I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

We have done loads of stuff on the engineering side of electrical
installations, but very little on the practical side. This seems a bit
unbalanced really when you think that the design and testing elements of
an electrical system only represent a small part of the practical
knowledge and experience required to actually do jobs like a house rewire.

So can we collect tips and techniques for the practical stuff? For
example I am thinking of how you:

Chase walls, and get past things like coving and skirtings without
wrecking the place.

Lift floors of various types

Access via ceilings

Pull cables - cable snakes, fiberglass rods, bits of capping off
trunking etc.

Handy cable routing tricks

Supporting cables on vertical drops, and under floor voids.

What is your favourite technique for chopping out walls for backboxes?

Handy tools, and test gear you could not do without.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...

So can we collect tips and techniques for the practical stuff? For example
I am thinking of how you:


A plastic ball with some string, plastic tube and an air compressor will get
cables a long way under floors. ;-)

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

snip

Handy tools, and test gear you could not do without.


Good idea John,

Been building my tool collection up from more or less nothing and testing
them - I'll write up a few items with pros+cons later today.

Cheers

Tim

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

snip

John - may I add that it might be worth mentioning "good workmanship"
things.

eg:

Grommits in metal boxes (inc. bushings, fitted glands or similar);

Minimum bend radii;

Cable support (ie enough clips)

etc.

If so, I'll write up a few paragraphs which others can vet or add to.

Handy tools, and test gear you could not do without.


OK - promised some contributions - I've been building a new tool set, so
have been choosing things carefully. Anything mentioned here has been used,
so I can comment on its usefulness IMHO:

I've attempted to add some background info, but I won't be offended if it's
not used or entirely rewritten by someone with a basic command of English!

************************************************** ****************************

Voltage indicator/continuity tester
===================================
Eg: Fluke T100 Voltage & Continuity Tester.

Link:
http://www.fluke.co.uk/comx/show_pro...LT&pid=3466 7

Purpose: To indicate voltage and continuity.

Plus points: No range to set, so won't explode if you attempt a continuity
test on a live circuit by mistake. No range to set reduced chances of
measurement error. Audible feedback. Finger shrouds and short probe tips
reduce the chance of shorting out the circuit you're testing.

Essential or luxury: Essential IMO. Cheaper similar devices exist. At least
get a "decent name" brand and not some unmarked imported tat - you are
depending on this for proving circuits dead before touching them.

Skills needed: None really, apart from getting into the habit of "proving"
the device in in working order before each session of work (eg. by testing
a known live supply to verify voltage detection and by touching the ends

************************************************** ****************************

Insulated screwdrivers
======================
Eg CK VDE 6 piece screwdrivers.

Link:
http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/sensoplus.htm

Purpose: To work safely on circuits which are live or may be live.

Essential or luxury: I would not want to advocate live working. Unless a
person is certain of their competence, work should always be carried out on
a proven dead circuit. But if you must work live, or you are working near
live circuits (eg inside a consumer unit), these are essential. Reduces the
risk of dead working should you have made an error and the "dead" circuit
is actually live, but you really should have checked better.

All things said and done, you can make do with ordinary screwdrivers or you
might just choose to buy a limited set of VDE insulated drivers: a medium
phillips (typical for MCB terminals) and a small and medium flat blade for
other terminals.

[John - I'm not happy with the previous paragraphs - but I can't think how
to word it better]

************************************************** ****************************

Sidecutters:
============

Eg CK Redline Combicutter 3

Link:
http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/pliers&cutters.htm

Purpose:
To cut and strip wire.

Essential or luxury: Sidecutters are essential. VDE insulated are essential
IMO too - one day, you *will* pick the wrong cable to cut. The cutters I
have, above, also strip 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 without effort (and without
nicking the wire), bend wire double (sometimes useful to "fill" the
terminal to get a better/more reliable termination. The screw shears I
haven't used but I can see they would occasionally be useful.

************************************************** ****************************

Pliers:
=======

Long nose pliers and a regular square nosed medium set are useful for
holding wires, bending the ends, tightenting locknuts etc.

Essential or luxury: Well, depending on what you're doing you may manage
without. Any general purpose pliers will do. I got the insulated ones just
because I was in a bargaining session down the tool shop, but IMHO it's not
so essential to get fancy ones for a bit of electrical work.

[John: opinions regarding the stance on VDE/non VDE above before Wiki
inclusion would be wise]

************************************************** ****************************

Automatic strippers:
====================

Non essential if you have good side cutters.

But if you have a big job on like I do, then:
http://www.rapidonline.com/productin...moduleno=30558
Are a real bonus for wire stripping and will also strip sheath upto 2.5mm2
twin+earth (2 or 3 core).

These:
http://www.wirecrimpingtools.co.uk/p...rod=076&cat=33
are excellent for taking the sheath off any T+E cable and will handle the
larger stuff that the automatic cutters won't. Requires setting up so not
automatic, but much much easier than most traditional ways of sheath
removal.

These (I got the CK version, but they're much for muchness)
http://test4less.co.uk/details.asp?m...&ProductID=418

Are handy for wire upto 16mm2.

Essential or luxury: Totally non essential, but a big timesaver.

************************************************** ****************************

"Volt-stick" (general open-ended non-contact voltage indicator)
================================================== =============
Eg Fluke LVD2 Volt Light

Link:
http://fluke.co.uk/comx/show_product...uken&pid=36916


The modern replacement for the neon indicator. Personally, I was quite happy
with my late fathers LEB-issue neon test stick, but I would not go near a
99p neon screwdriver due to the shoddy contruction and liability to come
apart on the job. No-one seems to make quality neon indicators, but "volt
sticks" are the modern equivalent, only lightly more versatile and
potentially safer. [John: spurious opinion, drop if desired]

The "volt stick" is great for showing the general presence of mains
electricity, either on a cable or behind a fitting or a section of wall.

Suffers from the same basic problem as a neon that a gnat riding a bicycle
with a dynamo in the next street will cause it to light up. Conversely, if
it doesn't light up, you know you're fairly safe.

Skills needed: An appreciation of its limitations and remembering to prove
it on a known live source before each session of work.

Model above, which I own, comes with a handy white LED light that's useful
in its own right.

************************************************** ****************************

I'll stop there as I need to do me tax return (yawn) and get to Tescos.

I might make a comment on the installation tester I have (Megger) later, but
there are probably people here who are better versed.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

snip

John - may I add that it might be worth mentioning "good workmanship"
things.

eg:

Grommits in metal boxes (inc. bushings, fitted glands or similar);

Minimum bend radii;

Cable support (ie enough clips)

etc.


