Bertie Doe wrote:
News has spread along the terrace and another neighbour has joined the
syndicate. The consensus is to go for the electric, rather than score and
snap. Ed Sirett's comment about cutting comb patterns to facilitate curves
was a decisive factor. With the extra member, we can even budget in a spare
disc, if needs be.

Sigh!

There are two very different tools for two very different jobs.

Let one neighbour start, with a lot of straight-line cuts, and see how
well the electric rotary cutter works. They *do* work, but a lot more
slowly than score/snap devices, and are more flexible. For me, however,
the *significant* speed (and cleanliness) behind a score/snap is worth
the (small) cost of the additional device.

Suck-it-and-see, and write back with your findings.

"Mike Dodd" wrote in message
...
Bertie Doe wrote:
News has spread along the terrace and another neighbour has joined the
syndicate. The consensus is to go for the electric, rather than score and
snap. Ed Sirett's comment about cutting comb patterns to facilitate
curves was a decisive factor. With the extra member, we can even budget
in a spare disc, if needs be.

Sigh!

There are two very different tools for two very different jobs.

Let one neighbour start, with a lot of straight-line cuts, and see how
well the electric rotary cutter works. They *do* work, but a lot more
slowly than score/snap devices, and are more flexible. For me, however,
the *significant* speed (and cleanliness) behind a score/snap is worth the
(small) cost of the additional device.

Suck-it-and-see, and write back with your findings.

I absolutely agree. I have just been tiling my daughter's bathroom refit,
and have taken my Screwfix (all metal) electric round to her house, to
supplement the B&Q 15 quid score 'n' snap cutter that she bought for the
job. 90% of the cuts are 'straight' and are done with the scorer. Even if
the tile surface is textured, as long as it's not wildly so, the scorer
still works just fine. The electric cutter is only used for those cuts that
are not readily done with the scorer, such as comb-cut curves, removing
squares from corners - which can be done by multiple scores and nibbling
with pliers, but is actually done quicker by the electric - for cutting thin
pieces which it is not possible to do with a scorer, and for taking off the
odd 'blade width' to get a full sized tile into a tight gap. The only thing
that I would warn about when using a score 'n' snap cutter, is not to try to
use the single action snapper feature on tiles thicker than about 6mm, and
larger than 150 x 150. You are better off with larger tiles to line up the
score on a straight edge such as a piece of old laminate flooring, and then
break either with pressure from the heel of the hand on the overhanging
piece, whilst holding the other side firmly down with the other hand, or
'karate chopping' the overhanging side.

In my opinion, you need both tools to complement one another. If you try to
do it all with the electric, you will be at it between you until Christmas,
and then cleaning up after, until Easter ... Plus, you will be filling up
the water hopper after every couple of cuts.

Just to throw an extra spanner in the works, four other very useful little
tiling tools are a diamond chip encrusted wire bladed tile saw (looks a bit
like a woodworking coping saw), a tile file, a grouting squeegee, and pin
profiler if you need to cut a tile around any 'odd' shapes. If you pop into
a Topps or Tiles R Us store, they carry all these items and they are quite
reasonably priced. If you go in anyway, they would be happy to advise you
what are the most suitable tools for your job. IME, there is usually at
least one member of staff who knows what he is talking about.

As far as fixing your enclosure goes, yes, it should be after the tiling,
but the tray should, of course, be fitted before tiling, so that the tiles
'overhang' the edge of the tray. This means that if you start the bottom row
of tiles with a full tile immediately above the skirting, the chances are
that you will then have several cut tiles above the tray, as the tray will
most likely not be the same height as your skirting. As someone else
commented, planning is absolutely key to doing a good job with tiling. IMO,
there's no DIY job that looks worse than a half-arsed attempt at a large
area tile ...

Arfa

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
In my opinion, you need both tools to complement one another. If you try
to do it all with the electric, you will be at it between you until
Christmas, and then cleaning up after, until Easter ... Plus, you will
be filling up the water hopper after every couple of cuts.

Your one must have a leak. Or more likely you're not setting the blade
guard correctly so water is getting thrown everywhere.

