Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx

My report said

1) My home, for heating and hot water is 20% below the national average. And
so it should be. My house is well insulated and I do not like it too warm.

2) My appliances create 2 times the national average of CO2 (I doubt that. I
have no TV, one computer on 24/7, CCTV on 24/7 and I use the washing
machine, dishwasher, cooker when needed)

3) my travel footprint is 3 times the national average. I also doubt that.

The action plan Action CO2 gave me is crap.

a) fit draught-proofing around doors and window.

Why? All my exterior doors and windows are double-glazed.

b) Install underfloor insulation

Nice, but I have concrete floors. ActionCO2 never asked about my floors
before suggesting that.

c) Replace your fridge and freezer with a more efficient model

Will that help?

My fridge is 3 years old and is A rated, my freezer is a little older, maybe
6 years old. It is second hand (my Grandad gave it to me) and I think it is
B rated. Will rushing out to but a new A+++ rated freezer save on CO2
emissions. I cannot see the total CO2 emissions on the manufacture of a new
freezer plus the CO2 costs of disposing of the old recycled freezer will
have a pay back of less than 10 years.

d) In dry weather use an outside line rather than your dyer

I did tick the box that said I did that already. I tend to use the drier
when it is raining, but then only when needed eg I wash all my work clothes
in one wash on a Friday night. 5 Tshirts or jumpers and 3 pairs of trousers.
If I need a pair of work clothes for Saturday morning I might need the
dryer. Even then I only dry one pair in it.

e) When replacing the car (van in my case) consider choosing the lowest CO2
model in its category

Yes but a 1.7D van is almost certainly a 1.7D van. There is not much to
choose from.

f) Whenever possible, walk, bike, car share, or use public transport

I do walk to the local shops if just for fags or beer etc. Even better is
the short cut. If I enter the Kings Head by the side door and leave via the
front door I save 20 metres by cutting a corner out. It takes a little
longer timewise but it is worth it. I do drive to do the weekly shop even
though the local supermarket is less than a mile away. Who can pick up a
full weekly shopping basket with just two arms? Diet coke and cat food are
rather bulky.

I cannot use public transport to get to work and back as I have a large
collection of tools, cables etc that I need for work. I think the bus driver
would complain if it took me 20 minutes to get on board the bus. And buses
do not have roof bars for my ladders.

So all in all, Action CO2 calculator is a pile of crap IMHO.

Adam

ARWadworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx

My report said

1) My home, for heating and hot water is 20% below the national average.
And so it should be. My house is well insulated and I do not like it too
warm.

2) My appliances create 2 times the national average of CO2 (I doubt that.
I have no TV, one computer on 24/7, CCTV on 24/7 and I use the washing
machine, dishwasher, cooker when needed)

3) my travel footprint is 3 times the national average. I also doubt that.

The action plan Action CO2 gave me is crap.

a) fit draught-proofing around doors and window.

Why? All my exterior doors and windows are double-glazed.

b) Install underfloor insulation

Nice, but I have concrete floors. ActionCO2 never asked about my floors
before suggesting that.

c) Replace your fridge and freezer with a more efficient model

Will that help?

My fridge is 3 years old and is A rated, my freezer is a little older,
maybe 6 years old. It is second hand (my Grandad gave it to me) and I
think it is B rated. Will rushing out to but a new A+++ rated freezer save
on CO2 emissions. I cannot see the total CO2 emissions on the manufacture
of a new freezer plus the CO2 costs of disposing of the old recycled
freezer will have a pay back of less than 10 years.

d) In dry weather use an outside line rather than your dyer

I did tick the box that said I did that already. I tend to use the drier
when it is raining, but then only when needed eg I wash all my work
clothes in one wash on a Friday night. 5 Tshirts or jumpers and 3 pairs of
trousers. If I need a pair of work clothes for Saturday morning I might
need the dryer. Even then I only dry one pair in it.

e) When replacing the car (van in my case) consider choosing the lowest
CO2 model in its category

Yes but a 1.7D van is almost certainly a 1.7D van. There is not much to
choose from.

f) Whenever possible, walk, bike, car share, or use public transport

I do walk to the local shops if just for fags or beer etc. Even better is
the short cut. If I enter the Kings Head by the side door and leave via
the front door I save 20 metres by cutting a corner out. It takes a little
longer timewise but it is worth it. I do drive to do the weekly shop even
though the local supermarket is less than a mile away. Who can pick up a
full weekly shopping basket with just two arms? Diet coke and cat food are
rather bulky.