Yes, very good suggestion...

If so, I'll write up a few paragraphs which others can vet or add to.

Many thanks! ;-)

Handy tools, and test gear you could not do without.


OK - promised some contributions - I've been building a new tool set, so
have been choosing things carefully. Anything mentioned here has been used,
so I can comment on its usefulness IMHO:

I've attempted to add some background info, but I won't be offended if it's
not used or entirely rewritten by someone with a basic command of English!

************************************************** ****************************

Voltage indicator/continuity tester
===================================
Eg: Fluke T100 Voltage & Continuity Tester.

Link:
http://www.fluke.co.uk/comx/show_pro...LT&pid=3466 7

Purpose: To indicate voltage and continuity.

Plus points: No range to set, so won't explode if you attempt a continuity
test on a live circuit by mistake. No range to set reduced chances of
measurement error. Audible feedback. Finger shrouds and short probe tips
reduce the chance of shorting out the circuit you're testing.

Essential or luxury: Essential IMO. Cheaper similar devices exist. At least
get a "decent name" brand and not some unmarked imported tat - you are
depending on this for proving circuits dead before touching them.

Skills needed: None really, apart from getting into the habit of "proving"
the device in in working order before each session of work (eg. by testing
a known live supply to verify voltage detection and by touching the ends

************************************************** ****************************

Insulated screwdrivers
======================
Eg CK VDE 6 piece screwdrivers.

Link:
http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/sensoplus.htm

Purpose: To work safely on circuits which are live or may be live.

Essential or luxury: I would not want to advocate live working. Unless a
person is certain of their competence, work should always be carried out on
a proven dead circuit. But if you must work live, or you are working near
live circuits (eg inside a consumer unit), these are essential. Reduces the
risk of dead working should you have made an error and the "dead" circuit
is actually live, but you really should have checked better.

All things said and done, you can make do with ordinary screwdrivers or you
might just choose to buy a limited set of VDE insulated drivers: a medium
phillips (typical for MCB terminals) and a small and medium flat blade for
other terminals.

[John - I'm not happy with the previous paragraphs - but I can't think how
to word it better]


I will hack it about in the wiki page, and paste a link back for your
approval...

************************************************** ****************************

Sidecutters:
============

Eg CK Redline Combicutter 3

Link:
http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/pliers&cutters.htm

Purpose:
To cut and strip wire.

Essential or luxury: Sidecutters are essential. VDE insulated are essential
IMO too - one day, you *will* pick the wrong cable to cut. The cutters I
have, above, also strip 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 without effort (and without
nicking the wire), bend wire double (sometimes useful to "fill" the
terminal to get a better/more reliable termination. The screw shears I
haven't used but I can see they would occasionally be useful.

************************************************** ****************************

Pliers:
=======

Long nose pliers and a regular square nosed medium set are useful for
holding wires, bending the ends, tightenting locknuts etc.

Essential or luxury: Well, depending on what you're doing you may manage
without. Any general purpose pliers will do. I got the insulated ones just
because I was in a bargaining session down the tool shop, but IMHO it's not
so essential to get fancy ones for a bit of electrical work.

[John: opinions regarding the stance on VDE/non VDE above before Wiki
inclusion would be wise]

I would say that anyone even remotely serious about doing this stuff
should have a complete set of VDE tools. The risks are too great
otherwise - especially when working in a CU.


************************************************** ****************************

Automatic strippers:
====================

Non essential if you have good side cutters.

But if you have a big job on like I do, then:
http://www.rapidonline.com/productin...moduleno=30558
Are a real bonus for wire stripping and will also strip sheath upto 2.5mm2
twin+earth (2 or 3 core).

These:
http://www.wirecrimpingtools.co.uk/p...rod=076&cat=33
are excellent for taking the sheath off any T+E cable and will handle the
larger stuff that the automatic cutters won't. Requires setting up so not
automatic, but much much easier than most traditional ways of sheath
removal.

These (I got the CK version, but they're much for muchness)
http://test4less.co.uk/details.asp?m...&ProductID=418

Are handy for wire upto 16mm2.

Essential or luxury: Totally non essential, but a big timesaver.

************************************************** ****************************

"Volt-stick" (general open-ended non-contact voltage indicator)
================================================== =============
Eg Fluke LVD2 Volt Light

Link:
http://fluke.co.uk/comx/show_product...uken&pid=36916


The modern replacement for the neon indicator. Personally, I was quite happy
with my late fathers LEB-issue neon test stick, but I would not go near a
99p neon screwdriver due to the shoddy contruction and liability to come
apart on the job. No-one seems to make quality neon indicators, but "volt
sticks" are the modern equivalent, only lightly more versatile and
potentially safer. [John: spurious opinion, drop if desired]

The "volt stick" is great for showing the general presence of mains
electricity, either on a cable or behind a fitting or a section of wall.

Suffers from the same basic problem as a neon that a gnat riding a bicycle
with a dynamo in the next street will cause it to light up. Conversely, if
it doesn't light up, you know you're fairly safe.

Skills needed: An appreciation of its limitations and remembering to prove
it on a known live source before each session of work.

Model above, which I own, comes with a handy white LED light that's useful
in its own right.

************************************************** ****************************

I'll stop there as I need to do me tax return (yawn) and get to Tescos.

Oh, you lucky person! ;-)

I might make a comment on the installation tester I have (Megger) later, but
there are probably people here who are better versed.

ok



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

I will hack it about in the wiki page, and paste a link back for your
approval...

ok, here we go - I have started some of the words - plenty more to be
pasted in yet:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...l_Installation

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

John Rumm wrote:

I will hack it about in the wiki page, and paste a link back for your
approval...

ok, here we go - I have started some of the words - plenty more to be
pasted in yet:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...l_Installation


I'd say that's coming along nicely Liked the wall chasing article BTW.

It's going to be a few more weeks +/- I'm afraid, but when I start the
electrical work phase in my house, I'll try to get some pictures.

One thing: It occurs to me that sooner or later, the illustrative links to
various tool maker's web sites are going to mouldify and disappear.

I guess you can't nick the pictures due to copyright - so do you need some
open-licensed pictures of various tools (public domain for all I care, or
whatever aligns with the wiki)?

Might also be worth just adding a minor disclaimer that tool citations
aren't exclusive recommendations, but merely to provide an illustration of
that type of tool?

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

John Rumm wrote:

I will hack it about in the wiki page, and paste a link back for your
approval...
ok, here we go - I have started some of the words - plenty more to be
pasted in yet:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...l_Installation


I'd say that's coming along nicely Liked the wall chasing article BTW.