As regards it taking *much* longer it depends. If you have several cuts
the same to make not having to mark up every one reduces that difference.
And when I used score and snap I often had to dress the cut edge where it
could be touched - otherwise it would be too sharp. You get a perfect
smooth cut with a power one.

To put it in a nutshell, a power one will do everything that a score and
snap can do and more - but to a higher standard of cut. The *only*
advantage score and snap has is speed - and that may not matter so much
for DIY as the extra thinking time can be useful, as can the lower wastage.

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
In my opinion, you need both tools to complement one another. If you try
to do it all with the electric, you will be at it between you until
Christmas, and then cleaning up after, until Easter ... Plus, you will
be filling up the water hopper after every couple of cuts.

Your one must have a leak. Or more likely you're not setting the blade
guard correctly so water is getting thrown everywhere.

As regards it taking *much* longer it depends. If you have several cuts
the same to make not having to mark up every one reduces that difference.
And when I used score and snap I often had to dress the cut edge where it
could be touched - otherwise it would be too sharp. You get a perfect
smooth cut with a power one.

With ceramics I can't think of a situation where a cut edge would be
exposed. It either goes into a corner, or behind tile trim or an
electrical fitting. Now that Andy is no longer with us, I suppose I can
mention tile trim....



To put it in a nutshell, a power one will do everything that a score and
snap can do and more - but to a higher standard of cut. The *only*
advantage score and snap has is speed - and that may not matter so much
for DIY as the extra thinking time can be useful, as can the lower wastage.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
In my opinion, you need both tools to complement one another. If you try
to do it all with the electric, you will be at it between you until
Christmas, and then cleaning up after, until Easter ... Plus, you will
be filling up the water hopper after every couple of cuts.

Your one must have a leak. Or more likely you're not setting the blade
guard correctly so water is getting thrown everywhere.

As regards it taking *much* longer it depends. If you have several cuts
the same to make not having to mark up every one reduces that difference.
And when I used score and snap I often had to dress the cut edge where it
could be touched - otherwise it would be too sharp. You get a perfect
smooth cut with a power one.

To put it in a nutshell, a power one will do everything that a score and
snap can do and more - but to a higher standard of cut. The *only*
advantage score and snap has is speed - and that may not matter so much
for DIY as the extra thinking time can be useful, as can the lower
wastage.


It doesn't have any leaks, Dave, but by the very nature of the way that the
blade picks up water, and uses it to cool the cut, a considerable amount
must be used - if only by being turned to slurry and left on the surface of
the tile and the cutter bed. I was being pedantic for effect with
demonstrating what I was saying, when I implied that you would be refilling
the water hopper "every couple of cuts", but never-the-less, in reality, it
will be often enough to be an irritation on the job, given that you will
probably be using the thing outside. I'm sure that anyone who has ever used
one will agree, that in general, they are messy, and overall, slow.

As far as getting a raggedy-arsed edge on a score and snapped tile, if your
cutting wheel is in good condition, and you score just once, briskly, and
with not more pressure than is *just* needed to score the glaze, in my
experience, 99 times out of 100, you will get a perfect edge, no worse than
you get from a diamond wet blade, especially if that wet blade is running
short of water ... :-)

And as Stuart says, on a properly planned job, no cut edges should be
exposed anyway. At the end of the day, I guess it will be down to the OP and
his chums to work with what they feel comfortable with. Clearly, they are
not experienced DIY tilers, so from that perspective, maybe the wet cutter
is a bit more skill-less, and will suit them better, but for the sake of 15
quid and a fiver for a box of cheapo tiles to practice on, split between the
three of them, I reckon it would be worth at least giving it a go the
'quick' way.

Arfa

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
Your one must have a leak. Or more likely you're not setting the blade
guard correctly so water is getting thrown everywhere.

As regards it taking *much* longer it depends. If you have several
cuts the same to make not having to mark up every one reduces that
difference. And when I used score and snap I often had to dress the
cut edge where it could be touched - otherwise it would be too sharp.
You get a perfect smooth cut with a power one.

To put it in a nutshell, a power one will do everything that a score
and snap can do and more - but to a higher standard of cut. The *only*
advantage score and snap has is speed - and that may not matter so
much for DIY as the extra thinking time can be useful, as can the
lower wastage.


