For your review and input...

Soldering

'''Beginner's guide to soldering'''


Solders are low melting point metal alloys mainly used to join:
* Electrical [[cables|wires]] & components
* Copper pipes
* Lead glazing

Soldering is a skill that takes practice to get right, and there are
many ways to get it wrong. Following the guidance here should
eliminate a lot of the potential causes of trouble, making it possible
to learn relatively quickly.


=Methods=
Different methods are used for different tasks.

Electrical soldering joins copper and tin using tin lead solder with a
central core of non-corrosive flux. The joint is made with an
[[Soldering irons etc|iron]].

Plumbing soldering uses solid solder (often lead free) with a separate
wipe-on corrosive flux, and the joint is made with a blowlamp.
Yorkshire (solder ring) fittings have the solder already in them.

Leaded glass work uses a large electric [[Soldering irons etc|iron]]
to solder lead came.

Signwriting requires a high temperature iron.

==Other approaches==
Anyone familiar with soldering can point out that other methods of
doing things also exist, and that assorted variations from the
instructions given are possible. This article is a guide aimed at
beginners, who are most likely to succeed when avoiding the extra
complications in the various alternative approaches.


==Electrical==
===Equipment===
You'll need
* [[Soldering irons etc|Soldering iron]], 25w or thereabouts
* Solder intended for electronics use (not plumbing solder)
* Sharp [[knives|knife]]


===Mechanical support===
Tin/lead solder is a very weak material, and is unable to hold a joint
together for long under the normal stresses that occur when a joint is
moved around. A reliable joint will therefore either not be moved or
will have some mechanical support.

Mechanical support is uually provided by any of:
* poking the wire through a hole in the PCB
* twisting the wires together
* wrapping the wire round the metal its soldered to
* Potting the joint (encasing it in a block of [[adhesive|resin]]) is
used for some [[Taking electricity outside|outdoor electrical work]]

===Clean===
First the metals to be joined must be perfectly clean. 'It'll be ok'
isn't good enough. Any trace of muck can be removed with the [[knives|
knife]], the result must be fully clean & shiny. Metals that aren't
new and have been in use will generally need the surface abrading to
remove the dull oxide surface layer.

===Clamp===
When possible, hold the wire or wires to be soldered in place. When
wires aren't mechanically fixed beforehand, some sort of temporary
clamp will hold them while soldering.

One of the most useful clamps for this is an ordinary pair of pliers.
The pliers sit on the table, and the wire is passed under the pliers
and up between the 2 sides, holding it while soldering.

===Tin===
If the wires aren't mechanically preattached, its best to tin each
separately first before making the joint. This means coating each wire
with solder. Tinning is usually not necessary, but makes the job
easier.

===Join===
Make the joint: apply [[Soldering irons etc|iron]] to joint, then feed
some solder onto the iron tip. When the solder flows over the joint,
hopefully you'll get a good joint, where the joint is wetted by the
metal. When solder has flowed over all or nearly all of the joint,
remove the iron. This should all take a few seconds.

When the iron is removed from a succesful joint, its necessary to keep
the joint perfectly still until several seconds after the metal has
solidified. Solder goes through a eutectic phase as it sets - this is
a brief time when it looks solid but is in fact still semi-liquid. If
movement occurs during this couple of seconds, the joint will be
unreliable or fail immediately.


===Solder not wetting===
A bad joint happens when solder flows on but the metal isn't wetted,
so the solder doesn't flow freely over both metals being joined. When
this happens, scrape any muck residue off and resolder.

The mains 2 causes of an unwetted joint are contamination of the joint
and lack of active flux.

Contamination: any dirt residue or oxidation on the metal surface can
cause this. You'll see a bit of blackened flux on the joint. Clean all
muck off with the [[knives|knife]] & try again.

Flux exhausted: Solder used for electrical & electronic work has a
central core of flux. Once heated this flux is only active for a few
sconds. If making the joint takes too long, the flux will no longer be
active, and a wetted joint becomes unlikely. You can't take your time
over a join, its got to be done in a matter of seconds or it usually
won't work.


==Plumbing==
===Equipment===
You'll need:
* blowlamp
* either yorkshire fittings or end feed fittings plus solder
* wire wool
* a heatproof mat/ sheet/ tile in many cases

Choose your solder. Hot water and central heating circuits can use any
type of plumbing solder, including leaded. Cold water, which may be
used for drinking, is now required to only use lead free solder.

Use the wire wool to clean all surfaces to be soldered. They must be
bright and shiny, as well as dry.

Apply a thin film of flux to the surfaces being joined.

Assemble the joint.