There are probably a few like that which touch on aspects of the subject...

It's going to be a few more weeks +/- I'm afraid, but when I start the
electrical work phase in my house, I'll try to get some pictures.

That could be handy

One thing: It occurs to me that sooner or later, the illustrative links to
various tool maker's web sites are going to mouldify and disappear.

I was planning to photograph a bunch of the tools anyway. That should
save some of the problem. (The crimper one I already had from the cable
crimping article)

I guess you can't nick the pictures due to copyright - so do you need some
open-licensed pictures of various tools (public domain for all I care, or
whatever aligns with the wiki)?

Yup, either link to something commercial but leave it in context, upload
your own images, or find something else out there which has permission
to be used in this way.

Might also be worth just adding a minor disclaimer that tool citations
aren't exclusive recommendations, but merely to provide an illustration of
that type of tool?

Yup, indeed.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

ok, here we go - I have started some of the words - plenty more to be
pasted in yet:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...l_Installation

Looking good so far, an excellent idea.

This bit did make me chuckle:
"The lateral thinkers way to get under a "difficult"
upstairs floor. In many cases some new plasterboard
and a bit of patching is a much quicker solution that
lifting an engineered wood floor and underlay, or
clearing a particularly cluttered room."

I'm as unitdy as anyone, but when my house gets cluttered to the point
that it's easier to take down the ceiling below than clear the floor
it's time for Kim and Aggie!

Useful tools for getting cables through voids:
1 cat
1 cable tie
1 sardine

Cheers!

Martin

Martin Pentreath wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

ok, here we go - I have started some of the words - plenty more to be
pasted in yet:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...l_Installation

Looking good so far, an excellent idea.

This bit did make me chuckle:
"The lateral thinkers way to get under a "difficult"
upstairs floor. In many cases some new plasterboard
and a bit of patching is a much quicker solution that
lifting an engineered wood floor and underlay, or
clearing a particularly cluttered room."

I'm as unitdy as anyone, but when my house gets cluttered to the point
that it's easier to take down the ceiling below than clear the floor
it's time for Kim and Aggie!

Useful tools for getting cables through voids:
1 cat
1 cable tie
1 sardine

Cheers!

Martin
Ferretsarebetter.

Hi John,

I did promise, so here goes... Sorry, I don't have enough bits lying around
to do photos. If you think some would be helpful, I could put it on the
list of things to do?

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

snip

John - may I add that it might be worth mentioning "good workmanship"
things.

eg:

Grommits in metal boxes (inc. bushings, fitted glands or similar);

Minimum bend radii;

Cable support (ie enough clips)

etc.


Yes, very good suggestion...

If so, I'll write up a few paragraphs which others can vet or add to.

Many thanks! ;-)

By section/

=================================================
Grommits - you beat me to it ;-

=================================================


=================================================
Minimum bend radii: [Can I suggest some extra info that I've looked up,
edit as much or as little to blend in as you wish]

* Care must be taken not to bend a cable too tightly. Over bending a cable
can crack the insulation or strain the conductors, causing the conductor
to cut through the insulation.

OK, so how much an we bend a cable? The maximum bend that can be put in a
cable is described as the "minimum bend radius" at the inside edge of the
cable. A simple way to imaging this is:

* If a cable may have a minimum bend radius of 30mm: then take a cylinder of
radius 30mm and bend the cable neatly around the outside of the cylinder.
The cable is now bent as tightly as permitted. The overall angle of the
bend, whether it be 90 degrees, 45 degrees or anything else is not relevant
here.

So what does this mean in real life? The most common cable for house wiring
is BS6242Y, or "Twin and Earth" (it might also be BS6243Y "Triple and Earth
in some parts of the lighting or heating systems).

Table 4E of the IEE Onsite Guide (17th Edition) states that for
thermoplastic PVC cable with circular or circular stranded copper
conductors, we may use the following calculation to determin the minimum
bend radius:

a) If the overall diameter of cable (D) = 10mm, then the minimum bend
radius Rmin = 3D

b) For 10 D = 25, Rmin = 4D

It's not likely you'll be using anything bigger, but for completeness:

c) For D 25, Rmin = 6D


*** What is the "diameter" of a flat cable like BS6242Y? Well, it should be
be taken to be the larger of the two sizes, ie the "width" rather than
the "thickness".

So some common examples, using typical data from TLC's website:

All dimensions in mm
Cable type (BS6242Y/BS6243Y) Size Diameter Min Bend (rounded up)
Radius
1.0mm2 2core + E 7.8 x 4.25 7.8 3x7.8 = 24
1.0mm2 3core + E 9.8 x 4.25 9.8 3x9.8 = 30
1.5mm2 2core + E 8.2 x 5.0 8.2 3x8.2 = 25
1.5mm2 3core + E 11.4 x 5.0 11.4 4x11.4 = 46

2.5mm2 2core + E 10.3 x 6.0 10.3 4x10.3 = 42
4.0mm2 2core + E 11.9 x 6.25 11.9 4x11.9 = 48
6.0mm2 2core + E 13.5 x 7.0 13.5 4x13.5 = 54
10mm2 2core + E 17.1 x 10.0 17.1 4x17.1 = 69

*** What about SWA "Armoured" cable? Well, from Table 4E again, for any PVC
SWA armoured cable in any size, the multiplication factor is stated as 6.
So:

All dimensions in mm
Cable type (BS6242Y/BS6243Y) Diameter Min Bend (rounded up) Radius

1.5mm2 3core SWA 12.4 6x12.4 = 75
2.5mm2 3core SWA 13.2 6x13.2 = 80
4.0mm2 3core SWA 14.3 6x14.3 = 86
6.0mm2 3core SWA 15.4 6x15.4 = 93

*** Help - I'm using some weird cable that isn't described above? This is
easy: defer to the manufacturer's datasheet, it is usually a stated figure.
=================================================

=================================================
Clipping

IEE Wiring Regulation (17th) 522.8.4 and 522.8.5 state that cables otherwise
unsupported by the installation method (ie not in trunking, plaster or
conduit) must be supported at regular intervals so that they do suffer
damage due to their own weight nor should the method of support cause undue
mechanical strain nor should there be any appreciable strain on the
terminations.

Typical minimum distances between cable clips can be taken as (from
Whitfield: The electrician's guide to the 16th Edition, page 70 Table 4.10)

Horizontal runs - one clip at least every 250mm
Vertical runs - one clip at least every 400mm.