It doesn't have any leaks, Dave, but by the very nature of the way that
the blade picks up water, and uses it to cool the cut, a considerable
amount must be used - if only by being turned to slurry and left on the
surface of the tile and the cutter bed.

The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

I was being pedantic for effect with demonstrating what I was saying,
when I implied that you would be refilling the water hopper "every
couple of cuts", but never-the-less, in reality, it will be often enough
to be an irritation on the job, given that you will probably be using
the thing outside.

I might top up mine once a day. And if you know it's going to need topping
up it's hardly an inconvenience to take a container of water with you?

I do like to use mine outside - simply for the better light especially
when doing freehand cuts. But not because of any mess.



I'm sure that anyone who has ever used one will
agree, that in general, they are messy, and overall, slow.

Most here rather like them. I can accept pros may prefer a snap type for
speed. Especially if using fairly basic wall tiles. Harder ones are a
different matter.

As far as getting a raggedy-arsed edge on a score and snapped tile, if
your cutting wheel is in good condition, and you score just once,
briskly, and with not more pressure than is *just* needed to score the
glaze, in my experience, 99 times out of 100, you will get a perfect
edge, no worse than you get from a diamond wet blade, especially if
that wet blade is running short of water ... :-)

You should never let it run short of water as the blades are expensive.
And do you *really* think what is a fracture is as clean as a cut with a
diamond blade? If so, I've never achieved it - or indeed seen it.

And as Stuart says, on a properly planned job, no cut edges should be
exposed anyway.

There are occasions where it can't be avoided. Round a door, for example.
Window. Etc etc.

At the end of the day, I guess it will be down to the OP and his chums
to work with what they feel comfortable with. Clearly, they are not
experienced DIY tilers, so from that perspective, maybe the wet cutter
is a bit more skill-less, and will suit them better, but for the sake of
15 quid and a fiver for a box of cheapo tiles to practice on, split
between the three of them, I reckon it would be worth at least giving
it a go the 'quick' way.

Thing is that it takes a great deal of skill/experience to do tricky cuts
without a wet tile cutter, which makes this child's play. And every job
will have some of those.

But again it really does depend on the type of tiles. Perhaps I just have
expensive tastes.

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message

As far as fixing your enclosure goes, yes, it should be after the tiling,
but the tray should, of course, be fitted before tiling, so that the tiles
'overhang' the edge of the tray. This means that if you start the bottom
row of tiles with a full tile immediately above the skirting, the
chances are that you will then have several cut tiles above the tray, as
the tray will most likely not be the same height as your skirting. As
someone else commented, planning is absolutely key to doing a good job
with tiling. IMO, there's no DIY job that looks worse than a half-arsed
attempt at a large area tile ...

Arfa
Thanks for the heads up Arfa, I had overlooked the tray tile overhang. As
you say, planning is key. We are a week away from the project and this
morning we went to a large discount warehouse and picked the shower unit,
tray and wastewater bits. No free delivery, but I managed to rope down the
tailgate.

I didn't realise the tray was so heavy. The illustrated instructions show
how to build a box platform, to give access to plumbing. They suggest
covering the platform with timber sheet (I have some 10mm marine-ply left
from an old project). Cut a hole sufficient to allow the bottle/water trap,
to mate with the hole in the tray. Then cover the ply with a layer of cement
!!! Anyone know the reason for this? TIA.
Bertie

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
In article
Arfa Daily wrote:

To put it in a nutshell, a power one will do everything that a score
and snap can do and more - but to a higher standard of cut. The *only*
advantage score and snap has is speed - and that may not matter so
much for DIY as the extra thinking time can be useful, as can the
lower wastage.


The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

My wife picked out some 10" x 8" x 7mm tiles this morning, for the bathroom
(the kitchen tiles can wait a week or so). No decision yet from us, as to
what tile cutter to use. I suspect the next few days will be spent doing
some serious planning - lot of these old houses have a lot of exposed pipes
in kitchen and bathroom. We seem reluctant to get both an electric TC and a
score & snap. Off the top of your head, how long would it take to cut a 10"
x 8" x 7mm tile .... lengthwise, with your ETC.
Bertie

On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 16:17:43 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
In article
Arfa Daily wrote:

To put it in a nutshell, a power one will do everything that a score
and snap can do and more - but to a higher standard of cut. The *only*
advantage score and snap has is speed - and that may not matter so
much for DIY as the extra thinking time can be useful, as can the
lower wastage.