Position the heat protecting mat to prevent any nearby items being
burnt by the blowlamp. A spare ceramic tile can be used, but these
retain the heat for a while after work.

Play the flame around the joint to get roughly even heating.

Yorkshire fittings: Heat the joint until the solder becomes visible at
the joint.

End feed fittings: Feed solder onto the joint all round. As long as
the metal is wetted this will wick into the joint.

Let it cool off, keeping it absolutely still until the solder has set
throughout the joint.

When cooled, clean any flux residue off with the wire wool. The flux
residue is corrosive, and if left on will form green corrosion
patches. (Copper water pipe is thick enough not to be holed by flux
corrosion.)


==Glass work==
Leaded glass work requires a large [[Soldering irons etc|iron]] in the
region of 100w or more. Lead came is shaped & soldered rather than
copper.


==Signwriting==
[[Soldering irons etc|Irons]] can be used on wood for permanent
signwriting. A higher temperature is used than for soft soldering. Gas
irons are more suitable than electric, having a wider and higher
working temperature range.

Old [[Soldering irons etc#Pre-war irons|pre-electric irons]] could
also be used, but there's little motivation to use them.



==See Also==
* [[Special:Allpages|Wiki Contents]]
* [[Special:Categories|Wiki Subject Categories]]



[[Category:Electrical]]
[[Category:Plumbing]]
[[Category:Tools]]

wrote:
For your review and input...
SNIP

Use the wire wool to clean all surfaces to be soldered. They must be
bright and shiny, as well as dry.

Worth mentioning pipe cleaning brushes for the inside of fittings. I always
clean inside the fitting as well as outside the pipe.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/55985/...EANING-_-55985

Also the auto pipe cleaners
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Plumbing-Too...ol/invt/159884


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:

wrote:
For your review and input...
SNIP

Use the wire wool to clean all surfaces to be soldered. They must be
bright and shiny, as well as dry.

Worth mentioning pipe cleaning brushes for the inside of fittings. I always
clean inside the fitting as well as outside the pipe.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/55985/...EANING-_-55985

Also the auto pipe cleaners
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Plumbing-Too...ol/invt/159884


I don't see any mention of soldering jewellery (soldering silver).
It's a very different process and the term "silver solder" causes much
confusion as it is also used to name other solder not used for
soldering silver!

wrote in message
...

All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all the
repairs.
You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free solder for
electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

It can be a bugger to work with if you try and use an old iron as they don't
get hot enough (at least the decent temperature controlled ones didn't).

Anyone still using tin/lead for electronic repairs will get a shock if they
buy some new lead free solder and expect it to work the same way.

HI

A couple of suggestions....

....specifically about soldering in stained-glass work



Leaded glass work uses a large electric [[Soldering irons etc|iron]]
to solder lead came.

Large high-powered - 60 - 200 watts - usually temperature-controlled

Working with lead came is particularly tricky as the melting point of
the came is close to that of the solder - so the whole lot can melt at
the same time, if you're not skilled / careful.

There's also copper-foil stained-glass work (where the glass edges are
wrapped in a thin, self-adhesive copper foil which is then soldered -
also with a high-powered iron (typically up to 150W), usually leaded
'blowpipe' solder and a liquid corrosive flux (Bakers fluid or a
proprietary brand).

....but this is all getting a bit specialist and beyond the realms of
general diy soldering.


Signwriting requires a high temperature iron.

==Other approaches==
Anyone familiar with soldering can point out that other methods of
doing things also exist, and that assorted variations from the
instructions given are possible. This article is a guide aimed at
beginners, who are most likely to succeed when avoiding the extra
complications in the various alternative approaches.


==Electrical==
===Equipment===
You'll need
* [[Soldering irons etc|Soldering iron]], 25w or thereabouts
* Solder intended for electronics use (not plumbing solder)
* Sharp [[knives|knife]]


===Mechanical support===
Tin/lead solder is a very weak material, and is unable to hold a joint
together for long under the normal stresses that occur when a joint is
moved around. A reliable joint will therefore either not be moved or
will have some mechanical support.

Mechanical support is uually provided by any of:
* poking the wire through a hole in the PCB
* twisting the wires together
* wrapping the wire round the metal its soldered to
* Potting the joint (encasing it in a block of [[adhesive|resin]]) is
used for some [[Taking electricity outside|outdoor electrical work]]

===Clean===
First the metals to be joined must be perfectly clean. 'It'll be ok'
isn't good enough. Any trace of muck can be removed with the [[knives|
knife]], the result must be fully clean & shiny. Metals that aren't
new and have been in use will generally need the surface abrading to
remove the dull oxide surface layer.