These figures cover every type of PVC Twin/Triple and Earth. Larger cables
may have relaxed spacings.

*** For horizontal runs, the nail in the clip should be under the cable, not
over, to reduce the risk of the cable pulling away from the clip.

*** Do not stack multiple cables under a single clip - this is a bodge and
you risk damaging the cable.

*** Always add a clip as close as reasonably practical to the termination
(eg consumer unit or junction box).
=================================================

snip

I'll stop there as I need to do me tax return (yawn) and get to Tescos.

Oh, you lucky person! ;-)

Did it on Tuesday, got a rebate (not actually expected, PAYE wobbulation I
guess, so double BONUS!!!) BACS'd to the bank on Friday. Wow... I'll have to
have a lie down now.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:

Splendid work Tim, saved some typing ;-)


Typical minimum distances between cable clips can be taken as (from
Whitfield: The electrician's guide to the 16th Edition, page 70 Table 4.10)

Horizontal runs - one clip at least every 250mm
Vertical runs - one clip at least every 400mm.

IIRC, there is also a figure somewhere for the max unsupported drop that
is allowed...

I'll stop there as I need to do me tax return (yawn) and get to Tescos.
Oh, you lucky person! ;-)

Did it on Tuesday, got a rebate (not actually expected, PAYE wobbulation I
guess, so double BONUS!!!) BACS'd to the bank on Friday. Wow... I'll have to
have a lie down now.

Yup, apparently if you cock up your records such that you tell them what
you got paid one year, but what you paid in tax the previous year, and
it coincides with a year where you paid yourself less the second year
than the first, they send you loads of money. Shame is they want it back
when you highlight the error, but still its an unorthodox way of getting
a loan out of hector! DAMHIKIJD


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:


Yup, apparently if you cock up your records such that you tell them what
you got paid one year, but what you paid in tax the previous year, and
it coincides with a year where you paid yourself less the second year
than the first, they send you loads of money. Shame is they want it back
when you highlight the error, but still its an unorthodox way of getting
a loan out of hector! DAMHIKIJD



I hope not ;-

I think, due to switching jobs mid year, (both PAYE) I overpaid somewhere
along the line. Possibly a coding error on the second job. Just goes to
show it's worth checking yer tax. Maybe I should check the last 4 years
too, if I can find all the P60s

Cheers

Tim

On Sep 22, 9:15*pm, Tim S wrote:
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

snip

John - may I add that it might be worth mentioning "good workmanship"
things.

eg:

Grommits in metal boxes (inc. bushings, fitted glands or similar);

Minimum bend radii;

Cable support (ie enough clips)

etc.

If so, I'll write up a few paragraphs which others can vet or add to.

Handy tools, and test gear you could not do without.

OK - promised some contributions - I've been building a new tool set, so
have been choosing things carefully. Anything mentioned here has been used,
so I can comment on its usefulness IMHO:

I've attempted to add some background info, but I won't be offended if it's
not used or entirely rewritten by someone with a basic command of English!

************************************************** *****************************

Voltage indicator/continuity tester
===================================
Eg: Fluke T100 Voltage & Continuity Tester.

Link:http://www.fluke.co.uk/comx/show_pro...en&product=ELT...

Purpose: To indicate voltage and continuity.

Plus points: No range to set, so won't explode if you attempt a continuity
test on a live circuit by mistake. No range to set reduced chances of
measurement error. Audible feedback. Finger shrouds and short probe tips
reduce the chance of shorting out the circuit you're testing.

Essential or luxury: Essential IMO. Cheaper similar devices exist. At least
get a "decent name" brand and not some unmarked imported tat - you are
depending on this for proving circuits dead before touching them.

Skills needed: None really, apart from getting into the habit of "proving"
the device in in working order before each session of work (eg. by testing
a known live supply to verify voltage detection and by touching the ends

************************************************** *****************************

Insulated screwdrivers
======================
Eg CK VDE 6 piece screwdrivers.

Link:http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/sensoplus.htm

Purpose: To work safely on circuits which are live or may be live.

Essential or luxury: I would not want to advocate live working. Unless a
person is certain of their competence, work should always be carried out on
a proven dead circuit. But if you must work live, or you are working near
live circuits (eg inside a consumer unit), these are essential. Reduces the
risk of dead working should you have made an error and the "dead" circuit
is actually live, but you really should have checked better.

All things said and done, you can make do with ordinary screwdrivers or you
might just choose to buy a limited set of VDE insulated drivers: a medium
phillips (typical for MCB terminals) and a small and medium flat blade for
other terminals.

[John - I'm not happy with the previous paragraphs - but I can't think how
to word it better]

************************************************** *****************************

Sidecutters:
============

Eg CK Redline Combicutter 3

Link:http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/pliers&cutters.htm

Purpose:
To cut and strip wire.

Essential or luxury: Sidecutters are essential. VDE insulated are essential
IMO too - one day, you *will* pick the wrong cable to cut. The cutters I
have, above, also strip 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 without effort (and without
nicking the wire), bend wire double (sometimes useful to "fill" the
terminal to get a better/more reliable termination. The screw shears I
haven't used but I can see they would occasionally be useful.

************************************************** *****************************

Pliers:
=======

Long nose pliers and a regular square nosed medium set are useful for
holding wires, bending the ends, tightenting locknuts etc.

Essential or luxury: Well, depending on what you're doing you may manage
without. Any general purpose pliers will do. I got the insulated ones just
because I was in a bargaining session down the tool shop, but IMHO it's not
so essential to get fancy ones for a bit of electrical work.

[John: opinions regarding the stance on VDE/non VDE above before Wiki
inclusion would be wise]

************************************************** *****************************

Automatic strippers:
====================

Non essential if you have good side cutters.

But if you have a big job on like I do, then:http://www.rapidonline.com/productin...ols-Fasteners-...
Are a real bonus for wire stripping and will also strip sheath upto 2.5mm2
twin+earth (2 or 3 core).

These:http://www.wirecrimpingtools.co.uk/p...rod=076&cat=33
are excellent for taking the sheath off any T+E cable and will handle the
larger stuff that the automatic cutters won't. Requires setting up so not
automatic, but much much easier than most traditional ways of sheath
removal.

These (I got the CK version, but they're much for muchness)http://test4less.co.uk/details.asp?m...&ProductID=418

Are handy for wire upto 16mm2.

Essential or luxury: Totally non essential, but a big timesaver.

