We have a garage full of junk and a large shed full of tools that I
can't get to because of the junk. When I came to use my router to attack
the piece of wood to make a mantelpiece, I discovered that the collets
and the bit had rusted together, so the first fine day for ages was
spent freeing off and re-assembling.

I have been saying for ages that we need a separate shed for the garden
tools that are put in after a bit of a dig or mow or whatever and then
raise the shed humidity well past the tool-rusting threshold. Besides,
they have to be climbed over or fall on me all the time. As I've been
seen to be making a decorative housey thing, the argument seems to be
producing results.

The big wooden shed is fine, but it is now on its third roof felt, and
we all are getting older, so I've been looking at metal and plastic clip
the bits together things.

I'm told by a steel shed owner that it hasn't rusted as he expected, and
I've also been looking at 'resin' sheds as sold by B&Q etc.
The relevant one in stock locally is assembled on a rack about 15 feet
above ground and can't be inspected closely, but has a piece broken off
the door. How B&Q thinks this is a great sales ploy beats me.

I was really hoping to level the ground, spread a small bed of tiny
pebbles and then plonk the shed floor on that, clip it together and
expect it to last about 20 or so years. It would be in a fairly
sheltered spot and I can make plywood anchors if necessary.

Is this sensible? Does anyone have any experience of resin sheds? Do
they fade and go brittle in light like so many plastics? Do they bend?
Can they be repaired with fibreglass or epoxy resin?

Can anyone help with advice?
--
Bill

I had a couple of rotten sheds that I replaced with a much bigger
summer house last year (work still in progress as you can see from
some of my recent posts).

I specifically addressed the issue of the summer house base (let's
call it big shed as the structure is the same), both looking at what
happened to my rotten sheds , to neighbours' sheds and to the
extensive and disparate comments/literature you find online.

Metal: depending where you live, unless it's properly insulated you
can have problems of internal water vapour condensation in the cold
season, as metal ends up being colder than the surrounding
environment. You could end up having an oven in the warm season (even
if it doesn't look very warm outside) because of solar radiation being
nicely absorbed by the metal.

Plastic: UV tends to degrade many plastic materials with time so I
wouldn't put a bet on it lasting 20 years... unless it's explicitly
certified to be UV-resistant.

Wood seems to be the longest latsting option unless water gets its
way over, under, around... So that's the material I chose in the end
(also because it's the one you can more easily modify).

The outcome of all this ruminating on personal and other people's
observations is that putting the joists (even if pressure treated)
directly on the soil ( levelled, graveleld, etc it's still soil) is
pretty bad. What is always recommended is something along

- level the ground
-put damp proof barrier (thick black polyethylene sheed) on ground (or
below if you lay cement)
-put slabs on barrier
-now you can put joists on, although I would further recommend you lay
joists on bricks to make sure joists are not directly touching the
slabs and getting any stagnating water for long time

Now your shed floor would be seriously safe...

Good luck

Woland wrote:

The outcome of all this ruminating on personal and other people's
observations is that putting the joists (even if pressure treated)
directly on the soil ( levelled, graveleld, etc it's still soil) is
pretty bad. What is always recommended is something along

- level the ground
-put damp proof barrier (thick black polyethylene sheed) on ground (or
below if you lay cement)
-put slabs on barrier
-now you can put joists on, although I would further recommend you lay
joists on bricks to make sure joists are not directly touching the
slabs and getting any stagnating water for long time

Now your shed floor would be seriously safe...

Concrete fence posts laid on edge work a treat. Give a good airlow under
the shed, doddle to lay & level, cheap.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Woland wrote:

Plastic: UV tends to degrade many plastic materials with time so I
wouldn't put a bet on it lasting 20 years... unless it's explicitly
certified to be UV-resistant.

Wood seems to be the longest latsting option unless water gets its
way over, under, around... So that's the material I chose in the end
(also because it's the one you can more easily modify).

On the boat, the epoxy coat deteriorated where covered with varnish, but
where covered with paint it has been fine. Not sure if "resin" of shed
fame behaves in the same way. Perhaps I could paint it if it looked
dodgy after a year or so?

Wood wouuld be ideal, but I have had problems with the deterioration of
the felt roof, even though we used good felt. The big wooden shed here
is laid on a concrete base with a plastic membrane, then expanded
polystyrene (?) sheet, then a ply floor. Then old carpet. This has been
fine and warm. But that is a working rather than storage shed.

My reason for looking at the "resin" shed was that I hoped the supplied
ventilated plastic floor would remove the need for damp proof membreanes
etc. The shed is only for garden tools, power washer etc, and won't have
any need for power or anything. Drainage is OK, and we don't have
standing water or anything.