The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

My wife picked out some 10" x 8" x 7mm tiles this morning, for the bathroom
(the kitchen tiles can wait a week or so). No decision yet from us, as to
what tile cutter to use. I suspect the next few days will be spent doing
some serious planning - lot of these old houses have a lot of exposed pipes
in kitchen and bathroom. We seem reluctant to get both an electric TC and a
score & snap. Off the top of your head, how long would it take to cut a 10"
x 8" x 7mm tile .... lengthwise, with your ETC.
Bertie

At a guess, 8 to 10 seconds with the plasplugs.


--
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 16:17:43 +0100, Bertie Doe wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
In article
Arfa Daily wrote:

To put it in a nutshell, a power one will do everything that a score
and snap can do and more - but to a higher standard of cut. The
*only*
advantage score and snap has is speed - and that may not matter so
much for DIY as the extra thinking time can be useful, as can the
lower wastage.


The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on
the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

My wife picked out some 10" x 8" x 7mm tiles this morning, for the
bathroom
(the kitchen tiles can wait a week or so). No decision yet from us, as to
what tile cutter to use. I suspect the next few days will be spent doing
some serious planning - lot of these old houses have a lot of exposed
pipes
in kitchen and bathroom. We seem reluctant to get both an electric TC and
a
score & snap. Off the top of your head, how long would it take to cut a
10"
x 8" x 7mm tile .... lengthwise, with your ETC.
Bertie

At a guess, 8 to 10 seconds with the plasplugs.

Thanks TW, I guess the speed of score & snap is not a real issue - compared
with the time it takes to lay a row of tiles. We're leaning towards the ETC,
simply on grounds of versatility.
Bertie

In article ,
Bertie Doe wrote:
The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

My wife picked out some 10" x 8" x 7mm tiles this morning, for the
bathroom (the kitchen tiles can wait a week or so). No decision yet
from us, as to what tile cutter to use. I suspect the next few days
will be spent doing some serious planning - lot of these old houses
have a lot of exposed pipes in kitchen and bathroom. We seem reluctant
to get both an electric TC and a score & snap. Off the top of your
head, how long would it take to cut a 10" x 8" x 7mm tile ....
lengthwise, with your ETC.

I'd guess at 30 sec or so - letting the blade do the work as you should.
Worst case being porcelain. Softer tiles a bit quicker.

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bertie Doe wrote:
The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on
the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

My wife picked out some 10" x 8" x 7mm tiles this morning, for the
bathroom (the kitchen tiles can wait a week or so). No decision yet
from us, as to what tile cutter to use. I suspect the next few days
will be spent doing some serious planning - lot of these old houses
have a lot of exposed pipes in kitchen and bathroom. We seem reluctant
to get both an electric TC and a score & snap. Off the top of your
head, how long would it take to cut a 10" x 8" x 7mm tile ....
lengthwise, with your ETC.

I'd guess at 30 sec or so - letting the blade do the work as you should.
Worst case being porcelain. Softer tiles a bit quicker.


I would agree with that. I have been working with similar sized tiles but
8mm thick, this week in my daughter's bathroom. On my Screwfix electric with
diamond blade, I would say a good 30 seconds, plus the time that it takes to
clean the slurry off after making the cut. Also, if you are going to be
using it outdoors, be it for my reasons of it being messy, or Dave's that
the light outside is better, bear in mind that they are quite noisy, which
limits your starting time on a Sunday morning, and finishing time at night
.... You know, with a good quality score 'n' snap weighing in at just 15
quid - that's a fiver each - I am really struggling with why you feel that
it's not worth getting one for the straight cuts. Is it that you don't feel
confident that you could work one without breaking a lot of tiles maybe ?

Arfa
--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message

Bertie Doe wrote:
The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on
the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

My wife picked out some 10" x 8" x 7mm tiles this morning, for the
bathroom (the kitchen tiles can wait a week or so). No decision yet
from us, as to what tile cutter to use. I suspect the next few days
will be spent doing some serious planning - lot of these old houses
have a lot of exposed pipes in kitchen and bathroom. We seem reluctant
to get both an electric TC and a score & snap. Off the top of your
head, how long would it take to cut a 10" x 8" x 7mm tile ....
lengthwise, with your ETC.