************************************************** *****************************

"Volt-stick" (general open-ended non-contact voltage indicator)
================================================== =============
Eg Fluke LVD2 Volt Light

Link:http://fluke.co.uk/comx/show_product...uken&pid=36916

The modern replacement for the neon indicator. Personally, I was quite happy
with my late fathers LEB-issue neon test stick, but I would not go near a
99p neon screwdriver due to the shoddy contruction and liability to come
apart on the job. No-one seems to make quality neon indicators, but "volt
sticks" are the modern equivalent, only lightly more versatile and
potentially safer. [John: spurious opinion, drop if desired]

The "volt stick" is great for showing the general presence of mains
electricity, either on a cable or behind a fitting or a section of wall.

Suffers from the same basic problem as a neon that a gnat riding a bicycle
with a dynamo in the next street will cause it to light up. Conversely, if
it doesn't light up, you know you're fairly safe.

Skills needed: An appreciation of its limitations and remembering to prove
it on a known live source before each session of work.

Model above, which I own, comes with a handy white LED light that's useful
in its own right.

************************************************** *****************************

I'll stop there as I need to do me tax return (yawn) and get to Tescos.

I might make a comment on the installation tester I have (Megger) later, but
there are probably people here who are better versed.

Cheers

Tim



I've just got one issue with this article: it currently describes a
long list of optional extras as essential tools. Millions of people
have done masses of electrical work with no more than a basic bare
shaft screwdriver and any type of wire cutter, and its quite safe on
an install switched off at the CU. This is how 99% of DIY work is
done. Few readers will buy the idea that those other things are
necessary. Recommended optional extras, yes.

It might help to distinguish between work on isolated installs and
work on live installs, where the requirements are quite different. 99%
of DIYers would only ever consider the former, whereas currently the
tool recommendations seem to be aimed at the latter.


NT

coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sep 22, 9:15*pm, Tim S wrote:
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

snip

John - may I add that it might be worth mentioning "good workmanship"
things.

eg:

Grommits in metal boxes (inc. bushings, fitted glands or similar);

Minimum bend radii;

Cable support (ie enough clips)

etc.

If so, I'll write up a few paragraphs which others can vet or add to.

Handy tools, and test gear you could not do without.

OK - promised some contributions - I've been building a new tool set, so
have been choosing things carefully. Anything mentioned here has been
used, so I can comment on its usefulness IMHO:

I've attempted to add some background info, but I won't be offended if
it's not used or entirely rewritten by someone with a basic command of
English!


************************************************** *************************
***

Voltage indicator/continuity tester
===================================
Eg: Fluke T100 Voltage & Continuity Tester.


Link:http://www.fluke.co.uk/comx/show_pro...en&product=ELT...

Purpose: To indicate voltage and continuity.

Plus points: No range to set, so won't explode if you attempt a
continuity test on a live circuit by mistake. No range to set reduced
chances of measurement error. Audible feedback. Finger shrouds and short
probe tips reduce the chance of shorting out the circuit you're testing.

Essential or luxury: Essential IMO. Cheaper similar devices exist. At
least get a "decent name" brand and not some unmarked imported tat - you
are depending on this for proving circuits dead before touching them.

Skills needed: None really, apart from getting into the habit of
"proving" the device in in working order before each session of work (eg.
by testing a known live supply to verify voltage detection and by
touching the ends


************************************************** *************************
***

Insulated screwdrivers
======================
Eg CK VDE 6 piece screwdrivers.

Link:http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/sensoplus.htm

Purpose: To work safely on circuits which are live or may be live.

Essential or luxury: I would not want to advocate live working. Unless a
person is certain of their competence, work should always be carried out
on a proven dead circuit. But if you must work live, or you are working
near live circuits (eg inside a consumer unit), these are essential.
Reduces the risk of dead working should you have made an error and the
"dead" circuit is actually live, but you really should have checked
better.

All things said and done, you can make do with ordinary screwdrivers or
you might just choose to buy a limited set of VDE insulated drivers: a
medium phillips (typical for MCB terminals) and a small and medium flat
blade for other terminals.

[John - I'm not happy with the previous paragraphs - but I can't think
[how
to word it better]


************************************************** *************************
***

Sidecutters:
============

Eg CK Redline Combicutter 3

Link:http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/pliers&cutters.htm

Purpose:
To cut and strip wire.

Essential or luxury: Sidecutters are essential. VDE insulated are
essential IMO too - one day, you *will* pick the wrong cable to cut. The
cutters I have, above, also strip 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 without effort (and
without nicking the wire), bend wire double (sometimes useful to "fill"
the terminal to get a better/more reliable termination. The screw shears
I haven't used but I can see they would occasionally be useful.


************************************************** *************************
***

Pliers:
=======

Long nose pliers and a regular square nosed medium set are useful for
holding wires, bending the ends, tightenting locknuts etc.

Essential or luxury: Well, depending on what you're doing you may manage
without. Any general purpose pliers will do. I got the insulated ones
just because I was in a bargaining session down the tool shop, but IMHO
it's not so essential to get fancy ones for a bit of electrical work.

[John: opinions regarding the stance on VDE/non VDE above before Wiki
inclusion would be wise]


************************************************** *************************
***

Automatic strippers:
====================

Non essential if you have good side cutters.

But if you have a big job on like I do,

then:http://www.rapidonline.com/productin...ols-Fasteners-...
Are a real bonus for wire stripping and will also strip sheath upto
2.5mm2 twin+earth (2 or 3 core).

These:http://www.wirecrimpingtools.co.uk/p...rod=076&cat=33
are excellent for taking the sheath off any T+E cable and will handle the
larger stuff that the automatic cutters won't. Requires setting up so not
automatic, but much much easier than most traditional ways of sheath
removal.

These (I got the CK version, but they're much for
muchness)http://test4less.co.uk/details.asp?m...&ProductID=418

Are handy for wire upto 16mm2.

Essential or luxury: Totally non essential, but a big timesaver.


************************************************** *************************
***

"Volt-stick" (general open-ended non-contact voltage indicator)
================================================== =============
Eg Fluke LVD2 Volt Light

Link:http://fluke.co.uk/comx/show_product...uken&pid=36916

The modern replacement for the neon indicator. Personally, I was quite
happy with my late fathers LEB-issue neon test stick, but I would not go
near a 99p neon screwdriver due to the shoddy contruction and liability
to come apart on the job. No-one seems to make quality neon indicators,
but "volt sticks" are the modern equivalent, only lightly more versatile
and potentially safer. [John: spurious opinion, drop if desired]

The "volt stick" is great for showing the general presence of mains
electricity, either on a cable or behind a fitting or a section of wall.