The outcome of all this ruminating on personal and other people's
observations is that putting the joists (even if pressure treated)
directly on the soil ( levelled, graveleld, etc it's still soil) is
pretty bad. What is always recommended is something along

- level the ground
-put damp proof barrier (thick black polyethylene sheed) on ground (or
below if you lay cement)
-put slabs on barrier
-now you can put joists on, although I would further recommend you lay
joists on bricks to make sure joists are not directly touching the
slabs and getting any stagnating water for long time

Now your shed floor would be seriously safe...

Good luck

In my last house the shed was on bricks with an air space below. We had
some problems with cats and other animals under the shed. They would
pull away the wire netting every few weeks.

Thanks for the thoughts

Bill

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:44:34 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Concrete fence posts laid on edge work a treat. Give a good airlow under
the shed, doddle to lay & level, cheap.

I did that and they did rot but it was getting on for 20 years.

The fence posts were laid on existing paving slabs (the whole area was
paved).

I just wonder if I'd laid the posts on DPC on a layer of slates or
roofing tiles to lift them out of any puddles or run off, the shed
might have been still with us.

Derek

Derek wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:44:34 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Concrete fence posts laid on edge work a treat. Give a good airlow
under the shed, doddle to lay & level, cheap.

I did that and they did rot but it was getting on for 20 years.

Were they concrete posts?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:23:36 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Derek wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:44:34 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Concrete fence posts laid on edge work a treat. Give a good airlow
under the shed, doddle to lay & level, cheap.

I did that and they did rot but it was getting on for 20 years.

Were they concrete posts?

Oh no, Oh no.

Not at all, at all.

Could be a local thing but most concrete fence posts I've seen seem to
be tapered.

Derek

Derek wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:23:36 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Derek wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:44:34 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:


Concrete fence posts laid on edge work a treat. Give a good airlow
under the shed, doddle to lay & level, cheap.

I did that and they did rot but it was getting on for 20 years.

Were they concrete posts?

Oh no, Oh no.

Not at all, at all.

Aha, aha. I meant concrete :-)

Could be a local thing but most concrete fence posts I've seen seem to
be tapered.

Strange, I've never seen a tapered concrete post. Where's 'local' to you
then?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , Bill
writes
I was really hoping to level the ground, spread a small bed of tiny
pebbles and then plonk the shed floor on that, clip it together and
expect it to last about 20 or so years. It would be in a fairly
sheltered spot and I can make plywood anchors if necessary.

I doubt the actual material used in construction will have much impact
on rusting of stored metallic items. The problem is most likely
condensation from warm, moist air on cold metallic surfaces.

My centre lathe is housed in an unheated farm building and is prone to
rust unless kept covered by a simple dust sheet. I think the process is
one where a period of low overnight temperature is succeeded by a warm
damp morning leading to condensation on cold surfaces. I expect the dust
sheet traps a layer of relatively dry air.

Nice ploy on justifying an extra shed:-)

Is this sensible? Does anyone have any experience of resin sheds? Do
they fade and go brittle in light like so many plastics? Do they bend?
Can they be repaired with fibreglass or epoxy resin?

Don't know. Lots of plastic cars about.

regards
--
Tim Lamb

Bill wrote:

I have been saying for ages that we need a separate shed for the garden
tools that are put in after a bit of a dig or mow or whatever and then
raise the shed humidity well past the tool-rusting threshold. Besides,

Whatever the construction, make sure it is well insulated and then you
can provide a small amount of heating (don't need to be much, but just
enough to keep the tools above the dew point). One solution for smaller
tool collections is simply a cupboard with some insulation and a small
tube heater or even just a small lightbulb at the base.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:53:41 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Aha, aha. I meant concrete :-)

Could be a local thing but most concrete fence posts I've seen seem to
be tapered.

Strange, I've never seen a tapered concrete post. Where's 'local' to you
then?

Leeds.

A lot of schools had them round their grounds.

It might mean simply that a local a local manufacturer made them like
that and a local contractor used them.

Derek

Derek wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:53:41 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Aha, aha. I meant concrete :-)

Could be a local thing but most concrete fence posts I've seen seem
to be tapered.

Strange, I've never seen a tapered concrete post. Where's 'local'
to you then?

Leeds.

Strange place Leeds... Mary lives there...

:-)


A lot of schools had them round their grounds.

It might mean simply that a local a local manufacturer made them like
that and a local contractor used them.

Come to think of it I have seen those holding chain link fencing. Must be a
school thing.

Anyway I was talking about square fence posts like wot are used to hold up
wany lap pamels.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , Bill
writes
Is this sensible? Does anyone have any experience of resin sheds? Do
they fade and go brittle in light like so many plastics? Do they bend?
Can they be repaired with fibreglass or epoxy resin?