===Clamp===
When possible, hold the wire or wires to be soldered in place. When
wires aren't mechanically fixed beforehand, some sort of temporary
clamp will hold them while soldering.

One of the most useful clamps for this is an ordinary pair of pliers.
The pliers sit on the table, and the wire is passed under the pliers
and up between the 2 sides, holding it while soldering.

===Tin===
If the wires aren't mechanically preattached, its best to tin each
separately first before making the joint. This means coating each wire
with solder. Tinning is usually not necessary, but makes the job
easier.

===Join===
Make the joint: apply [[Soldering irons etc|iron]] to joint, then feed
some solder onto the iron tip. When the solder flows over the joint,
hopefully you'll get a good joint, where the joint is wetted by the
metal. When solder has flowed over all or nearly all of the joint,
remove the iron. This should all take a few seconds.

Emphasise the fact that the iron & joint must be up to soldering
temperature before the wire solder is applied. If the solder doesn't
melt as soon as it hits the joint then continue heating & try again.




When the iron is removed from a succesful joint, its necessary to keep
the joint perfectly still until several seconds after the metal has
solidified. Solder goes through a eutectic phase as it sets - this is
a brief time when it looks solid but is in fact still semi-liquid. If
movement occurs during this couple of seconds, the joint will be
unreliable or fail immediately.


===Solder not wetting===
A bad joint happens when solder flows on but the metal isn't wetted,
so the solder doesn't flow freely over both metals being joined. When
this happens, scrape any muck residue off and resolder.

The mains 2 causes of an unwetted joint are contamination of the joint
and lack of active flux.

Contamination: any dirt residue or oxidation on the metal surface can
cause this. You'll see a bit of blackened flux on the joint. Clean all
muck off with the [[knives|knife]] & try again.

Flux exhausted: Solder used for electrical & electronic work has a
central core of flux. Once heated this flux is only active for a few
sconds. If making the joint takes too long, the flux will no longer be
active, and a wetted joint becomes unlikely. You can't take your time
over a join, its got to be done in a matter of seconds or it usually
won't work.


==Plumbing==
===Equipment===
You'll need:
* blowlamp
* either yorkshire fittings or end feed fittings plus solder
* wire wool
* a heatproof mat/ sheet/ tile in many cases

Choose your solder. Hot water and central heating circuits can use any
type of plumbing solder, including leaded. Cold water, which may be
used for drinking, is now required to only use lead free solder.

Use the wire wool to clean all surfaces to be soldered. They must be
bright and shiny, as well as dry.

Apply a thin film of flux to the surfaces being joined.

Assemble the joint.

Position the heat protecting mat to prevent any nearby items being
burnt by the blowlamp. A spare ceramic tile can be used, but these
retain the heat for a while after work.

Play the flame around the joint to get roughly even heating.

Yorkshire fittings: Heat the joint until the solder becomes visible at
the joint.

End feed fittings: Feed solder onto the joint all round. As long as
the metal is wetted this will wick into the joint.

Let it cool off, keeping it absolutely still until the solder has set
throughout the joint.

When cooled, clean any flux residue off with the wire wool. The flux
residue is corrosive, and if left on will form green corrosion
patches. (Copper water pipe is thick enough not to be holed by flux
corrosion.)


==Glass work==
Leaded glass work requires a large [[Soldering irons etc|iron]] in the
region of 100w or more. Lead came is shaped & soldered rather than
copper.

Also copper foil ..... 'Tiffany' technique (see above)


Hope this helps
Adrian

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 17:56:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Electrical soldering joins copper and tin using tin lead solder

Not on new goods. Lead is banned in the EU. You can still get lead/tin
solder and repair of old kit is still allowed for which you really need
lead/tin solder as the modern lead free and old lead/tin solders don't
work well together.

* [[Soldering irons etc|Soldering iron]], 25w or thereabouts

15W is fine for most electronic work. You only need 25W for large
terminals or big coonectors. Ideally a temperature controlled iron is
best, particularly these days with lead free solder that has a higher
melting point and shorter plastic stage.

* Sharp [[knives|knife]]

What for? Ah scraping wires to clean 'em.

* Small snips or wire cutters
* Small pair of pliers

When the solder flows over the joint, hopefully you'll get a good joint,
where the joint is wetted by the metal.

Wetted? Needs an explantion ie When the solder has flowed smoothly over
the metals to be joined and is not in beads or globules on the surface.

You'll need:
* Damp cloth - for wiping excess solder away before it hardens and for
removing flux residues. Plumbing flux is acidic and can lead to green
corrsion on the exterior of the pipe over time if not removed.

Use the wire wool to clean all surfaces to be soldered. They must be
bright and shiny, as well as dry.