I cannot use public transport to get to work and back as I have a large
collection of tools, cables etc that I need for work. I think the bus
driver would complain if it took me 20 minutes to get on board the bus.
And buses do not have roof bars for my ladders.

So all in all, Action CO2 calculator is a pile of crap IMHO.

Adam

Just had a "discussion" with SWMBO concerning "the new religion". I hate
having crap shoved down my throat by self-righteous zealots as much as the
next (wo)man and I really think this is where we are at with green issues.
People should be shown what is worthwhile doing with good factual
illustrations, not force fed the fad of the day with nothing to back it up.

My daughter is being taught to recycle at school, which, at here age, I
aplaude. But I tried a little though experiment on her (she's 4). I showed
her a package from Tescos. It was a little cardboard box of pills encased
in a plastic "clam shell". I cut off the clam shell and asked her what she
thought about it. Reply: "Recycle it Daddy". I said "good", "but how about
if it wasn't made in the first place?" "Carboard comes from trees and you
can grow new trees, but plastic is made from oil which is a precious
resource which cannot readily be regenerated". "Why did they put a nice
little cardboard box that worked perfectly well in a silly plastic shell
whose sole purpose is to cut my fingers before I chuck it in the bin?"

I suggested we should jointly write a letter to the manufacturers asking
them not to be so wasteful. Also suggested she ask her teacher if not
making something unnecessary is better that recycling. I'm going to be in
trouble if she does ;-

Cheers

Tim

--

Anti FUD, not anti-environment

I suggested we should jointly write a letter to the manufacturers asking
them not to be so wasteful. Also suggested she ask her teacher if not
making something unnecessary is better that recycling. I'm going to be in
trouble if she does ;-

Cheers

Tim

--

Anti FUD, not anti-environment

Are you saying that the benefits of recycling are overstated (re.
"good factual illustrations"), or that it's better not to produce the
stuff in the first place, or both?

I agree that it's better not to spend energy producing unnecessary
stuff, but recycling is a pragmatic thing, isn't it? At least, I
assume that persuading people to do without stuff is a lot harder than
persuading them to dispose of it in a different way.

"ARWadworth" wrote in message
om...
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx

My report said


Well oddly enough mine said the same. We never go on holiday so never fly
and my car is a clio - so small is its middle name . The clobber me on my
home yet its double glazed, insulated to the hilt ( not underfloor
heating - not feasable) and still it seems I am above the national average
on usage ( and lets not count right now my faulty heaters which havent been
on for yonks so I have no heating in the house and am only using a few units
a day energy.

I use my dishwasher three times a week. I use my washing machine once a week
and my dryer only when I have to ( rarely). I have no appliances other than
a TV and a computer ( one of each which are off more than on.

Despite all of this my home ( 2 bed bungalow) comes out at above the
national average even though my appliances are using less than half the
national average according to them.

Its total ********. I have to save and bring my foot pront down to 7 tons
even though I am already below the national average by their own
calculations.

I am inclined to use a little more and tell them to boil their heads.

I cannot use public transport to get to work and back as I have a large
collection of tools, cables etc that I need for work. I think the bus
driver would complain if it took me 20 minutes to get on board the bus.
And buses do not have roof bars for my ladders.

Neither can I. There is no public transport where I live. I would have to
walk five miles to get to a bus or train with all my things every morning.
They are simply not being realisitic.
I suppose they want everyone to work from home at being a web designer so
they dont have to go out. is that it?

So all in all, Action CO2 calculator is a pile of crap IMHO.

yes absolutely.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:11:14 UTC, "endymion"
wrote:

Despite all of this my home ( 2 bed bungalow) comes out at above the
national average even though my appliances are using less than half the
national average according to them.

Its total ********. I have to save and bring my foot pront down to 7 tons
even though I am already below the national average by their own
calculations.

Typical case of lying with statistics! Not sure if this was mentioned
recently here, but anyway:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7581120.stm

I particularly like the (true) statement that most people have an above
average number of feet!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:11:14 UTC, "endymion"
wrote:

Despite all of this my home ( 2 bed bungalow) comes out at above the
national average even though my appliances are using less than half the
national average according to them.