Can anyone help with advice?
I've got a Keter 8x6 'resin' shed, it's almost 5 now. It's on a
flagstone base with no anchors but there are holes in the floor for you
to screw it down if necessary.

It's not discoloured or at least if it has it's done it gracefully and
consistently. They do bend if you lean heavy things against the walls
but mine has regained its shape almost entirely after I made that
mistake. Even when the walls were bent out it didn't leak.

It's been waterproof and needed no running repairs during its life. If
you do decide to buy one, find a friend with a Costco card, they're
around £250 less than they are in B&Q (last time I saw mine it was the
wrong side of £500, I paid less than £300 at my local Costco)

The after sales is excellent, mine came missing a peg, I phoned the
support number and one came in the post next day.

Disadvantages are that the shelves have buckled under the excessive
weight (my fault, it was too heavy) and it's difficult to fit more
because you can't add your own brackets easily. I've got free standing
metal shelving in mine.

Unfortunately the smell is also missing, there's something very special
about the smell of a proper wooden shed filled with tools and the resin
ones just don't have it.
--
Clint Sharp

Clint Sharp wrote:

I've got a Keter 8x6 'resin' shed, it's almost 5 now. It's on a
flagstone base with no anchors but there are holes in the floor for you
to screw it down if necessary.

It's not discoloured or at least if it has it's done it gracefully and
consistently. They do bend if you lean heavy things against the walls
but mine has regained its shape almost entirely after I made that
mistake. Even when the walls were bent out it didn't leak.

It's been waterproof and needed no running repairs during its life. If
you do decide to buy one, find a friend with a Costco card, they're
around £250 less than they are in B&Q (last time I saw mine it was the
wrong side of £500, I paid less than £300 at my local Costco)

The after sales is excellent, mine came missing a peg, I phoned the
support number and one came in the post next day.

Disadvantages are that the shelves have buckled under the excessive
weight (my fault, it was too heavy) and it's difficult to fit more
because you can't add your own brackets easily. I've got free standing
metal shelving in mine.

Unfortunately the smell is also missing, there's something very special
about the smell of a proper wooden shed filled with tools and the resin
ones just don't have it.

This is exactly the sort of info I was after, so thanks for the help.

It looks as though B&Q isn't too uncompetitive at the moment. Cheaper
than Argos and I can get the OAP discount. I'll investigate Costco. It's
years since I've used them. I've been back to B&Q for another look, but
the poor assembly of the small plastic stores and the fact that all the
sheds are up in the air, plus the lack of knowledge of the staff don't
exactly help.

I'd be planning to put it under some trees, so I think the roots might
be a problem. We are on what I believe is a fairly shallow topsoil on
sandstone, so the roots are near the surface and do move the flags on
the pavement outside.

The one thing I can't find from the Keter website is how long the
assembly takes and whether 2 people are essential for the whole job or
just for fitting the roof. I assume I'd have to find a second pair of
hands for a good 8 hours after the ground was prepared.

Thanks again.

Billaboard wrote:


The one thing I can't find from the Keter website is how long the
assembly takes and whether 2 people are essential for the whole job or
just for fitting the roof. I assume I'd have to find a second pair of
hands for a good 8 hours after the ground was prepared.

I assembled one of these a few weeks ago, I think it was this one
http://outstanding-keter.co.il/catal...t=7&pr=1&num=4

Doddle. Did it by myself in well under 4 hours, including unpacking it.
All the parts were marked, instructions very clear, nothing heavy to lift.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:29:04 UTC, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Billaboard wrote:


The one thing I can't find from the Keter website is how long the
assembly takes and whether 2 people are essential for the whole job or
just for fitting the roof. I assume I'd have to find a second pair of
hands for a good 8 hours after the ground was prepared.

I assembled one of these a few weeks ago, I think it was this one
http://outstanding-keter.co.il/catal...t=7&pr=1&num=4

Doddle. Did it by myself in well under 4 hours, including unpacking it.
All the parts were marked, instructions very clear, nothing heavy to lift.

We got these:

http://outstanding-keter.co.il/catalog-index.asp?cat=2

We bought two Jumbos, which are basically a bundled XL and an extension.
I put one up as an XL, and the other as an XL with two extensions.

They've been up about four years now. Only minor problem was that one of
the kids managed to shut the doors on one with the bolt already in the
'down' position and mangled both the bolt and its mounting. They come
with shelf brackets, etc.

The floors are a plastic lattice, and I boarded over them to give more
localised strength (there is shelving in the big one, on feet).


--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Billaboard wrote:

The one thing I can't find from the Keter website is how long the
assembly takes and whether 2 people are essential for the whole job or
just for fitting the roof. I assume I'd have to find a second pair of
hands for a good 8 hours after the ground was prepared.