Or a pipe cleaner or bit of emery paper.

Position the heat protecting mat to prevent any nearby items being
burnt by the blowlamp. A spare ceramic tile can be used, but these
retain the heat for a while after work.

Yeah I'd not use a tile a it may crack or explode due to the rapid uneven
heating. A heat mat is very good and doesn't retain much heat at all, it's
probably easier to position than a rigid tile as well. I wouldn't like to
touch a tile that has had a blow lamp on it for 20 seconds or so.

When cooled, clean any flux residue off with the wire wool. The flux
residue is corrosive, and if left on will form green corrosion
patches. (Copper water pipe is thick enough not to be holed by flux
corrosion.)

Damp cloth is better and quicker. Also allows you to tidy up drips of
solder. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...

All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all the
repairs.
You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free solder for
electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

It can be a bugger to work with if you try and use an old iron as they
don't get hot enough (at least the decent temperature controlled ones
didn't).

Anyone still using tin/lead for electronic repairs will get a shock if
they buy some new lead free solder and expect it to work the same way.

There are enough official exemptions that tin-lead solder should continue to
be made indefinitely. It is a common misconception in the electronic repair
trade that the RoHS legislation mandates the cessation of the use of leaded
solder - it doesn't. The only requirements are that any equipment placed on
the market after July 2006 must be manufactured using lead-free, and
legally, any repair agent must preserve that lead-free status by using only
lead-free solder and components to carry out repair work on any such
equipment.

There is no requirement to repair equipment made with leaded solder, with
any other material and indeed, many metalurgical experts in soldering
strongly recommend that the two types of solder are not mixed in the same
joint, because of the possibility of it causing long-term compromise of the
joint's chemical stability.

Lead-free solder is not a good replacement material for leaded solder. Since
its introduction, manufacturers have had trouble with it, and as a service
person, it causes me daily headaches. What was a mature and reliable
technology, has been wrecked by this dreadful stuff, with bad joints being
back to beyond the level they were when printed circuit construction
technology was first in mass use back in the early 70's. It is mechanically
poor in vibration situations, and it is accepted by the idiots who
introduced the legislation, that it can't be trusted to look after your life
for you. Which is why the avionics industry, medical instrument industry and
the military, all have exemptions from its use. The pure tin coatings on the
legs of RoHS approved components, are also causing problems with tin pest,
where the coating breaks down into a powder, and compromises the joint.

Lead-free solder is also much worse at wetting metals commonly used in
electronic components, which means that the fluxes used with it are slightly
acidic, and much more aggressive than those used with leaded solder. They
are thus more dangerous to health, and good ventilation of the work area is
essential.

As far as temperature and 'feel' go, you can use an existing iron running at
a typical figure of around 680 to 700 deg F, but if you try to solder any
large components, you will find that the temperature drop at the tip,
quickly gets you in trouble with the solder dropping below the liquidus
point, and becoming 'pasty' because it is not a true eutectic alloy, as
leaded solder is. This can be mitigated to some extent by using a
thermostatically controlled iron, with a tight control loop which quickly
responds to any drop in tip temperature. If you have a temperature
controlled station, then it needs to go up to a setting of around 750 deg F.
An improvement in the 'workability' of the solder is obtained by introducing
a small percentage of silver into the alloy. This reduces the melting
temperature by a few degrees, although still not as low as leaded solder,
but increases the price per reel, by quite a substantial amount.Lead-free
solder also eats the plating on your iron's tip. There are 'chemical'
reasons for this, as well as the fact that you run your iron hotter which
makes the plating oxidise more readily. The more aggressive flux also plays
its part.

All in all, it's a very big subject, and has caused the industry no end of
trouble for no real gain. 80% of the world's lead production goes to vehicle
battery production, and this is almost entirely recycled. The same could
have been done for recovery of lead in solder. There's no real evidence that
the lead in solder was even causing any ecological problems in the first
place. Some chinless wonder deep in the EU somewhere, has discovered that
there is lead in solder, and that it was going into landfill, so has come up
with the idea of completely changing the technology to cure this perceived
problem, instead of working with the recycling industry to instead recover
it. Just think of the much more tangible damage that's being done world
wide, by the millions of watts of additional energy being used daily, to run
the manufacturers' solder bath and reflow machines to cope with the stuff,
to say nothing of the millions of hand soldering tools all over the world,
which are now having to be run hotter ...

Arfa

In article
,
wrote:
Use the wire wool to clean all surfaces to be soldered. They must be
bright and shiny, as well as dry.

I don't use wire wool anymore. Nasty stuff. Screwfix and the sheds - and
of course PMs - do a cleaner strip which is easier to use and long
lasting. Much easier to do round the back of a pipe too.