Its total ********. I have to save and bring my foot pront down to 7 tons
even though I am already below the national average by their own
calculations.

Typical case of lying with statistics! Not sure if this was mentioned
recently here, but anyway:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7581120.stm

I particularly like the (true) statement that most people have an above
average number of feet!

Medians and means.

12 inches is not always a rule.

Adam

ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

snip

So all in all, Action CO2 calculator is a pile of crap IMHO.

Adam

It's just told me that I'm producing 25 tonnes of CO2 every year - what a
crock of ****e....that's over 68 Kg of CO2 every day

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

"Owain" wrote in message
...
ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?
I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


"How much water do you boil to make a single cup of tea?"

Full kettle - I have a half-litre (and a 1-litre, though I rarely use
that) mug, and I want to rinse and pre-heat it before filling. But I don't
rinse it under the hot tap.

Am I the only person in the world who does not make single cups of tea? I
make pots of tea . When I make a pot of tea it is so that everyone can have
some. I dont make tea for one.

"ARWadworth" wrote in message
om...
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


Our 2 person household is 7.41 against a national average of 9.96 tonnes per
year.
Does that give me the right to walk around with my holier than thou nose in
the air?

How the **** I am going to get it all into footballs is beyond me though
TBH.

"R D S" wrote in message
...

"ARWadworth" wrote in message
om...
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


Our 2 person household is 7.41 against a national average of 9.96 tonnes
per year.
Does that give me the right to walk around with my holier than thou nose
in the air?


I am still trying to work out how we use so much quite frankly according to
them. Two of us. I run a dishwasher when full - three times a week. Washing
machine once a week. I cook once a week and microwave the rest of it (
dinners that is). One meal a day for two people.

I havent got the heating on right now . I have one computer on about three
hours a day. One TV on about two hours a day ( or less week days - just to
watch the news). We dont go on holiday. Lights are only on in one room
at night . I do have a night light because I suffer from congestion ( post
pneumonia) and like to be able to get up without fumbling around in the
dark if I need to. The house is so sealed/insulated that it has rampant
condensation right now with the weather as it is! So much for insulation.

The only thing I have is a small car to go to work three times a week and
shopping on my way home. I cant use public transport, there is none and
anyway we dont go out that often.

Yet I am supposed to reduce my water heater ( reduce it anymore and it will
be cold!) Dry outside ( I do) put under floor heating in. ( no way that can
be achieved here) and run a smaller car ( I run a small car).

I think its fixed. I think they are saying the same for everyone.

endymion wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message
...
ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?
I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


"How much water do you boil to make a single cup of tea?"

Full kettle - I have a half-litre (and a 1-litre, though I rarely use
that) mug, and I want to rinse and pre-heat it before filling. But I
don't rinse it under the hot tap.

Am I the only person in the world who does not make single cups of
tea? I make pots of tea . When I make a pot of tea it is so that
everyone can have some. I dont make tea for one.

So what if only one person wants a cup of tea? - you throw the rest down the
drain?

I often do this when cooking food - I make enough to feed a dozen people,
just on the off-chance a coach party should drop by, and if they don't, I
eat it myself.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

BlueJohn coughed up some electrons that declared:

I suggested we should jointly write a letter to the manufacturers asking
them not to be so wasteful. Also suggested she ask her teacher if not
making something unnecessary is better that recycling. I'm going to be in
trouble if she does ;-

Cheers

Tim

--

Anti FUD, not anti-environment

Are you saying that the benefits of recycling are overstated (re.
"good factual illustrations"), or that it's better not to produce the
stuff in the first place, or both?

The latter to a larger extent. Or to put it another way, recycling is a
pointless exercise comparatively if you're being totally wasteful to start
with. IMHO people should remain aware of the wider picture, and not be
blinkered into a limited course of action, which is what I perceive to be
happening (maybe wrongly) in a larger part of society.

I agree that it's better not to spend energy producing unnecessary
stuff, but recycling is a pragmatic thing, isn't it? At least, I
assume that persuading people to do without stuff is a lot harder than
persuading them to dispose of it in a different way.