I assembled one of these a few weeks ago, I think it was this one
http://outstanding-keter.co.il/catal...t=7&pr=1&num=4

Doddle. Did it by myself in well under 4 hours, including unpacking it.
All the parts were marked, instructions very clear, nothing heavy to lift.

That's encouraging, as the one I was thinking of was one size down. I
downloaded the pdf's from the site, and it says 2 people for the roof,
and the pic shows one inside and one outside.

I'm a bit old and decrepit to be in 2 places at once, or even one place
where much work takes place.

Can you confirm the bendiness was OK? The small stores in B&Q from that
maker were terrible. I had to bend one to open the door and then the
back came loose. I assume that just reflects on the 'craftsman' who put
it together.

Billaboard wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Billaboard wrote:

The one thing I can't find from the Keter website is how long the
assembly takes and whether 2 people are essential for the whole job
or just for fitting the roof. I assume I'd have to find a second
pair of hands for a good 8 hours after the ground was prepared.

I assembled one of these a few weeks ago, I think it was this one
http://outstanding-keter.co.il/catal...t=7&pr=1&num=4

Doddle. Did it by myself in well under 4 hours, including unpacking
it. All the parts were marked, instructions very clear, nothing
heavy to lift.
That's encouraging, as the one I was thinking of was one size down. I
downloaded the pdf's from the site, and it says 2 people for the roof,
and the pic shows one inside and one outside.

It said that in the instructions for the one I did, but it was easy enough
by myself - although I'm used to working alone. The roof panels don't weigh
a lot. It would be easier with two people though.

I'm a bit old and decrepit to be in 2 places at once, or even one
place where much work takes place.

Can you confirm the bendiness was OK? The small stores in B&Q from
that maker were terrible. I had to bend one to open the door and then
the back came loose. I assume that just reflects on the 'craftsman'
who put it together.

Its one of those things that are bendy until the whole thing is assembled,
then it all locks together. I was most impressed with how rigid it was.
Very well designed & thought out.

The two part floor was joined with self tapping screws and the roof was held
to the sides with them as well. I used a drill driver. The side were held
to the base with large plastic 'bolts'. I used Mole grips to get them
really tight.

If I needed a shed I would probably buy one of these. Can't say more than
that really.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sep 18, 5:01*pm, Billaboard wrote:
Woland wrote:

Plastic: UV tends to degrade many plastic materials with time so I
wouldn't put a bet on it lasting 20 years... unless it's explicitly
certified to be UV-resistant.

Wood seems to be the longest lasting *option unless water gets its
way over, under, around... So that's the material I chose in the end
(also because it's the one you can more easily modify).

On the boat, the epoxy coat deteriorated where covered with varnish, but
where covered with paint it has been fine. Not sure if "resin" of shed
fame behaves in the same way. Perhaps I could paint it if it looked
dodgy after a year or so?

Wood would be ideal, but I have had problems with the deterioration of
the felt roof, even though we used good felt. The big wooden shed here
is laid on a concrete base with a plastic membrane, then expanded
polystyrene (?) sheet, then a ply floor. Then old carpet. This has been
fine and warm. But that is a working rather than storage shed.

My reason for looking at the "resin" shed was that I hoped the supplied
ventilated plastic floor would remove the need for damp proof membranes
etc. The shed is only for garden tools, power washer etc, and won't have
any need for power or anything. Drainage is OK, and we don't have
standing water or anything.





The outcome of all this ruminating on personal and other people's
observations is that putting the joists (even if pressure treated)
directly on the soil ( levelled, gravelled, etc it's still soil) is
pretty bad. What is always recommended is something along

- level the ground
-put damp proof barrier (thick black polyethylene sheet) on ground (or
below if you lay cement)
-put slabs on barrier
-now you can put joists on, although I would further recommend you lay
joists on bricks to make sure joists are not directly touching the
slabs and getting any stagnating water for long time

Now your shed floor would be seriously safe...

Good luck

In my last house the shed was on bricks with an air space below. We had
some problems with cats and other animals under the shed. They would
pull away the wire netting every few weeks.

Thanks for the thoughts

Bill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here with a climate somewhat similar to say Northern Scotland, we have
never built a shed (or cabin) 'on the ground'. Always on posts etc.
with an air space below. Vapour barrier in floor and the shed properly
ventilated.
Presently proposing that since someone is going to give us a 12 by 20
foot shed (plus old lumber collected) we will build a new one in our
backyard hopefully, by remaking the trusses, as a 14 by 20.
And yes it will be at least one foot above the ground at one end due
to ground slope and almost on the ground with an air space at the
other.
The only 'problem' with that is that to get a fairly heavy item such
as a snow-blower into the shed a small ramp is necessary. However this
one may be big enough to take car, so a fairly strong ramp will be
required.