--
*I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all
the repairs. You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free
solder for electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

There are no plans to stop supplying lead solder for repair work. It is
just more difficult to get.

It can be a bugger to work with if you try and use an old iron as they
don't get hot enough (at least the decent temperature controlled ones
didn't).

A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot enough
easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.

Anyone still using tin/lead for electronic repairs will get a shock if
they buy some new lead free solder and expect it to work the same way.

Anyone using lead free for any reason will get a shock if they expect it
to work as well.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:55:36 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Worth mentioning pipe cleaning brushes for the inside of fittings.

I guess it depends how long you keep your fittings, I've never had a
problem but then most fittings I use are still bright and shiny from
manufacture...

Also the auto pipe cleaners
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Plumbing-Too...ol/invt/159884

Awww, I was expecting some automatic powered device not the manual push on
and rotate jobbie.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:39:40 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free solder for
electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

In the EU yes but not in the US (yet?). This has lead to some US companies
pulling out of te EU market as changing to lead free techniques wasn't
deemed economic.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:39:40 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



wrote in message
...

All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all the
repairs.

And look what happened to Marconi...

--
Frank Erskine

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all
the repairs. You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free
solder for electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

There are no plans to stop supplying lead solder for repair work. It is
just more difficult to get.

It can be a bugger to work with if you try and use an old iron as they
don't get hot enough (at least the decent temperature controlled ones
didn't).

A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot enough
easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.

The ones with the wrong bit.
They come in different temp ratings on the ones without a thermistor in the
heater.
They have an alloy with different curie points to control the heater.

Obviously if you have an RF rework station or similar (a few hundred quid)
you can set the temp within a degree or two and as they have variable output
upto a couple of hundred watts they work well with big and small stuff.


Anyone still using tin/lead for electronic repairs will get a shock if
they buy some new lead free solder and expect it to work the same way.

Anyone using lead free for any reason will get a shock if they expect it
to work as well.

It sure takes more skill, but it does work.

I doubt if I can do a good job with the stuff anymore as its been a few
years since I did anything particularly demanding with a soldering iron. I
was going to resolder some surface mount stuff on a vaio motherboard but I
couldn't see the pads as they were so fine.

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:39:40 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



wrote in message
...

All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all the
repairs.

And look what happened to Marconi...

Yes I know, I was against buying Fore from the start but did they listen....
Who do you think designed the CN21 network for BT?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all
the repairs. You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free
solder for electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

There are no plans to stop supplying lead solder for repair work. It is
just more difficult to get.

It can be a bugger to work with if you try and use an old iron as they
don't get hot enough (at least the decent temperature controlled ones
didn't).

A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot enough
easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.


Fixed temp irons are common in industrial workspaces so that the technicians
cannot arse up the process too much by selecting the wrong working temp for
the task.

cheers

David

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all
the repairs. You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free
solder for electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

There are no plans to stop supplying lead solder for repair work. It is
just more difficult to get.

It can be a bugger to work with if you try and use an old iron as they
don't get hot enough (at least the decent temperature controlled ones
didn't).

A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot enough
easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.

The ones with the wrong bit.
They come in different temp ratings on the ones without a thermistor in
the heater.
They have an alloy with different curie points to control the heater.



The only irons I know of which use the Curie point principle for temperature
control, are the Weller Magnastat types, which although common in the repair
workplace, are by no means universal. There are many many other 'general
purpose' irons in use in service workshops throughout the country, which
have no means of temperature control at all, other than the designed rate at
which the element can put heat into the tip, and the rate at which that heat
'leaks away' ...

It is those 'fixed temperature' types (which are of course nothing of the
sort) which I guess are being referred to, and are generally unsuitable for
lead-free work.

Arfa

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot
enough easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.

The ones with the wrong bit. They come in different temp ratings on the
ones without a thermistor in the heater. They have an alloy with
different curie points to control the heater.

Not a common DIY tool I'd guess - more for a production line. I've never
seen one despite having been in many a repair workshop.

Obviously if you have an RF rework station or similar (a few hundred
quid) you can set the temp within a degree or two and as they have
variable output upto a couple of hundred watts they work well with big
and small stuff.

Temperature controlled stations - low voltage with a 50 watt iron - can be
bought for about 30 quid these days. Ideal for DIY.

--
*Women like silent men; they think they're listening.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
DM wrote:
A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot
enough easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.


Fixed temp irons are common in industrial workspaces so that the
technicians cannot arse up the process too much by selecting the wrong
working temp for the task.