Suffers from the same basic problem as a neon that a gnat riding a
bicycle with a dynamo in the next street will cause it to light up.
Conversely, if it doesn't light up, you know you're fairly safe.

Skills needed: An appreciation of its limitations and remembering to
prove it on a known live source before each session of work.

Model above, which I own, comes with a handy white LED light that's
useful in its own right.


************************************************** *************************
***

I'll stop there as I need to do me tax return (yawn) and get to Tescos.

I might make a comment on the installation tester I have (Megger) later,
but there are probably people here who are better versed.

Cheers

Tim



I've just got one issue with this article: it currently describes a
long list of optional extras as essential tools. Millions of people
have done masses of electrical work with no more than a basic bare
shaft screwdriver and any type of wire cutter, and its quite safe on
an install switched off at the CU. This is how 99% of DIY work is
done. Few readers will buy the idea that those other things are
necessary. Recommended optional extras, yes.

It might help to distinguish between work on isolated installs and
work on live installs, where the requirements are quite different. 99%
of DIYers would only ever consider the former, whereas currently the
tool recommendations seem to be aimed at the latter.


I think that's a fair comment, but I'm going to disagree anyway.

For a Wiki, my personal feeling is that we should recommend a minimum
standard to do the job safely. You can get VDE screwdrivers for a quid
each:

http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=2977

So, on the tools section above I've really said you can get away with 3 or
so VDE drivers and a decent pair of VDE sidecutters at a minimum. Say 9
pounds for the cutters:

http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=1792

Maybe some pliers if the job calls for them.

===========

I accept that in days of old, a cheap multimeter fulfilled the functions of
a voltage indicator aka the Fluke T100 - I'm less stressed about that one,
but I stand by the bit about a device *like* the T100 being a better
option. I can only really comment on the stuff I own, but we should be
clear that the wiki isn't trying to recommend specific makes.

So, you can be up and running for 15 pounds worth of VDE tools and perhaps a
cheaper version of the T100 (I'll have a look round later) so I don;t think
it's worth arguing about.

People who don't want to buy insulated tools will clearly see that they can
avoid doing so, but hopefully they will understand the risk.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:


For a Wiki, my personal feeling is that we should recommend a minimum
standard to do the job safely. You can get VDE screwdrivers for a quid
each:

http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=2977


I might have missed it, but does any part of this (article) actually say
what VDE stands for or means? Might be helpful for people to understand
that.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
Tim S wrote:


For a Wiki, my personal feeling is that we should recommend a minimum
standard to do the job safely. You can get VDE screwdrivers for a quid
each:

http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=2977


I might have missed it, but does any part of this (article) actually say
what VDE stands for or means? Might be helpful for people to understand
that.


It wouldn't help much as the words are German. It is an internationally
accredited German testing and standards institute. In their own words:

The VDE Testing and Certification Institute is accredited on a national and
international level for the area of testing and certification of
electrotechnical equipment, components and systems. Testing of
electrotechnical products is conducted for safety, electromagnetic
compatibility and other characteristics.
The VDE Testing Institute was founded in the year 1920 in Berlin as an
activity of the VDE Association. Since 1968 located in Offenbach am Main,
the VDE Institute gained worldwide importance. The results of testing are
evaluated scientifically and contribute to the development of
electrotechnical standards.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Rod wrote:
Tim S wrote:


For a Wiki, my personal feeling is that we should recommend a minimum
standard to do the job safely. You can get VDE screwdrivers for a
quid each:

http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=2977


I might have missed it, but does any part of this (article) actually
say what VDE stands for or means? Might be helpful for people to
understand that.

Vorsprung Durch Elektrik ?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
So, on the tools section above I've really said you can get away with 3
or so VDE drivers and a decent pair of VDE sidecutters at a minimum. Say
9 pounds for the cutters:

If you're on a budget look out for the Lidl cutters, pliers and wire
stripper set at around this price. Perfectly adequate for domestic wiring.
You should really keep these tools for wiring use only as abusing things
like cutters isn't a good idea if you want them to remain sharp.

--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
I accept that in days of old, a cheap multimeter fulfilled the functions
of a voltage indicator aka the Fluke T100 - I'm less stressed about that
one, but I stand by the bit about a device *like* the T100 being a
better option. I can only really comment on the stuff I own, but we
should be clear that the wiki isn't trying to recommend specific makes.

I've got a fair selection of multimeters but if I wanted one for purely
DIY mains stuff I'd get this one :-

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...741/index.html

or similar.

You can get a vast selection of cheap DVMs for other uses.

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
I accept that in days of old, a cheap multimeter fulfilled the functions
of a voltage indicator aka the Fluke T100 - I'm less stressed about that
one, but I stand by the bit about a device *like* the T100 being a
better option. I can only really comment on the stuff I own, but we
should be clear that the wiki isn't trying to recommend specific makes.

I've got a fair selection of multimeters but if I wanted one for purely
DIY mains stuff I'd get this one :-


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...741/index.html

or similar.

You can get a vast selection of cheap DVMs for other uses.


Or this

http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilde...&cm dGo=Go%21

which can be had for a tenner, eg:

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=10576

Although it's unclear if it can safely do continuity checks on potentially
live AC circuits. As a voltage tester though, it's probaby reasonable.

I think the conclusion is that for basic wiring, I personally would have
little hesitation in recommending that one should have under 25 pounds
worth of tools in order to vastly reduce risk to life and limb.

Hopefully at the weekend I will get round to supplying very generic looking
photos of some of the tools I've got so that the Wiki doesn't needlessly
portray the image that one must buy the "best" tools before even starting
but rather that one needs *adequate* tools.

Cheers

Tim

On Sep 25, 8:03*am, Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:



On Sep 22, 9:15*pm, Tim S wrote:
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

snip

John - may I add that it might be worth mentioning "good workmanship"
things.

eg:

Grommits in metal boxes (inc. bushings, fitted glands or similar);

Minimum bend radii;

Cable support (ie enough clips)

etc.

If so, I'll write up a few paragraphs which others can vet or add to.

Handy tools, and test gear you could not do without.

OK - promised some contributions - I've been building a new tool set, so
have been choosing things carefully. Anything mentioned here has been
used, so I can comment on its usefulness IMHO:

I've attempted to add some background info, but I won't be offended if
it's not used or entirely rewritten by someone with a basic command of
English!

************************************************** *************************
***

Voltage indicator/continuity tester
===================================
Eg: Fluke T100 Voltage & Continuity Tester.

Link:http://www.fluke.co.uk/comx/show_pro...en&product=ELT...