Not quite - in the case of the plastic clam shell, I can see no reason for
it to exist. It's an annoyance to me, the cardboard box it's containing
serves the purpose very well anyway *and* I have to dispose of it. Same goes
for multiple layers of plastic on foodstuffs (sausages are just fine in a
bit of waxed paper, they do NOT require a silly polystyrene tray, cling
film and cardboard wrap).

I'd prefer products to be made to last, the antithesis of the consumerist
society. I'd prefer to telecommute part time, but my employers historically
wouldn't countenance it, despite the job (sysadmin) being eminently suited.

There's lots of things that could be made better for the environment without
giving up stuff, but none of it is quite as easy as banning GLS bulbs from
the government's POV.

Cheers

Tim

"R D S" wrote in message
...

"ARWadworth" wrote in message
om...
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx

just tried it, we dont drink tea or coffee so never boil a kettle, but i had
to tell them that i did,
dont have a dishwasher yet told to buy one... because one full load a day is
better than loads of bowls of hot water!!! one bowl of hot water does all
our plates (16 piece) and the washing up gets done twice a week,

underfloor insulation again, they never heard of concrete floors i guess,

Since we moved in here, we've had no kitchen as i'm re-doing it, so we have
no cooker, and are using the microwave for all our meals, yet it tells me to
use the microwave more because its more efficiant that a conventional
oven... waht conventional oven, we dont have one.

i'm to turn the thermostat down by one degree... havent bloody got one,
well, only the one on the combi boiler which senses water temp i believe.

and i'm to walk and use public transport more,
it's a mile walk to the bus stop from my house, having arthritis this is a
bit far for me to walk, and when i get there it's at least 2 quid to go into
town,
i can ride the motorbike into town, park for free, and come home for about
30p's worth of petrol.

I'm going to do another carbon calc for my motorhome next, that'll screw
things up,
got underfloor insulation.. the entire shell is a sandwich of wood,
polystyrene and alli,
got solar panels (pv) that produce all the power i need to run everything in
the van,
i get hot water as i drive along from the coolant loop from the engine to
the calorifier,
The washing machine in there is an A++ rated one, uses 30 litres of water
per wash and is fed with warm water using the free hot water from the
engine, and the electric to run it comes from the batteries, charged up from
the solar panels of the engines alternator when i'm driving.
The heating is from a diesel fired eberspacher, which also heats the hot
water calorifier up if needed, uses a max of 1 litre an hour, but only runs
for about 5 to 7 minutes per 30 minutes to keep the van at 23 degrees C.

I've got a microwave in the van, but using that more means i'd have to run
the genny or engine to re-charge the batteries, (can use it for 15 minutes a
day without it affecting the power levels from the solar charge the next
day)

And i bet it can't handle the fact that whilst i'm producing carbon from
driving it, at the same time i'm heating the hot water up for showers and
washing up later on, and producing upto 165 amps of power for re-charging
the batteries, which means a couple of hours totally re-charges the battery
bank, where as it takes almost a day on mains hookup using power station
generatored power.

endymion wrote:

"Owain" wrote in message
...
ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?
I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


"How much water do you boil to make a single cup of tea?"

Full kettle - I have a half-litre (and a 1-litre, though I rarely use
that) mug, and I want to rinse and pre-heat it before filling. But I
don't rinse it under the hot tap.

Am I the only person in the world who does not make single cups of tea?
I make pots of tea . When I make a pot of tea it is so that everyone
can have some. I dont make tea for one.

I don't make tea.
At all.

"gazz" wrote in message
...

i'm to turn the thermostat down by one degree... havent bloody got one,
well, only the one on the combi boiler which senses water temp i believe.

Well you will save a lot more if you have a proper control system.
Its bad enough that some systems were not fitted with room stats decades
ago, to not have one on a combi system is poor.
Are you sure you don't have one?

I'm fairly average. But I did some digging. It doesn't care how much
you use the train, your CO2 figure is the same. All those long distance
commuters will be pleased. I imagine the rest is as bad. After all,
how much difference does that mobile phone charger really make when I
forget to unplug it?

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
I'm fairly average. But I did some digging. It doesn't care how much
you use the train, your CO2 figure is the same. All those long
distance commuters will be pleased. I imagine the rest is as bad. After
all, how much difference does that mobile phone charger really
make when I forget to unplug it?