Indeed - so not much relevance to DIY.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Arfa Daily wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

All the electronic boards at Marconi were lead free solder as were all the
repairs.
You will find that everyone has or will move to lead free solder for
electronics as the tin/lead solder stops being made.

It can be a bugger to work with if you try and use an old iron as they
don't get hot enough (at least the decent temperature controlled ones
didn't).

Anyone still using tin/lead for electronic repairs will get a shock if
they buy some new lead free solder and expect it to work the same way.

Thanks for the post.
I recently bought a replacement soldering iron kit and failed miserably
to get any joint to stick. This is fixing old valve radios. I thought
I'd lost the skill but I tried some old multicore solder I'd kept from
30 years ago and everything worked fine again.

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to f2s in email.

In article ,
Another Dave wrote:
I recently bought a replacement soldering iron kit and failed miserably
to get any joint to stick. This is fixing old valve radios. I thought
I'd lost the skill but I tried some old multicore solder I'd kept from
30 years ago and everything worked fine again.

Valve radios are likely to need a beefy iron due to the components being
somewhat larger than today with more of a 'heatsink' effect. For example
an old resistor to tag strip will need a lot more heat than a new
miniature one to a PCB.
But it's nothing a reasonable 50 watt temperature controlled station
couldn't cope with. Loads on Ebay starting at under 20 quid.

A 15 watt electronics iron might cope if you fit a larger tip and give it
time to heat up - remove from the stand if a metal type which will conduct
away some heat.

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
Not a common DIY tool I'd guess - more for a production line. I've never
seen one despite having been in many a repair workshop.
You've never seen a Weller iron? I'd swear by them, I've used W60D and
TCP irons for over 20 years now and they're excellent


--
Clint Sharp

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:55:36 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Worth mentioning pipe cleaning brushes for the inside of fittings.

I guess it depends how long you keep your fittings, I've never had a
problem but then most fittings I use are still bright and shiny from
manufacture...

I do it with new or old fittings just to be sure.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot
enough easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.

The ones with the wrong bit. They come in different temp ratings on the
ones without a thermistor in the heater. They have an alloy with
different curie points to control the heater.

Not a common DIY tool I'd guess - more for a production line. I've never
seen one despite having been in many a repair workshop.

You probably have, they look like
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...ct&R=051626 8
and come with a transformer base to give the 24V power.


Obviously if you have an RF rework station or similar (a few hundred
quid) you can set the temp within a degree or two and as they have
variable output upto a couple of hundred watts they work well with big
and small stuff.

Temperature controlled stations - low voltage with a 50 watt iron - can be
bought for about 30 quid these days. Ideal for DIY.

They aren't even slightly comparable, you should try one if you get the
chance.
They can deliver a huge amount of power to even a fine tip if needed,
without overheating it.

I suppose its the soldering equivalent of a microwave oven.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot
enough easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.

The ones with the wrong bit. They come in different temp ratings on
the ones without a thermistor in the heater. They have an alloy with
different curie points to control the heater.

Not a common DIY tool I'd guess - more for a production line. I've
never seen one despite having been in many a repair workshop.

You probably have, they look like
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...ct&R=051626 8
and come with a transformer base to give the 24V power.

But as I said I can't see the purpose of one apart from on a production
line - used by semi-skilled personnel. A repair operation will always want
the option of altering the temperature.


Obviously if you have an RF rework station or similar (a few hundred
quid) you can set the temp within a degree or two and as they have
variable output upto a couple of hundred watts they work well with big
and small stuff.

Temperature controlled stations - low voltage with a 50 watt iron -
can be bought for about 30 quid these days. Ideal for DIY.

They aren't even slightly comparable, you should try one if you get the
chance. They can deliver a huge amount of power to even a fine tip if
needed, without overheating it.

Does it used some form of special element?

I suppose its the soldering equivalent of a microwave oven.

So it doesn't use a heating element?

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
A fixed temperature iron? Pretty rare. My solder station goes hot
enough easily. Dunno of one which doesn't.

The ones with the wrong bit. They come in different temp ratings on
the ones without a thermistor in the heater. They have an alloy with
different curie points to control the heater.

Not a common DIY tool I'd guess - more for a production line. I've
never seen one despite having been in many a repair workshop.

You probably have, they look like
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...ct&R=051626 8
and come with a transformer base to give the 24V power.

But as I said I can't see the purpose of one apart from on a production
line - used by semi-skilled personnel. A repair operation will always want
the option of altering the temperature.

What you do is choose the bits to suit the work and when you fit one it sets
the optimum temp.

8

They aren't even slightly comparable, you should try one if you get the
chance. They can deliver a huge amount of power to even a fine tip if
needed, without overheating it.

