When you take the lever plate of it has two holes for the lever rod one is
for standard opening ie it wont lock when you go out and will be able to get
in if the door slas shut,the other hole is for securing the door from the
outside should you forget to lock it with the key.
At least that is what this door is capable of doing.

If you have a DG door just slip the handle plate off and you will see the
two square holes,thing is you have to change the handle to accept which way
you want the lock to operate.