Purpose: To indicate voltage and continuity.

Plus points: No range to set, so won't explode if you attempt a
continuity test on a live circuit by mistake. No range to set reduced
chances of measurement error. Audible feedback. Finger shrouds and short
probe tips reduce the chance of shorting out the circuit you're testing.

Essential or luxury: Essential IMO. Cheaper similar devices exist. At
least get a "decent name" brand and not some unmarked imported tat - you
are depending on this for proving circuits dead before touching them.

Skills needed: None really, apart from getting into the habit of
"proving" the device in in working order before each session of work (eg.
by testing a known live supply to verify voltage detection and by
touching the ends

************************************************** *************************
***



Insulated screwdrivers
======================
Eg CK VDE 6 piece screwdrivers.

Link:http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/sensoplus.htm

Purpose: To work safely on circuits which are live or may be live.

Essential or luxury: I would not want to advocate live working. Unless a
person is certain of their competence, work should always be carried out
on a proven dead circuit. But if you must work live, or you are working
near live circuits (eg inside a consumer unit), these are essential.
Reduces the risk of dead working should you have made an error and the
"dead" circuit is actually live, but you really should have checked
better.

All things said and done, you can make do with ordinary screwdrivers or
you might just choose to buy a limited set of VDE insulated drivers: a
medium phillips (typical for MCB terminals) and a small and medium flat
blade for other terminals.

[John - I'm not happy with the previous paragraphs - but I can't think
[how
to word it better]

************************************************** *************************
***



Sidecutters:
============

Eg CK Redline Combicutter 3

Link:http://www.ck-tools.com/Key_Ranges/pliers&cutters.htm

Purpose:
To cut and strip wire.

Essential or luxury: Sidecutters are essential. VDE insulated are
essential IMO too - one day, you *will* pick the wrong cable to cut. The
cutters I have, above, also strip 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 without effort (and
without nicking the wire), bend wire double (sometimes useful to "fill"
the terminal to get a better/more reliable termination. The screw shears
I haven't used but I can see they would occasionally be useful.

************************************************** *************************
***



Pliers:
=======

Long nose pliers and a regular square nosed medium set are useful for
holding wires, bending the ends, tightenting locknuts etc.

Essential or luxury: Well, depending on what you're doing you may manage
without. Any general purpose pliers will do. I got the insulated ones
just because I was in a bargaining session down the tool shop, but IMHO
it's not so essential to get fancy ones for a bit of electrical work.

[John: opinions regarding the stance on VDE/non VDE above before Wiki
inclusion would be wise]

************************************************** *************************
***

Automatic strippers:
====================

Non essential if you have good side cutters.

But if you have a big job on like I do,

then:http://www.rapidonline.com/productin...ols-Fasteners-...

Are a real bonus for wire stripping and will also strip sheath upto
2.5mm2 twin+earth (2 or 3 core).

These:http://www.wirecrimpingtools.co.uk/p...rod=076&cat=33
are excellent for taking the sheath off any T+E cable and will handle the
larger stuff that the automatic cutters won't. Requires setting up so not
automatic, but much much easier than most traditional ways of sheath
removal.

These (I got the CK version, but they're much for
muchness)http://test4less.co.uk/details.asp?m...&ProductID=418

Are handy for wire upto 16mm2.

Essential or luxury: Totally non essential, but a big timesaver.

************************************************** *************************
***



"Volt-stick" (general open-ended non-contact voltage indicator)
================================================== =============
Eg Fluke LVD2 Volt Light

Link:http://fluke.co.uk/comx/show_product...uken&pid=36916

The modern replacement for the neon indicator. Personally, I was quite
happy with my late fathers LEB-issue neon test stick, but I would not go
near a 99p neon screwdriver due to the shoddy contruction and liability
to come apart on the job. No-one seems to make quality neon indicators,
but "volt sticks" are the modern equivalent, only lightly more versatile
and potentially safer. [John: spurious opinion, drop if desired]

The "volt stick" is great for showing the general presence of mains
electricity, either on a cable or behind a fitting or a section of wall.

Suffers from the same basic problem as a neon that a gnat riding a
bicycle with a dynamo in the next street will cause it to light up.
Conversely, if it doesn't light up, you know you're fairly safe.

Skills needed: An appreciation of its limitations and remembering to
prove it on a known live source before each session of work.

Model above, which I own, comes with a handy white LED light that's
useful in its own right.

************************************************** *************************
***





I'll stop there as I need to do me tax return (yawn) and get to Tescos..

I might make a comment on the installation tester I have (Megger) later,
but there are probably people here who are better versed.

Cheers

Tim

I've just got one issue with this article: it currently describes a
long list of optional extras as essential tools. Millions of people
have done masses of electrical work with no more than a basic bare
shaft screwdriver and any type of wire cutter, and its quite safe on
an install switched off at the CU. This is how 99% of DIY work is
done. Few readers will buy the idea that those other things are
necessary. Recommended optional extras, yes.

It might help to distinguish between work on isolated installs and
work on live installs, where the requirements are quite different. 99%
of DIYers would only ever consider the former, whereas currently the
tool recommendations seem to be aimed at the latter.

I think that's a fair comment, but I'm going to disagree anyway.

For a Wiki, my personal feeling is that we should recommend a minimum
standard to do the job safely. You can get VDE screwdrivers for a quid
each:

http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=2977

So, on the tools section above I've really said you can get away with 3 or
so VDE drivers and a decent pair of VDE sidecutters at a minimum. Say 9
pounds for the cutters:

http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=1792

Maybe some pliers if the job calls for them.

===========

I accept that in days of old, a cheap multimeter fulfilled the functions of
a voltage indicator aka the Fluke T100 - I'm less stressed about that one,
but I stand by the bit about a device *like* the T100 being a better
option. I can only really comment on the stuff I own, but we should be
clear that the wiki isn't trying to recommend specific makes.

So, you can be up and running for 15 pounds worth of VDE tools and perhaps a
cheaper version of the T100 (I'll have a look round later) so I don;t think
it's worth arguing about.

People who don't want to buy insulated tools will clearly see that they can
avoid doing so, but hopefully they will understand the risk.

Cheers

Tim


Essential, n.:
absolutely necessary; vitally necessary
anything indispensable;
Being necessary

and, in my own words:
a necessary tool is a tool without which the job can not be done.


NT

In article
,
wrote:
and, in my own words:
a necessary tool is a tool without which the job can not be done.