The real problem here is that the environmental industry thinks this survey
is the mutts nuts. Ergo politicians will accept it as kosher & start making
short term vote catching policy & tax changes as a result.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
"Why did they put a nice little cardboard box that worked perfectly well
in a silly plastic shell whose sole purpose is to cut my fingers before
I chuck it in the bin?"

One reason would be to prevent tampering.

There seems to be a fashion to open up just about anything you can - and
then not buy it. Or nick something from it.

--
*Toilet stolen from police station. Cops have nothing to go on.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

There seems to be a fashion to open up just about anything you can - and
then not buy it. Or nick something from it.

Or poison it.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

ARWadworth wrote:

Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

Not until you mentioned it...

I just tried out http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx

Yup gave it a whirl...

Apparently we are producing 20 tonnes vs the "average" 16...

3) my travel footprint is 3 times the national average. I also doubt that.

It asks if you live in a rural location, then fails to take that into
account on the journey questions - e.g. like using the car for journeys
of up to a mile - erm, unless I was visiting a neighbour, that would not
get me anywhere useful!

The action plan Action CO2 gave me is crap.

It seems to parrot the same platitudes regardless of what info you give it.

b) Install underfloor insulation

Yup got that as well. It did not comment on the stone age boiler, but
did suggest ripping and replacing the fridge!

save on CO2 emissions. I cannot see the total CO2 emissions on the
manufacture of a new freezer plus the CO2 costs of disposing of the old
recycled freezer will have a pay back of less than 10 years.

Indeed - something they often seem to ignore.

e) When replacing the car (van in my case) consider choosing the lowest
CO2 model in its category

Assumes one wants to drive something tiny and slow... I think I would
rather skip the summer flight to the med! (again)

So all in all, Action CO2 calculator is a pile of crap IMHO.

I concur...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carbon...tml/index.aspx

There is a feedback option

A few e-mails might get noticed...

If this bollox is going to be accepted as kosher we could at least try to
get it accurate.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...
endymion wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message
...
ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?
I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


"How much water do you boil to make a single cup of tea?"

Full kettle - I have a half-litre (and a 1-litre, though I rarely use
that) mug, and I want to rinse and pre-heat it before filling. But I
don't rinse it under the hot tap.

Am I the only person in the world who does not make single cups of
tea? I make pots of tea . When I make a pot of tea it is so that
everyone can have some. I dont make tea for one.

So what if only one person wants a cup of tea? - you throw the rest down
the drain?

Well, there is only two of us, but that never happens. If I make one pot of
tea it will all get drunk. One pot of tea = two and a half mugs each . I
keep the tea pot warm with a cosy.
We are big tea drinkers ( no, I dont value being told about my lifestyle and
how we should be drinking water, thankyou.) . One pot is more economical in
fact for us. On boiling of the kettle.

"endymion" wrote in message
...

"R D S" wrote in message
...

"ARWadworth" wrote in message
om...
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


Our 2 person household is 7.41 against a national average of 9.96 tonnes
per year.
Does that give me the right to walk around with my holier than thou nose
in the air?


I am still trying to work out how we use so much quite frankly according
to them. Two of us. I run a dishwasher when full - three times a week.
Washing machine once a week. I cook once a week and microwave the rest of
it ( dinners that is). One meal a day for two people.

I was asked if I had a microwave and nothing else was asked about it. I have
not used it once this year, so how does that fit into the calculations?

Adam

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim S wrote:
"Why did they put a nice little cardboard box that worked perfectly well
in a silly plastic shell whose sole purpose is to cut my fingers before
I chuck it in the bin?"

One reason would be to prevent tampering.

There seems to be a fashion to open up just about anything you can - and
then not buy it. Or nick something from it.

Probably follows the manufacturers' fashion of putting things like these
(below) on boxes:

Contents may differ from picture
Colour White/Grey/Black/Blue/Red
110-120V 60Hz

Indeed, just the other day, we wished to buy a small roll of cheap
plastic bags. The box said "small plastic bags" - without any indication
of actual size. There were around half a dozen opened and/or resealed
boxes on the shelf. :-)

Mor eseriously, I do agree. There do appear to be more (or more active)
tamperers/fiddlers/bit nickers.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

The Medway Handyman wrote:
ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carbon...tml/index.aspx

There is a feedback option

A few e-mails might get noticed...