I'd guess at 30 sec or so - letting the blade do the work as you should.
Worst case being porcelain. Softer tiles a bit quicker.


I would agree with that. I have been working with similar sized tiles but
8mm thick, this week in my daughter's bathroom. On my Screwfix electric
with diamond blade, I would say a good 30 seconds, plus the time that it
takes to clean the slurry off after making the cut. Also, if you are going
to be using it outdoors, be it for my reasons of it being messy, or Dave's
that the light outside is better, bear in mind that they are quite noisy,
which limits your starting time on a Sunday morning, and finishing time at
night ... You know, with a good quality score 'n' snap weighing in at
just 15 quid - that's a fiver each - I am really struggling with why you
feel that it's not worth getting one for the straight cuts. Is it that you
don't feel confident that you could work one without breaking a lot of
tiles maybe ?

It was a collective decision to buy one gadget to do straight cuts, curved
cuts around pipework and 'L' shaped tiles around hanging kitchen cabinets.
There's also the possibility that someone might want to use it for floor
tiles. I googled up Screwfix and their ETC's will handle 30mm thick tiles.
Of course, there is always the option to go out and buy a Score & Snap, if
we find that 30 seconds on the ETC, isn't fast enough.

"Bertie Doe" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message

Bertie Doe wrote:
The only amount that is 'used' with a plasplugs is the amount left on
the
tile (or splashed around if the guard isn't set) since it has a drain
channel all the way round the bed.

My wife picked out some 10" x 8" x 7mm tiles this morning, for the
bathroom (the kitchen tiles can wait a week or so). No decision yet
from us, as to what tile cutter to use. I suspect the next few days
will be spent doing some serious planning - lot of these old houses
have a lot of exposed pipes in kitchen and bathroom. We seem reluctant
to get both an electric TC and a score & snap. Off the top of your
head, how long would it take to cut a 10" x 8" x 7mm tile ....
lengthwise, with your ETC.

I'd guess at 30 sec or so - letting the blade do the work as you should.
Worst case being porcelain. Softer tiles a bit quicker.


I would agree with that. I have been working with similar sized tiles but
8mm thick, this week in my daughter's bathroom. On my Screwfix electric
with diamond blade, I would say a good 30 seconds, plus the time that it
takes to clean the slurry off after making the cut. Also, if you are
going to be using it outdoors, be it for my reasons of it being messy, or
Dave's that the light outside is better, bear in mind that they are quite
noisy, which limits your starting time on a Sunday morning, and finishing
time at night ... You know, with a good quality score 'n' snap weighing
in at just 15 quid - that's a fiver each - I am really struggling with
why you feel that it's not worth getting one for the straight cuts. Is it
that you don't feel confident that you could work one without breaking a
lot of tiles maybe ?

It was a collective decision to buy one gadget to do straight cuts, curved
cuts around pipework and 'L' shaped tiles around hanging kitchen cabinets.
There's also the possibility that someone might want to use it for floor
tiles. I googled up Screwfix and their ETC's will handle 30mm thick tiles.
Of course, there is always the option to go out and buy a Score & Snap, if
we find that 30 seconds on the ETC, isn't fast enough.


Then I hope that the jobs themselves are being individually, and not
collectively, planned ...

You should also make sure that your chums do not think of this item as just
a "gadget". It is a power tool which, like any power tool, is potentially
dangerous, and needs treating with a deal of respect. Get some eye
protection, at least.

Arfa

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
As regards it taking *much* longer it depends. If you have several
cuts the same to make not having to mark up every one reduces that
difference. And when I used score and snap I often had to dress the
cut edge where it could be touched - otherwise it would be too sharp.
You get a perfect smooth cut with a power one.

With ceramics I can't think of a situation where a cut edge would be
exposed. It either goes into a corner, or behind tile trim or an
electrical fitting.

Even if it is next to a trim - like say at a window opening - you'd be
advised to smooth a 'split' one with a stone etc to avoid cutting things
when they're cleaned or touched. You don't have to do that if it's been
sawn.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.