Did your newsreader tool not scream at you about excessive quoting? If not
it's not doing its job. ;-)

--
*Would a fly without wings be called a walk?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote:

I've just got one issue with this article: it currently describes a
long list of optional extras as essential tools. Millions of people
have done masses of electrical work with no more than a basic bare
shaft screwdriver and any type of wire cutter, and its quite safe on

Tis ok, those tables are due for reorganisation soon! ;-)

It might help to distinguish between work on isolated installs and
work on live installs, where the requirements are quite different. 99%
of DIYers would only ever consider the former, whereas currently the
tool recommendations seem to be aimed at the latter.

I would have thought a good amount of DIY happens on partially isolated
installs - i.e. MCB / fuse removed, but with other circuits live.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22 Sep, 00:26, John Rumm wrote:
I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

We have done loads of stuff on the engineering side of electrical
installations, but very little on the practical side. This seems a bit
unbalanced really when you think that the design and testing elements of
an electrical system only represent a small part of the practical
knowledge and experience required to actually do jobs like a house rewire.

So can we collect tips and techniques for the practical stuff?

Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

Chris

In article
,
wrote:
Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

Talcum powder is the usual method.

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article
,
wrote:
Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

Talcum powder is the usual method.


Tallow is also an option, though a bit messier.

Cheers

Tim

In message
,
writes
On 22 Sep, 00:26, John Rumm wrote:
I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

We have done loads of stuff on the engineering side of electrical
installations, but very little on the practical side. This seems a bit
unbalanced really when you think that the design and testing elements of
an electrical system only represent a small part of the practical
knowledge and experience required to actually do jobs like a house rewire.

So can we collect tips and techniques for the practical stuff?

Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

There's always Hellerman lubricant


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message
,
writes
On 22 Sep, 00:26, John Rumm wrote:
I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

We have done loads of stuff on the engineering side of electrical
installations, but very little on the practical side. This seems a bit
unbalanced really when you think that the design and testing elements of
an electrical system only represent a small part of the practical
knowledge and experience required to actually do jobs like a house
rewire.

So can we collect tips and techniques for the practical stuff?

Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

There's always Hellerman lubricant


Wot? Mayonnaise? :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In message , Rod
writes
geoff wrote:
In message
,
writes
On 22 Sep, 00:26, John Rumm wrote:
I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

We have done loads of stuff on the engineering side of electrical
installations, but very little on the practical side. This seems a bit
unbalanced really when you think that the design and testing elements of
an electrical system only represent a small part of the practical
knowledge and experience required to actually do jobs like a house
rewire.

So can we collect tips and techniques for the practical stuff?

Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

There's always Hellerman lubricant

Wot? Mayonnaise? :-)

try it ...


--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...

Wot? Mayonnaise? :-)

try it ...

If I caught an electrician using mayo to lubricate cables he would be
cleaning all of it and he wouldn't get paid.
It is totally wrong to put something that will grow mold anywhere other than
the bin.
Its probably an offense under the elf and safety laws and would get many
places shut down.

In article ,
geoff wrote:
Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

There's always Hellerman lubricant

Bit pricey, though.

BTW - a tip for a suitable container. An old re-fill bottle from a printer
ink kit.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:57:43 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
geoff wrote:
Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

There's always Hellerman lubricant

Bit pricey, though.

Johnson's 'Baby Oil' (other makes are available!) is very effective
for this.

--
Frank Erskine

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:17:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On 22 Sep, 00:26, John Rumm wrote:
I feel another wiki article coming on, and this could be a really handy
one.

We have done loads of stuff on the engineering side of electrical
installations, but very little on the practical side. This seems a bit
unbalanced really when you think that the design and testing elements of
an electrical system only represent a small part of the practical
knowledge and experience required to actually do jobs like a house rewire.

So can we collect tips and techniques for the practical stuff?

Getting a cable through a tight hole, or tight sleeving on a cable --
soap it. I've always been a bit worried what the entrapped water/soap
might do to the insulation, but never had any obviously fail for this
reason. IB there is an official cable lubricant for the purpose, but
few d-i-y-ers will have any around at the crucial time.

It's very common practice these days to instal u/g service cables in a
plastic pipe installed by the builder/developer.

When the system was first trialled about 30/40 years ago, a fair bit of
Swarfega was used to lubricate the cable as it went into the duct,
particularly if the duct was laid with some tightish bends.


--
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

The Wanderer wrote:

When the system was first trialled about 30/40 years ago, a fair bit of
Swarfega was used to lubricate the cable as it went into the duct,
particularly if the duct was laid with some tightish bends.

Swarfega - now there's a thought. Was that approved by the cable
manufacturers, and did it ensure that the consumer got a clean feed?

See RS stock no. 196-3390 for 'Yellow 77' which is a lubricant for wire
pulling in conduits, etc. It's not expensive.

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:
The Wanderer wrote:

When the system was first trialled about 30/40 years ago, a fair bit of
Swarfega was used to lubricate the cable as it went into the duct,
particularly if the duct was laid with some tightish bends.

Swarfega - now there's a thought. Was that approved by the cable
manufacturers, and did it ensure that the consumer got a clean feed?

See RS stock no. 196-3390 for 'Yellow 77' which is a lubricant for wire
pulling in conduits, etc. It's not expensive.


And why have some people reported cables turning to green goo?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In article ,
Andy Wade wrote:
When the system was first trialled about 30/40 years ago, a fair bit of
Swarfega was used to lubricate the cable as it went into the duct,
particularly if the duct was laid with some tightish bends.

Swarfega - now there's a thought. Was that approved by the cable
manufacturers, and did it ensure that the consumer got a clean feed?

Dunno - but it strikes me as a very expensive lubricant.

--
*On the other hand, you have different fingers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:30:07 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Wade wrote:
When the system was first trialled about 30/40 years ago, a fair bit of
Swarfega was used to lubricate the cable as it went into the duct,
particularly if the duct was laid with some tightish bends.

Swarfega - now there's a thought. Was that approved by the cable
manufacturers, and did it ensure that the consumer got a clean feed?

Dunno - but it strikes me as a very expensive lubricant.

'S all relative really though, ain't it?

Having a couple of guys buggering around for an hour trying to get cable
through a tightly bent duct is a lot more expensive than slapping a couple
of handfuls of Swarfega onto the cable as it was pushed into the duct.

--
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes

the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Right, loads of good stuff included now, and a bunch of photos as well:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...l_Installation

Need more input for some of the sections on cable support, running wires
under floor voids (and in particular issues like supporting cables, or
letting them sit on the sub floor etc) etc

Handy making good tricks and tips...

Any sections you think are missing?


--
Cheers,

John.

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