If this bollox is going to be accepted as kosher we could at least try to
get it accurate.



Only bollox of clean animals can be kosher. :-)

Agreed - it is truly dreadful - I would expect better from a junior
science project.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...

e) When replacing the car (van in my case) consider choosing the lowest
CO2 model in its category

Assumes one wants to drive something tiny and slow... I think I would
rather skip the summer flight to the med! (again)

I do both.. I don't like the med and I don't need to drive something fast.

So all in all, Action CO2 calculator is a pile of crap IMHO.

I concur...

If you saw the figures it came up for me you would know it was cr@p.
I have a carbon foot print of 2.5 tons for a family of three.
Lets see Mary beat that with all her fancy panels and stuff.

Rod wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim S wrote:
"Why did they put a nice little cardboard box that worked perfectly well
in a silly plastic shell whose sole purpose is to cut my fingers before
I chuck it in the bin?"

One reason would be to prevent tampering.

There seems to be a fashion to open up just about anything you can - and
then not buy it. Or nick something from it.

Probably follows the manufacturers' fashion of putting things like these
(below) on boxes:

Contents may differ from picture
Colour White/Grey/Black/Blue/Red
110-120V 60Hz

Indeed, just the other day, we wished to buy a small roll of cheap
plastic bags. The box said "small plastic bags" - without any indication
of actual size. There were around half a dozen opened and/or resealed
boxes on the shelf. :-)

Mor eseriously, I do agree. There do appear to be more (or more active)
tamperers/fiddlers/bit nickers.

Not surprising when,because of the cost of the packaging, only complete
kits of anything are for sale. you cant get spare parts.

See my posts a few months back on trying to get a Sunvic RECEIVER or
even a BOARD for it for a wireless stat.

Owain wrote:
gazz wrote:
I'm going to do another carbon calc for my motorhome next, that'll
screw things up,

Take 200 motorhomes, remove the wheels, and stack 'em up, and you have
the government's ideal prefabricated environmentally-friendly key worker
housing solution.


Well that's what they are, most of the year.

Not the most generously-proportioned or aesthetic of accommodation
though, and not much room for a sizeable collection of power tools.


Answer is mobile homes. Ideal entry level accomodation actually.


Owain

endymion wrote:

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...
endymion wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message
...
ARWadworth wrote:
Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?
I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx


"How much water do you boil to make a single cup of tea?"

Full kettle - I have a half-litre (and a 1-litre, though I rarely use
that) mug, and I want to rinse and pre-heat it before filling. But I
don't rinse it under the hot tap.

Am I the only person in the world who does not make single cups of
tea? I make pots of tea . When I make a pot of tea it is so that
everyone can have some. I dont make tea for one.

So what if only one person wants a cup of tea? - you throw the rest
down the drain?

Well, there is only two of us, but that never happens. If I make one pot
of tea it will all get drunk. One pot of tea = two and a half mugs each
. I keep the tea pot warm with a cosy.
We are big tea drinkers ( no, I dont value being told about my lifestyle
and how we should be drinking water, thankyou.) . One pot is more
economical in fact for us. On boiling of the kettle.

Its all bollox. To reduce carbon footprint, make carbon expensive. Its
that simple,. People, when faced with huge bills, will naturally find
out 'what works' to reduce them.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:49:27 +0100, Rod
wrote:


Probably follows the manufacturers' fashion of putting things like these
(below) on boxes:

Contents may differ from picture
Colour White/Grey/Black/Blue/Red
110-120V 60Hz

Indeed, just the other day, we wished to buy a small roll of cheap
plastic bags. The box said "small plastic bags" - without any indication
of actual size. There were around half a dozen opened and/or resealed
boxes on the shelf. :-)


Does anybody else have the feeling that the stuff you buy in shops
actually costs approximately nothing, all you are paying for is the
cost of advertising, marketing and sales.

I first came to this conclusion years ago when I saw a pair of Chinese
copy mole grips in the £1.00 bin at the petrol station. It would cost
Ca. £10.00 for me to package and ship an item like that to the next
town

-and they had come from China.

Derek

In article ,
Derek Geldard wrote:
Does anybody else have the feeling that the stuff you buy in shops
actually costs approximately nothing, all you are paying for is the
cost of advertising, marketing and sales.