Does it used some form of special element?

I suppose its the soldering equivalent of a microwave oven.

So it doesn't use a heating element?

No they use a wave guide and radio power (or at least that's how I think
they work).

In article ,
says...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:



You probably have, they look like
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...ct&R=051626 8
and come with a transformer base to give the 24V power.

But as I said I can't see the purpose of one apart from on a production
line - used by semi-skilled personnel. A repair operation will always want
the option of altering the temperature.


Obviously if you have an RF rework station or similar (a few hundred
quid) you can set the temp within a degree or two and as they have
variable output upto a couple of hundred watts they work well with big
and small stuff.

Temperature controlled stations - low voltage with a 50 watt iron -
can be bought for about 30 quid these days. Ideal for DIY.

They aren't even slightly comparable, you should try one if you get the
chance. They can deliver a huge amount of power to even a fine tip if
needed, without overheating it.

Does it used some form of special element?

My Weller TCP1 doesn't. It has a standard, replaceable resistive element
inside the tube. Inside this is a soft-iron plunger that is attracted to
a magnet on the end of the replaceable tip. The other end of the plunger
is a microswitch that switches on the power when the magnet is stuck to
the bit. When the bit heats up, the curie point is reached and a spring
pulls off the plunger opening the microswitch. The bits have different
numbers (degrees F/100, apparently...) on the end defining the
temperature range of the curie point.

If the microswitch fails, the tip quickly reaches red heat...

The bits are more than just plain copper, being plated. They seem to
last forever, providing they are kept clean using the wet sponge on the
transformer/holder. Like anyone who has ever used a Weller TCP, I
wouldn't be without mine - it's in my toolbox.

--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

In article , John Weston
wrote:
The bits are more than just plain copper, being plated. They seem to
last forever, providing they are kept clean using the wet sponge on the
transformer/holder. Like anyone who has ever used a Weller TCP, I
wouldn't be without mine - it's in my toolbox.

My first electronics iron as a lad was a Solon 25watt - which I still have
kicking around somewhere. But it was too big for some stuff so I got an
Antex. And have stuck to them since. My present set is home made - two
Antex 50 watt with individual control and a desolder unit using a Pace
handset.

--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Clint Sharp writes:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
Not a common DIY tool I'd guess - more for a production line. I've never
seen one despite having been in many a repair workshop.
You've never seen a Weller iron? I'd swear by them, I've used W60D and
TCP irons for over 20 years now and they're excellent

Come to think of it, my Weller TCP is almost 30 years old now.
I bought it when I was a student, and it was really expensive
then. It's done lots of service since then.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"John Weston" wrote in message
.. .


The bits are more than just plain copper, being plated. They seem to
last forever, providing they are kept clean using the wet sponge on the
transformer/holder. Like anyone who has ever used a Weller TCP, I
wouldn't be without mine - it's in my toolbox.

Mines about 20 years old, I may buy a new one, if it breaks.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"John Weston" wrote in message
.. .


The bits are more than just plain copper, being plated. They seem to
last forever, providing they are kept clean using the wet sponge on the
transformer/holder. Like anyone who has ever used a Weller TCP, I
wouldn't be without mine - it's in my toolbox.

Mines about 20 years old, I may buy a new one, if it breaks.




You may struggle as I think that Cooper might be phasing out the Magnastat
controlled irons for electronically controlled ones. Last time I tried to
get any parts for my Magnastat iron-based DS900 desoldering station, no one
had any stock of the desoldering head set, which contains the Curie point
magnet for temperature control. When I took this up with the Cooper Tools
rep, he said it was because they were no longer manufacturing parts for this
station. I finished up having to replace the station with a Pace from eBay,
which really galled me, as otherwise, the DS900 was in pristine condition
and had been a good reliable workhorse over many years of commercial use.
May be just the desoldering side of things, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Arfa

In article ,
says...


You may struggle as I think that Cooper might be phasing out the Magnastat
controlled irons for electronically controlled ones. Last time I tried to
get any parts for my Magnastat iron-based DS900 desoldering station, no one
had any stock of the desoldering head set, which contains the Curie point
magnet for temperature control. When I took this up with the Cooper Tools
rep, he said it was because they were no longer manufacturing parts for this
station. I finished up having to replace the station with a Pace from eBay,
which really galled me, as otherwise, the DS900 was in pristine condition
and had been a good reliable workhorse over many years of commercial use.
May be just the desoldering side of things, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Arfa


I have a set of IC desoldering heads somewhere but found them not very
good for casual component replacement, compared with solder wick. For
production, where you could put a spring puller on the chip. they were
much quicker.

I must find where I've put my spares for my 40 year old Weller, just in
case I ever need them :-)

--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 08:30:56 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"John Weston" wrote in message
. ..


The bits are more than just plain copper, being plated. They seem to
last forever, providing they are kept clean using the wet sponge on the
transformer/holder. Like anyone who has ever used a Weller TCP, I
wouldn't be without mine - it's in my toolbox.

Mines about 20 years old, I may buy a new one, if it breaks.

Mines about 30 years old but it's had a new element, new switch, new
cable, and new handle over the years. Still got the same ceramic
scruits though

"John Weston" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
says...


You may struggle as I think that Cooper might be phasing out the
Magnastat
controlled irons for electronically controlled ones. Last time I tried to
get any parts for my Magnastat iron-based DS900 desoldering station, no
one
had any stock of the desoldering head set, which contains the Curie point
magnet for temperature control. When I took this up with the Cooper Tools
rep, he said it was because they were no longer manufacturing parts for
this
station. I finished up having to replace the station with a Pace from
eBay,
which really galled me, as otherwise, the DS900 was in pristine condition
and had been a good reliable workhorse over many years of commercial use.
May be just the desoldering side of things, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Arfa


I have a set of IC desoldering heads somewhere but found them not very
good for casual component replacement, compared with solder wick. For
production, where you could put a spring puller on the chip. they were
much quicker.

I must find where I've put my spares for my 40 year old Weller, just in
case I ever need them :-)

--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

The DS900 is a single hole vacuum desoldering station with a footswitch
operated vacuum pump in the base unit. The desoldering head set is a
specially shaped Magnastat collar with the solder collection tube and vacuum
attachment point built in. Instead of a hole in the end of the collar that
the bit normally pokes through, the attachment point for the desodering bit
pokes through there, with the magnetic slug / heat coupling rod inside.
Thus, if anything happens to the slug / head / magnet, you are up for a
whole new assembly. In my case, the slug seized into the element tube, and
sheared off when I had to apply brute force. I had had it happen once
before. A new head was only about 40 quid or so, so with a new element, 60
quid would have seen it back in service. It was a £700 unit new, and is now
little more than scrap, because Cooper won't continue to make parts for it.
I could have got a replacement on eBay, but I was thinking that I might go
down that route, only to find that in 3 months' time, the UNF threaded tips
are no longer available ...

Arfa

In message , Alang
writes
Mines about 30 years old but it's had a new element, new switch, new
cable, and new handle over the years. Still got the same ceramic
scruits though
Ahh, trigger's brush. I've actually got 3 W60s and a desktop station
which was kindly donated to me, they're all very good, apart from the
occasional tip and a few magnastats they're all original. Very well made
tools and very hardy. Must have earned me a couple of hundred thousand
quid over the years so I'd definitely replace them if I ever need to.
--
Clint Sharp

On 5 Sep, 01:01, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article , John Weston

wrote:
The bits are more than just plain copper, being plated. They seem to
last forever, providing they are kept clean using the wet sponge on the
transformer/holder. Like anyone who has ever used a Weller TCP, I
wouldn't be without mine - it's in my toolbox.

My first electronics iron as a lad was a Solon 25watt - which I still have
kicking around somewhere. But it was too big for some stuff so I got an
Antex. And have stuck to them since. My present set is home made - two
Antex 50 watt with individual control and a desolder unit using a Pace
handset.

--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Use an Antex TCS personally, temp controlled with no base station
makes it transportable.

Might be worth pointing out that a new tip should be tinned as it
heats , not after its hot.....

Multicore tip tinner cleaner is an excellent product,great for
cleaning tips that should have been tinned before they got hot, not
fond of their solder in general otherwise though.

Adam

P.S. thanks for the timber FAQ helped save me from looking a total
plonk down at timber merchants recently.

In article
,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
Use an Antex TCS personally, temp controlled with no base station
makes it transportable.

I've got a cordless iron for use outside the workshop. And a gas one. But
if you have mains a base station isn't that much more effort to transport
than an iron plus stand.

Might be worth pointing out that a new tip should be tinned as it
heats , not after its hot.....

Sounds like it's getting too hot.

Multicore tip tinner cleaner is an excellent product,great for
cleaning tips that should have been tinned before they got hot, not
fond of their solder in general otherwise though.

At the right temperature a wipe on a damp sponge followed by tinning with
your usual multicore should be ok.

Adam

P.S. thanks for the timber FAQ helped save me from looking a total
plonk down at timber merchants recently.

I always feel uncomfortable in a timber merchants. And they usually give
me their rubbish too - first time around.

--
*When did my wild oats turn to prunes and all bran?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.