I first came to this conclusion years ago when I saw a pair of Chinese
copy mole grips in the £1.00 bin at the petrol station. It would cost
Ca. £10.00 for me to package and ship an item like that to the next
town

Is that in Harrods gift paper and same day delivery?

UK second class post and a jiffy bag - less than a fiver.

-and they had come from China.

But likely in a container by sea. Which is extremely cheap.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 17:29:50 +0100, Tim S wrote:

ARWadworth coughed up some electrons that declared:

Has anyone else filled in one of these besides me?

I just tried out
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/carboncalc/html/index.aspx

My report said

1) My home, for heating and hot water is 20% below the national average.
And so it should be. My house is well insulated and I do not like it too
warm.

2) My appliances create 2 times the national average of CO2 (I doubt that.
I have no TV, one computer on 24/7, CCTV on 24/7 and I use the washing
machine, dishwasher, cooker when needed)

3) my travel footprint is 3 times the national average. I also doubt that.

The action plan Action CO2 gave me is crap.

a) fit draught-proofing around doors and window.

Why? All my exterior doors and windows are double-glazed.

b) Install underfloor insulation

Nice, but I have concrete floors. ActionCO2 never asked about my floors
before suggesting that.

c) Replace your fridge and freezer with a more efficient model

Will that help?

My fridge is 3 years old and is A rated, my freezer is a little older,
maybe 6 years old. It is second hand (my Grandad gave it to me) and I
think it is B rated. Will rushing out to but a new A+++ rated freezer save
on CO2 emissions. I cannot see the total CO2 emissions on the manufacture
of a new freezer plus the CO2 costs of disposing of the old recycled
freezer will have a pay back of less than 10 years.

d) In dry weather use an outside line rather than your dyer

I did tick the box that said I did that already. I tend to use the drier
when it is raining, but then only when needed eg I wash all my work
clothes in one wash on a Friday night. 5 Tshirts or jumpers and 3 pairs of
trousers. If I need a pair of work clothes for Saturday morning I might
need the dryer. Even then I only dry one pair in it.

e) When replacing the car (van in my case) consider choosing the lowest
CO2 model in its category

Yes but a 1.7D van is almost certainly a 1.7D van. There is not much to
choose from.

f) Whenever possible, walk, bike, car share, or use public transport

I do walk to the local shops if just for fags or beer etc. Even better is
the short cut. If I enter the Kings Head by the side door and leave via
the front door I save 20 metres by cutting a corner out. It takes a little
longer timewise but it is worth it. I do drive to do the weekly shop even
though the local supermarket is less than a mile away. Who can pick up a
full weekly shopping basket with just two arms? Diet coke and cat food are
rather bulky.

I cannot use public transport to get to work and back as I have a large
collection of tools, cables etc that I need for work. I think the bus
driver would complain if it took me 20 minutes to get on board the bus.
And buses do not have roof bars for my ladders.

So all in all, Action CO2 calculator is a pile of crap IMHO.

Adam

Just had a "discussion" with SWMBO concerning "the new religion". I hate
having crap shoved down my throat by self-righteous zealots as much as the
next (wo)man and I really think this is where we are at with green issues.
People should be shown what is worthwhile doing with good factual
illustrations, not force fed the fad of the day with nothing to back it up.

My daughter is being taught to recycle at school, which, at here age, I
aplaude. But I tried a little though experiment on her (she's 4). I showed
her a package from Tescos. It was a little cardboard box of pills encased
in a plastic "clam shell". I cut off the clam shell and asked her what she
thought about it. Reply: "Recycle it Daddy". I said "good", "but how about
if it wasn't made in the first place?" "Carboard comes from trees and you
can grow new trees, but plastic is made from oil which is a precious
resource which cannot readily be regenerated". "Why did they put a nice
little cardboard box that worked perfectly well in a silly plastic shell
whose sole purpose is to cut my fingers before I chuck it in the bin?"

I suggested we should jointly write a letter to the manufacturers asking
them not to be so wasteful. Also suggested she ask her teacher if not
making something unnecessary is better that recycling. I'm going to be in
trouble if she does ;-

Many people seem to forget about the 3 "R"s: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
Recycle is the last of them and should only be there if Reduction or
Reuse is not possible.

IOW: There's much too much emphasis on Recycling.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

Derek Geldard wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:49:27 +0100, Rod
wrote:


Probably follows the manufacturers' fashion of putting things like these
(below) on boxes:

Contents may differ from picture
Colour White/Grey/Black/Blue/Red
110-120V 60Hz

Indeed, just the other day, we wished to buy a small roll of cheap
plastic bags. The box said "small plastic bags" - without any indication
of actual size. There were around half a dozen opened and/or resealed
boxes on the shelf. :-)


Does anybody else have the feeling that the stuff you buy in shops
actually costs approximately nothing, all you are paying for is the
cost of advertising, marketing and sales.


Yes. Its another form of wealth redistribution, characteristic in an
economy with an excess of cash.


I first came to this conclusion years ago when I saw a pair of Chinese
copy mole grips in the £1.00 bin at the petrol station. It would cost
Ca. £10.00 for me to package and ship an item like that to the next
town

-and they had come from China.


Screw by the kilogram in brown paper bags will come back, for sure..



Derek

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:02:06 +0100 Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
But likely in a container by sea. Which is extremely cheap.

So it seems: in preparation for emigrating I have just shipped a
selection of my books (got the number down to 500!!!), DVDs, 70
souvenir coffee mugs from around the world and some clothes. 16 cartons
in total. Cost for the removal firm to come to my home, pack
everything, ship to Melbourne and at the other end deliver and unpack
was £500. I can't help thinking that sending it all to Manchester would
have cost more. IIRC the rate for a container load to Australia is no
more than about £3-4K and that's a lot of almost anything.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:01:05 +0100, Derek Geldard
wrote:

Does anybody else have the feeling that the stuff you buy in shops
actually costs approximately nothing, all you are paying for is the
cost of advertising, marketing and sales.

I first came to this conclusion years ago when I saw a pair of Chinese
copy mole grips in the £1.00 bin at the petrol station. It would cost
Ca. £10.00 for me to package and ship an item like that to the next
town

-and they had come from China.


There was a bloke on Dragons Den last week demonstrating a very nice
device that detects a bath overflow working and instantly turns both
bath taps off. The point was it was mechanical and no electric
involved. It looked a really good gadget. Unfortunately he said it
would be made in China for £5 and sold for £60.

In article ,
EricP wrote:
There was a bloke on Dragons Den last week demonstrating a very nice
device that detects a bath overflow working and instantly turns both
bath taps off. The point was it was mechanical and no electric
involved. It looked a really good gadget. Unfortunately he said it
would be made in China for £5 and sold for £60.

Blame that on the importers/retailers, then.

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:02:06 +0100 Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
But likely in a container by sea. Which is extremely cheap.

So it seems: in preparation for emigrating I have just shipped a
selection of my books (got the number down to 500!!!), DVDs, 70
souvenir coffee mugs from around the world and some clothes. 16 cartons
in total. Cost for the removal firm to come to my home, pack
everything, ship to Melbourne and at the other end deliver and unpack
was £500. I can't help thinking that sending it all to Manchester would
have cost more. IIRC the rate for a container load to Australia is no
more than about £3-4K and that's a lot of almost anything.

The only time I sent a container, the damn ship ran aground. So I was
contacted by some never-heard-of insurer asking if they could settle on
my behalf. Seems they have to go round every single container and
contact the owner. All I had to do was sign a form and forget about it,
but was odd at the time.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In message , Owain
writes
It's a sin to waste food, I tell myself as I buy up all the
reduced-to-10p chocolate cakes at 9pm
You've been watching me... 7.5Kg of yellow sticker strawberries for 30p
waiting in my freezer for a nice jam making day. I don't talk about the
chocolate/toffee/whatever puddings, they're hidden in a quiet and rarely
plundered corner of the freezer waiting for my attention.

Owain


--
Clint Sharp

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Its all bollox. To reduce carbon footprint, make carbon expensive. Its
that simple,. People, when faced with huge bills, will naturally find
out 'what works' to reduce them.


How is that going to justify all the civil servants?

They could have done that for fuel, instead of the 16 (or whatever)
sorts of road tax.

Andy

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:13:14 +0100 Rod wrote :
The only time I sent a container, the damn ship ran aground.

Thank you for your words of encouragement g

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk